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Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: Cramond Brig on Tuesday 08 May 12 15:49 BST (UK)
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Another New Zealander who apparently came to Scotland in WW1 to enlist. This is all I know about him. I wondered if his mother's name might not be Powrie rather than Pourie, which might indicate Scottish Connection.
Major David Mitchell Tomlinson, Royal Scots, Mentioned in Despatches, born 1879, died 13/05/1916, age 38, was the son of Thomas Tomlinson, and Annie Pourie Tomlinson, of “Ngroma”, Fendalton Road, Christchurch, New Zealand. He graduated BSc (Eng) at Otago University in 1904.
I have his Medal Card, but the first line is a bit of a mystery and may indicate where his military career started.
All help much appreciated.
Alistair
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annies middle name seems to be spelt differently with every child
NZ BMD Births
1880/15870 Tomlinson Annie Powrie Annie Powrie Thomas -
1879/3333 Tomlinson David Mitchell Annie Pourie Thomas -
1877/11852 Tomlinson Thomas Sherwood Annie Burie Thomas -
1875/12707 Tomlinson William Fisher Annie Pourie Thomas -
1882/16889 Tomlinson Charles Edward Annie Powrie Thomas -
1885/13246 Tomlinson Harold Bruce Annie Pourie Thomas -
Bye
Althea
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Out of interest
His name appears on a Dunedin memorial arch
http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/media/photo/high-street-school-war-memorial
Bye
althea
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Seems the following might be the (New Zealand) marriage of David's parents ?
Annie FISHER - Thomas TOMLINSON -- 1872
[The marriage index listing doesn't record a second christian name (Pourie / Powrie) for Annie. The child William Fisher TOMLINSON b. 1875, has been blessed with his mother's maiden name though. ]
~ Lu
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Parents wedding notice
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&cl=search&d=ODT18720617.2.8&srpos=1&e=-------10--1-byDA-on--0pourie+tomlinson--
Annie Pourie Fisher daughter of William
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Hi Alistair
A headstone at the Southern Cemetery, Dunedin, for a William FISHER - died February 1874 - includes a tribute to a "Margaret Pourie" who appears to have been his wife and the mother of a child named William FISHER d. 1882.
[William FISHER d. 1874, engineer, born Scotland, years in NZ 17 years. ]
You can view headstone photos at >
http://www.dunedin.govt.nz/facilities/cemeteries/cemeteries_search
~ Lu
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Annie baptism
Name: Ann Powrie Fisher
Gender: Female
Baptism/Christening Date: 01 Jun 1845
Baptism/Christening Place: SAINT CUTHBERTS, EDINBURGH, MIDLOTHIAN, SCOTLAND
Birth Date: 11 May 1845
Birthplace:
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name: William Fisher
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Margaret Powrie
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C11988-9
System Origin: Scotland-VR
Source Film Number: 1066762
Reference Number: 2:18LZL0J
at LDS
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In 1897 Thomas Tomlinson married Rhoda Faulding Tomlinson.
ER shows them at 150 Fendalton Road 1911 to 1919 at least.
He is a Drainage Board Inspector.
I would guess the correct spelling of house name would be "Ngaroma"
John B
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On Davids intestate letters he is a mining engineer
http://archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=22063098
New Zealander has an offer for lookups at Dunedin, so may pay to see if there is anything more about him
title years
TOMLINSON David Mitchell - Dunedin - Mining Engineer 1916 - 1916
agency series accession box / item sep record no. part alternative no.
DAAC 9075 D239 348 / 3827
Bye
Althea
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In 1897 Thomas Tomlinson married Rhoda Faulding Tomlinson.
ER shows them at 150 Fendalton Road 1911 to 1919 at least.
He is a Drainage Board Inspector.
I would guess the correct spelling of house name would be "Ngaroma"
John B
Hi John
It looks as if the above Thomas TOMLINSON (m. Rhoda ) is someone else. ???
Annie Pourie TOMLINSON (bc 1845) died in 1927. (I don't see a record of her having divorced Thomas TOMLINSON) ?
