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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Tephra on Tuesday 15 May 12 10:50 BST (UK)

Title: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Tephra on Tuesday 15 May 12 10:50 BST (UK)


Welcome to this weeks Scavenger Hunt, Nifty has a problem he's hoping you can 'flesh out' for him.

Good Luck and Good Hunting

Barbara

                                  *************************

Hi/Hello
I am trying to use the many brains and resources that may be accessed via this thread.

Barbara has kindly advised me to give as much information as possible and that I should read the relevant threads of others to get some idea how to ask about a subject.

I have done as Barbara suggested and one term which I liked that was used by another poster was 'the scatter-gun approach' and is one which I had intended to stick with until I had something more tangible to go on. The trouble for me with the scatter-gun approach is that my family is pretty complicated. Therefore I will try and address my further questions in some sort of chronological focus if any development should occur from this initial post.

Other lines which had a particular resonance with me was,
'I am now writing it all down to bring clarity to my mind, it's like having a whole new family.
My great grandfather certainly lived on the edge'.

I feel that some of my forefathers and mothers may have also lived on the edge. I believe my father certainly did. I want to learn all that I can about him/them and that is the reason for my starting this thread.

As the product of a failed marriage, I have several families that I want to research. I have considerable amount of information on my mother's side, and also my father, which for the interests of clarity and focus, I shall introduce others into this thread at a later date.
For the time being, I am trying to learn more about my father who was
Marsh Ramsay Brown Born Auckland (co Durham) p.10a vol.48 (sic. BMD) died 1985,
his direct family and his forefathers families.
I have discovered through the notes of my late mother that my late father was born on December 30th 1923.

My father's last wife told me that he said that 'he was very clever, had been to university and had a degree'. I have reason to believe that he was clever, but wonder if he did in fact attend university.
I have written to the archives at Durham University (the natural place to start looking?) and am informed that he did not attend any course there. Though of course he may have been elsewhere.(?)

In April 1943 he was taken on for aircrew training at the RAF ACRC at Regents Park in London.
It is at this point I wish the Hunters to look backwards on his life because, as the character Manuel of Faulty Towers might say 'I know nothing'
except:
His father Elias,(known as Fred) was born at Stanley Peases West Crook co. Durham in 1896 but was at West Rainton seven years later.
His mother's name was Margaret Brown (p11 1911 census?) but I do not know of her occupation etc.
Elias was the youngest of two brothers John (1894 at Stanley) and Robert (c.1891 Stanley Peases Mount Pleasant in 1891 census))
His grandfather was
Robert Marsh b1841, Sunderland, was a Weaver by trade married to
Elizabeth Dye b 1844, Sunderland, a Potter by trade.
Her mother was Barbara Macintosh born 1821, Houghton Durham, she married a
James Dye or 'Deye' born 1814 Norfolk.

Can anybody please flesh out or substantiate these facts out and/or go back further?
 
 
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: vronlady on Tuesday 15 May 12 11:39 BST (UK)
well elizabeth dye did marry robert marsh in 1864 in sunderland.

on the 1871 census in sunderland

RG10/5015/24 p 47     
Filter's Row, Sunderland

robert (weaver) and elizabeth have three children john (1866), elias (1868) and sarah (1871) all born county durham .
 with them is barbara mcintosh - mother and widow born 1821 durham


this elias is much older than the elias you quote so i think there must be another generation
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: vronlady on Tuesday 15 May 12 11:43 BST (UK)
in 1891 son elias is married

MARSH, Elias Head Married 23  Coal Miner b Sunderland Durham 
MARSH, Margaret Wife Married F 20 b Blackhorse Durham   
MARSH, Robert Son  M 0 (1M) 1891  Mount Pleasant Durham

RG12/4076/140 p 22     
33, Mount Pleasant, Crook And Billy Row, Billy Row  Durham
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: vronlady on Tuesday 15 May 12 11:49 BST (UK)
1901
RG13/4697 / 101 p 37       
Cocken Terrace, West Rainton,

MARSH, Elias Head Married  33 Coal Miner Hewer  Sunderland Durham
MARSH, Margaret Wife Married  30  Sunderland Durham
MARSH, Robert Son 10   Stanley Durham
MARSH, John Son   7   Stanley Durham
MARSH, Elias Son   5  Stanley Durham
MARSH, Joseph Son  1  Cocken Terrace Durham
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: vronlady on Tuesday 15 May 12 11:54 BST (UK)
1911
information removed

Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Tephra on Tuesday 15 May 12 12:02 BST (UK)

Vron..... we're not allowed to put up info regarding 1911 census!!     ;D ;D
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Tephra on Tuesday 15 May 12 12:20 BST (UK)


Thanks             :D :D
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: vronlady on Tuesday 15 May 12 12:43 BST (UK)
1861 - bit muddled?
MCINTOSH, Barbara Head Widow F 43 1818 Dock Labourers Widow Durham   
DYE, Ann Daughter Married F 20 1841 Bricklayers Wife Thirsk Yorkshire   
DYE, Elizabeth Daughter In Law Unmarried F 17 1844 Potter  Norfolk   
DYE, Robert Son In Law Unmarried M 12 1849 Masons Labourer  Durham   
Piece: 3778 Folio: 51 Page: 12   Registration District: 12     
Civil Parish: Sunderland
Municipal Borough: Sunderland
Address: 1, South Alley, Sunderland
County: Durham
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Nifty1 on Tuesday 15 May 12 12:46 BST (UK)
vronlady (and others who have replied while I have been writing this)
Thank you very much for your info, it is most welcome.
I can hardly believe it has appeared so quickly. I am in New Zealand at present and it is midnight.
I will look into it more tomorrow.

Meanwhile, please can you tell me if Robert, John or Sarah Marsh who were the brothers and sister  of Elias (b. 1896) had any children?
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: vronlady on Tuesday 15 May 12 12:54 BST (UK)
there is this submitted on family search

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.2.1/M1YX-5FS
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: vronlady on Tuesday 15 May 12 12:58 BST (UK)
if you look on the new family search you will find lots more about the siblings and their marriages etc etc
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: vronlady on Tuesday 15 May 12 13:02 BST (UK)
and the eldest elias in 1841
MARSH, Elias 45      sail cloth weaver
MARSH, Sarah 40   
MARSH, Joseph 18  
MARSH, Elizabeth 15    
MARSH, Elias 10     
MARSH, Mary  6 Durham   
MARSH, Robt  2  Durham
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: vronlady on Tuesday 15 May 12 13:10 BST (UK)
one of the missing baptisms of that family
Elias Marsh bp 13 Jan 1833 Limehouse, son of Elias and Sarah Marsh.  Elias senr's occupation: weaver

Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: vronlady on Wednesday 16 May 12 10:34 BST (UK)
coming forward this is the marriage of your grandparents

Elias MARSH & Lily Brown Auckland RD Mar qtr 1921 Vol 10a 421
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Nifty1 on Wednesday 16 May 12 23:03 BST (UK)
I have found several contenders on who may have been my paternal grandmother
Lily Brown   born c.1899 Hanley, Staffordshire
Lily Brown   born c. 1901 Shotton Washington, Durham 
Lily Brown   born  c.1899 Hanley, Shotton Staffordshire

There may be more here https://www.familysearch.org/search/records/index#count=20&query=%2Bgivenname%3Alily~%20%2Bsurname%3Abrown~%20%2Bany_place%3Adurham~%20%2Bany_year%3A1890-1911~&collection_id=1921547
I have tried to follow the advice given here https://www.familysearch.org/node/1144  and, as the introduction says, 'searching can be like looking for needle in a prairie full of haystacks'

Please could anybody tell me which ancestor is  likely to be  my grandmother (married to Ramsay’s Father is  most likely to be.

Note Raw information from certain sources should not be posted on this site.
If you have any relevant information that falls into that bracket to offer please send it to me via personal message.
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Annette7 on Thursday 17 May 12 01:17 BST (UK)
There are too many possibilities to 2nd. guess who Lily Brown was - really think you need to get the marriage certificate of Elias Marsh and Lily Brown, who as mentioned, married in 1921, to confirm her age and name of father.

Elias' parents were Elias Marsh and Margaret Peacock whose marriage is listed in Dec.qtr.1889 Auckland.    However, Margaret Peacock is not easy to pinpoint either - she consistently says on 1891 and later census that she was bc.1871 but birthplace varies from Blackhouse, Spennymoor and Sunderland and cannot identify an obvious Margaret at any of these places in 1871 or 1881 census.

