RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Europe => Topic started by: bigirishfamily on Monday 21 May 12 20:52 BST (UK)
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Looking for advice/tips/help in researching an ancestor, Pearl Annie Kyboski born 1887 from Mielnica, Russia.
Fathers name was Jacob Kyboski.
At some point Pearl emigrated to Canada/USA but I don't know when.
ancestry.com has not come up with anything for me. Where should/could I look next?
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Have you checked out www.familysearch.org?
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Have you checked out www.familysearch.org?
I have yes, it did not turn up anything either. I realize there could be several variations of the surname - Kyboski, Kaboski, Kiboski, Kabowski, etc. so it is not going to be easy tracing her family in Russia/Poland. Her marriage certificate (from Canada) clearly spells it Kyboski though.
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What was her married name (from the certificate)?
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What was her married name (from the certificate)?
Her married name was Lyons
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Is this her?
name: Pearl Annie Lyons
arrival date: 26 Mar 1945
arrival port: Buffalo, New York,
birth country: Russia
gender: Female
arrival contact: Daughter Lillian Eileen
record has photo?: N
nara publication title: Manifests of Alien Arrivals at Buffalo, Niagara Falls, and Rochester, New York, 1902-1954
nara publication number: M1480
nara roll number: 72
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Is this her?
name: Pearl Annie Lyons
arrival date: 26 Mar 1945
arrival port: Buffalo, New York,
birth country: Russia
gender: Female
arrival contact: Daughter Lillian Eileen
record has photo?: N
nara publication title: Manifests of Alien Arrivals at Buffalo, Niagara Falls, and Rochester, New York, 1902-1954
nara publication number: M1480
nara roll number: 72
Yes that indeed is her. Sorry I forgot to mention that I had found that already.
My interest is in trying to locate her arrival to the US/Canada and if possible to find out more about her family/surname from Mielnica.
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Take a look at this site, it may provide some avenue of research:
http://genforum.genealogy.com/ukraine/messages/7668.html
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Hello Stephen,
Mielnica was in Galicia (Galizien) a province of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. It became Russian after WWI.
Judging by the forenames of father and daughter, I would have though that the family was Jewish. Am I right?
Justin
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Hello Stephen,
Mielnica was in Galicia (Galizien) a province of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. It became Russian after WWI.
Judging by the forenames of father and daughter, I would have though that the family was Jewish. Am I right?
Justin
That could very well be Justin, thank you for the tip. I had no idea about the names being Jewish. The mothers name looks like [Nellie Pahanecki]?
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Not sure about the surname "Pahanecki". A Google search of that name provides zero results.
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Could it be "Pohorecki", which is a surname name used in Poland...
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I think the "n" in the middle is probably an "r". Compare it to the "r" in the word "Farmer" in the Occupation field.
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Good eye 1pds, I think you are correct on Pohorecki.
Seems almost certain that Pearl was of Jewish descent. I suppose my next task(s) will be to go through the resources at the link you provided yesterday.
Thank you!
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There were Pohorecki name-bearers in the towns of Dydnia and Tarnopol according to the 1891 Business Directory of Galicia. Both towns were/are a considerable distance from Mielnica.
However, I can find nothing close to Kyboski in Galicia. Furthermore, here is a list of Jewish surnames extracted from the community records of Mielnica:
http://www.jewishgen.org/jri-pl/psa/mielnica_surn.htm
What records do you have that show Pearl's birth place?
Do you have any other evidence of Jewish descent?
Justin
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Hi Justin. I don't have any evidence of Jewish descent other than what has been offered in this thread by yourself and 1pds.
The only record of Pearls birth place is the marriage certificate, which is clearly [Mielnica, Russia].
I suppose it is possible that Pearls father changed the family name at some point, I do not know.
The only [Kyboski] refernence for the USA or Canada on ancestry.com is for a single female, Anna Kyboski:
1916 Canada Census of Manitoba, Saskatchewan, and Alberta
NAME: Anna Kyboski
BIRTH: 1888 - Russia
ARRIVAL: 1891
RESIDENCE: Shorncliff, Winnipeg Centre, Manitoba
I suppose this could be a sister of Pearl Annie (b.1887), or Pearl herself if she went by her middle name. Without more information I cannot tell at this time.
