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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Dublin => Topic started by: TonyV on Wednesday 09 May 12 21:42 BST (UK)
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I am helping a friend research this family from Dublin. Charles Augustus Gaskin was born in Dublin in 1910. His father was also Charles and married to Norma Long. Some or all of the family emigrated to England where Charles the younger met and married an English woman. If anyone can throw any light on the family in Ireland I'd love to hear from you. Incidentally the family was shown living in Lower Erne St. in the 1911 census.
Tony
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Here's the family on the 1911 census for reference :
Gaskin/Long household - Lwr Erne Street (http://census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/South_Dock/Erne_Street__Lower/93195/)
All born Dublin City, and Charles snr & Norah are married 6 years, so c1905.
probable birth references for Charles jnr age 11 months :
Name: Charles Gaskin
Registration district: Dublin South
Event type: Birth
Quarter and year: Apr - Jun 1910
Volume : 2 / Page: 742
and marriage for Charles snr :
Name: Charles Gaskin
Rregistration district: Dublin North
Event type: Marriage
Quarter and year: Jul - Sep 1905
Volume : 2 / Page: 532
There's a cross-match to a Norah Long
see : Ordering Certs from GRO Roscommon (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,599538.0.html)
Details included on a Birth Cert (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,433041.0.html)
Details included on a Marriage Cert (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,433042.0.html)
Shane
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possible matches for Norah and Charles on the 1901 returns - unfortunately neither with parents or siblings... :
Murray/Long household, Queen's Square (http://census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/South_Dock/Queen_Square/1349871/)
Bury/Byrne/Gaskin household, Innisfallen Parade (http://census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Inns_Quay/Innisfallen_Parade/1324634/)
Shane
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Thanks Shane for such a quick reply. I had the 1911 reference from the brilliant Irish site but not the marriage (great article on tenements in Dublin such as those in Erne St). May I ask which site the marriage reference is from (or is it your own transcription)?
cheers
Tony
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Civil BMD references are from the Irish BMD Index on FamilySearch - see :
Introduction to Irish Records (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,442233.0.html)
Posting a link to the census return helps people see the full details on the forms without having to search again. e.g. years married, places of birth, occupations etc, which help the search.
possible baptism for Norah on the Irish Genealogy website - civil marriage cert mentioned above would show father's name, occupation etc and may be able to confirm this, or rule it out...
Baptism of Hanora Long, 1882 (http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/078f2a0261362)
St. Andrew's RC Parish, Dublin City
Parents : Jerimiah Long & Mary Jane Byrne
and a corresponding possible civil record from the BMD Index - these give some additional information compared to parish records - e.g. father's occupation.
Name: Nora Long
Registration district: Dublin South
Event type: Birth
Quarter and year: Oct - Dec 1882
Volume: 2 / page: 686
Shane
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likely baptism for Charles - also from www.irishgenealogy.ie
Baptism of Charles Agustin Gaskin - 1879 (http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/772df90257868)
St. Andrew's RC Parish, Dublin City
Address : 45 Queens Street
Parents : Charles Gaskin & Margeret Kilfoy
the street the Gaskin family are living on is the same as the one as Norah is living in 1901.
Shane
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Shane
i also wondered whether Charles Agustin Gaskin was the same man. The 1911 census gave his calculated birth year as 1877 whereas the baptism is 1879. Both could be correct of course and I also know that census ages are often wrong for various reasons. I see that there were other Gaskin baptisms from the same address, presumably siblings.
Thank you again for spending time on this. It is appreciated.
cheers
Tony
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I believe that the record for Charles is correct as the following baptisms are on the Irish Genealogy site
Siblings of Charles
parents Charles GASKIN and Margaret Guillfoyle/Gillfoyle/Gilfoy/Kilfoy
Mary Lucinda 1873
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/7a06c20250357
possible death in 1875 Dublin South Volume 17 Page 582
Ellen 1875
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/9318db0252857
possible marriage in 1901 Jul-Sep Dublin South Volume 2 Page 696 but I cannot see her on the 1901 census
Lucinda 1876
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/919dd30254154
* see below
Charles 1877
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/772df90257868
Cornelius John 1880
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/7c2d4f0258961
died 1882 Dublin South Apr-Jun Volume 2 Page 617
Then there is the marriage of Lucy GASKIN to William BURY which links Charles with 1901 census return given by Shane!