Annette
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Nifty1 on Thursday 17 May 12 01:42 BST (UK)
Annette 7
Thank you for your concise reply Annette7

I had realised that there were an enormous range of possibilities  when I found around 175 possibilities.

I have quite a lot 'on my plate' as it is at the minute, but, if I ever was short of something to do I thought that I could manually try narrow the list down. I thought that the software that presents to possibilities might have automatically ranked them in order according to the search words given and there may be an effective way of narrowing the field sufficiently to take a semi informed guess.

As a slight aside I notice that there are many Lily Marsh's around that time. Does anyone know exactly why it was fashionable at that time?
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Annette7 on Thursday 17 May 12 02:08 BST (UK)
Concise?

Semi-informed guess??

Alas, guesses shouldn't form part of your ancestry - you could find yourself researching completely the wrong line as many on here have found to their regret.

Since the time frame is the early part of your ancestry you need to be sure you have things right from the get-go.   Sometimes certificates are the only way to confirm things I'm afraid.   

Annette

PS Did your father have a brother?   I note another Marsh ws born Mar.1936 whose mothers maiden name was Brown (can't post full name as could still be living) and as the only Marsh/Brown marriage in Auckland was Elias/Lily wondered if this was another child (13 years between he and your father).     
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Nifty1 on Thursday 17 May 12 02:32 BST (UK)
Re Father haveing a brother

I have always been under the imressionthat he was an only child. It is unfortunate if so because there seems to be no one that I can ask about what he was like. It struck me that it may be I might find decendants of his father's brothers who I think would be my second cousins.
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: vronlady on Thursday 17 May 12 15:06 BST (UK)
i did see the other marsh birth in auckland but given the long time difference i thought it unlikely but you never know. the only way to be sure would be to buy the birth cert. likewise the only way to be sure about lily brown would be to buy the marriage cert giving age, fathers name and occupation etc.
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Nifty1 on Monday 21 May 12 03:03 BST (UK)
I would like to thank everybody who has so far contributed to this thread. I have consolidated the information gained from it and would like to see if I can glean any more information before the thread  becomes too cold.

In 1944 (or before)the late  Ramsay Marsh, son of Elias and Lily, met a girl in Canada and married her there in 1945. She died a few years ago but it is not my intention to look into her background but rather to look to see what I can find of my late mother's (Thelma E. E. Kirtland b 1928) family. So far I have got basic details as follows:

According to the Slough Windsor an Eton Express she married my father at Windsor Methodist church at Windsor on Sunday 2 6 1952. I know that the wedding reception was held at The Swan P.H. in Clewer near Windsor. The paper says that the Best Man at the wedding was Mr. A. G. Morton-Fuller, who I suspect, may have been an American or Canadian air force Flight Sergeant.  How can I find out about him?

My mother's  father (Leonard Ralph Kirtland) was born at Clewer, Berkshire in 1885. He died at Windsor hospital of TB in 1956.
His wife Ethel Elizabeth Nee Green was born at Winkfield Berkshire in Dec. 1889 and died at   Winkfield in 1967 having spent all of her life in and around Windsor. Apparently she delivered milk from a horse and cart there when she was about 14.

Her mother or other relations may be mentioned in this passage from The Windsor and Eton Express 28th January 1837


Windsor Police

On Thursday four men, named Richard Green, George Green, John Wilson, and John Raygon; were bought before the Magistrates, charged with stealing two coppers, the property of Mr.Bedborough, from some of his houses in South-place. The coppers were stolen on Monday night, and from some circumstances of strong suspicion against the prisoners they were apprehended on Tuesday. Upon these circumstances being stated, the prisoners were remanded for further examination on Monday next. From some private information which was obtained, Captain Thomson, after the men had been remanded, granted a search warrant to Copas, the Clewer Constable, who proceeded to the premises of an old woman, named Green, a relative of two of the prisoners, residing in Clewer fields, and succeeded in discovering the two stolen coppers buried in the garden attached to her house. On Monday the property will be forthcoming , and the old woman herself will be brought forward.
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~dutillieul/ZWindsorEtonExpress/28thJanuary1837.html

I should like to find a posotive or negative linkage. Any help much appreciated.


I should also like to be able to know more about Leonard's  family who were:

Percy b.1896
George Henery (sp?) b. 1895
Eva 1893
Walley 1880
Ernest b. 1876
George b. 1874
Ada b.1873
An uncle told me that his aunt Ada used run tea rooms or a tea shop in Eton Hight Street 'about 5 doors down from Windsor bridge'.
How can I find out more?
Thomas James b.1872 Baptised at Clewer.
The same uncle told me that Thomas used to own a lot of property in Windsor 'about ten or twenty houses'. Including some pubs. I know for a fact that he had The Coach and Horses in Oxford Road Windsor and that in the pub was still being run by Mrs Lucy Kirtland  before it was demolished in 1967. http://www.thamesweb.co.uk/windsor/windsorhistory/Oxford%20Road/1950-1965%20OxfordRoad.html
I am not sure if this Lucy was the wife or daughter of Thomas and really would most welcome further information on him. My uncle described him as 'a most interesting character, lets just say that you would not want to be on the wrong side of him' Unfortunately, I am not in possession of the picture of his uncle that in itself tells just that story. Apparently Tommy moved to London and opened pubs or clubs there.

The passage below from  http://www.thamesweb.co.uk/pubs/windsorpubs.html gives one of the flavour of Windsor before it was gentrified.
'It seems that in 1836, a Mr John Gibbs, landlord of The Coach and Horses public house, was prosecuted for 'running a disorderly house'. This establishment does not appear to get a mention ten years later. George Street also appears to get a regular mention in the Magistrates Courts transcripts. The Spread Eagle, The Rose and Crown, The Blue Anchor and The Prince George as well as a brothel and beer shop known as Wheelers get regular mentions. In 1849, The Spread Eagle's licence was transferred to The Bachelors Arms in Victoria Street, just prior to George Street's demolition. In Clewer Fields, William Austin's beer shop was the home to five girls who provided the census taker with enough information to indicate their profession was prostitution. Many were known only by their nicknames such as Fat Ellen, Black Hannah, Wraysbury Hannah, Biddy, Snook, Spital Bounce or the Sergeant Major. I have strayed off the point of this work but it is of note in order to capture these times in the history of Windsor'.

Any more relevant information please?




Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Spidermonkey on Tuesday 22 May 12 13:47 BST (UK)
Do you have Leonard and Ethel's marriage cert? (dec qtr 1914, Maidenhead 2c 1034)  If so, does it give Ethel's father's name?
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Spidermonkey on Tuesday 22 May 12 14:00 BST (UK)
Having difficulty find the right Ethel on the censuses - there is an Ethel Green in Clewer on the 1911 census, but she was not born in Winkfield.

Also there seems to be a bit of a mystery with the parents of the 1911 Ethel.  WIll carry on digging!
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Spidermonkey on Tuesday 22 May 12 14:06 BST (UK)
Ok, something odd going on (if you have looked at the 1911 census entry, you will know why I picked up on this marriage!).

In 1904, at the parish church of Emmanuel in Paddington, Richard Redrup (38, bachelor) married Mary Ethel Tomkins (38, widow). 

Both residing at 89 Watterton Road

Groom's father was Thomas Redrup, baker, deceased
Bride's father was George James Russel, farmer, deceased

Witnesses: Michael Mark Coleman and Ethel Elizabeth Green  :-\
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Spidermonkey on Tuesday 22 May 12 14:16 BST (UK)
Possible for 1891 census:
18 Brittania Place, Battersea

Henry Green  Head  Mar  27  Horse keeper  bn Shrops, Oswestry
Mary Ethel Green  Wife  Mar  26  bn Berks, Windsor
Elizabeth Ethel Green  Dau  1  bn Berks, SLough
Elizabeth Russell  mother in law  wid  62  Living on own means  bn Berks Windsor
Albert Harry Russell  son in law  single  28  carman  bn Berks, Windsor
RG12; Piece: 435; Folio: 83; Page: 28
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Spidermonkey on Tuesday 22 May 12 15:13 BST (UK)
Henry Green married Mary Ethel Russell in Mar qtr 1889 Windsor 2c 579
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Spidermonkey on Tuesday 22 May 12 15:32 BST (UK)
It looks as if the marriage to Richard Redrup was bigamous - certainly on his side becase I think that he was married already to an Ada, who doesn't appear to die until 1940!