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Where and when did she marry?
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Where and when did she marry?
1918 in Winnipeg
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Hmm, this really is a bit of a mystery.
I cannot fathom why Pearl's 1918 marriage cert says Mielnica in Russia, given that Mielnica is clearly Polish rather than Russian, and was clearly on the Austrian side of the Dniester river.
Presumably, her husband (a Lyons of Donegal?) was a Catholic.
Justin
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Hi Justin,
A mystery indeed. Mielnica has been Polish from 1918. Prior to that it had been ruled/occupied by Russia and also Germany/Austria during WWI. I suspect Pearl offering Russia on her marriage cert signifies a family link to what was then a much larger Russia than it is today?
Poland Timeline at the BBC -> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/country_profiles/1054724.stm
Stephen
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Could it be this one?
http://www.gomapper.com/travel/where-is/mielnica-volynska-oblast-located.html
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There was another town called Mel'nytsya in the Russian gubernia of Volhynia, i.e. bordering on Galicia, ESE of Kovel/Kowel.
The Slownik Geograficzny Królestwa Polskiego - Warsaw [1885, vol. 6, pp.344-345] has the following description (I have added a few points in square brackets]:
Mielnica 1.) a town in Kowel powiat in the 6th Police district, gmina of Wielick [Velitsk]. The town is 10 viorsts [NE] from Hołub [Holoby] and 8 [NW] from Wielick [Velitsk]. In 1870, there were 420 residents, 32 Jews, 162 houses, an Orthodox church, a Roman Catholic church, a chapel, a prayer house, brewery, brick yard, 2 mills, 17 shops, 20 craftsmen, 2 fairs. (The Catholic church is renowned for a painting by Bogarodzic, painted on metal according to , dust ... Jan III sent under Wieden.) There is a beautiful painting of Saint Francis painted by Szymon Czechowicz. The Roman Catholic church is in the deanery of Kowel. The settlement is one of the oldest in Wolyn (Volhynia), in the 14th century it was a very important city. Refer to the book Stecki in Klosach, vol. XIV, 269. 2.) M., a settlement in the Wileń powiat
This town was Russian at the time of Pearl's marriage, and had been seized by Stalin as the Russians advanced in 1945. It was within the borders of interwar Poland.
The plot thickens.
Justin
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Mielnica 1.) a town in Kowel powiat in the 6th Police district, gmina of Wielick [Velitsk]. The town is 10 viorsts [NE] from Hołub [Holoby] and 8 [NW] from Wielick [Velitsk]. The settlement is one of the oldest in Wolyn (Volhynia), in the 14th century it was a very important city.
I live in Holoby. First, let me explain were Mielnica is.
Mielnica (Russian Мельница, Ukrainian Мельниця, Polish Mielnica) is a village in Kovel district of Volyn region (Volhynia). It is a territory of Ukraine now. Volhynia is a Russian province, in the 16th centure it was seized by Poland, later in 1795 it was returned back to Russia. In 1888 Mielnica was a Russian town, at the same time Poland was a Russian province. In 1915-18 Mielnica was occupied by Austro-Hungarian and German army. In 1917 Poland became independent and in 1919 Polish army captured a vast territory of Western Russia. From 1920 to 1939 Volhynia was a part of Poland. In 1939 Russia regained its land back.
Mielnica is a village now and its population is about 500 people. But from the Middle Ages till the end of WW2 it was a town. In 1939 town's population was more than 2000 people and more than half of them were Jews. They all were murdered by German Nazis during WW2. There lived also many Polish people, but in 1944-46 they almost all moved to Poland according to USSR-Poland Governement population exchange agreement. Since that Mielnica became a small village.
So Jacob and Pearl could be either Jews or Polish.
Some photos of Mielnica in 1915-18:
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Could it be this one?
http://www.gomapper.com/travel/where-is/mielnica-volynska-oblast-located.html
Yes, it is exactly that town.
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[Nellie Pahanecki]?
