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Independent Islands => Isle of Man => Isle of Man Lookup Requests => Topic started by: BAC3 on Wednesday 16 May 12 15:59 BST (UK)
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Hello,
This is a confusing piece of my PhD research as a mature Postgraduate about Parkhurst Prison 1838-1864 and the question of reforming juvenile offenders. The following are all possible pieces of Caesar CAIN's life history and hopefully someone can guide me to the correct solution:
Born: Peel, Isle of Man, 1845/1847
Parents: William CAIN and Ann CAIN (nee Christian)
Criminal profile: (a) 03/07/1857 2 months imprisonment with hard
labour;
(b): 31/05/1860 10 years transportation, Millbank
Prison, then transferred to Parkhurst Prison
06/08/1860 and then transferred to Dartmoor
Prison 30/03/1864;
(c): 22/07/1880 committed for stealing a cotton
umbrella by High Bailiff of Douglas, but sentence
unknown.
Marriage: Johan GORDON in Caithness, Scotland, date unknown and 4
children, Cesar (1884), Elizabeth (1886), Catherine (1889)
and Jessie (1892).
Date of Death: Not known.
I would be grateful for any suggestions.
Regards
Tony Cocks
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Hi Tony
Just looking at the 1871 census, the Caesar Cain born in Peel was born about 1841/2 and married an Ellen.
Then there is Caesar Cain Christian christened 16 Feb 1845 German, IoM, parents William Cain/Anne Christian. He is on the 1881 census under Caesar Cain, described as a married lodger (but no sign of his wife), a fisherman, born 1845 German, Isle of Wight.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XQ4J-D2C
On the 1851 census he is in German with the Kennady family as their grandson, as Cesar Christian
I hope this helps
Hugs
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On the 1851 census he is in German with the Kennady family as their grandson, as Cesar Christian
Or maybe this?
Reference HO107, Piece 2523, Folio 156, Page 23
Shore Road, Peel
Cain, William Head M 58 Tailor b Peel
Cain, Ann Wife F 53 b Patrick
Cain, Catharine Daughter F 16 b Patrick
Cain, Elizabeth Daughter F 13 b Peel
Cain, John Son M 11 b Peel
Cain, Caesar/Cosar Son M 6 b Peel
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??? So how did you find that family, there's not a hint on my searches for William, Ann or Caesar, that is just so frustrating :(
Sorry Tony looks like the waters are getting muddier, I think I'll stop trying to help :)
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But just this:
They are on the 1891 census but by 1901 Johan is a widow. Access to Scotland death registers anyone please?
Tks :D
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??? So how did you find that family, there's not a hint on my searches for William, Ann or Caesar, that is just so frustrating :(
On this occassion - Ancestry!
Sometimes FindMyPast is more helpful ;D
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accurate indices to IoM censuses were done by late Brian Lawson and are on www.iomfhs.im website
I presume you have been in contact with Manx Museum library@mnh.gov.im as thery hold police + court records for this period eg MS 09845/11/9/120 covers the burglary for which he was sentenced to transportation
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Thank you all for your help. I am very grateful indeed for the "leads".
From my point of view the crucial exercise will be to explain the period between 1880, his third trial, 1881 where he appears to be married and 1891/1901 where the Scottish connection was established. I will need to contact the Manx Museum and ask them to confirm what sentence he received at his third trial which may have only been for several months, allowing him to be a Lodger at the 1881 Census which Hugs uncovered.
I did warn at the outset Caesar CAIN's case was confusing!!
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I presume you are certain that the cotton umbrella stealing Caesar Cain is the same as the fisherman who appears to be lodging with several other fisherman in Michael St Peel in 1881 - probably waiting for start of Mackerel fishing - a strange item for him to steal (unless drunk)
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No I am not certain......it is a case of trying to establish a link.
His theft of an umbrella, which tied him into the the two earlier crimes, was reported by "The Isle of Man Times and General Advertiser" published on 06/11/1880 and establishes his credentials as being the ex-Parkhurst Prison inmate.
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Hello,
I have been trying to rationalise all the information people have kindly provided, including input from California which does add a new dimension as to his marriage. However, IGI (the old version) has just thrown a spanner in the works contradicting details I had accepted for his birth and parentage:
Caesar CAIN:
Birth: 16 Fen 1845, Cronk Y Vodder, Isle of Man
Burial: 08 Oct 1867
Parents: William CAIN and Ann CHRISTIAN.
Earlier Reference HO107, Piece 2523, Folio 156, Page 23 was offered as a possibility to fit Cesar CAIN, but "Burial 08 Oct 1867" rather denies that suggestion unless Willian CAIN and Ann CHRISTIAN were not unique as a couple and there were others.
The Cesar CAIN I am researching was alive in 1867, probably still in Dartmoor Prison, and indeed further re-offended in 1880........and, now, I need to find new parents!!!
For the moment,
BAC3
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Cronk-y-Voddy is 7km from Peel, and lies on the TT circuit.
I don't think someone born Cronk-y-Voddy would put Peel down as their place of birth - at least not in a Manx census?! ;D
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you have I think confused the Caesar Cain s/o Jon Cain + Eleanor KINNEY / KENNA / KENNISH they farmed at Money(Moaney) Voar(mooar) which is just down the road from Cronk-y-voddy - Caesar was 8 in 51 and 18 in 61 census all on the farm. The burial in German indicates age 25 bur 28 Oct 1867 which fits - so back to planA as the Peel born Caesar is not found in 61
Caesar is quite a common Manx name
ETA believe nothing that is linked to an entry on the IGI - usually if not total invention then a misreading/misinterpretation of data - likewise for any patron submitted item on the old IGI especially if had the red flag 'about' near any date
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Hi,
I've also got Caesar Cain as a distant relative in my tree and have the following information for him:
Parents: William James Cain & Ann Christian
Born: c 1845 in Peel, Isle of Man
The 1851 census has him living in Shore Road, Peel with his parents and siblings Catherine (16), Elizabeth (13) & John (11).
I haven't located him on the 1861 census but in 1871 he is living at 7 Queen Street, Peel and is a Shoemaker living with his mum who is now a widow.
In the 1881 he shows up in the census aboard the 'Roving Swan', which is a fishing vessel in Peel. He still has his occupation though as a shoemaker!
I then have looked him up on Scotlandspeople and he gets married on 8th September in Aberdeen to Johan(na) Gordon and they then can be found in Wick where they have five Children. They are:
Cesar b. 1882 d. 1892
George b. 1886
Elizabeth A. b 1886
Catherine Banks b. 1889
Jessie b. 1892
By 1901, his wife is showing as the Head of the household and when Jessie gets married in 1920 he is stated as deceased but I have been unable to find a burial as yet.
I'd be very interested to learn whatever you have picked up about him to with his misdemeanours.
Hope that's of some help.
Peter
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Hello Peter,
I have sent you a PM confirming my email address.......possibly you will respond and I can then send you my narrative for Cesar CAIN.
Tony