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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Topic started by: J17 on Friday 04 May 12 22:19 BST (UK)
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Hi everyone
I am new to this so please forgive me if my request is inapropriate.
I am trying to trace my maternal ancestry, though I have only limited details to begin with.
My grandfather was named Arthur W Baston, b abt 1886 in Letterkenny Ireland - d 1959 Wrexham N.Wales.
Arthur served in The South Wales Borders and later in The Royal Welsh Regiments.
My Grandmother was named Annie I Holden, b abt 1894 in Dublin (I think), d 1983 Wrexham N.Wales.
I know that Annie had a sister named Bridget and another sister who took holy orders and became a nun.
That I'm afraid is the only info I have of them before they came to live in Wales.
If anyone can assist wth any further information I would be most grateful.
Thanks!
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Do you have any idea where or when Arthur and Annie married ?
A marriage cert would usually show details of their fathers etc which should help your search...
Shane
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a possible birth from Arthur from the BMD Index :
Name: Arthur William Masson Baston
Registration district: Letterkenny
Event type: Birth
Quarter and year: Apr - Jun 1886
Volume: 2 / Page: 155
see : Introduction to Irish Records (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,442233.0.html)
Ordering Certs from GRO Roscommon (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,433040.0.html)
Details included on a Birth Cert (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,433041.0.html)
Shane
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Welcome to Rootschat. Likely birth registration for your grandfather:
Arthur William Masson BASTON Apr./June 1886 Letterkenny Registration District, volume 2 page 155.
SNAP!
Can't see him in Ireland in 1901 and 1911 at the moment.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search/
Added- 1901 Arthur is in England (see www.familysearch.org) and birthplace given as "Belly Kenny, Co. Donegal" which is possibly Letterkenny.
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possible marriage cross-match in North Dublin City :
Name: Annie Holden
Registration district: Dublin North
Event type: Marriage
Quarter and year: Oct - Dec 1912
Volume : 2 / Page: 505
same references for an Arthur Baston
Shane
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Hi
Thank you for your speedy response.
Sadly I have no further info, other than Annie was catholic and Arthur was not. This I'm afraid caused such difficulties, that Arthurs family would have no further contact with him.
Thanks
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Possible relative?
Edward John Masson Baston (late Colour-Serjeant of this Regiment) to be Quarter- I
master, with the honorary rank of Lieutenant. 1st November, 1914. Under 1th (Merioneth & Montgomery) Battalion, Royal Welsh Fusiliers.
http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/28972/supplements/9247/page.pdf
Not sure if this is same person but the name is the same- see here (http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/IGI/individual_record.asp?recid=100430301035&lds=1®ion=1®ionfriendly=Asia&frompage=99)
Interesting article in Australian newspaper- Edward Mason Baston, clerk in holy orders:
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/44212264
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if that marriage is correct, and Annie was in Dublin in 1911... then two possible matches for her on the 1911 census -
both RC.
1. Anne Holden (http://census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Arran_Quay/St__Joseph_s_Place/49391/) a servant age 19 (c1892), relative of a Byrne family living at St. Joseph's Place
2. Annie Holden (http://census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Donabate/Portraine_Demesne/5873/) age 20 (c1891), a mental nurse living in Portraine [Portrane]
Shane
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here's Annie 1 (the servant ) on the 1901 return with her family - including a sister named Bridget...
Holden household, Allagour townland, Tallaght, Co. Dublin (http://census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Tallagh/Allagour/1312138/)
S.
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correction - the nurse I mentioned is not Catholic - her religion is listed as I.C.on the census = Irish Church or Church of Ireland
S.
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Thanks for all your efforts, I'm amazed!
Annie was most deffinately catholic.
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the same Holden family in 1911 - moved slightly, but in the same area of South Co. Dublin :
Holden / McCabe household, Ballinascorney Lwr townland (http://census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Tallagh/Ballinascorney__Lower/85746/)
Shane
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I wonder if Arthur and Annie moved to the Wrexham area soon after their marriage - there are a number Baston births (about 10) listed on FreeBMD from 1915 onwards with mother's maiden name Holden
see : http://www.freebmd.org.uk/
Shane
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Yes, they did. Annie and Arthur had thirteen children, one of whom died before his first birthday. My mother is one of only two remaining children. I know that Annie was married young and most of her children (if not all), were born in Wrexham N.Wales
Although I have some details of most of the siblings, one named Sidney Baston remains a mystery. Sidney left home in Wrexham when he was only sixteen. He joined the merchant navy and all but disapeared from any records.