~ Lu
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1905-06 - Riccarton (Christchurch) Roll
TOMLINSON - Thomas - drainage inspector
TOMLINSON - Rhoda Falding - married ... both at Glendovy Rd
1905-06 - Dunedin South
TOMLINSON - Thomas - coal merchant
TOMLINSON - Annie Pourie - married
... and children, Charles Edward, engineer /Annie Pourie, spinster ... all at 133 High Street
1911 - Dunedin Central
TOMLINSON - Thomas - coal merchant ... with Annie Pourie (1x married) and (1 x spinster) and Thomas Sherwood TOMLINSON, clerk ... all at 17 william Street.
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Everyone
What a wonderful response. You have been so helpful - and that produces the Scottish connection that I suspected would be lurking in the background.
There must have been something in the genes to make these lads come all the way to Scotland.
Alistair
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Hi Lu,
Thanks for pointing that out -
BUT Mrs Tomlinson's address on card shown in original post is Fendalton Rd, Christchurch ??? ::)
John B
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and just to make things more complicated ;D :o 8)
Their marriage is shown at BDM as
1897/3682 Rhoda Pickering Tomlinson Thomas Tomlinson
So the bride's surname was also Tomlinson,
and her second name is shown as Faulding (not Pickering) on Marriages CD and ER. ???
John B
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BUT Mrs Tomlinson's address on card shown in original post is Fendalton Rd, Christchurch ??? ::)
John B
Jeepers, John B. .... mmm .... I see what you mean .... the TOMLINSON / Fendalton Road connection is surely not merely a co-incidence. ;D
And on checking the e/rolls a little further back, I found this.
1896 - Otago - Dunedin
TOMLINSON (the only ones of that name listed)
- Annie Pourie - Dunedin - Houskeeper -- residential
- Rhoda Faulding - Dunedin - Teacher -- residential
- Thomas - Dunedin - coal merchant - Freehold, section 35, block 2
----------------------------------------
I get the feeling now that this Rhoda, was maybe the first-born of Annie Pourie FISHER and Thomas TOMLINSON ?
BUT ...
- can't see a birth reg. for her online
- can't find a reason why she is listed as "Pickering"
- and have no idea, who Thomas TOMLINSON (the drainage inspector) was ?
:D see next >
~ Lu
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Rhoda Faulding TOMLINSON - 24 (bc 1873)
Thomas TOMLINSON - 34
Married : 27 February 1897
First Church (Prebyterian), Dunedin
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[Annie Pourie TOMLINSON (the younger) m. aged 32 to Andrew HAMILTON at the same church in 1913. ]
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Annie Pourie FISHER - 27 yrs m. Thomas TOMLINSON (43)
on 14 June 1872 at St. Andrew's (Presbyterian) Church, Dunedin.
___________________________
I guess it's possible then that at the time of David's enlistment (1916) that his mother, Annie Pourie TOMLINSON, was in Christchurch, sharing accommodation at Fendalton Road, with Rhoda and her husband (the other Thomas TOMLINSON). ? ;D
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Rhoda Faulding is still in Fendalton Rd on ER for 1949, then dies 1950
1950/27944 Tomlinson Rhoda Faulding 78Y (bc 1872 )
Thomas is with her until 1938, then possibly this death ???
1938/24824 Tomlinson Thomas 76Y (bc 1862)
John B
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I found an entry about David's will and it indicates that the probate was carried out by Thomas Sherwood Tomlinson, Accountant, after the War.
Alistair
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[ ;) Just to solve the mystery of Rhoda Faulding TOMLINSON ...
yes, she was the eldest d/o Thomas TOMLINSON of Dunedin, (and therefore a sister to David Mitchell TOMLINSON).
Marriage notice at >
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz
"Otago Witness" - 6 May 1897
... her husband, Thomas TOMLINSON, was the youngest s/o the late Thomas TOMLINSON of Sancroft Grange, Northamptonshire, ENG. ]
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I found an entry about David's will and it indicates that the probate was carried out by Thomas Sherwood Tomlinson, Accountant, after the War.
Alistair
Hi again Alistair
David certainly came from a family of high achievers. :)
His siblings Annie Pourie (b. 1880) and Harold Bruce (b. 1885) were also graduates of Otago University.
