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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Northumberland => England => Northumberland Lookup Requests => Topic started by: geoffreyhyoung on Saturday 02 June 12 16:27 BST (UK)
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On my seemingly never ending quest to get beyond my ancestor Robert Young b1795 seemingly in Scremerston I had a look at some parish records from Ancroft and Tweedmouth on the understanding that Presbyterians were buried in the Parish churchyards.Looking at the Bishops transcriptsIi found Robert Youngs at Ancroft both as father and son in the 1760s as well as burials of other Youngs living at Scremerston.
I then got to thinking as Roberts first son was Andrew maybe that was his fathers name. Ann Ann Young aged 84 was buried at Tweedmouth in 1800 said to be the widow of an Andrew Young labourer. Could this be grandparents? Also i found an Andrew from East Mains in the Ancroft BT buried in 1816 aged 59 or 69? This would make him the right age to be Roberts father.
Also at Lowick I found an Andrew Young married in 1779 to a Margaret Tait. Also at Lowick there were burials of Robert Youngs in the late 1700s.
Do you think that any of these people are possibilities?
Also there seem to be gaps in the BTs. Are the original registers any more complete?
Since last time I have checked Scottish border parishes as suggested and not found any likely marriages for Robert and his wife Ann. So a toll marriage does seem most likely.
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I suppose all or any of them could be right - you'll just need a bit more data to prove or eliminate them.
I often use spreadsheets in this situation. Put them all on there, sorting by date or location can often clarify the picture a bit. Otherwise they're all logged for when you do find more information.
As for the parish records being more complete than the BTs - yes, they are. You can see what's available by looking at the genuki website. Go to the relevant parish and follow the link to church records
http://www.genuki.bpears.org.uk/NBL/Parishes.html
Christine
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thanks for that. i think a journey to Northumberland archives is needed.
I have been wrestling with the problem that some people in the borders seem to use both presbyterian and anglican churches for baptism. Maybe some presbyterian families became anglicised over time or just lapsed a bit? I know the popular idea is that presbyterians never used anglican churches but my family appeared to have used both. Any thoughts?
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ghy,
As far as England and Wales go, if Presbyterians wanted a legal marriage and legitimate children, they would have to marry in a Parish Church i.e Anglican/Church of England. But there was no restriction for baptisms.
The same legislation that introduced civil registrations of BMDs in July 1837, allowed different religions to marry in church denomination of choice, or Register Office.
Before 1837 many English folk popped over the border to Scotland to marry, thus avoiding having to marry in the "wrong church" !
Michael
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thanks Michael for your reply.
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thanks Michael for your reply. However i just have this nagging feeling that things with Presbyterians wernt as clear cut as some say. Were all of them die hards by the 19th cent? Would some in a religious sense be a bit slack as it were as were anglicans and others. Would all Scots Prebyterians be as dogmatic as we are led to believe or would when need arose use the nearest anglican church if need be? Why do some families seem to baptise children in an anglican church one generation and then presbyterian the next and then sometimes back. This makes North Northumberland family history very complicated
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You have my understanding and sympathy. My family are non-conformists (Methodists) from the Kyloe and Lowick area. I have trawled through many records at Woodhorn and Percy House looking for them. Anglican, Presbyterian, Methodist, Irregular Border Marriages. Don't give up. Just keep plugging away at it systematically and the breakthroughs will hopefully come. NDFHS have a couple of publications of Irregular Border Marriages which I bought and have found useful. Might be worth the investment if you have a lot of folks in that area.
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I suspect that it may have something to do with inter-denominational marriages and the strength of the beliefs of the spouses.
I followed one line back to the early 1700s - C. of E. all the way - and was then surprised to find that my several x great grandfather had been a Presbyterian minister. One of his sons followed him into the ministry while my direct ancestor obviously did not.
Christine
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i have looked on the IGI and collated all Andrew and Robert Youngs c1650 to 1800 and where they were baptised. i have then put them onto a parish/chapel map of the area and now am going to look at Parish records to try and find others plus marriages and burials. Is there anywhere else to check noncomformist records other than the IGI? Also I realise I need a trip to berwick to look up the cross border marriage records.
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Burial Andrew Young, Tweedmouth, in Tweedmouth 2 Oct 1797, no age or occupation--nor is there on anyone of that time frame.
Janis
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Thanks Janice,
i wonder if he links into Ann buried 1800 Tweedmouth said to be the widow of Andrew labourer of Scremerston. The only thing is the Andrew you have said is recorded as from Tweedmouth?
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Yes in the Tweedmouth burials.
Janis
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Also I realise I need a trip to berwick to look up the cross border marriage records.
I've just double checked at Woodhorn - they have the Berwick Advertiser information 1808 - 1864 as well as some details of Lamberton Toll and Mordington.
You may be able to get everything available from your trip to the Woodhorn archives
Christine
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thanks Christine. Do they have Coldstream as well?
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I’m not sure about Coldstream but that’s not to say it isn’t there. I was primarily checking on the Berwick Advertiser as I was fairly sure I had seen that before. It’s on the bookshelves beside the transcriptions.
I know about Lamberton because I once found some of my ancestors there - after searching nearly every parish in Northumberland!
You might find out via Woodhorn’s online catalogue.
Christine
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Will try that. Is it also the case that Woodhorn has more complete records for Spittal presbyterian church than the IGI. I'm sure someone told me that but I may just be dreaming!
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I have transcripts of Spittal United Presby 1751-1837. No Robert or Andrew Younger baptisms in the time frame you want. The two I found were 1815 and later. The only Younger marriage from my Coldstream marriages was a Simon Younger marrying a Mary Younger both of Carham 20 Jul 1796. My transcript goes from 1793-1797.
Janis
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thanks for looking. I just find it strange that all Robert and Ann Youngs children starting with Jane Douglas in 1819 were baptised in Spittal presbyterian but that of Andrew c1821 isnt to be found anywhere? its a bit odd. Also I would think Robert and Anns wedding was probably in one of the marriage booths around 1817ish.
I have been told Ann was a Moffat but cant confirm this. Cant find her either.
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Is it also the case that Woodhorn has more complete records for Spittal presbyterian church than the IGI. I'm sure someone told me that but I may just be dreaming!
According to genuki Woodhorn have Spittal baptisms from 1751 - 1837 and IGI have 1751 - 1853 so it would appear that IGI have greater coverage.
Christine
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Hi just wondering if you could help in anyway. I have just started to trace my family tree which takes me to Scremeston and East Ord in Northumberland. My ggg Grandfather was Thomas Young born in 1817 in Scremeston. His wife was Catherine T Young born in Scotland. Their children were Margaret Young (1844) William Young (1846) and Isabella my gg grandmother(1848). Just wondering if you have come across any of these names during your research? I just can’t seem to get any further
Thank you in advance
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Hi Michelle
Welcome to rootschat.
Looking at the 1861 census you will see that there is another son, John, born 1855 and also that the place of birth for Thomas and the children is given as Ancroft.
Go to 1841 census for Ancroft and you will find Thomas Young age 23 still living with parents and siblings. His parents names are William and Isabella which fits nicely with the names of his children.
Can you confirm that his wife's maiden name was Grey?
Christine
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Hi Christine
Thank you so much for your information. It definitely sounds like the Thomas I was looking for!!! Unfortunately with my kids off school at the moment I haven’t had the chance to follow it up. I’m new to tracing family history and it’s so interesting. I think their day to day life would have been very difficult. Thomas was an agricultural labourer and seemed to move or “flit” from farm to farm.
Thank you once again for your help. Stay safe