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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Berkshire => Topic started by: mofid42 on Monday 21 May 12 13:28 BST (UK)
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Hi Everyone
I am in need of some help and ideas
Agnes Mary Bowgett m Harry Popple Brentford Middlesex Jun qtr 1918.
The marriage certificate on Ancestry gives Harry's age as 32 and hers has been transcribed as 26 but its not very clear. Harry's address was Maidenhead Berkshire and Agnes was living in Chiswick Middlesex. Her father was Alfred Bowgett a soldier, deceased.
My problem is prior to her marriage Agnes doesn't seem to exist. I can't find a birth nor any census entries.
I have found a death of an A Bowgett, a soldier who died during the Boer War but as there is no full first name I don't know if its her father.
To further complicate matters there is another marriage for an Agnes Mary Bowgett in 1915 to a Thomas Paget. The marriage took place in the Maidenhead Berkshire registration district, which seems a bit of a coincidence.
There is a death of a Thomas Paget in WW1 on the GRO war deaths on FindMyPast but his name isn't on the CWGC website. If the two marriages are for the same Agnes it seems a bit strange she should marry for the second time using her maiden name if she was a widow.
There is a death of a Harry Popple of the right age in Maidenhead Berkshire 1956 suggesting he remained living in Maidenhead. There is also a death of an Agnes Popple with no middle name in the Windsor Berkshire reg dist in 1964 giving her birth year as 1899 but I am not sure this is the correct person.
Can anyone suggest anywhere else I can check to try and sort out this puzzle?
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My problem is prior to her marriage Agnes doesn't seem to exist. I can't find a birth nor any census entries.
She could have been born and raised abroad if the family were with the soldier father - India comes to mind!
To further complicate matters there is another marriage for an Agnes Mary Bowgett in 1915 to a Thomas Paget. The marriage took place in the Maidenhead Berkshire registration district, which seems a bit of a coincidence.
If the two marriages are for the same Agnes it seems a bit strange she should marry for the second time using her maiden name if she was a widow.
The marriage certificate should show her father, which will give you a better idea if it's the same Agnes
Although, conventionally, she would use her previous married name, you can use any name you like as long as it is not for fraudulent purposes. Perhaps her 1st marriage was not a happy one?
There is a death of a Thomas Paget in WW1 on the GRO war deaths on FindMyPast but his name isn't on the CWGC website.
Unfortunately, not all names are on the CWGC site. There have been other postings on RC about people getting names added
Linda
PS The GRO www.gro.gov.uk is the cheapest way to get certificates. Sites like Ancestry will charge nearly double ::)
PPS Very few things are Impossible!!
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Hi Linda
Thanks for your advice.
I did wonder if Agnes was born abroad and did check to see if it was in India. I did find a birth for a Bowgett in India but the father was called Barnet. I have found what looks like the same Barnet on the UK census so he must have returned to the UK with his family. I have no idea if he is connected in any way to Agnes.
I also checked incoming passenger lists but didn't find anything.
I can't find a birth for Alfred Bowgett either although I can imagine its a name that often gets misspelled.
To be honest as Agnes's husband Harry is a cousin 2x removed on my in-laws tree I am trying to avoid having to spend too much on certificates at the moment on more distant connections so the one for the first marriage will have to join the queue, which is why I am trying to solve the puzzle using other information and methods.
PS...Is it just me or is spellcheck on Rootschat a bit temperamental lately? I must have pressed the button a dozen times and it won't work, all I get is the AVG search engine.
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Thomas Paget's bride was Agnes Maud Bowgett - a record of the banns is on familysearch - but I don't suppose that rules her out completely as being your Agnes.
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Thanks Galium
That has helped a lot. I hadn't spotted that one of FS.
The name Bowgett seems to fairly rare in the UK with most instances being in Middlesex,, Buckinghamshire, Yorkshire, Hampshre and Maidenhead in Berkshire. Its possible my Agnes is connected to the Maidenhead branch, just can't find anything to link her yet.