Nellie Paharecki. Пагарецкий/Пагарецкая in Russian. The 2nd and the 4th letters in Nellie's surname are `a`. It is absolutely untypical for Volhynian accent to pronounce Pohorecki with `A`: `Paharecki`, it should be Pohorecki in Ukrainian (and Polish too). Paharecki is a Byelorussian variant of spelling `Pohorecki` and Byelorussian pronunciation of this name as well. From that I can suggest that she or her forefathers could be from the territory of modern Byelorussia, Western Russia at that time, and moved to Volhynia at some time.
About Kyboski name.
As I am native Russian and Ukrainian speaker, it is obvious for me that one letter in the name has been lost, perhaps during naturalization in Canada, and initially it was Kybowski (Кибовский in Russian, Кібовський in Ukrainian).
If Jacob Kibo(w)ski was Catholic, you can try to search his birth record in Mielnica Roman Catholic church , they are available online on The Central Archives of Historical Records website (1827-63):
http://www.agad.gov.pl/inwentarze/KMluck436x.xml (http://www.agad.gov.pl/inwentarze/KMluck436x.xml)
(handwritten Polish and Russian)
there are also marriage and burial records
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Alex - you are someone who has great knowledge of the area .
My initial reaction was that this is Ukranian research - not Russian - and I went on www.geneanet.com - the earliest - 1814 I found for Pohorecki was indeed Galician - Ukraine .
https://gw.geneanet.org/andytereshyn?n=pohorecki&oc=&p=basil
My father in law was Ostap Kabluckyj - born Rohatyn ,Ukraine 1927 - I have done vast research on him and the area he was born - there is a stretch of about 11 miles that has changed hands so many times where he was born - Ukraine / Poland / Russia and now back to Ukraine - I went on
www.ukraine.com and registered for free - when accepted I went on to the Forum page and clicked on genealogy - there is a member on there named Hannia who has helped me no end . for those who dont know the Ukraines were taken over by the Russians and during WW2 they formed the 14th Waffen Galician regiment to fight for the Germans against the Russians because they wanted the Russians out of Ukraine ...my father in law was shot in Italy - captured and came to England as a POW . He stayed in Britain and died aged 39 from the initial damage done by his gunshot wounds ..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/14th_Waffen_Grenadier_Division_of_the_SS_(1st_Galician)
my point being that I am under the impression that Galicia was originally Ukranian - could you advise me please Alex ??
thankyou for reading :)
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just to confirm Alex excellent post
Kyboski = no results
Kybowski = 42 family trees
3 results for a Jacob Kybowski - but in Germany , Dresden marrying a Maria Schueler
https://en.geneanet.org/fonds/individus/?exact_day=&exact_month=&exact_year=&ignore_each_patronyme=&ignore_each_prenom=&size=10&type_periode=between&nom=kybowski&ignore_each_patronyme=&prenom=jacob&prenom_operateur=or&ignore_each_prenom=&place__0__=&zonegeo__0__=&country__0__=®ion__0__=&subregion__0__=&place__1__=&zonegeo__1__=&country__1__=®ion__1__=&subregion__1__=&place__2__=&zonegeo__2__=&country__2__=®ion__2__=&subregion__2__=&place__3__=&zonegeo__3__=&country__3__=®ion__3__=&subregion__3__=&place__4__=&zonegeo__4__=&country__4__=®ion__4__=&subregion__4__=&type_periode=between&from=&to=&exact_month=&exact_day=&exact_year=&go=1
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my point being that I am under the impression that Galicia was originally Ukranian
Since ancient times the territory of Galicia was populated by Eastern Slavonic tribes. In the 10th century it became a part of Rus' - the state of the Eastern Slavons. In 1349 Galicia was captured by Poland and then became a Polish province. It was called Województwo Ruskie
(Ruthenian/Russian Voivodeship). In 1772 Galicia was captured by Austria. In 1918 Austro-Hungaria collapsed and Ukrainians in Galicia declared independence as the People's Republic of Western Ukraine. At the same time Poland declared independence too, and then immediately
went to war with PRWU. In a few months PRWU was defeated and conquered. In 1939 after Germany had started war with Poland the USSR regained its territory, conquered by Poland in 1919-20 (Western Byelorussia and Volhynia). USSR had also taken Galicia then. That was a
reuniting of Ukrainian people.
