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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Somerset => Topic started by: Kells on Monday 28 May 12 12:32 BST (UK)
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I am searching for the family of William Dyer born c1811, a tailor born in Bath who later lived in Bristol. Information from his second marriage suggests his father was also William Dyer, a tailor.
I have found a possible match of a brother for William named James, born c1801. James appears in the 1841 census in Bath St. James as a tailor, with his daughters, and 65 year old William, also a tailor, and presumably the father of the William born 1811.
I am having no luck finding a baptism for William jnr. or any other family details. James appears in the 1851 census with a birthplace of Stonehouse, Devonshire, which offers some clues to the family origins before Bath. Searches of online parish records have proved fruitless.
Can anyone help? Anything much appreciated.
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This might be a complete red herring, but Dyer is a Gloucestershire (Stroud) name, and there is a Stonehouse (near Stroud) in Gloucestershire too............
I haven't access to Glos indexes, but it might be worth looking?
Anne
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Thanks, something to consider I suppose, if the Devon links don't work out.
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Hi Kells,
James Dyer's children were all recorded in the register of the Baptist Church in Somerset Street, Bath which raises the possibility that his parents were also Baptists and so he and William would not appear in any parish register.
The nearest match in the Non-conformists registers that I can see is a James Dyer born in 1805 in Plymouth (very near Stonehouse) but with father John. The same parents had a son William in 1808, but in Devonport, not Bath.
David
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Thanks, that was something I had not fully considered, very likely indeed and a probable reason for the absence of my William born in 1811 from any parish records I have been able to search online.
I may have to accept this as the end of the line for my research for now, or perhaps inquiring of the Bath record office research service. Searching online is limiting in so many ways, as good as records have become.
Thanks both for your assistance.
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I may have to accept this as the end of the line for my research for now, or perhaps inquiring of the Bath record office research service. Searching online is limiting in so many ways, as good as records have become.
FreeREG has very good coverage of Bath. The only parish baptism register missing from the period around 1811 is Bathwick 1801-1812, and that has recently been entered and will appear after the next update. There was a John Dyer there in 1811, son of Samuel and Elizabeth, but no William. FreeREG has some non-con records, and as far as I am aware, any existing ones that we don't have are available on the Non-Con BMD site, with the one exception of the Roman Catholics. It's not very likely that William was born a Catholic if his brother was a Baptist, but not impossible I suppose.
Other possibilities include, he was not baptised where he was born - Stonehouse would be the most likely alternative , he was actually born in a village outside Bath but near enough to put that as his birthplace - but nearly all those are on FreeREG as well, or he wan't baptised at all.
I see the witnesses to James' wedding include a Mary Dyer. Could be sister or mother. Have you traced her at all?
David
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Thanks David,
These are some elusive ancestors in that case! I have tried FreeREG many times and it does seem to be very comprehensive in the coverage of Bath and near areas. I had a look through the Non-Conformist site you recommended, without paying to view, as nothing stands out as a match. Always a possibility of no baptism, as you say, or any number of areas outside of Bath or Devon. Throughout the years of the census, William gives his birthplace of Bath, but alas no baptism means no progress.
I had not seen the record of James Dyer's marriage, I only knew his wife's name from the baptism records for his children. That could be very helpful. A pity the witness was Mary and not something a little less common but I will try looking for her.
Thank you.
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Not sure if it might be of relevance that William Dyer's children were baptised at St. Philip and St. Jacob, and also St. Peter, in Bristol? Not likely to have been Baptist and changed religion? His wife was baptised in St. James, Bristol, so appears to have been C of E.
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Hi Kells posted a PM.
I'm researching the Dyers of Stonehouse Plymouth (William Dyer b.1744) who's son Richard then moves to Bath in 1790 to set-up a bakery. (His daughter also marries a tailor.)
Regards, Andrew
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I have been searching DustyDocs and found this.
William Dyer s/o William Lee and Maria.Born Mar 1811 Christened 2 june 1811.St.Swithin Bath Somerset.
I also found William Lee (a tailor) marrying Maria Pullman 29 May 1798. Stoke Damerel Devon.
they had a son in Stoke Damerel.
James Pulman Lee born 3 jun 1799 Chr 15 SEpt 1800.Then appear to have moved as no more children there on record.
William Dyer. named all of his children middle name Lee.and he had a son William Lee Dyer.and a daughter Maria Lee Dyer.
What do you think? Worth investigating? I cannot find anything else that may be possible as he was adament that he was born 1811 Bath Somerset on all Census. Even though his last name appears to be Dyer on the Cens.
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Hello Lynnerosetta,
Thank you very much for taking the time to look at this. I am very interested in what you have found. Could it be he was not a Dyer after all? On the marriage certificate for his second marriage he states his father as William Dyer, also a tailor. On the baptism entry you found, is William's surname actually given as Dyer? The father is William Lee but not Dyer? Maybe he was illegitimate, and could therefore be known by whichever surname he chose, but where does Dyer come from? Raises a lot of questions but potentially gives some answers!