I am rapidly coming to the conclusion she was born outside of the UK, although I have also found examples of the name in Ireland. Think I need to take another tour of the IGI and FS
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There's an Agnes Bowgett on the 1901 in Maidenhead. Appears to be living on her own, single, head of the house, charwoman? age 27 and interestingly birthplace Not Known.
Also there is a tick in the end column on the census for afflictions but as there are 12 ticks on that page maybe it is ticking off something else rather than an affliction :-\
Oops probably too old for yours if she was 26 at marriage :-[
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Hi Milliepede
I did see that one but dismissed it as being too old but now I'm not so sure as the age on her marriage cert is a bit odd and quite honestly could be read as 26,36 or 46!
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I'm trying to post a snippet of the cert showing the ages but it just won't let me. First time I tried it did not complete the process properly and it did not appear but when I tried several other times it just keeps telling me I've already added a file with that name so I changed it and now it tells me I've already posted it but nothing is there!!
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Drawing a blank on the father too. I saw the South Africa one you mention but as you say with just an initial can't be sure. However any find of a surname like that is worth a mention.
I looked at the marriage and at first glance I thought 46 but numbers are very bad!
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Thanks, thats what I thought too.
I looked at the other marriage entries on Ancestry in either direction of Agnes's marriage written by the same person to see if I could make some sence of it but nothing helped as the persons writing is not very consistant
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There is a death for an Agnes M POPPLE in Welshpool in 1959 (in fact the only Agnes M) - year of birth estimated as 1873, which would tie in with the sighting of Agnes M BOWGETT on the 1901 census in Maidenhead.
Also a Harry POPPLE death in Maidenhead in 1956.
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Hi Harry W
Thanks for taking the time to check for me
I have the death of Harry Popple in 1956....the year of birth on the entry fits with his year of birth so I think it must be the right one.
I did see the death of Agnes M Popple in Welshpool in 1959 and wondered about it but wasn't sure as the only example I have of her age didn't fit at all. However I am rapidly coming to the conclusion that Agnes may have seriousy lied about her age!
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Seems to tie together doesn't it? The 1901 entry age 27 - esp the birthplace not known - the age at marriage being perhaps 46 and the death all leading to birth year c1873.
I wonder if she stayed long at the same address. The 1901 looks like 27 Moffett Street and there seem to be four people at number 27 but each in a single room bar the mother and son sharing.
John Gray 20
Rose Phillips 47 and son William Phillips 14
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I thought it was all beginning to fit together until I had a look at the 1911 census and found an Agnes Popple in Welshpool a widow with several children! She must be the one that died in 1959 as the age fits....back to the drawing board
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Oh noooooooo that can't be her then. I wondered what she was doing in Welshpool (not that I know where that is!)
Only other thing, which I think you've tried, is to see if she appears on passenger lists anywhere :-\
What was her husbands occupation* when they married, would he maybe show up in any trade directories or similar?
*Oh just looked and labourer which doesn't help.
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I wonder whether you could use electoral rolls to help with your search ?
Not sure what is available, an enquiry to the Berkshire Records Office may help.
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[quote author=mofid42 link=topic=598909.msg4486839#msg4486839 date=1337603284
There is a death of a Thomas Paget in WW1 on the GRO war deaths on FindMyPast but his name isn't on the CWGC website. If the two marriages are for the same Agnes it seems a bit strange she should marry for the second time using her maiden name if
Yes, occasionally there are instances where deaths had not been reported to the CWGC but the inability to find someone on the CWGC database does not necessarily mean that they are not recorded there. There is usually a simple explanation. In this case, however, the explanation is not so simple. The Thomas Paget I think you are referring to was actually Thomas Pannett, alias Thomas Paget or Thomas Peters. He is on CWGC under Pannett. It's bit more complicated than that but you get the picture!
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Hi
Did you have any luck with Agnes M Bowgett? I think she is my GG Granddads sister and living with her unmarried mother in about 1871.