In the Middle Ages Russians, Ukrainians and Byelorussians spoke the same language (Old Russian).
In the 14th century, when Galicia was captured by Poland, people spoke Old Russian too there. At that time the word "ukraine" (ukrAina) meant borderland but there was no nation called Ukrainians. People in Galicia, Volhynia, Byelorussia (White Russia) and Russia called themselves Russians.
Later modern Russian, Ukrainian and Byelorussian languages have been formed.
People in modern Galicia speak Ukrainian.
So Galicia originally was the land of modern Galician Ukrainians' ancestors.
In the early 20th century Galician Ukrainians treated well to Russia.
At that time (and even until the mid 20th century) Ukrainians in Galicia didn't call themselves "Ukrainians" but "Rusins".
There were many intellectuals who wanted Galicia to join to Russia (another part of them didn't want that). Thousands of pro-Russian Galicians were killed by Austrians in death camps Terezin
(Theresienstadt) and Thalerhof (this one was established specially for Rusins) during WW1, 60000 in total over all Galicia.
A key role in that genocide was played by anti-Russian Galician Rusins (as informers and even murderers). After that anti-Russian ideology won out in Galicia.
Millions of Ukrainians fought together with Russians for the Red Army against Nazis, but Galicians were Nazi collaborationists and USSR's enemies. Waffen SS killed millions of people during WW2 and are perpetrators, no matter what nationality they were - Germans or Ukrainians. Galicians served in SS and German death camps, they also helped to massacre the Jews in Galicia. That Hannia is one of modern Ukrainian neo-fascists.
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My initial reaction was that this is Ukranian research - not Russian - and I went on www.geneanet.com - the earliest - 1814 I found for Pohorecki was indeed Galician - Ukraine .
https://gw.geneanet.org/andytereshyn?n=pohorecki&oc=&p=basil
The capital of Volhynian Governorate was Zhytomir. That's why many documents related to modern Volyn region are kept in Zhytomir State Archive, while others are in Volyn Archive in Lutsk city.
Church records books from Mielnica on Polish website I mentioned above were kept in Volyn Archive too (there are V. Archive's labels on the covers) but later they were ceded to Poland and are stored in Warsaw Archive.
Polish and Ukrainians would pronounce "Pohorecki" only with O, but Byelorussians and Russians with A: Paharecki. That's absolutely clear. There is no doubt that Paharecki name is of Byelorussian origin. I've found that name Pohorecki comes from village Pohorye name. http://www.ufolog.ru/names/order/погорецкий (http://www.ufolog.ru/names/order/погорецкий)
There are 3 villages named Pohorye and they all are in Byelorussia (Pahorye in Byelorussian spelling and pronunciation). Two of them are in Grodno region and another is in Brest region.
Poharye in Grodno region (http://Poharye in Grodno region)
Pahorye in Grodno region (http://Pahorye in Grodno region)
Pahorye in Brest region (http://Pahorye in Brest region)
Also I've read recently that ca. in the late 19th cent. - early 20th cent. some Byelorussian people came to nearby village of Brukhovichi, 4 km from Mielnica. Governement needed infertile lands for a new firing range in Grodno Governorate and bought at local peasants their pieces. Some families decided to move to Volhynia. They bought plots of land and settled there, some of them in Brukhovichi and some in other villages. I don't know whether there were Paharecki or Kybowski among them but this is an example how Byelorussian surname could appear in Volhynia.
Sure, name Pohorecki exists too and some Pohoreckis could be Nellie's relatives (in Russian Pohorecki is spelled with O but pronounced with A)
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Poharye in Grodno region (http://Poharye in Grodno region)
Pahorye in Grodno region (http://Pahorye in Grodno region)
Pahorye in Brest region (http://Pahorye in Brest region)
Hm... The links don't work.