Brother, Thomas Sherwood, went on to become a Bank Manager. He is buried with his parents at the Southern Cemetery in Dunedin.
http://www.dunedin.govt.nz/facilities/cemeteries/cemeteries_search
If you look at the link for the burial of Annie Pourie TOMLINSON, it notes that she died in Christchurch - her last address having been "140 Fendleton* [sic] Road, Christchurch".
I would think that as husband Thomas had predeceased her (1913), she made the move to Christchurch to live with (or be near to) her eldest daughter, Rhoda Faulding TOMLINSON ?
[* Mmm - a spelling error with "Fendalton" ... and maybe street number "140" is incorrect too ?
"Years in NZ" given for Annie ... "10" ... so again this is an error.
Annie and her FISHER family were probably the arrivees per the "Sir Edward Paget" to Otago, 15 August, 1856 ?
"FISHER - William, wife, a son and 3 daughters" ... unfortunately though, the passenger list gives no further identifying information as to ages or native place. ]
~ Lu
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Lu
That all sounds just right. I have been looking at emigres all over the World, and there is no doubt the Scots and their descendants were enterprising.
Alistair
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Hi Lu,
Nice to see the 'Rhoda mystery' solved.
Thanks for that ;D
John B
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My speciality is the Powrie/pourie surname. I'm finishing a book, and plan to be in NZ in January next year, to visit Christchurch and the three branches who emmigrated.
what do you have on Ann? I think it is Ann born 15 Jun 1856, Kaiapoi Island, (later known as Clarkville),Cantebury, New Zealand. I know she died in Zangiora, New Zealand.
Her family (my own) is indeed Scottish, but we had a member of the Royal artillery, who served in South Africa who immigrated there in 1820, but some of their children, including Robert Powrie and Elizabeth Frances Wilson, left for NZ (I have the ship),some got off in Australia, others in NZ.
Robert became a builder in Christchurch, and was part of the militia. they had 18 children, the most prolific of all my 18 branches.
I'm a professional with 30+ years experience, and i love nothing more than helping others. I hope to add your Thomlinson soldier, as i love nothing more than recognizing our heroes. I've added all o mine to Scots at war. If you can't figure it out before I get too NZ,I'll add him to my lit of ones to research.
Mary Powrie Schacht
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Portland,Oregon
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I was wrong about Ann Powrie born to Robert Powrie and Elizabeth Frances Wilson being the mother of David Tomlinson. It was actually Ann Powrie Fisher, formerly of Edinburgh.
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Powrie is an old Gaelic placename meaning "pasturage". I've found 31 variants, Purrie, Pourie is the most common from 1800-1900. I saw the other children's birth,but not the place of birth. Ancestry.com and Familysearch.org have no results. I'll check findmypast.co.uk, but it may have to wait until I can view the records for myself, when I get down myself. I have a Powrie newsletter which goes to 45 countries. I will write my NZ and Australian members, but there are only 3 Ann Powries born in New Zealand. the children spread counts out the Ann born in 1856, as her children with Ernest Joblin happen in the same timeframe, so I have two more to go.
Any help with any marriage between a Tomlinson and Pourie/Powrie would sure help. I can easily eliminate folks in my database of 25,000 Powries. No one else has done this surname as a one-name study. There were two castles, south Powrie and north Pourie, 2 miles north of Dundee, but they were named for the place, and were never owned by our family. It's still fun to have your name on Scottish castles!
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got some help via the New Zealand rootsweb lists.
William and Margaret P FISHER are buried in the Southern Cemetery in Dunedin. Of William it says he is an Engineer from Scotland, and at the time of his death on 28 Feb 1874 he had been in NZ for 17 years. Margaret Powrie Fisher died 18 Nov 1897, was from Forfar, Scotland, and had been in NZ 41 years. So the couple arrived about 1856, along with their children. Another child was William, who died aged 12 and is buried with his parents.
http://www.dunedin.govt.nz/facilities/cemeteries/cemeteries_search?recordid=96428&type=Burial
So I definitely think that Annie Powrie/Pourie TOMLINSON was born Ann Powrie FISHER in 1845 and married Thomas TOMLINSON in 1872.
I can now go back to the Scottish records and see if I can find the family, and how Powrie entered the family name.