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I think that marriage cert mentioned earlier is definitely worth checking out - looks very promising and should help to start your search for Arthur and Annie's families... and hopefully confirm that Holden family in South County Dublin...
Shane
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Many thanks
J17
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There's also a possible 1st child born in Dublin .. an Edward Baston in 1913 (https://www.familysearch.org/search/records/index#count=20&query=%2Bgivenname%3Aedward~%20%2Bsurname%3Abaston~%20%2Bbirth_place%3A%22Dublin%20North%22%20%2Bbirth_year%3A1912-1915~&collection_id=1408347)
see : Ordering Certs from GRO Roscommon (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,599538.0.html)
Details included on a Birth Cert (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,433041.0.html)
Shane
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Mum always said that her brother Teddy was born in Ireland, so this may be a connection
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Hi
I now have what I believe to be a copy of Arthur and Annie's marriage certificate.
It records Arthur's occupation as - soldier, R.W.F and his address as Royal Barracks. The certificate also records Arthur's fathers name as Edward.
(Arthur came from a military family and I believe that at one time, he was Bat-Man to his own nephew).
The certificate records Annie's fathers name as William, (a Caretaker) and her address as 18 Prussia St. This particular fact is unexpected, as Annie told her children that she was brought up on a small holding, in/near Dublin.
I am still searching but have unfortunately been unable to move forward with my search - any info would be much appreciated.
Regards
Ann
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The addresses on a marriage certs are where the bride and groom were living at the time of marriage. May not be where they were born or brought up..
In a 1914 directory number 18 Prussia St. is listed as a Miss Mary Cossford, dressmaker.
Now that you have details of their father you could progress to searches for the births of Annie and Arthur. A probable record for his birth is posted in reply#2 (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,596127.msg4462551.html#msg4462551)
I'll check for possible births for Annie..
Shane
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Many thanks
Ann
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likely birth for Annie :
name: Anne Holden
registration district: Dublin South
event type: Birth
Quarter and year: Jan-Mar 1892
Volume: 2 / page: 594
The district fits with the area the family appear on the census returns.
Shane
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Hi Shane
As a result of your recent advice, I now have the birth certificates of Annie Holden and Arthur William Masson Baston.
I am a little confused re: the Masson name, as this was not previously known to our family. Having said that, other details in the document appear to be correct, including the fact that there was a significant difference in the social standing of both my grand parents families.
Is ther any way of me confirming that this particular Arthur Baston was indeed my grand father?
Regards
Ann
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.....
Is ther any way of me confirming that this particular Arthur Baston was indeed my grand father?
...
does the name and occupation for Arthur's father match on the marriage and birth certs for him ?
Shane
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The marriage certificate records name and occupation as - Edward Baston, Retired Employee Government.
Birth certificate records - Edward Baston, Clergyman, (his mothers maiden name Masson).
We know he came from a military family and he was connected with the church.
Ann
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Hi Ann
Just going back to the Sidney Baston that ran away and joined the Merchant Navy. If you want to find out more on him, Merchant Navy records up to 1941 are held at Southampton Council archives
http://www.southampton.gov.uk/s-leisure/artsheritage/history/maritimehistory/centralindex.aspx
and after 1941 are at the National Archives, Kew.
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/research-guides/merchant-seamen-sea-service-1913-1972.htm
Findmypast has a searchable database up to 1941, and I don't see him there so likely he was still serving post 1941 and the NA will have them. They will contain information on the names and dates for ships he sailed on etc. but the really good thing about them is that the CR10 card will have a very good quality picture of him, taken when he joined up.
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Hi
On Find my Past there is a service record for an Edward John Baston, born India to a Rev Edward Baston. He left the RWF as a Colour Sgt. in 1912 in Wrexham, wife Florence Ethel Baston - looks like your mans father.
The record also includes his death certificate as Edward John Masson Baston 1941.
I have just looked on Ancestry and there is a surviving WW1 Service Record for his brother Herbert N M Baston, also born in India, to Rev. E and Isabella Baston. He is shown in the RWF entitled to the 1900 China Medal with clasp for Relief of Pekin.
This is from FIBIS (well worth a further look):
Nov 15th (1871) at St John's Church Nynee Tal by the Rev J Richards MA Edward Baston Head Master Diocesan Schools Nynee Tal to Isabella CS McD Masson only daughter of the late J McD Masson Esq Bengal Civil Service
Martin
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Hi
Until recently, I had no knowledge of another Baston family in the Wrexham area. I know Arthur served in the RWF and at one time was Batman to his own nephew.