There is a marriage between Mary Ethel Green and Austin Herbert Tomkins in Wolverhampton 1900, and a death of Austin Herbert Tomkins in Windsor in 1904 (2c 314)


Edited to amend spelling
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Spidermonkey on Tuesday 22 May 12 15:54 BST (UK)
Austin in a corporal at the army, and in 1901 Austin and Mary are at the garrison in Colchester with 11 yr old daugher Elizabeth, bn in Stoke Poges. RG13; Piece: 1707; Folio: 127; Page: 24
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Spidermonkey on Tuesday 22 May 12 16:08 BST (UK)
His wife Ethel Elizabeth Nee Green was born at Winkfield Berkshire in Dec. 1889 and died at   Winkfield in 1967 having spent all of her life in and around Windsor. Apparently she delivered milk from a horse and cart there when she was about 14.


 ;D

Except when she was in London (1891), Wolverhampton (1900), and Colchester (1901)
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Spidermonkey on Tuesday 22 May 12 16:11 BST (UK)
I should also like to be able to know more about Leonard's  family who were:

Percy b.1896
George Henery (sp?) b. 1895
Eva 1893
Walley 1880
Ernest b. 1876
George b. 1874
Ada b.1873
An uncle told me that aunt Ada used run tea rooms or a tea shop in Eton Hight Street 'about 5 doors down from Windsor bridge'. How can I find out more?
Thomas James b.1872 Baptised at Clewer.

Just bringing this forward
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Spidermonkey on Tuesday 22 May 12 16:19 BST (UK)
Looking at the 1911 index, Wally, Eva and Leonard are living together in (New) Windsor.

Wally then marries in 1914 in Christchurch, Hampshire (not going to mention names etc) and it looks as if he and his wife have 2 daughters (1915 and 1921).

According to a tree on ancestry (which also has a photo) Eva married in Canada, returning to the UK in 1914 and having 5 children

Ada Edith Kirtland married James Edwards on 20th Dec 1903 at St Martins Church, West Drayton (cert on Ancestry)

Ernest Kirtland married Annie Owen on Feb 23 1899 at Walworth All Saints (cert on ancestry)
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Nifty1 on Tuesday 22 May 12 23:01 BST (UK)
Thanks for your time Spidermonkey.
Re Marriage cert. No I don't have a copy

Firstly, I am learning not to take things for granted. I never knew too much about  EEK's  nee  G's birth or girlhood but

I said:
Ethel Elizabeth Nee Green was born at Winkfield Berkshire in Dec. 1889 and died at   Winkfield in 1967 having spent all of her life in and around Windsor. Apparently she delivered milk from a horse and cart there when she was about 14.
Talk about petards and hoisting! I took the information from my late mothers family webpage.

Spidermonkey said
Except when she was in London (1891), Wolverhampton (1900), and Colchester (1901)

I think that would seem to make more sense as (according to an uncle) her first born  son  went to London after living in Windsor. Perhaps he was in London before he came to Windsor.

RE
The bigamous marriage of Richard Redrup to Ada. Who appeared to die in1940
I think that the Ada mentioned here is not my great aunt, or, there certainly is more to this record than meets the eye as I remember visiting her in the mid or late 1950s.
Unless you mean that it was RR who died and Ada was his widow?

The other info that Spidermonkey posted has really got my mind churning. Will post more as it becomes apparent to me.

Edit. Can you inform me if Mary Ethel related to Ethel Elizabeth?

Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Spidermonkey on Wednesday 23 May 12 17:17 BST (UK)
The Ada that died in 1940 is not connected (as far as I can see!) to your family, except for being the wife of RR who bigamously married Mary Ethel.

Mary Ethel Redrup, formerly Tomkins and Green nee Russell was Ethel Elizabeth's mother (I think!)
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Nifty1 on Friday 25 May 12 04:42 BST (UK)
Spidermonkey said
Mary Ethel Redrup, formerly Tomkins and Green nee Russell was Ethel Elizabeth's mother (I think!)

I am pretty sure that it is. Now that you mention it, I have vague memories of my uncle saying somthing about the name Russell. Have just seen somthing that I did not note down (tut tut) that I think mentioned a Green who was a greengrocer or perhaps builder? who lived at Clewer. If correct, I think it would be a likley connection between the families.

I also found this:
http://www.theroyalwindsorwebsite.com/images01/Localviews/Peascod%20Street/Peascod%20Street%201861%20Clewer.pdf
taken from the 1861 census
It mentions an Elizabeth Green age 46 born at Marlow (1814/5?) who was a dressmaker. I think this could be Ethel Elizabeth's (b. 1889) grandmother.. How does that sound? Any more info on her please?

I believe that the family came from Oxfordshire and Marlow is in that direction.
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Spidermonkey on Friday 25 May 12 07:11 BST (UK)
Not sure where Henry Green and family came - on the only census we have with him so far - 1891 census - he is from Shropshire, Oswstry.  But I had a quick look at earlier censuses and couldn't immediately see a likely candidate. 

Therefore, I would not like to assume that Elizabeth Green is his mother/Ethel's gmother.
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Spidermonkey on Saturday 26 May 12 13:13 BST (UK)
Mary Ethel Russell in 1881? RG11; Piece: 1325; Folio: 21; Page: 38

and perhaps Elizabeth Russell in 1881: RG11; Piece: 1325; Folio: 65; Page: 6
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Tephra on Tuesday 03 July 12 09:22 BST (UK)



We have a new Scavenger Hunt for you.  Lesanne assures me there's more twists and turns in this one than the Isle of Man racetrack!!

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,604937.0.html

Good Luck and Good Hunting

Barbara


As usual, this Hunt will remain open for any further information which might come in.


Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Nifty1 on Wednesday 25 July 12 20:34 BST (UK)
Hi

I wonder if anybody can help me be sure that I am on the right track and be fairly sure that these individuals are born by the same mother and father

Mary Anne Marsh Baptised 24 May 1835 at Bishop-Wearmouth, Durham born to  Sarah Marsh and  Elias Marsh Born????

I am tempted to take it that Mary was a sister Robert Marsh b.1841 but am not sure as data was from seperate sources.
Robert on this thread and Mary via Family Search Parish list.
I found something that stated the father's birthplace was  Trewhitts Buildings
 Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C01825-7  Film Number: 1514544 Ref No: item 1 p 376
can anybody please inform me as to where these might be, and if any  history has been published about them concerning the time  Trewhitts Buildings were inhabited in the 19th/20th C.?

Also if Sarah Lipscomb b. 1866 at Maidenhead, is related to Emma Eliza Lipscombe b.1851 at Saint Pancras, Regents Park ?
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: stanmapstone on Monday 08 October 12 11:50 BST (UK)
Trewhitt's Buildings were in South Johnson Street, Bishopwearmouth, Sunderland http://www.durham-images.org/public/ms/m21/m21sc4.html

Stan
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: stanmapstone on Monday 08 October 12 12:08 BST (UK)
In the 1861 Census there are numbers 1 to 7 in Trewhitt's Buildings (wrongly transcribed as Tanshith in FindMyPast) RG 9; Piece: 3766; Folio: 78; Page: 62

Stan
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Tephra on Monday 08 October 12 12:24 BST (UK)



Wow Stan...... how on earth did you manage to find Trewhitt's as Tanshith??    :o :o   One very large pat on the back needed there I think      ;D ;D

Barbara
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Nifty1 on Monday 08 October 12 13:15 BST (UK)
I am really impressed as well. :)
It seemed that I looked everywhere. Obviously not ::)
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: stanmapstone on Monday 08 October 12 13:32 BST (UK)
I did not look or Trewhitt's Buildings  I looked for Johnson Street as the Ward's Northumberland & Durham Directory, 1850, has Trewhitt's Buildings in Johnson Street.

