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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Westmorland => Topic started by: Washy on Sunday 20 May 12 22:31 BST (UK)
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Hi Everyone can I please have details on the family 1851/41. Have 61/71/81 thankyou.
1861 census
Thomas KITCHING Head U 42 Gas Works Labourer Westmorland - Kirkland
Ann FAWCETT 43 House Keeper Westmorland - Kirkland
John FAWCETT 22 Agricultural Labourer Westmorland - Kirkland
Mary FAWCETT 16 Woollen Mill Worker Westmorland - Kirkland
Sarah FAWCETT 14 Scholar Westmorland - Kirkland
Daniel FAWCETT 9 Idiotic (Crossed Out) Westmorland - Kirkland
If anyone could see if parents alive on 1891 census would be brill.
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Are they a "couple" and are those their children? ???
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I believe so never married but on some census says sons daughters
Son William lead me a merry dance all day down as William Fawcett Kitchen on 1881 census lol.
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Hi Washy, in 1851 they appear to be all sons/daughters:-
1851 Census
Thomas KITCHEN 31 Lab at Gas Works
Ann 32
John 12
Mary 6
Sarah 4
Thomas 1
Residing at Capper Lane, Kendal
Census Ref HO107/2442/392/8
Keyboard86
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I see in 1881 wife is crossed out in favour of housekeeper!
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Thankyou taken me all day to find them lol. :)
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Hi Washy,could this be him in 1841 in Kendal
Ann Metcalf 15
Thomas Kitchen 22 ag lab
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Hi again 1841 Census:-
Thomas KITCHIN 22 occ Ag Lab is with a Spedding family at Bridge Row. Heversham
Census Ref HO107/1159/ 14/30/ 3
Their is an Ann Fawcett aged 26 with a William Fawcett aged 32 at Abba, Kirkby Lonsdale, Census Ref HO107/1161/ 12/14/ 3, cannot locate a John b c 1839 with her though?
Keyboard86
;D Same one as above!
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I'm not sure would have expected him to be with Ann & son John
Sorry Keyboard but are Ann & children down as Kitchen on 51 census?
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Thankyou keyboard wondered if Ann had been married as she says married on some census even though Thomas says unmarried. Wonder where John is though ??? Never says widow though lol
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So the children ended up with the name Fawcett which was their mums married name? Although father was Kitchen
They must be some birth certificates ;D
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So the children ended up with the name Fawcett which was their mums married name? Although father was Kitchen
They must be some birth certificates ;D
Hi Washy, that William and Ann pairing in 1841 are still together in 1851, they must have only just got married c 1841 as 1st child b c 1842.
Keyboard86
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Thank goodness for that lol. ;D
Sorry to ask again but Fawcett or Kitchen for Ann & children 51 census.
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Thank goodness for that lol. ;D
Sorry to ask again but Fawcett or Kitchen for Ann & children 51 census.
As I stated they are all shown as Kitchen?!
Keyboard86
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Sorry didn't understand :-[
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Hi Washy, these look to be the deaths of Thomas and Ann:-
Thomas Kitchen June 1890 Kendal 10b 459 aged 71
Ann Fawcett Sept 1890 Kendal 10b 427 aged 74
Keyboard86
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Wow, all them years together never married & died with in a few months of each other.
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If ever there was a need to get a birth certificate for one of the children this has to be it!
Even though they were together all that time I don't think it safe to assume all the children were his.
On the census I looked at it said daughters of housekeeper and even granddaughters of housekeeper (even tho one of them is called Kitchen?!) inferring she belonged to her alone.
Where did the granddaughter called Kitchen come from I wonder. 1881 Mary Eleanor Kitchen 11.
Difficult with so many variations I know. Maybe she was married to a Mr F who left her (or she him) so she wasn't free to marry Mr K.
An interesting one for sure :D
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Hi Milliepede
This really is a good one, isn't it ;D
I've been following the son of William, Thomas who 16 in 1901 is with his aunt Margaret Kitching 47, who looks like she is the daughter Margaret Fawcett. On the same page is his family, father down as
William K Fawcett.
