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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Tyrone => Topic started by: Spw on Monday 04 June 12 22:46 BST (UK)
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I'm looking for Francis Mc Carney mother's maiden name.
I did send order the Civil Marriage Record Parish of Doncavey Fintona RC Ch.
But it has only Francis father name & only Anne father name
don't know where to look next.
This is what I have on Francis & Wife Anne Donnelly
Francis Birth March 17, 1851 Of Laca Tyrone, Ireland
Marriage to Anne Donnelly February 9, 1869 Fintona RC Church Omagh District, Tyrone
Francis died October 2, 1897 --
don't know where Francis died
Francis Father's name Michael Mc Carney
Don't know of any brothers or Sisters
Anne Donnelly Christening December 6, 1846
Anne Donnelly death Jan-Mar 1909 Tyrone, Ireland
They had 8 Children Michael, Mary Anne, Catharine A., Francis, Rose, Patrick, Elizabeth Bridget All born in Tyrone Ire.
Residence in February 9, 1869 Killaberry
Residence in 1906 was Dromore Tyrone Ireland
Occupation Farm Servant
Occupation for Anne was Farmers Daughter
Info from Census 1870, 1901, Ireland birth 1620-1881,Civil Registration Indexes 1845-1958, & Civil married record.
I hope this help's & to find some one else who is working on Mc Carney family too
spw
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Irish marriage certificates don’t record mothers names.
Francis’ birth was before the start of civil registration of births (1864) so you won’t get his mother’s name from that source. The usual alternative is to look for his baptism. Unfortunately you won’t find that either as the Donacloney RC baptisms only start in 1857. It might just be worth checking the register all the same, in case he had younger siblings born after 1857, who are listed. A copy is held in PRONI.
Was Anne Donnelly’s family also from Lackagh? (The civil marriage cert should list her townland at the time of the marriage). I note you describe her occupation as a farmer’s daughter. If so, Griffiths Valuation has 3 Donnelly households there in 1860, headed by Michael, Arthur and Hannah (plots 3, 6 & 7 respectively). Hannah was possibly a widow.
http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml
There’s 2 wills in PRONI for Donnelly from Lackagh:
Full Abstract :
Administration (with the Will) of the Estate of Owen Donnelly late of Lackagh County Tyrone Farmer who died 2 March 1913 granted at Armagh to Catherine Donnelly Spinster. Effects £131
Full Abstract :
Donnelly James of Lackagh Fintona county Tyrone farmer died 27 June 1941 Administration W/A Londonderry 24 February to Alice Donnelly the widow. Effects £129 8s.
I also noted this will:
Full Abstract :
McCarney Francis of Lacca Fintona county Tyrone farmer died 2 February 1934 Probate Londonderry 8 August to Bernard Donnelly farmer. Effects £284 13s. 3d.
You can read Owen’s will on-line. For James’ & Francis you would need to get a copy from PRONI as those years have not been put on line yet.
http://applications.proni.gov.uk/DCAL_PRONI_WillsCalendar/willsSearchResultsDetails.aspx
There were no McCarney households in Lackagh/Lacca in Griffiths in 1857. However Michael McCarney is listed in Killyberry for that year. He was renting a farmhouse, offices (outbuildings) and 14 acres of land (plot 6). Immediately beside him was James McCarney on plot 7, who had a house, offices and 11 acres. Also together with Peter McCosker, they shared 49 acres of mountain in the same townland. Michael & James might be brothers.
Can’t see any wills listed for McCarney from Killyberry.
Two McCarney households in Killyberry in the 1901 census:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Tyrone/Tattymoyle/Killyberry/1743970/
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Tyrone/Tattymoyle/Killyberry/1743971/
Likewise 2 Donnelly families in Lackagh in 1901:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Tyrone/Draughton/Lackagh/1743073/
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Tyrone/Draughton/Lackagh/1743075/
I don’t think your information that Francis died in 1897 can be correct. I think he died in 1934. Francis & Anne in 1901:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Tyrone/Draughton/Lackagh/1743066/
Francis in 1911:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Tyrone/Draughton/Lackagh/871738/
A death cert for 1934 in NI won't be on-line and you would need to apply to GRONI for a copy.
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Hi
Thank you for reply back & info.
I didn'know the married certificate don't have the mother name on them.
I was hoping!
I have never used PRONI what info will I need to get a copy?
How will I know if that's his brother. Well it have his father name on them?
On Anne Donnelly Civil Marriage Record the address was Lacca, County Tyrone.
Plus the 2nd witness was Anne Donnelly. Any ideas who that could be?
The first witness was Thomas Campbell. I have NO idea who that is.
This one you found looked good. I think you found it
McCarney Francis of Lacca Fintona County Tyrone farmer died 2 February 1934.
All they children were born in Fintona & married in Fintona too.
I think you are right about Francis drying in 1934 not 1879 too.
How do I get a copy from GRONI, What's the cost?
Thanks again,
spw
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For PRONI, the Donacavey RC records are on microfilm MIC1D/14. That’s all you need to know if you are going in person. The microfilms are in self service drawers in the main reception room. The staff will show you how to access them. (Take photo id to get a readers ticket). Typically RC baptisms at that time will have the parents names and two sponsors. So you are looking for baptisms to Michael McCarney (possibly of Lackagh) and A. N. Other. RC baptisms at that time didn’t contain much more information than that.