Stan
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Tephra on Tuesday 09 October 12 05:19 BST (UK)


Well found whichever way....      ;D
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Nifty1 on Tuesday 09 October 12 06:00 BST (UK)
No relation, but, I have a new term to go with 'the scatter gun approach'.
How's this for grist t' mill?

p376-378   14 January 1837
registered copy of will; Jane TREWHITT, widow of Thomas Trewhitt gentleman, widow, of Alnwick in the county of Northumberland. Died 25 October 1840
with registered copy of codicil, 5 March 1838
with registered copy of codicil, 5 March 1838, estate value £1,500

http://reed.dur.ac.uk/xtf/view?docId=ead/dpr/dpr1-2-3.xml

also
DPRI/3/1847/A139   20 December 1847
administration bond, penal sum £1,200; Thomas TREWHITT, countryman, bachelor, of Horsley Bricks in the parish of Longhorsley in the county of Northumberland. Died 25 November 1847
http://reed.dur.ac.uk/xtf/view?docId=ead/dpr/dpr1-3-8.xml

it seems the name goes back further
'The orchard of Christopher Trewhitt in West Boldon, was probably the first official burial ground for the Quakers, and in 1657'
http://www.sunderland-antiquarians.org/assets/Uploads/OPGM/WAP/SANJUL2012.pdf

http://www.sunderland-antiquarians.org/
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Nifty1 on Sunday 28 October 12 08:21 GMT (UK)
On Monday I am booked in to the archives in Durham in order to see what I can find there.
Having invested a considerable amount of time into the point of this researching (????)I am feeling somewhat jittery about what I may (or may not)uncover there. In order to try and plan an approach to take I have extracted the salient information that has been provided in this thread. In doing so it has struck me just how much there is and I would like to thank everybody who has contributed to it.
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Tephra on Sunday 28 October 12 09:40 GMT (UK)


Good Luck with the search in Durham     :D :D

Don't forget to let us know what you've found out.       ;D

Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Nifty1 on Sunday 11 November 12 08:47 GMT (UK)
The week previous to last was one of intensive research in various archives. It provided some   helpful information which I shall post on this site in the future. At present I have a great deal on my hands as the attached link may indicate.

http://www.therecord.com/news/local/article/833166--strangers-yet-brothers



Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Tephra on Sunday 11 November 12 09:54 GMT (UK)



Congratulations, Nifty...... you must be well pleased      ;D ;D

Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Nifty1 on Tuesday 04 December 12 13:23 GMT (UK)
Thankyou Tephera but The Hunt must continue :D

Would anybody please see if they can find any detais of life and family of Florence Kirtland b. circa 1869, recorded as dying at Windsor March 1903. ? (v. 2c p. 296)
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Spidermonkey on Tuesday 04 December 12 13:45 GMT (UK)
Possibility from 1901 - 6 Oxford Terrace, Clewer
George H Kirtland  Head  27  Cab driver bn Clewer
Florence Kirtland  Wife 30  bn Windsor
George E T Kirtland  son  6  bn Slough
Percy Kirtland  son  2  bn Old Windsor

RG13; Piece: 1170; Folio: 5; Page: 1
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Spidermonkey on Tuesday 04 December 12 13:49 GMT (UK)
Their marriage - George Henry Kirtland to Florence Garraway  Dec qtr 1894 Eton 3a 1043
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Spidermonkey on Tuesday 04 December 12 13:57 GMT (UK)
In 1881 with parents Edwin T and Elizabeth Garraway RG11; Piece: 1325; Folio: 29; Page: 53
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Spidermonkey on Tuesday 04 December 12 14:09 GMT (UK)
Edward Thomas Garraway mar Elizabeth Evered  Sept qtr 1861  Windsor 2c 672
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Nifty1 on Tuesday 04 December 12 14:50 GMT (UK)
Thanks Spider Monkey

Your first post would seem to be rock solid.

I have a slight problem though. I had it that George K was married to an Ada Butler b. 1902
(Unfortunately, I have no idea how I came by that idea).

It was possibly  something to having  it on good authority (albeit hearsay) that 'George was married twice - his first wife died.  2 sons from first marriage were George and Percy.
Second marrriage:
Marjorie Alice
Lionel Henry Kitchener
Arthur Isaac William
Phyllis Lorraine Nancy
and Dorothy May (disabled) and that they lived in Church Lane Windsor'

Is there any way to find out more about  Ada Butler please?


Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Spidermonkey on Tuesday 04 December 12 16:14 GMT (UK)
He definitely marries at least once more - check out the 1911 census  ;)  He may well marry again - i'll do some checking
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Spidermonkey on Tuesday 04 December 12 16:18 GMT (UK)
wife #2 - Alice Elizabeth Palmer Sept qtr 1905 Windsor 2c 991
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Spidermonkey on Tuesday 04 December 12 16:27 GMT (UK)
Alice died in 1954, George in 1956
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Nifty1 on Tuesday 04 December 12 16:50 GMT (UK)
Brilliant! Info fits a lot better.
Cheers
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Nifty1 on Friday 14 December 12 11:58 GMT (UK)
While on an all too short visit to Durham Archives recently, I had quite an interesting chat with one of the archivists there who seemed to specialise in Mining History. He put me on to the idea that Elias b. Whitehall c. 1795 would have had exposure to the fact that coal was being bought into London from the north-east at that time.
As it happens I subsequently found that an Elias Marsh was in the merchant navy about 1845 ​for 9 years.

Information was on the National Archives site. Ref to follow. (If I can find where I put it; )

I think that if it this was the same man, bycontemporary  standards at least,  at about 60 he may  probably have been a bit old to be the same  man.  His son Elias b. Bishop Wearmouth, Sunderland. 1831 would be a bit young perhaps. But at least this impli3es the period that he moved north.

Would anybody like to think as to other ways of looking for more information on  this idea (other than the official certificate route) please.
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Nifty1 on Monday 31 December 12 08:47 GMT (UK)
Could anybody please tell me if Monica Evelyn Green born at Windsor 1905 is related to
Ethel Elizabeth Kirtland  (nee Green) born at ?? in Dec 1889. Any further information greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Spidermonkey on Monday 31 December 12 09:42 GMT (UK)
It looks like Monica's parents are Arthur and Caroline Green.  Arthur born c. 1873 to William and Lucy E Green.  On 1891 census Arthur is with his family, including a sister Edith E Green  :-\ so possible aunt to Monica. 

RG12; Piece: 1013; Folio: 7; Page: 10
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Nifty1 on Monday 31 December 12 11:29 GMT (UK)

Could she be

Ethel E. Green    b. 1889    East Harling    Guiltcross, Kenninghall ?
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Spidermonkey on Monday 31 December 12 15:15 GMT (UK)
I do apologise - don't think I was very awake this morning as I read 'Ethel' on your post as 'Edith' (hence my rather pointless post!!  :()
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Nifty1 on Tuesday 15 January 13 18:10 GMT (UK)
Could anybody please shed any light on who the parents of the Sam Kirtland mentioned in this post were?
http://www.bucksfhs.org.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=766&Itemid=210.
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Nifty1 on Tuesday 26 March 13 17:50 GMT (UK)
In Reply #17 on: Thursday 17 May 12 02:08 BST (UK) »  Annette said

PS Did your father have a brother?   I note another Marsh was born Mar.1936 whose mothers maiden name was Brown (can't post full name as could still be living) and as the only Marsh/Brown marriage in Auckland was Elias/Lily wondered if this was another child (13 years between he and your father). 

Well I have recently heard from an uncle that maybe Ramsey did have a brother.

I have 'met' another cousin through another forum who is the daughter of the lady whose full name could not be mentioned because 'she could be living'. As things turned out she was. She died the week before I made contact. She was the only person who could have told anything about when my great grandfather walked to London from Durham around the time of the Jarrow Marches (not listed). That is the reason he came south and stayed. It is a shame that I wasn't able to catch her because the story of this man and his son should be told. I intend to tell it, warts and all.

If anybody else should have any details that they find online but can not post them because of forum rules please PM them to me.
Best wishes.
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Nifty1 on Thursday 01 August 13 14:22 BST (UK)
Spidermonkey re Reply #24 on: Tuesday 22 May 12 14:16 BST (UK) »

I have come across a bit of a problem and would like the comments of others as to possibilities

I an trying to identify the parents of a lady who, according to her late daughter, was born Ethel Elizabeth Green on Dec 7th 1889, Married L. Kirtland at Maidenhead in 1914 and died at Winkfield in 1967.

In the 1891 census there is a William (42, general dealer shop) and Elizabeth Green( 37)  living at 28 Oxford Rd. Windsor. Living with them are Emma (15, daughter) and William Blake (10, son) also Maude Green  (1, daughter). All born at New Windsor.