We are making our travel plans to go to NZ in Jan.
Mary
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Margaret Powrie (spelled Pourie) m 6 Jul 1842, in St. Cuthberts, Edinburgh, Midlothian, Scotland to William Fisher. they had 6 children Ann Pourie Fisher, 1 Jun 1845, Saint Cuthberts, Edinburgh, Midlothian, Scotland. Catherine Fisher, David 1854, Jane 1843, Margaret 1852, William ch. 1849.
They were not from Forfar or Forfarshire (now Angus) but Edinburgh. Dunedin was the early name, ironic as they are buried in it's name sake, in New Zealand.
Hope this info helps.
Mary Powrie Schacht
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St. Cuthbert's Edinburgh, Midlothian 685/2/45 Frame 2026 (GROS ref.) I downloaded the original records, if anyone wants copies.
The LDS did one incomplete filming of the GROS, which houses only Presbyterian records, and the LDS were denied access to the other faiths. Since that one filming numerous records have turned up. I use both resources but with 30+ years experience I've learned to use the Scottish sources, though I have volunteered at my local center, and occasionally teach classes in Scotland and Canada.
Mary
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Mary
Thanks for the additional information.
Alistair
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banns read:4th July 1842
William Fisher Engine keeper lately residing in No 2 Dalry lane and margaret powrie residing in No. 3 wallace place, both in this parish daughter of the late David Powrie, joiner in Newtyle,were there of pronounced three several times duly,and regularly proclaimed in the parish of St.Cuthbert's and no objections offered was married at Newtyle the 6th day of July current by the rev. john,moore, minister of the parish of Newtyle. I have that family back to 1750, which is as far as you can go without going to Scotland for guild records, (if applicable, men were indentured 16 years for each level) doctor records, land rentals, land evaluation (done every 10 years. 28 Jul 1817, Newtyle was one possible christening to a David in Newtyle.
St Cutberts in a beautiful church, just below Edinburgh Castle. The reason it's been destroyed and rebuilt several times. It is not square..so the devil has no corner to hide in, and a life size marble carving of the last supper is behind the alter. A housekeeper let me come in to pray during cleaning, so I have lovely pics and memories. I was out strolling the graveyard, and out of concern for my safety, they approached and invited me inside. It is not safe except in daylight, as they are popular places for drug users. I've been to Newtyle several times.
David Pourie and Jean Mason had 7 children.
It's very lucky that an OPR period bann has a father, place and occupation listed.
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Margaret Powrie ch. 28 Jul 1817, Newtyle to David Powrie (spelled Pourie back then) master joiner and Jean Mason. Margaret Powrie married William Fisher.
06/07/1842 FISHER WILLIAM MARGARET POWRIE/FR2026 (FR2026) M ST CUTHBERT'S EDINBURGH CITY CITY/MIDLOTHIAN 685/02 0450 0126
these are banns but they married in Newtyle, then Forfarshire, now in Angus. It was renamed.
I have 7 children for David Pourie and Jean Mason. I confirmed his occpation on his daughter Angnes pourie Mitchell's death record in 1890. Agnes married the village surgeon James Mitchell. (6 children). their monument inscription, grave 63 Newtyle reads:
Jas mitchell surgeon newtyle 6.4.1842 43, w agnes pourie 25.1.1890, da agnes 6.5.1840 10, s david d.port elizabeth s.africa 29.1.1873 30. I have a cousin Peter powrie who lives in Port Elizabeth, if you want more info on him.
Margaret's sister
Ann (1865-1883) married James Robertson
brother Rev.john Pourie (i have a photo) wasa popular minister in Calcutta, India. He's buried at Rookwood Cemetery, a suburb of Sydney, Australia.
brother James Pourie married Elizabeth Cruickshank. She died in London, so the family is everywhere! I have 1,198 in this line with the Tomlinsons. Can you give me the marriages for David's 4 siblings?
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If you search you will find a Blackwatch (royal Scot) monument on Powrie Brae. I lay a wreath there every visit, and have been to the Blackwatch museum at Balhosie Castle in Perth, Scotland. Perhaps you'd like to add him to the Scots at War Trust website? I've posted all my fallen Purrie, Pourie and Powrie soldiers and sailors.