Mum remembers Arthur had a sister Mabel, (married name Phillips). I have found a record of Mabel Phillips in the 1911 census records, living in Plymouth. Also included on this form is the name of Isabella Baston - mother - age 62.
Many years ago, I know my mothers brother Edward visited relatives in Plymouith, though due to past history, he was not welcomed and no further contact was ever made.
Yesterday, I received copies of documents from the National Archives re: Sidney Baston. I now have a record of ships he sailed on up until his discharge in 1944. I also have an address in Barry, S/Wales where he was discharged to. Sadly, no photograph was included in the info but I will make a further request. I have begun to search for further info.
Thanks
Ann
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Ann
On reflection Edward John is more likely to be Arthur's brother being born in 1871 :-[
However, I did find the following on the Malta Family History website, which may help you create a fuller family tree:
Herbert Nelson BASTON, aged 23 years, bachelor, Lance-Sergeant, Royal Welch Fusiliers, the son of Edward Baston, Clerk in Holy Orders, married 22nd February 1897 to, Annie GREGORY, aged 20 years, spinster, the daughter of Frederick Gregory, Bandmaster, Royal Welch Fusiliers
This might also be of interest, found in the India Office Records:
Plymouth Constabulary; forwards information on Rev Edward Massen Baston charged with obtaining money, food and lodging by false pretences IOR/L/PJ/6/472, File 319 15 Feb 1898
Martin
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Hi Martin
This is interesting, especially as my grand father Arthur was also a Bandsman in the RWF.
Many thanks
Ann
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What a pity you didn't get the photo - (did you get the pink CR10 ?) Could be that it never got moved over in 1941 and is still at Southampton.
Do you have access to the military records for Edward John and Herbert Baston posted by crimea1854 ?
I can't access the one for Edward John, but the one for Herbert states
Father: Rev E Baston
Mother: Isabella
Brothers: Edward, James, Arthur
Sisters: Mabel (+ may be 1 other but can't make out the word)
Parents address: 27 Anson Place, St Judes, Plymouth.
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Hi
I received a C.R.S.2 R.S.3, plus a Summary of service but no CR10 for Sidney.
I do not have access to the military records, so am unable to chase this up at the present.
Thanks
Ann
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Find my past has a credit system so you can just pay for the record you want (though it is fairly expensive) Ancestry has a free trial - full access for 14 days.
You just need to remember to cancel it (which is very simple to do) Though I warn you that by the time the 14 days were up I was thoroughly addicted to it and have kept it on ever since !!
This military family (Edward, Herbert etc)
seem very strongly to be Arthur's family, but one question - Do you know where Arthur actually grew up ?
Also someone is working on the Edward John Baston line here. Father is down as Robert which is wrong - but it does say it is a work in progress !
http://thepeerage.com/p53295.htm
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Thanks, I will indeed try the 14 days free trial!
Mum believed her father (Arthur), came from Letterkenny in Ireland. However, his accent was rather upper class English, a contrast to my grandmothers which was very much a Dublin accent.
Mum also remembers that Arthur's sister Mabel was a keen horse woman and continued to ride until she was quite elderly.
Ann
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Going back to Annie Holden, here are the baptisms of herself and her siblings, going from that 1901 census record. Not much detail in them but does give you a surname for Annie's mother which appears to be Cunningham/Conyngham
Holden Baptisms (http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/search.jsp?name2fm=&name2l=&namefm=william&namel=holden&location=&dd=&mm=&yy=&submit=Search&sort=&pageSize=100&diocese=DUBLIN+%28RC%29&parish=BOHERNABREENA¢ury=&decade=&exact=&ddB=&ddM=&ddD=&mmB=&mmM=&mmD=&yyB=&yyM=&yyD=&locationB=&locationM=&locationD=&member0=&member1=&member2=&member3=&member4=&member5=&member6=&member7=&member8=&member9=&namef0=&namef1=&namef2=&namef3=&namef4=&namef5=&namef6=&namef7=&namef8=&namef9=&namel0=&namel1=&namel2=&namel3=&namel4=&namel5=&namel6=&namel7=&namel8=&namel9=&keyword=)
also from
Irish Times 20th July 1886
The Church in Ireland.