I think this is as close a match as I can find. Why should there be a discrepancy in the names though? Both of the census Spidermonkey cites and the one above ring bells of recognition.
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Spidermonkey on Thursday 01 August 13 15:03 BST (UK)
This is the info from post #24 brought forward:

Possible for 1891 census:
18 Brittania Place, Battersea

Henry Green  Head  Mar  27  Horse keeper  bn Shrops, Oswestry
Mary Ethel Green  Wife  Mar  26  bn Berks, Windsor
Elizabeth Ethel Green  Dau  1  bn Berks, SLough
Elizabeth Russell  mother in law  wid  62  Living on own means  bn Berks Windsor
Albert Harry Russell  son in law  single  28  carman  bn Berks, Windsor
RG12; Piece: 435; Folio: 83; Page: 28
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Spidermonkey on Thursday 01 August 13 15:11 BST (UK)
I think you might have to bite the bullet and buy her marriage cert - presumably you are certain of the Green/Kirtland marriage, whereas her birth might be more ambiguous.  At least with the marriage cert you will get her father's name, and the two possible sightings of EEG have different fathers.
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Nifty1 on Thursday 01 August 13 18:12 BST (UK)
I think you might have to bite the bullet and buy her marriage cert -

What! ;) and spoil my fun
I am using a resource provided by Slough library http://www.sloughhistoryonline.org.uk/ixbin/hixclient.exe?a=file&p=slough&f=generic_advancedsearch.htm and with the help of Roots Chatters I am having a great time gradually working things out. (How sad is that)
I'll post more here as I become more sure of what I think are the facts.

When one considers that the man that my Green was to marry was at one time only living a few doors from him, the chance aspect of her being the one that married Kirtland  seem somewhat skewed in one's favour.

 
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Nifty1 on Wednesday 09 October 13 07:41 BST (UK)
I hope  to visit the National Archive in the next week or so. I have few firm references from the archive's online site  that I wish to examine but want to take full advantage of the time that I shall be there to see what I can find about other members of my family shown previously in this thread -


'and the eldest elias in 1841
MARSH, Elias 45      sail cloth weaver
MARSH, Sarah 40   
MARSH, Joseph 18   
MARSH, Elizabeth 15     
MARSH, Elias 10     
MARSH, Mary  6 Durham   
MARSH, Robt  2  Durham'
One person in particular that I would like to learn about is Elias junior who I understand becomes a mariner.
1n 1851 his address was 151 Williamson St. Monkswearmouth.
 Could anybody please give me any tips on locating any records I may find at the archive which may be relevant to him (or anybody else).

Also if there might be anything on an Elais Marsh  who was awarded thhs
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/1262/30850_A001046-02374/1120822?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3frank%3d1%26new%3d1%26tid%3d55078199%26tpid%3d13919673921%26ssrc%3dpt_t55078199_p13919673921%26MSAV%3d1%26msT%3d1%26gss%3dangs-c%26gsfn%3dElias%26gsln%3dMarsh%26msbdy%3d1832%26msbpn__ftp%3dLimehouse%2bSt%2bAnne%252c%2bEngland%26msrpn__ftp%3dMonkwearmouth%2bShore%252c%2bDurham%252c%2bEngland%26msfng0%3dElias%26msfns0%3dMarsh%26msmng0%3dSarah%26msmns0%3dCourt%26cpxt%3d1%26catBucket%3drstp%26uidh%3d2rx%26cp%3d11%26msbng0%3dMary%26msbns0%3dMarsh%26msbng1%3dRobert%26msbns1%3dMarsh%26msbng2%3dJoseph%2bJohn%26msbns2%3dMarsh%26msbng3%3dJane%2bAnn%26msbns3%3dMarsh%26msbng4%3dSarah%26msbns4%3dMarsh%26msbng5%3dWilliam%26msbns5%3dMarsh%26msbng6%3dElizabeth%26msbns6%3dMarsh%26pcat%3d39%26h%3d1120822%26recoff%3d9%2b10%26db%3dMedalRolls%26indiv%3d1%26ml_rpos%3d1&ssrc=pt_t55078199_p13919673921&backlabel=ReturnRecord







Title: Re: Elias Marsh b. 1832 Mariner?
Post by: Nifty1 on Wednesday 23 October 13 12:06 BST (UK)
I recently visited the National Archive at Kew in order to follow up on family research. One of the documents that I found was in the collection http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/s/res?_q=BT+113%2F240 and was able to get a few details on page 265  that pertained to Elias Marsh, b. Sunderland 1832;
His Register Ticket No. 479625 was recorded as being issued  on the 13th Nov.1849. He was 5' 2”, of dark complexion with brown hair gray eyes (as spelled on original) when went to sea as an apprentice seaman in 1846. Apparently he could not write.
The document mostly consist of  Reported Voyages columns from 1845 – 1854.
They are not easy to represent on a forum but are filled out so as to mean as follows:
(Bold printed, Itallics pencil)
1851   
Out    Home

O (?)   S
-----------------
672   92
    6   51
-----------------
1729   92
12   57


1852   `
Out    Home

O    S
-----------------
1729   92
605(?)   12


1853   `
Out    Home

      S
-----------------
1729   92
      6


I did query the meaning of these figures while I was at the archive and ask if I might glean any more information from them trough other records. Unfortunately, I did not ask a person who gave me an what I consider to be a satisfactory answer.
I would be very grateful if anybody thinks that they can shed any more light on these details.

The only other information that I can give that may be of some significance to a person with more expertise at interpreting records than I, is the fact that the page is shared with details of three other seamen.
John Betty, b. Belfast 1832. Reported Voyages columns blank.
John Hayes, b. Southampton 27/5/1813. Reported Voyages columns filled in for 1851 and 1852
James Anellick (?) b. Bristol 7/8/1832. Reported Voyages columns blank.

With the exception of John Betty the Remarks column indicates
Kent

If anybody would like a copy for further examination, please PM me with your email and I will try and send you one.
Title: Identification of brides father
Post by: Nifty1 on Monday 21 July 14 13:10 BST (UK)
I am trying to locate the death date of a 'Henry Green (Deceased)', Profession of Trainer who is cited as being the father of Ethel Elizabeth Green, 23, (spinster) on her Certificate of Marriage to Leonard Ralph Kirtland, 28,  (Bachelor), profession of Motor Mechanic. Bride and Grooms residence at time of marriage, Nov. 1914, was 4 Altwood (?) Road; Presumably, but not necessarily,  Maidenhead.
 Assuming Henry Green was the full name, there are several likely candidates on BMD, between 1894 and 1914.


Deaths Dec 1894   (>99%)

Green
 Henry
 75
 Wallingford
 2c
181

Deaths Dec 1895   (>99%)

Green
 Henry
 79
 Wokingham
 2c
232

Deaths Mar 1898   (>99%)

Green
 Henry
 39
 Windsor
 2c
311

Deaths Sep 1899   (>99%)

Green
 Henry
 38
 Windsor
 2c
301

Deaths Jun 1903   (>99%)

Green
 Henry
 68
 Henley
 3a
469

Deaths Dec 1905   (>99%)


GREEN
 Henry
 70
 Basingstoke
 2c
131

GREEN
 Henry
 *
 Maidenhead
 2c
251


Deaths Sep 1906   (>99%)

Green
 Henry
 74
 Reading
 2c
185

Deaths Mar 1907   (>99%)

GREEN
 Henry
 67
 Oxford
 3a
687


Deaths Dec 1908   (>99%)


GREEN
 Henry
 60
 Bradfield
 2c
189


Deaths Mar 1909   (>99%)


GREEN
 Henry
 88
 Wantage
 2c
223


I would be very grateful if anyone with  the skill and resources at their disposal would try to help me decide which is the most likely.
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Spidermonkey on Monday 21 July 14 14:07 BST (UK)
This is the info from post #24 brought forward:

Possible for 1891 census:
18 Brittania Place, Battersea

Henry Green  Head  Mar  27  Horse keeper  bn Shrops, Oswestry
Mary Ethel Green  Wife  Mar  26  bn Berks, Windsor
Elizabeth Ethel Green  Dau  1  bn Berks, SLough
Elizabeth Russell  mother in law  wid  62  Living on own means  bn Berks Windsor
Albert Harry Russell  son in law  single  28  carman  bn Berks, Windsor
RG12; Piece: 435; Folio: 83; Page: 28

Is this the last time we see Henry Green?  Or have we got him on later censuses?
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Spidermonkey on Monday 21 July 14 14:17 BST (UK)
There is a marriage between Mary Ethel Green and Austin Herbert Tomkins in Wolverhampton 1900, and a death of Austin Herbert Tomkins in Windsor in 1904 (2c 314)

You might want to get the above cert, to ascertain whether Mary Ethel Green was widowed or divorced.  If widowed, you can narrow down the deaths to between 1891 and 1900.
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Spidermonkey on Monday 21 July 14 14:21 BST (UK)
There is a death for a Henry Green Sept qtr 1899, Wolverhampton 6b 392
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Nifty1 on Monday 21 July 14 15:17 BST (UK)
Thanks for bringing that forward Spidermonkey. I have been very slack in not reviewing what has already been unearthed, and also, put it  down to being under stress of having an overload of information and unable  to deal with it rationally.  I find it rather infuriating that among a large  cache of family papers and photographs that I have recently acquired, there is so much that is not straight-forward to rationalise/determine.