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/05e0fc0060671
note William's father's name BYKER! I thought that was great
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Hi Tonyv
Just a few more bits to add to the super finds of Shane and 'myluck'
The Gaskin's seemed to have lived at 45 Queen's Square for a while so I did a search under the address
Some of the witness' on these baptisms are Gaskin's - so with a fairly rare surname and a match on the address, it's most likely theses Gaskin's were closely related
A Daniel Patrick Gaskin and Sarah Gaskin witness'
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/b6e11f0263567
Sarah Gaskin witness
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/6783130265294
James Gaskin witness
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/0884bf0259323
Anne Gaskin witness
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/46d2220271692
Tara
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Possible Ellen that 'myluck' was looking for ??
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/South_Dock/Hughe_s_Cottages/1349579/
Tara
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Well done Tara on Ellen - could well be her!!
Following up on the other side:
Shane suggested that Nora LONG was at Queen’s Square on the 1901 Census and the birth in 1882 is Nora
If Nora is the daughter of Jeremiah LONG and Mary Jane BYRNE and described as the niece of William MURRAY in 1901 then logically she is the daughter of William’s sister or his wife or her sister. (Her name would be Murray if William's brother’s child)
As this is possibly the marriage of William MURRAY and Elizabeth BYRNE
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/84d4fd0446918
Then Elizabeth could be the sister of Mary Jane BYRNE (mother shown on baptism record of Hanora Long found by Shane) confirming the connection although BYRNE is a common name.
The addresses are also close together at Queens St
The marriage of Jeremiah LONG and Mary Jane BYRNE is online
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/7090df0444746
As are their possible other children listed here with others
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0m9q/
The marriage shows Jeremiah's parents as Thomas LONG and Nora ? and Mary Jane's parents as James BYRNE and Julia ?
Lots for you to go through!
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Thank you both for your contributions (and Shane of course). Irish genealogy is new to me as an Englishman descended from generations of East Midlands peasants, despite the fact that I've been genealogicising for several years. With your help I now know a lot more about where to look and my new sister-in-law is delighted to hear about her maternal Irish ancestors. Having said that, the article about poverty and disease in Dublin tenements, where they lived, tempers that joy. One of the great things about this hobby is that you learn a bit about the hard lives and times of the people who were responsible for us being here. Puts the difficulties of our modern lives into perspective!
Tony
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Hi Tony,
All my family are from generations that came from the Dublin tenements. When they were moved to the 'suburbs' in the 1930's to a 2 up 2 down (11 of them in the family) and an outdoor toilet, they thought they were in the lap of luxury HA.
The thing is that over the years and speaking to the 'old timers', most of them loved it in the inner city. As hard as it was, everyone was in the same boat, no-one knew any different, and there was always someone close to hand to help out.
Tara
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Hi Tara
That's an interesting perspective. My maternal grandparents lived in an inner city rented terraced house, although they didn't share it with several other families. I am old enough to remember however that there was a great sense of community there. I suppose that the 'didn't know any better' issues in their case related to the lack of an inside loo, no central heating, a boiler and mangle used to launder clothes and a general lack of so-called 'white goods'. My own mother had every childhood serious illness going and by right should never had survived, unlike so many of the Dublin tenement children, because there were no antibiotics.
So I accept that they were different times and that distance blurs perspective, but from where I stand they were still pretty shocking times.
Interestingly it appears likely that the Gaskin family I'm looking into came to England to escape those conditions. What is not clear however is whether they found much improvement in 1920s London when they arrived.
Tony
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Hello Tony,
I am related to the William Bury and Lucy Gaskin from Inishfallen Parade, Dublin. I would prefer to email you privately.
Regards,
Julie
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Welcome Julie
To send a Private Message you must make at least three posts first
Just reply twice to this with thank you or any other comment!