Interesting a memorial for David's regiment is on a hill in his grandparent's homeland which bears his grandmother's name. It is the Gaelic place name and there is a South Powrie castle and a North Pourie castle,both names for the place, 2 miles north of Dundee. Powrie brae is on the Firth of Tay just south of Dundee. Powries originate along the Carse of Gowrie which runs from Perth to Dundee.
ironic too david is buried in Dunedin, NZ (the ancient name of Edinburgh) where his grandparents attended church. I'll visit his stone when I visit in January, and I'll make sure the flowers I lay contain a bit o heather! Mary
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Mary
Thank you.
Alistair
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more from the wonderful kiwis on the rootsweb.
2 people by the name of Charles Edward Tomlinson married in 1915, so it’s impossible from that information to say which is yours. Checked both deaths. One died in 1950 aged 68Y, making him born 1882. One died in 1964 aged 79Y, so born in 1885. Very little in it. The one in 1964 died in Nelson, and the one in 1950 died in Auckland. You have other names in Nelson so I suspect the second guy just shades it, but it really is a little too close to call. The first guy, who died in 1950, is very accurate with his age. We know he was born in 1882.
Checked the births and sure enough, one born in 1882 and one in 1885. 1882 is yours.
So, Charles Edward Tomlinson, reg no. 1950/30973, died 9 Dec 1950. Cremated at Waikumete Cemetery, Auckland. Probate granted in Auckland Court on 15 Dec 1950.
Discovered that Marjorie Joyce Tomlinson was cremated in Auckland, whereas Ivy Coral Tomlinson was buried in Nelson. So with some certainty I think that the marriage was:
Charles Edward Tomlinson married Marjorie Joyce Whittan, reg no. 1915/1410, on 16 Jun 1915.
Marjorie died on 23 Apr 1959 aged 73Y. Cremated at Purewa Cemetary on 25 Apr 1959. Probate granted on 22 May 1959 in Auckland Court.
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Scots have a long proud history of being warriars. They hold to duty, self and national pride!
William Fisher Tomlinson reg no. 1927/5856 married Ethel Maud Wolf on 12 Aug 1927.
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Scope and content Major David Mitchell TOMLINSON.
The Royal Scots (Lothian Regiment).
Covering dates 1914-1919
Held by The National Archives, Kew
Former reference (Department) 57909
Legal status Public Record(s)
Language English
Found what I need at the PRO in Kew, England to find his service record. they were burned during the blitz of WWI, and filmed as burned records. (filming one page, then the next, often destroying each top page to reveil those beneath. I will ask the expert, Richard Moles, if he can find it and quote a cost. (usually around 40-80 pounds depending on what is desired). Begin date, ship transports to each theatre, verifying peronnel numbers. All Scottish regiments (except militia) after 1763 are housed at the British archives, refered to as the Public Records Office. Militia and any paybook wills (written by the soldiers) are at the National archive of scotland.
Mary
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http://www.1914-1918.net/royalscots.htm nice booklet available
UK, Soldiers Died in the Great War, 1914-1919 <http://www.ancestry.com/search/db.aspx?dbid=1543&enc=1>
about David Mitchell Tomlinson
Name: David Mitchell Tomlinson
Death Date: 13 May 1916
Rank: Major (T)
Regiment: Royal Scots (Lothian Regiment)
Battalion: 13th Battalion
Type of Casualty: Died of wounds
13th battalion Formed at Edinburgh, September
1914, as part of K2. Moved to Aldershot.
September 1914 : attached to 45th
Brigade, 15th (Scottish) Division.
Went to billets in Bramshott November
1914, then Basingstoke February 1915 and on to Chisledon in March.
Landed in France July 1915.
lots of references to the unit and battalions online.
Anyone with a loved one on the CGCW can order a memorial or grave photo for around 5 pounds, all goes to their mission to maintain the graveswordwide. Do you know who has his medals and "dead man's penny"?
HOPE this helps,
Mary in Oregon (powrie hstorian)
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Mary
Thank you. For my purposes, I now know enough about this young man. The service records held at Kew were actually destroyed by a WW2 bomb in the blitz. Only about 30% remain.