"The Rev Edward Baston senior curate of Conwal, Letterkenny, Diocese of Raphoe who was unanimously elected by The Board of Nomination, has been instituted incumbent of the parish of Castledawson Diocese of Derry, in succession to the Rev H.G Warren appointed to the incumbency of Dungiven"
Irish Times 19th April 1890.
Life in Burma
"Lecture in The Coffee House Hotel on Monday evening, by the Rev Edward Baston who spent 20 years in the East. The chair will be taken by Paul Aston Esq. JP and during the evening a musical programme will be given. Admission 1d. Front seats 2d."
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Thank you so very much for your efforts on my behalf.
I am attaching what I believe to be is my grandmothers birth cert, (Annie Holden). I couldnt quite make out her surname. Please could you have a look and if possible advise me of the correct spelling/name.
Is it at all possible that the original spelling of the name was recorded in error? Also, her fathers name was William.
Regards
Ann
Moderator Note - Image cropped, full Certs are not permitted.
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Hi
That sure looks like CUNION to me, not a name I have ever come across.
I just plumped for Cunningham/Conyngham as the last two baptisms on the list were very close to that.
Normally, I would believe a civil cert over a baptism record as the spellings on them tends to be fairly haphazard. I just had a look at RootsIeland and it only has 7 births/baptisms and 5 marriages for CUNION, so while you can say it does exist as a name it is very rare and probably a variant of Cunningham or Conyngham or other.
I also notice the column on the right, is that the informants column ? If so then Anne the mother is illiterate as she has placed her X. So probably Anne herself would not have known if her name had been spelled correctly.
Probably at this stage it's best to keep all variants under consideration if you are looking for their marriage.
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Hi
I have Annie's and Arthur's wedding cert, (I hope !) and it has the name Anastasia Holden recorded as a witness to the ceremony. Annie had one sister affectionately known to my mother as aunty "Nat". I know one of Annie's sisters became a nun but not sure of her name. Is it possible the pet name "Nat" could
refer to Anastasia?
Ann
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Hi Ann
Really there's no way of anyone knowing if Anastasia was also known to family as 'Nat'. It does sound quite plausible though.
I had a great aunt Anastasia and she was always known as Stasia, but each family to their own.
What we do know from the census records that ShaneW posted is that in 1911 they say they have had 9 children born and 7 living.
The baptism records for Bohernabreena record 6 births. Of those it looks likely that neither of the Williams (born 1884 and 1895) survived to 1901. In 1911 they also have James (age 4) so that gives 5 of the 7 children that lived to 1911, which means 2 are missing.
On the 1901 census both William and Anne say they were born in Co. Wicklow. So a search on http://www.rootsireland.ie/ shows a marriage between a William Holden and Anne Cuniam in 1878. (you can find that much out by trial an error - to buy the full record, which is a transcription of the register will cost €2.50 I think) but it looks very promising.
Regarding the birth of Anastasia Holden - and keeping the Wicklow theme in mind the best match for her birth I can find is
Name: Anastasia Holden
Date : Apr-May-Jun 1881
Registration district: Rathdrum
Birth Country: Ireland
Volume: 2
Page: 963
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Many thanks
Ann
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Ann
On reflection Edward John is more likely to be Arthur's brother being born in 1871 :-[
However, I did find the following on the Malta Family History website, which may help you create a fuller family tree:
Herbert Nelson BASTON, aged 23 years, bachelor, Lance-Sergeant, Royal Welch Fusiliers, the son of Edward Baston, Clerk in Holy Orders, married 22nd February 1897 to, Annie GREGORY, aged 20 years, spinster, the daughter of Frederick Gregory, Bandmaster, Royal Welch Fusiliers
This might also be of interest, found in the India Office Records:
Plymouth Constabulary; forwards information on Rev Edward Massen Baston charged with obtaining money, food and lodging by false pretences IOR/L/PJ/6/472, File 319 15 Feb 1898
Martin
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Hi,
I too am doing my Ancestry, and am very interested in what you say.
My grandfather was Herbert Nelson Masson Baston. His first wife was Annie Gregory who he married in India in 1897. She then died aged 32 in India having birth to 5 children. 4 of whom survived. He then went on to marry my grandmother Violet Baston who was Annie's sister, then giving birth to Violet, Winifred, and my mother Margaret.
I have more info about him, but will leave that for now.
Christine Kennedt
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Annie was my Great Grandmother, I am Gwendoline and Elwyn's Grandson.
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I can't pm at the moment
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Have to send three messages first?