Then you can use the icon on the left that look like a "rectangular piece of paper with writing"
hover your mouse over the icons under the nom de plume/nickname and you'll see it
We are not allowed to post email addressed on the topics directly
Hope you both find out more about your families
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Thank you.
Julie
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Thanks again.
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Hi Tony
been reading the the posts attached to this thread, i suspect i would be a 1st cousin of the folks putting together this family background.
just to be sure ill drop a couple of words that should ring some bells if i have the right Gaskins
if so ill post what i have to help
MAY TOLLA
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Any relation to this guy or is Gaskins a different name altogether ?
Regards Robbie.
https://comeheretome.com/2015/12/05/a-treasure-trove-of-irish-football-history-peadar-gaskins-photo-album/
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John Gasken and Mary Anne Colgan 1898
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1898/10427/5796527.pdf
Peter 1908 (inkblot)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1908/01656/1660688.pdf
1911
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Pembroke_East/Bridge_St_/59242/
Peter and Beatrice Thompson 1934
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1934/08965/5244833.pdf
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Hi Tony
been reading the the posts attached to this thread, i suspect i would be a 1st cousin of the folks putting together this family background.
just to be sure ill drop a couple of words that should ring some bells if i have the right Gaskins
if so ill post what i have to help
MAY TOLLA
Hi Merlin-v
Thanks for your post. It is my fairly new sister-in-law for whom I am doing the research and she now has the results of the fantastic response I got when I started this thread. It is her maternal side that is from the Gaskin family and her mother's name is May. She is still alive I believe so I won't add more information online but if necessary we can PM to keep it confidential. The word or name Tolla doesn't mean anything to me and has not come up in my records.
If you are indeed a first cousin I'm sure that she would love to know about you.
Tony
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Hi Robbie
Don't know is the shortest answer. Someone earlier in this post remarked that Gaskin was a fairly uncommon name. I'd not come across it before but here is a quote from a surname dictionary
"Last name: Gaskin. This notable surname, recorded in the Irish province of Leinster since the 13th Century, is a variant form of Gascoigne, itself a medieval English regional name for someone from the province of Gascony in South West France."
So the variant seems to be very Irish. My own surname is Vines but in my own history I've come across the variant Vine, even in recent generations. It may be a cleric or administrator mis-hearing the name before writing it down or sometimes maybe because it relates to the plural as in "I am one of the Gaskins" meaning "I am a member of the Gaskin family" Pity the poor cleric who has to get the record straight!
I'd be quite surprised if the Gaskin and Gaskins families didn't have a common ancestor some time in the last 400-500 years.
Thanks for the reference to the famous footballer.
Tony
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Thanks Dathai. I've not had a chance to look these up yet or to see whether they relate. But I will :)
Tony
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merlin-v
I've been in touch with my sister-in-law and she confirms that the name Tolla was the nickname of her grandfather's sister. So it does seem likely that there is a connection.
At this point we might need to talk about people who are still alive so we should use PM rather than this open part of the forum.
If you also agree that there might be a link please PM me and I'll respond. Incidentally you have to have posted 3 (I think) times to be then able to use the PM system but if you don't yet qualify a couple of short posts to this thread will quickly sort that out.
cheers
Tony
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Wow we're on the right thread here
Aunt May must be a grand age
I'll place a couple more posts then start a pm connection
Many thanks
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Little confused you say your sister in law is the granddaughter of Charlie and not his daughter so it's the next generation searching for their roots
Do you want me to post what info I have on here or via a pm
Cheers. merlin-v
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Folks
I started this thread over 5 years ago when I first started looking into the family of my lovely new (then) sister-in-law with her blessing and interest. I had some great help from posters from the start and was quickly able to join some dots and eventually present her with quite a lot of detail of her Irish ancestors to add to her Scottish and Cumberland family, most of which she was unaware of.
The latest posts have resulted in an introduction by a 1st cousin who was unaware of my sister-in-law or she of him. They are delighted with the contact and he has been able to add a lot of family detail to fill out the bare facts of births, marriages and deaths.