1901 William K Fawcett
1881 William Fawcett Kitchen
1871 William Fawcett
1861 William Fawcett
1851 William Fawcett
Think he was reg William Fawcett 1857 Kendal.
The Grandaughter you mention has also been know as Fawcett & Kitchen, Kitchen would inply, his grandaughter not hers lol. Think she maybe Sarah's daughter, who later is still with family but Sarah Mitchell with daughter Ann but no sign of husband lol.
I believe they are his children & have used, incorporated his name.
I think the person who took the census was as confused as me ;D ;D
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It's a cracker ;D
I think you're probably right now that they were the parents seeing as the children intermingle the surnames as and when.
I noticed on one of the census there was a Mitchell family next door. Maybe Sarah's future husband was among them!
There is a marriage Kendal 1873 Sarah Fawcett Kitching and Christopher Frank Mitchell.
Yes have found a baptism for Mary Eleanor 17 April 1870 - mother Sarah Kitchen.
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Nice to know abt Sarah, I was wondering if she actually got married.
Marriage for William. 1880 Kendal William Fawcett Kitching, Mary Troughton
It's what I like abt doing famly trees ;D, your like a detective & when you find out your right such a thrill lol.
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Hi Washy, what is it with your ancestors! This is the 1891 Census showing Sarah Mitchell, it is the "Nephew" Joseph H Philipson aged 22 that I have tracked back, but cannot at present reason out how he has the nephew relationship to Sarah?
1891 Census
Sarah Mitchell 45 Widow
Mary E K Fawcett Daugh/Single 21
Ann Mitchell Daugh/Single 14
Margt K Fawcett Sister/Single 34
Joseph H Philipson Nephew/Single 22
Thomas K Fawcett Nephew 6
Albert K Fawcett Grandson 3
Residing at 16, Chapel Lane, Kirkland
Census Ref RG12/4332/44/29
1881 Census
Benjamin Barnett 56 occ Linsey Weaver and Lodgings Housekeeper b Bowness
Sarah 55 b Underbarrow
Joseph Philipson 20 Stepson occ Cordwainer b Kendal
Joseph H Philipson 12 Grandson b Kendal
Priscilla Philipson 15 Grandaughter b Kendal
Plus Lodgers
Residing at 16/18/20 Pepper Corn Lane, Kirkland
Census Ref RG11/5212/20/15
1871 Census
Benjamin Barnett 46 occ Weaver b Winchester?
Sarah 45 b Underbarrow
Hiriam 22 occ Shoe Finisher b Kendal
Joseph 10 b Kendal
Plus Boarders
Residing at Capper Lane, Kirkland
Census Ref RG10/5285/40/29
Marriage Benjamin Barnett to Sarah Westgarth Dec 1864 Kendal 10b 1020
Keyboard86
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Hi Washy, back again,
1861 Census
Henry Philipson 67 Married occ Clock & Watch Maker b Winster
Sarah Westgarth 36 Single occ Housekeeper b Underbarrow
Priscilla Westgarth 14 b Hawkshead
Hiriam Westgarth 12 b Kendal
George Westgarth 10 b Cartmel, Lancs
Residing at Capper Lane, Kirkland
Census Ref RG09/3969/36/26
1851 Census
Henry Philipson 56 Married occ Clock Maker b Winster
Sarah Westgarth 28 Single occ Housekeeper b Underbarrow
Henry 7 b Kendal
Aquila 6 b Kendal
Prescilla 4 b Hawkshead
Hiram 2 b Kendal
George 3 months b Kendal
Residing at Holker Lower
Census Ref HO107/2274/136/4
Keyboard86
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Hi Keyboard
I can't even take it in ;D how you've manged to work it out is beyond me.
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Hi again Washy, had some fun trying to locate Joseph H and Priscilla in 1871, but finally located em! Still confused as to how they link with the Fawcetts or Mitchells?
1871 Census
Mary Philipson Head/Married 26 occ Woolen Factory Hand b Kendal
Pri !! 5 b Kendal
Sarah A 3 b Barrow, Lancs
J H 2 (son) b Kendal
Bridget Thompson 53 Widow/Boarder b Jamaica
Residing at Kirkland Yard, Kirkland
Census Ref RG10/5285/13/2
Keyboard86
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Just a bit lol, How many times has Sarah been married then?