Alistair
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http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=tomlinson&GSiman=1&GScid=1996142&GRid=56166962& I didn't understand that David fell in Pas-de-Calais, France not NZ. but I have that straight now.
I requested a photo of his grave, which you may have already. Cimetière communal de Béthune is the french name for the cemetery. I have 5 Powrie men buried in France.
there are some nice images of men in that unit, so if you don't have one of David, you can see the uniform. I collect regimental badges for each Powrie lost. Blackwatch is the most frequent/common. It makes me feel closer to "my lads" as I research. My four boys are 22-38 so I understand a mother's worry.
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Mary
A photo would be good. I will pm you my email address.
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tomlinson, david Mitchell of Dunedin, New Zealand, major in H.M. army died 13 May 1916 in France Probate Dunedin to Thomas Sherwood Tomlinson Effecrs L1469s 11d in United Kingdom Sealed London 9 May. His brother was the benificiary.
bit more on will, no paybook will that I can find. Found a couple booklets on the regiment. He recieved (his family) the victory and 1915 star medals, and the dead man's penny. I checked some places who buy medals, as a couple generations on, medals laying in a jewelry box do get sold. His will have his full name stamped on the edge, so they can be attributed to him forever.
I've found Scottish medals and dead man's pennies in Australia, thanks to observant kin, and restored them to family. If you know where they are, I will stop looking. Some families donate medals and other items to the regimental museum. Royal Scots have a beautiful museum at Balhousie castle in Perth. They can't take on research, but I wrote to ask about regimental photos and books.
Mary
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David Mitchell was my great uncle i am new to this but have managed to get a family tree together now im looking for information on specific people so anything here would be great
thanks
sally
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I can definately veryfy for you that Rhoda Tomlinson was the eldest child of Thomas Tomlinson and Annie Pourie and did marry another Thomas Tomlinson of no relation.
Charles Edward was his brother born in 1884 and died in 1955 married b. Whitton.
This has been great
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Hi Sally - I know we're four years on from your last post, but my research has only just pulled up your great uncle, to whom I'm a 1st cousin 3x removed. I found the regimental war diaries online, and, just in case you haven't, I can confirm that he was severely wounded on the 11th May 1916 during a reconnaissance of the trench system near Hulluch, not far from Loos. It is reported that he died the next day, and, given that he's buried in Bethune, I think we can safely assume he was evacuated out to a field hospital there, where he died.
I wonder if you have a photograph of him? I have spend nearly four years researching ancestors killed in WW1, and I try and find a photo if at all possible. In June I am travelling from home (Shropshire UK) to France and Belgium to visit the graves and memorials of all that I have found. Needless to say I have added your great uncle to the list, which is now 11.
John
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William Fisher Tomlinson was my grandfather. He married Ethel Maud BENTHAM a widow. 1st husband was Sidney Aloysius WOLF.
William died in Christchurch 22 March 1962.
He had a sister Rhoda Spaulding TOMLINSON who lived at 140 Fendalton Road. My understanding was she was a spinster. She died 30 September 1950 aged 78.
They had a brother Harold TOMLINSON
who lived in Levin NZ. Harold had a daughter Kathleen who nursed in South Africa for years and a son David who also lived in Levin married and had children. He owned a cordial factory in Levin.
There is also Rhoda Emily TOMLINSON who died in Christchurch 22 March1962 aged 86. Her husband was Thomas William TOMLINSON. To the best of my knowledge the two Rhodas were not related.
I do know that there was Sherwood TOMLINSON in my grandfather's family.
I think I still have a photo album belonging to William.
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Hi Antonia, and welcome to RootsChat :)
I have just sent the original poster a Personal Message advising him for your post. I hope you hear from him soon.
I see that there are others who also posted in 2014 and 2018. If you reply twice more to this topic, just a smiley in the text field will be fine, you will activate your Personal Message facility and will be able to send and reply to private messages. You could then try to make direct contact with those members to further your research.
see Personal Messages (PM)
https://www.rootschat.com/help/pms.php
If you have any questions you are welcome to ask me by PM or post your question on the topic and I'll reply.
Best wishes,
Spades