Interestingly, the name Lee comes down to further generations as well, eventually corrupted to Leigh. My husband's grandfather had this middle name. I think you might be on to something.
I will take some time to digest and see if there is any more I can find out. I had never come across that entry before. The mention of Lee would have got my attention for sure!
Thank you kindly :)
Kells.
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Hello Kells
I have found a few things on line and traced the Lee Family back to 1666.
someone posted a newpaper cutting for Liskeard in Cornwall. stating that a Wiliam Lee was sent to prison for 10months hard labour for stealing a joint of beef. I have discovered that William and Maria Lee lived in liskeard and had 2 children there. so this fits. William must have served his sentence and moved away. eventually arriving in Bath Somerset for the birth of William Dyer Lee in 1811.Having changed his name from William Lee to William Dyer, Further I have found a William Lee born 25 aug 1766 in Hillfarrance Somerset to William Lee and Elizabeth Dyer. Maria Pulmans father was James ,thus the JamesPulman Lee born 3 june 1799 im Stoke Damerell where Wiliam and Maria where married. I have gone back on the pullman line and the Lee line. And think I have it correctly. Can I send you the Family group sheets that I have on them for you to confirm Please.I would need your address or private e-mail address to do this. Lynne.
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Hello Lynne,
Thanks for your messages, I have seen them both now.
I started a new thread after this one to address the William Lee background, as separate to my original William Dyer post.
I have traced Maria Pulman's side in Cornwall, but still haven't found anything that fits well for William Lee alias Dyer. I have his death certificate which states his age as 73 years in 1848 (birth approximately 1775). This is some way from 1766 so I have some misgivings about the link with the family you have found in Hillfarrance. However I would certainly consider all possibilities.
Can you please let me know where you found that the William born in Hillfarrance was a son of Elizabeth nee Dyer? I cannot find evidence of this.
I'm still unclear as to why he changed his name, and there are a number of possible reasons. I had thought the most likely one would have been illegitimacy.
I'll try some more looking into it.
Thanks again for your contact.
Kells.
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Hello Kells.
I have found on Find my past. 3 Lee/ Dyer marriages.
Charles Lee to Elizabeth Dyer. 8 aug 1775 Bridgewater Somerset. Charles was a sojourner.
William Lee to Mary Dyer. 15 jun 1736 St.James Taunton Somerset.
William Lee to Elizabeth Dyer 2 june 1757 Hillfarrance Somerset.
the 2nd one seems too early.
I can find no children for Charles Lee and Elizabeth.
William Lee and Elizabeth Dyer. had.
Elezabeth Lee bapt. June 1758 Hillfarrance.
Ann " 18 mar 1760 "
John " " 27 jan 1762 "
Martha " " 3 jul 1764 "
William " " 25 aug 1766 "
Thomas " " 21 nov 1768 "
James " " 2 sep 1770 "
Samuel " " 25 apr 1773 "
Joan " " 10 mar 1777 "
also. but not Dyer's
William Lee and Elizabeth Batchelor. married 24 dec 1769 Bath Abbey Bath Somerset had
William Lee Bapt 1 jan 1776 St Peter and St.Paul BathSomerset.
Mary Lee " 22 dec 1771 "
Mark Lee " 19 aug 1770 "
Isaac Batchelor Lee. 2 jan 1774 "
John Lee and Mary Looseman married 3 oct 1773 Pitminster Somerset.
William Lee bapt 10 apr 1774 Pitminster
James Lee " 7 jan 1776 "
Hannah Lee " 8 feb 1778 "
Sarah Lee " 10 feb 1782 "
Mary Lee " 12 nov 1786 "
Betty Lee " 13 jun 1784 " (pauper)
Samuel Lee " 30 apr 1797 "
Ann Lee " 8 jan 1804 "
Samuel Lee " 3 aug 1806 "
also.
John Lee married Ann Besley 25 Dec 1769 St.Ducumans. Somerset.
1 child only found,#
William Lee bapt 8 oct 1771 St.Decumans Somerset.
These seem the only possibilities that I can find. Let me know what you think All found on Find my Past. Lynne. x
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Hi Lynne,
Looking at the Lee's of Hillfarrance, it appears William Lee born 1766 actually died in Hillfarrance in 1840. He was buried 26 Dec 1840 aged 73 years (giving an estimated birth year of 1767). Several of his brothers remained in the town as well, and these were the only Lees there. Therefore I don't think we have the right family for our William Lee alias Dyer. Sometimes things appear an "almost" fit, but it just doesn't seem quite right.
I still suspect there is a reason behind that name change, what it is we have yet to find out.
Thanks for sharing what you have found, it is useful to explore all possibilities and eliminate any that don't work out. I wouldn't discount Devon either, as it is where he and Mary Pulman were married. She was from Cornwall.
Cheers,
Kells.