You ask: 'Is this the last time we see Henry Green? '

I suspect not. I possibly have a photograph of him I want to be sure if this is the case.
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Annette7 on Monday 21 July 14 16:58 BST (UK)
I believe that Henry Green died Sept.qtr.1899 Wolverhampton.   As already mentioned, Mary Ethel Green remarried to Austin Herbert Tomkins 1900 Wolverhampton.

I cannot find them in 1901!

Austin Herbert Tomkins died Mar.qtr.1904 Windsor and, as before, Mary wastes no time in marrying again.

Mary Ethel Tomkins, widow, married Richard Redrup 20/11/1904 Emmanuel, Paddington - although only 14/15 her daughter Ethel Elizabeth Green is one of the witnesses.

Mary Ethel Russell was her birth name, daughter of George James Russell, Farmer (deceased) according to the 1904 marriage certificate (she'd married Henry Green Mar.1889 Windsor).

Annette
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Nifty1 on Monday 21 July 14 20:41 BST (UK)
Ah Ha! At last.

I understand it could be anybody. The question is why should this fragment of a photograph be kept?

(Link withheld)

Please can anybody provide a fairly acurate date on the clothing worn by those in the picture or glean any other clues from it ?

On second thoughts, 

I managed to post a link that displays a photo using Picasa Drop Box. The only problem is that the link also gives access to all my other photographs and I do not wish to do that. Can anybody pease give me or link me to clear instructions as to how to display the photograph singly?

Edit
 Annette7 I seem to remembefr my uncle talking of the name Redrup. Alas not with sufficient clarity for me to really grasp the situation as it was.
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Spidermonkey on Tuesday 22 July 14 08:06 BST (UK)
It looks as if the marriage to Richard Redrup was bigamous - certainly on his side becase I think that he was married already to an Ada, who doesn't appear to die until 1940!

There is a marriage between Mary Ethel Green and Austin Herbert Tomkins in Wolverhampton 1900, and a death of Austin Herbert Tomkins in Windsor in 1904 (2c 314)

It might be worth re-reading through this thread again - during scavenger hunts, loads of information comes in which doesn't always seem to flow, but on another look you might start seeing how you family fits together.  Also, there is no point looking for answers that you already have  ;)
Title: Re: Fred Marsh
Post by: Nifty1 on Saturday 26 July 14 17:46 BST (UK)
Re The Marsh family mostly covered on the first three pages of this particular Scavenge Hunt.
I have come across a bit of a problem that I would dearly like more experiences genealogists to have a look at and inform me of what they think are  the most likely reasons for it.

I have been making enquiries into the extended family of Lily nee Brown who married Elias abt1921 in order to add more substance to my findings. My intent was to find out more about a man that Ramsay caled uncle Sid who I took to be related to Lily's family.

Much to my delight, my enquiries have encouraged members of the family to help. I have had a reply from a man who is a grandson of Lily Brown. He is adamant that he knew my father and Elias. He says that he used to visit them in Slough during WW2 and what  he has told me so far corresponds well with what I have taken for granted. Except, a few inconsistencies have become apparent.

I had always assumed that Fred was an alias adopted by Elias who was  the man who founded the business Fred Marsh & Son. Turf Accounts. It was operating in Windsor in 1963 in Goswell Road.

For a start, it seems that Elias died in 1960 I had assumed that his wife Lily had the business acumen to make the business the success it was in the early and mid 1960s. I thought that she probably became its director and her son Ramsay its principle manager owing to the rich life-style they led.

This assumption evidently has a few faults


My new found distant cousin informs me that there was a Fred Marsh and that he was thought to be an older brother of Elias. Whoever he was I am puzzled as his identity as to who  he was as he is not mentioned on any census that I have seen. 
Elias' brothers seem to have died as follows :
Robert 1957
John 1916
Joseph 1971
James W ?

 Any thoughts please?
Could Fred have  had a child of Lily's through a previous liaison or marriage ?
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Nifty1 on Monday 22 September 14 15:04 BST (UK)
Ok, something odd going on (if you have looked at the 1911 census entry, you will know why I picked up on this marriage!).

In 1904, at the parish church of Emmanuel in Paddington, Richard Redrup (38, bachelor) married Mary Ethel Tomkins (38, widow). 

Both residing at 89 Watterton Road

Groom's father was Thomas Redrup, baker, deceased
Bride's father was George James Russel, farmer, deceased

Witnesses: Michael Mark Coleman and Ethel Elizabeth Green  :-\
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Nifty1 on Saturday 07 March 15 10:53 GMT (UK)
Austin in a corporal at the army, and in 1901 Austin and Mary are at the garrison in Colchester with 11 yr old daugher Elizabeth, bn in Stoke Poges. RG13; Piece: 1707; Folio: 127; Page: 24

Who is Austin? I have located  Kirtland family photo of a corporal that is proving dificult to identify.
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Nifty1 on Saturday 07 March 15 11:05 GMT (UK)
It looks as if the marriage to Richard Redrup was bigamous - certainly on his side becase I think that he was married already to an Ada, who doesn't appear to die until 1940!

There is a marriage between Mary Ethel Green and Austin Herbert Tomkins in Wolverhampton 1900, and a death of Austin Herbert Tomkins in Windsor in 1904 (2c 314)

It might be worth re-reading through this thread again - during scavenger hunts, loads of information comes in which doesn't always seem to flow, but on another look you might start seeing how you family fits together.  Also, there is no point looking for answers that you already have  ;)

I have read this thread many times and more and more seems to be making sense. My maternal great grandmother was married three times. Before I go down any official certificate route I want to try family search offer that is on this weekend http://www.findmypast.co.uk/freeweekend  and search newspapers. Has anybody any idea which papers may carry any information on this bigamy?
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Nifty1 on Saturday 29 August 15 20:48 BST (UK)
Error
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Nifty1 on Friday 26 May 17 16:56 BST (UK)
I am posting this question on the Scavenge Hunt as it may facilitate certain refs that may assist anyone in the quest.

I am trying to discover the movements of my my grandfather Elias Marsh's younger brother  Joseph who is said by a family relation to have walked to Oxford possibly in the 1930s and if he stayed there for any length of time (until at least 1942/3). I think that he was Joseph Marsh . b. Sep 1901 Houghton le Spring  Co. Durham.
The reason that I want to know as much as possible about Joseph is because my late father Ramsay Marsh (b 1925) applied to join the RAF at Oxford in 1942. 

I want to know what he was doing before he  began his service in the spring of 1943 at the ACRC in London and after some months of going through further training in England went to Canada to train as a pilot. According to his RAF record his former occupation was given as Lorry Driver. In 1939 List  his father was living near Slough, I do not think that  Ramsay was recorded with living with him.

I think that he was either still living in Co Durham, or, he may have been staying with his uncle Joseph, that is, if he did in fact walk or travel to Oxford and stayed there.


I notice that there was a birth of a Joseph (who might be a his son) in 1922

Marsh   Joseph W   Broom Durham 10a  671

And also a Joseph Marsh divorce about 1935 but I am afraid that I have lost the page and cannot retrieve it'
and

Deaths MAR 1967 Joseph Marsh 61, Dudly, 9b 240 and
June, 1967. Joseph Marsh 63, Dudley 9b 172.