I am stepping out of it now and leaving it to them as they have the tools between them to take it further. I am grateful to all the posters above who have helped me and them to get to this point. RootsChatters Rock!
Tony
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Thank you Tony and continued successes in your researching. It never truly ends!
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Hi Tony.
It's probably irrelevant, but i live in a small townland outside Cavan town called Ragaskin (gaskins fort)??
DC
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Hi DC
Thanks for your contact. That's an interesting idea. Not being Irish I don't know how common the name Gaskin is (or was) or its history but if my sister-in-law wants to research her ancestors' history further it would be an interesting line to examine.
It's perhaps an interesting footnote to my work on her behalf that she now has an Irish passport through her Irish ancestors. I think that she may be trying to escape England if we leave the EU. It certainly wasn't why I looked into her background for her but I guess that sometimes the things we do as genealogists have unintended consequences.
Tony
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Hi
Something you might be interested in.
My great great grandfather Cornelius Griffin lived at 45 Queens square and was friends with Charles Gaskin. Charles was an actor who went under the name Charles Sullivan.
I have attached an extract from a book and also two pictures from an old bible which one of the family owns.
regards
Declan
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Hi Declan
Thanks for your contact. Your information is not something that I was aware of and I'm not sure that my sister-in-law knows either. Before I pass on your information to her can I clarify something. You have attached parts of a family bible. Whose family bible is that and if it is your Griffin family why does it have stuff about Charles Sullivan in it?
cheers
Tony
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Will index top of left hand page
http://www.willcalendars.nationalarchives.ie/reels/cwa/005014901/005014901_00496.pdf
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Wife was pregnant at time of his death
son Francis born 1887 father actor deceased
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1887/02561/1947233.pdf
sadly died 1893
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1893/05995/4705356.pdf
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Grandfather of Francis, Thomas Dalton died 1896
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1896/05891/4671333.pdf
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Hi Tony, the Bible is owned by my cousin one of the Griffin’s. It was handed down over the years and we assume it originally belonged to Cornelius Griffin or his wife Sarah. I can only assume as they were living in the same house that they were good friends. It also possible there was some connection between the families. Charles Gaskin(Sullivan) was only 39 when he died in Liverpool 27/02/1887. There are some newspaper articles on his death one in the Evening Telegraph Angus Scotland dated 3/03/1887 under the name Charles Sullivan.
Hope this helps
Regards Declan
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Hi Tony, in addition to my post yesterday I was looking back through records today to see if I could find any family connection and found the following.
Charles Gaskin (Sullivan) was married to Margaret Guilfoyle. Cornelius Griffin’s second wife Sarah Kinsley had previously been married to Daniel Guilfoyle in 1838.
As Margaret was born around 1850 it’s likely Daniel was her uncle making Sarah her aunt.
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Hi Declan
Thanks for everything you've posted. Your last post now makes more sense of the Gaskin/Sullivan details being in your own family bible. I was reading a book on FH the other day that talked about related or otherwise close families in the centuries before industrialisation staying in the same small areas for generations and inter-marrying. Apparently that continued to happen after people moved to the cities. It was because people with the same trade skills looked after each other and families who had moved could provide cheap board and lodgings for relations as they too moved. So people stayed close even after the cities expanded so fast in the 19th century.
Thanks too for the stuff Dathai posted which were both interesting and sad.
I started this thread for my sister-in-law 10 years ago because she is part descended from the Gaskins. I know that as a result she has made contact with one of the earlier posters who was also a descendant but they didn't know each other previously. The wonders of Rootschat! She also now knows a lot more about Charles Gaskin the comedian. The clues are in the fact that Declan mentioned that Charles married Margaret Gilfoyle but Dathai's post of the Letter of Administration says that his widow was Mary.
My sister-in-law now has a link to the forum and this thread so I better be careful what I say in case my lovely sister-in-law is watching. :)
Again I do appreciate all the help given by the many people who have added to this thread.
Tony
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Hi Tony
I am a relative of Charles Gaskin. The junior in your post, born in 1910, son of Charles senior and Norah. He was my grandfather. Can I help you at all?