Sarah Mitchell
Sarah Philipson
Sarah Bennet
Sarah Westgarth
Sorry I'm lost ??? :-[
Please explain
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Just a bit lol, How many times has Sarah been married then?
Sarah Mitchell
Sarah Philipson
Sarah Bennet
Sarah Westgarth
Sorry I'm lost ??? :-[
Please explain
;D ;D Good fun this family lark Washy! compare ages and status (married or single) ie Sarah Westgarth in 1841 is shown as 15 occ Female Servant to a Thomas Teasdale at Thompson Fould, Kirkby Lonsdale Census Ref HO107/1161/ 10/8/ 11.
So too many Sarah's, having children and not marrying!
Keyboard86
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was Sarah Westgarth really Philipson living wth uncle Henry Philipson
then she was with Barnett, still can't see connection to Sarah Fawcett, sorry feel stupid.
My giddy aunt how have you worked this out lol
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Washy, a few birth certs could answer a lot with this lot? If you check the births of the Westgarth children and subsequent census/marriages then they are either Philipson or Westgarth, or Westgarth/Phillipson Philipson/Westgarth, same problem you had with the Fawcett/Kitchens?
Plus we still do not know who John was b c 1839?
1841 for Henry Phillipson, still not with wife or I cannot locate one c 1841:-
Henry Philipson 45 occ Clock Smith residing at the Plough Inn, Kendal
Census Ref HO107/1160/ 17/5/ 2
Keyboard86
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Well another sleepless night going over it all lol. nearly 3am need some shut eye. Maybe able to think clearer tomorrow or not lol.
Thanks for all your help, I don't know how you do it ;D
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Plus we still do not know who John was b c 1839?
John could be this birth - John Kitchen Kendal Mar 1838 but can't pinpoint him in 1841.
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Nope not that one. There is a christening 29 July 1838 (birth 8 July 1838) of a John Fawcett Kendal mother Anne.
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Hi Milliepede
Can you follow it? ;D Hoping My mind working today lol, Going to start with assumption John is either Sarah's sibling's child or her husbands sibling's child & go from there ;D
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Oh I haven't got myself involved in the Phillipson/Westgarth debate, I'm still on the original problem ;D
Have I got the wrong John? I am looking for the John born c1838 son of Anne Fawcett in 1841.
Which John are you referring to?
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Nope not that one. There is a christening 29 July 1838 (birth 8 July 1838) of a John Fawcett Kendal mother Anne.
Sorry I was talking abt Joseph Phllipson not John. I think you have the right bapts for John Fawcett. Any details on there?
Sometime I lose track of what I'm doing, getting disturbed, having to go do something etc. Why I usually end up doing it so late at night, then tired in the morning & then my mind doesn't work lol.
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There's a Joseph Henry Westgarth born Kendal Jun 1869.
Couldn't see the actual baptism for John Fawcett so no further details.
I get sidetracked as well plus internet keeps dropping out on me which doesn't help >:(
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Ah, so now think that means Sarah was Sarah Westgarth who had children with Philipson. So how is Sarah Westgarth related to Sarah Fawcett/Michell? ???
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There is a marriage Kendal 1873 Sarah Fawcett Kitching and Christopher Frank Mitchell. what you found
Maybe his mother never married his father either & he's really Christopher Frank Westgarth lol.
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Hi Guys this is my first time on RootsChat so I hope i'm replying to the correct post!
If you want any info about Mary Kitchen Fawcett or especially Henry Westgarth Philipson just get in touch. Henry was my Grandfather!
You can contact me either on here or E-mail me slugsbody1(at)hotmail.com
Cheers Mike (Westgarth)
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Hi Mike, welcome to Rootschat, suggest you put at rather than @ in your address unless you want possibly a lot of spam, or make two more posts and replies can be by Private Message ok!
Keyboard86
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Thanks for that tip Keyboard86 never too old to learn! :)