I would be very grateful if any one can provide help or information
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: mowsehowse on Saturday 27 May 17 11:00 BST (UK)
A couple of observations for background information Nifty1......

In the early pages of this thread, you asked why the name "Lily" was SO popular?
  I would suggest it may have been due to the fame of the affair of a very beautiful actress, known as the Jersey Lily with Edward, Prince of Wales from 1877 to 1880.  It seems that although he was married with 6 children at the time, she became his "semi-official" mistress, and he even had her presented to HMQ Victoria.  :o

Also, you mention evidence of prostitution in Windsor, "before it became gentrified"......
Having delved into many aspects of social history in the UK, it seems to me that many of the "Gentry", who had plenty of spare money continually indulged in excesses, and I have read there was a published manual grading the standards of available brothels and prostitutes in London. 
I would imagine that, for some, the proximity of Windsor to London possibly allowed profligacy to escape gossip.
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Nifty1 on Wednesday 14 June 17 14:54 BST (UK)
Please can anyone provide additional info i.e. parents, occupation  or  address about Harriet Kirtland b 1812 d. 1864 Faringdon
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: StevieSteve on Wednesday 14 June 17 17:33 BST (UK)
Harriet Beal (father Anthony deceased) m George Kirtland at Witney 19 May 1850 and they're on the Census at Faringdon in 1861
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Nifty1 on Wednesday 14 June 17 19:44 BST (UK)
Thanks for that Stevie. Is there any sign of George's occupation? I must say, I think it was very inconsiderate of our forebearers to give all there children the same names through the Generations ;)
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: StevieSteve on Wednesday 14 June 17 21:14 BST (UK)
Hi, yes, he was a tailor and his father George (deceased) was a servant

Anthony Beal was also deceased and looks like something like a Fuller which if correct is described online as

One who "fulls" cloth; the process of cleaning (removing the natural oils and lanolin) wool in preparation for spinning and weaving, using fuller's earth.
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Nifty1 on Wednesday 20 December 17 12:05 GMT (UK)
Can anyone please tell me anything more about Albert Harry Russel, b. Windsor, 1863 who was a Carman. (on page 3)
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Nifty1 on Wednesday 20 December 17 14:09 GMT (UK)
Here is a cut and paste of the relevant post
Possible for 1891 census:
18 Brittania Place, Battersea

Henry Green  Head  Mar  27  Horse keeper  bn Shrops, Oswestry
Mary Ethel Green  Wife  Mar  26  bn Berks, Windsor
Elizabeth Ethel Green  Dau  1  bn Berks, SLough
Elizabeth Russell  mother in law  wid  62  Living on own means  bn Berks Windsor
Albert Harry Russell  son in law  single  28  carman  bn Berks, Windsor
RG12; Piece: 435; Folio: 83; Page: 28

I have searched BMD but can find no evidence of him.
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: LizzieL on Wednesday 20 December 17 15:21 GMT (UK)
Here is a cut and paste of the relevant post
Possible for 1891 census:
18 Brittania Place, Battersea

Henry Green  Head  Mar  27  Horse keeper  bn Shrops, Oswestry
Mary Ethel Green  Wife  Mar  26  bn Berks, Windsor
Elizabeth Ethel Green  Dau  1  bn Berks, SLough
Elizabeth Russell  mother in law  wid  62  Living on own means  bn Berks Windsor
Albert Harry Russell  son in law  single  28  carman  bn Berks, Windsor
RG12; Piece: 435; Folio: 83; Page: 28

I have searched BMD but can find no evidence of him.

By the transcription of this record on Ancestry someone has made the comment that Albert Harry should be Herbert Harry they say the original record was incorrect. Might be worth looking for a Herbert.
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: LizzieL on Wednesday 20 December 17 15:24 GMT (UK)
1881 has Russell family with a Herbert H but wrong age

RG11 Piece number 1325 Folio 65 Page 6
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Nifty1 on Wednesday 20 December 17 15:45 GMT (UK)
Thanks for that Lizziel
My sub has lapsed. PLease can you give any details? It could be that I have transcribed is duff info, that is why I am trying to review what info I have on my tree.

I missed the bit about Albert and Harry mix-up. I will get back to it asap. *<:-)
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: LizzieL on Wednesday 20 December 17 15:57 GMT (UK)
Thanks for that Liziel
My sub has lapsed. PLease can you give any details? It could be that I have transcribed is duff info, that is why I am trying to review what info I have on my tree.

I missed the bit about Albert and Harry mix-up. I will get back to it asap. *<:-)

Its AlBERT and HerBERT that seem to have got confused, could simply be that the enumerator read Herbert on householder form, but accidentally wrote Albert on the enumerator's form.

transcript of 1881 also on familysearch

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27Z-3141


Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: LizzieL on Wednesday 20 December 17 15:58 GMT (UK)
looks like Herbert Harry's birth reg
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2XQW-K7R

added from gro website mmn Cox
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: polarbear on Wednesday 20 December 17 17:40 GMT (UK)
GRO has Mary Ethel with mmn Cox as well.

This looks like the family in 1871 census.....as Rupell, corrected to Russell by another party. RG10; Piece 1302; Folio 34; Page 9

George Head 45 b. Berks Dedworth
Elizabeth 42 b. Berks Windsor
George 14
Charles 12
William 9
Frederick Edward 7
Mary Ethel 5
Herbert 3

All children b. Berks Dedworth

PB

Added: marriage of George Russell and Elizabeth Cox Dec qtr 1848 Windsor RD
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: polarbear on Wednesday 20 December 17 18:08 GMT (UK)
And....

This looks like the same family in the 1861 census. RG9; Piece 761; Folio 127; Page 4

George Russell 34
Elizabeth 32
Ann 9
Eliza 7
George 5
Charles 2

Birthplace here for George Sr is Berks Windsor and for the rest Berks Dedworth.

You might check if your local public library subscribes to Ancestry Library Edition. This would give you access to most records including images. However, there is no access to trees, if I remember correctly.

PB
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Nifty1 on Friday 22 December 17 20:02 GMT (UK)
Can anybody please confirm the identity of these two deaths
Green, Henry, 39,  Windsor. 2c 311

Deaths Sep 1899   (>99%)

Green,  Henry,  38,  Windsor,  2c 301Of

I am pretty sure that one of them was living with Mary nee Russel and Baby Elizabeth at Battersea in 1901 and would like to know more about the other
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: polarbear on Friday 22 December 17 20:41 GMT (UK)
Hi there  :).

Might be a bit difficult to be living with Mary and Elizabeth in 1901 if one is deceased?

Can you give more info about Mary? Is her last name Green also? Year of birth and place? Same for little Elizabeth?

PB
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Spidermonkey on Friday 22 December 17 21:08 GMT (UK)
Can anybody please confirm the identity of these two deaths
Green, Henry, 39,  Windsor. 2c 311

Deaths Sep 1899   (>99%)

Green,  Henry,  38,  Windsor,  2c 301Of

I am pretty sure that one of them was living with Mary nee Russel and Baby Elizabeth at Battersea in 1901 and would like to know more about the other

Were Mary and Elizabeth aware that they had a ghost living with them?
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Spidermonkey on Friday 22 December 17 21:39 GMT (UK)
Do you mean 1891? (Henry, Mary and Elizabeth in Battersea)

Here is a cut and paste of the relevant post
Possible for 1891 census:
18 Brittania Place, Battersea

Henry Green  Head  Mar  27  Horse keeper  bn Shrops, Oswestry
Mary Ethel Green  Wife  Mar  26  bn Berks, Windsor
Elizabeth Ethel Green  Dau  1  bn Berks, SLough
Elizabeth Russell  mother in law  wid  62  Living on own means  bn Berks Windsor
Albert Harry Russell  son in law  single  28  carman  bn Berks, Windsor
RG12; Piece: 435; Folio: 83; Page: 28

I have searched BMD but can find no evidence of him.

By the transcription of this record on Ancestry someone has made the comment that Albert Harry should be Herbert Harry they say the original record was incorrect. Might be worth looking for a Herbert.