Pohorye in Brest region
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Погорье,+Беларусь/@52.9149704,25.5518388,14z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x46d8b2dfa72267bb:0xb232620feade381a!8m2!3d52.9147477!4d25.5701681 (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Погорье,+Беларусь/@52.9149704,25.5518388,14z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x46d8b2dfa72267bb:0xb232620feade381a!8m2!3d52.9147477!4d25.5701681)
Pohorye in Korelichi district, Grodno region
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Погорье,+Беларусь/@53.6153513,26.1540376,14z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x46deca564df525a3:0x43af5ed75180457f!8m2!3d53.6190053!4d26.1685124 (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Погорье,+Беларусь/@53.6153513,26.1540376,14z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x46deca564df525a3:0x43af5ed75180457f!8m2!3d53.6190053!4d26.1685124)
Pohorye in Smorgon district, Grodno region
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Жодишки,+Беларусь/@54.643146,26.4380942,14z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x46dc59607389ef4b:0x865bd1216f1a760a!8m2!3d54.6236596!4d26.4477968 (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Жодишки,+Беларусь/@54.643146,26.4380942,14z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x46dc59607389ef4b:0x865bd1216f1a760a!8m2!3d54.6236596!4d26.4477968)
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Thank you very much Alex - it's nice when someone who has extensive Knowledge of a region can educate people like myself - I will pass your info on to my wifes family - the Kabluckyj family - they will be very glad to read all this - basically , all they knew was that their dad / grandad / g grandad came from Roghatyn , Galicia,Ukraine - now they will know its history - thank you once again :)
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Kybowski name is a very rare one. It derives from another surname – Skybowski (without letter S lost). Skybowski comes from village Skybowka name. In Ukrainian (and maybe Old Russian) “skyba” means a slice of bread and a clod of earth.
A have another version about Kyboski name. Letter “y” is pronounced like U (oo in boot) in Russian. When I read “Kyboski” my initial reaction was that somebody had copied mechanically Russian letter «у» but originally it should have been copied like u. It was quite possible and such mistakes happened sometimes when English/Canadian/American etc copied Russian documents. So I think that it was smth like Kubowski.
I have found a church funeral record about the death of an old woman in a village of Vulka Porska near Mielnica. People from Vulka Porska attended Mielnica R. Catholic church.
http://agadd.home.net.pl/metrykalia/436/sygn.%20868/pages/PL_1_436_868_0137.htm (http://agadd.home.net.pl/metrykalia/436/sygn.%20868/pages/PL_1_436_868_0137.htm)
Record №13.
“On the 21st of October 1856 an aristocrat woman Magdalena Yakubowski nee Yagolkowski (I can’t read the handwriting well: Yagolkowski or Yanikowski) had died in the village of Vulka Porska. She was a wife of a noble man Michail Yakubowski. She was 78 years old and she was a parishioner of the Mielnica church. She had left no offsprings.”
My assumption is that originally the name Kyboski might have been Yakubowski. That is Jakubowski in Polish, Якубовский in Russian and Якубовскій according to Russian 19th century grammar rules (that had changed in 1918 when modern Russian Grammar was adopted). I suggest that the clerk that copied the name from the Russian paper didn't know what letter Я meant and missed it when copiing. Yakubovski/Jakubowski comes from Jacob name.
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http://www.wolhynia.pl/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=206&catid=25&Itemid=101 (http://www.wolhynia.pl/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=206&catid=25&Itemid=101)
Mielnica R. Catholic church was closed by the governmetnt in 1873, I have no idea why. Later it was rebuilt and became an Orthodox church. It was seriously damaged during WW1. In 1920 Catholics got the church back and repaired it. So if Pearl was Catholic she couldn't have been baptized in Mielnica in 1888 but perhaps in nearby village of Holoby.
I also have idea how letter W was lost. Perhaps it happened because Jacob & Nellie pronounced V like English W and OV like O in "no". In Byelorussian V is often pronounced like English W. Byelorussians should pronounce Kybovski like Kybowski (Kybouski).
Anyway, it would be great to find some church records.
You have enough variants :) to search:
Kyboski (the least likely)
Kybowski Кибовский
Kubowski Кубовский
Jakubowski Якубовский
Pohorecki Paharecki Погорецкий Пагарецкий
There is a man named Kibovski who works in the government (local authorities) of Moscow city as a Culture Minister (Culture Depatment Chief) but he writes about himself in Wiki that all his ancestors came from Smolensk region.
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Mielnica church in 1915-18
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Mielnica 1900-1916