If so, we have already suggested that you try this death cert to kill him off:

Sep 1899: Green    Henry    35    Wolverhampton    6b   392
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Nifty1 on Saturday 23 December 17 02:44 GMT (UK)
Thanks for your help. :)

GH Wolverhampton would fit well with what I have got. I thought that I had my tree looking pretty smart. That was until I spilled some coffee on the keyboard of my computer. Though looking on the bright side, the stuff that I have makes more sense.  The problem might be due to my sloppy note taking or faulty maths.
Happy Christmas everybody.
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Nifty1 on Saturday 23 December 17 10:56 GMT (UK)
How can I find if William Kirtland was born about 1806 had any siblings?
He is conected with somebody who was born at Charlton on Otmoor 1796ish.
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Nifty1 on Saturday 13 February 21 11:43 GMT (UK)
Thanks to another poster, I have learned that an ancestor of Rab C. links both of my mother’s husbands to The Talk of the Town

http://www.britishmusichallsociety.com/robertnesbitt.pdf

Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Nifty1 on Saturday 23 October 21 09:52 BST (UK)
Spidermonkey said
Mary Ethel Redrup, formerly Tomkins and Green nee Russell was Ethel Elizabeth's mother (I think!)


Was married into the Redrup’s
That is probably one of the reasons that I heard so much about pubs when I was an infant.

I am trying to work out who Emma Redrup was before she married, can anybody help please

George Redrup
Of the Royal Brewery, Windsor



Died 27/ 2/96 aged 61
Widow Emma



At Park Street Windsor

Possible connections-

1866 Births June
REDRUP   Richard      Windsor   2c   401   

1867 births
REDRUP   Richard William      Windsor   2c   45

1872 Deaths March
REDRUP   George   38   Windsor   2c   28


1893 births Dec.
Redrup   George Henry      Windsor   2c   417
 1928 Deaths March
Redrup   Richard R   62   Wycombe   3a   123

Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: mckha489 on Saturday 23 October 21 10:13 BST (UK)
REDRUP, MARY  ANN     HILL 
GRO Reference: 1868  J Quarter in WINDSOR  Volume 02C  Page 419

REDRUP, RICHARD       HILL 
GRO Reference: 1866  J Quarter in WINDSOR  Volume 02C  Page 401

REDRUP, ABEL       HILL 
GRO Reference: 1869  D Quarter in WINDSOR  Volume 02C  Page 427

Cannot see Richard William on GRO. Richard 1866 is indexed. As female.

Added Richard William is 1887 not 1867.


REDRUP, RICHARD  WILLIAM     VICKERS 
GRO Reference: 1887  S Quarter in WINDSOR  Volume 02C  Page 457


 
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: mckha489 on Saturday 23 October 21 10:28 BST (UK)
But 1871 census has in New Windsor

George Redrup, 27 brewer
Emma. 26 his wife
And wife’s sister unmarried age 34. Helen BiRNEY (as transcribed) could be Bony or similar


Added. A subscriber has posted a correction to BOUG
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Nifty1 on Saturday 23 October 21 10:34 BST (UK)
Thanks for that mckha

This is what lead me to asking the question

http://www.sloughhistoryonline.org.uk/ixbin/hixclient.exe?a=query&p=slough&f=generic_objectrecord_postsearch.htm&_IXFIRST_=1&_IXMAXHITS_=1&m=advanced_sform&tomonth=12&tc1=e&fromday=1&frommonth=01&toyear=1930&name=Redrup&fromyear=1880&today=30&partner=slough&s=aU93P3RVgPO

Apparently, the name Kirtland is associated with an address in Park Street.
Probably a pub called The Black Horse.

Mary Kirtland, b. abt. 1866 was married three times, once to a Richard Redrup who was a brewers dreyman and I thought there was probably some connection.

Edit Can I take it that Emma’s maiden name was Boug ?
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: mckha489 on Saturday 23 October 21 10:40 BST (UK)
Here’s Ellen Boug with a younger George Redrup in 1881

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27Z-RVQP

Cannot find a Boug / Redrup marriage though

Added, Birth further away than expected

REDRUP, GEORGE  BOUG     BOUG 
GRO Reference: 1859  J Quarter in LOUGHBOROUGH  Volume 07A  Page 115
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: mckha489 on Saturday 23 October 21 10:48 BST (UK)

Edit Can I take it that Emma’s maiden name was Boug ?

Yes, I think so. I would be happier if I could see the marriage

Added

Found it

Marriages Jun 1858   (>99%)
Bong    Emma        Amersham    3a   443    
Garner    Thomas        Amersham    3a   443    
Redrup    George        Amersham    3a   443   
Townes    Mary Maria        Amersham    3a   443   
Towns    Mary Maria        Amersham    3a   443
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Nifty1 on Saturday 23 October 21 11:04 BST (UK)
Did George have any brothers called Richard I wonder?

Hang on, I think I may already have that info but have not recorded it
Naughty me.

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=744537.msg5918023#msg5918023
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Nifty1 on Tuesday 09 November 21 08:20 GMT (UK)
i did see the other marsh birth in auckland but given the long time difference i thought it unlikely but you never know. the only way to be sure would be to buy the birth cert. likewise the only way to be sure about lily brown would be to buy the marriage cert giving age, fathers name and occupation etc.

When Lily Brown was born on 9th Janurary 1901 in Sunderland, Durham, England, her father, William, a glassblower, was 24, and her mother, Ann, was 22. She married Elias Mackintosh Marsh in March 1921 in Auckland, County Durham.They had two children. The first called Ramsay Who was born at Auckland in December 1923.
Lily had second baby Antony Conceived at Auckland, 1936, but born at Slough died after being knocked down by a car on the Bath Road at Salt Hill Park, Slough in 1943
Lily died in November 1990 in Wokingham, Berkshire, England, at the age of 89.

I am not sure about lily’s father.
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: polarbear on Tuesday 09 November 21 20:50 GMT (UK)
Nifty1, I was wondering if you had looked for Lily and Elias in the 1939 Register to see what Lily has for her birthdate? I don't believe we are allowed to give the info here. If I have found the correct death registration in the GRO website it has a birth year of 1903?

PB
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Nifty1 on Tuesday 09 November 21 21:43 GMT (UK)
Thanks for that Polar bear.

I have

Lily Brown was born on 9th Janurary 1901 in Sunderland, Durham, England, her father, William, a glassblower, was 24, and her mother, Ann, was 22. She married Elias Mackintosh Marsh in March 1921 in Auckland, County Durham.They had two children. The first called Ramsay Who was born at Auckland in December 1923.
Lily had second baby Antony, probably conceived at ArthurbStreet, Crook, Auckland, 1936, but born at Slough died after being knocked down by a car on the Bath Road at Salt Hill Park, Slough in 1943
Lily died in November 1990 in Wokingham, Berkshire, England, at the age of 89.

I am not 100% on the father being a glass blower though.

I will reevaluate the 1903 date ASAP.

I seem to remember finding a Marsh who lived at 50 ? London Road Wokingham in 1950/60s and wondering if that was Elias or James who was at Cippenham in 1939. I think that Elias got to Slough abt 1936/7. I am a bit tounge in cheek about the wedding cake icing decorator, though. He was a coal mimer who took bets on dogs in Crook. He probably headed for Slough because of the Greyhound track and proximity to race courses.
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: polarbear on Tuesday 09 November 21 22:47 GMT (UK)
Did you ever get the marriage cert for Lily and Elias to ascertain who Lily's father was and what he did for a living? How do you know her parents are William and Ann? And that she was born in Sunderland?

There seems to be more than one Lily in the 1911 census with a father William, mother Ann or Mary Ann if I remember correctly. One age 10 (b. 1901 Sunderland, Durham), one age 8 (b. 1903 Chester, Durham).

PB
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Nifty1 on Wednesday 10 November 21 07:39 GMT (UK)
No. Unfortunately I do not have the cert.
I remember the problem of   there being two possibilities but have forgotten what swayed me to go with what I posted.I had a facsimile of a family photo that I will try and recover that has names written on the back. It may be possible to reassess the situation then.
Title: Re: Nifty1 Scavenger Hunt.... Everyone Welcome To Join In
Post by: Nifty1 on Monday 15 November 21 14:33 GMT (UK)
I am wondering if No. 14873 Pte W. Lipscombe b. 1888 Boyne Hill Maidenhead and
With the Royal Berkshires d. Flanders 1915 has any connection with
Emma Lipscomb b. 1849, Cookham d. Windsor 1917 and do not have the means to find out.
Can anybody help me please ?