Can’t say who the witness Anne Donnelly was but typically it’d be a close relation such as a cousin. Can’t really be a sister for obvious reasons, and unusual for it to be the mother.
A cert from GRONI with an exact date and place of birth should be £14 but you would need to confirm that with them. You should be able to order on-line:
http://www.nidirect.gov.uk/gro
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Hi
I wish I could go & love to go but I'm in USA.
That's why I was trying to find a way to order it & asking how much it would be.
Like you said, PRONI years starts 1864 & Francis was born 1851so I can't use them.
Is there an one else?
I think you are right about Michael McCarney households in Lackagh/Lacca farm house.
That's what is listed on the Marriage record for Ann Donnelly
Is Lackagh/Lacca the same place or next to each other?
Are you in Ireland?
Thank you
spw
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Hey,
I am a McCarney, Just a little tip when your looking up the Griffiths Valuation of Ireland.
Most of the McCarney's are down as McKearney.
My Great Great Grand Father was John McCarney from Lislane. This townland is in the Clogher Parish.
In the Griffiths Valuation of Ireland he is down a John McKearney, there is also a Michael McKearney in Lislane.
However in the 1901/11 Census my family are the only McCarney's in Lislane :)
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Hi
Thank you - Thank you,
I will try that tip.
I hate to hit a died end on the Mc Carney,
I wish I could find an other way to find Francis Mother name so I could go on.
or some one else that's working on the Mc Carney family.
I though mom was going to be on the Civil Marriage Record. :(
It would be nice to find some more info on the children
Patrick, Eliza Jane Sarah, Rose, Bridget and I could the mother name that way. :)
Thanks again,
spw
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My family still live in the area, when im next home (live now in england) Ill ask round for you to see if any of the names ring a bell etc.
maybe you can private message me your email address.
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looked up the Ireland, Catholic Parish Baptisms, 1742-1881 records for you
I found 3 people born to a Michael McCarney, however no Francis, Please note somes names are in Latin
* cut and paste details removed in accordance with Rootschat policy
The townland lacca/lackagh is not far from townlands in the Clogher parish.
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Hi
I do want to Thank You for trying to find Francis MC Carney Mother.
That was so nice of you to do that.
Marriage Record has Fintona RC Ch. Parish of Donacavey.
Would that be a different list or church?
Do they ever put down the mother's name?
There is a space for it on the Civil Marriage Record.
Do they put the father & Mother on the death certificates?
Thanks for telling me where Lacca/Lackagh is.
spw
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Hey
Parish of Donacavey and Clogher are beside each other, So some town lands in Donacavey are beside the town lands in Clogher.
My Grandfather was born and baptist in the Eskra Parish, My grandmother was born and Baptist in Donacavey. When they Married it was in Donacavey. They moved to a other town land in Donacavey and all their children are baptist in Donacavey
Grandfather was from Lislane, and Grandmother Edenatoodry (this townland is in the same DEDs as Lackagh)
I'm afraid the only information on a marriage record is the fathers names, and on a death record there is only the informant who is the person who registered the death.
The only place you may find the mother name is on the baptist record.
The Parish of Donacavey is centred on the town of Fintona.
Here is the website for the Parish.
http://www.fintonaparish.com/index.php?option=com_frontpage&Itemid=1
In 1869 Clogher Parish was divided into 3 Parishes. Clogher, Eskra and Fivemiletown
However all records before this time I believe is still kept in Clogher.
When looking for McCarney's try these other spellings. McCarnie, McKearney, McCarrey, and Carney.
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Hi
Thanks you for the website for the parish. It looks like a nice parish & it's still in use too.
I have Francis birth place is Of Lacca Co. Tyrone
Is this a good way to look him up?
You have so more names for a place over there, I never know.
I think every Francis in Tyrone is listed but him. I can't seen to find him anyway. :(
The only thing I found new was on the Clogher parish records you said to look at.
I saw a Francis MC Carney film #6061. Is there a way to look something up with those number after his name?
After 1869 did the parish start keeper the records some place else?
Because they got married 09-Feb-1869
spw
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Hello seen this post and had to reply, I'm as you have already guessed connected in some way, Francis Mc Carney of kilaberry/killyberry/killberry d24 Dec 1952 was my great grandfather, husband of Bridget Murphy d11 Apr 1950, but I just wondering are they the same, as there are many family,s in this area killyberry/Stranisk on the later census 1901/1911 Mc Carney,s are plenty fully as the male line is very strong. I have list,s of names, photos of headstones {Stranisk/Killyberry} to go with these families but have never got round to sorting any of it out, the old house is still there that they lived in and grew up in ,now used as a cattle shed as part of Cambells farm. I have a picture of it some were as well ! will have to dig it out. If this joins any dots or I can help you let me know ;D PM me if this helps
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Hope some one else is working on Mc Carney Family Tree in Tyrone Ireland
& may have come a cross this family
I'm still looking for Francis Mc Carney mother's name. :'(
Francis born March 17, 1851 Lacca Tyrone Ireland
Father was Michael
Wife Ann Donnelly
5 Children Rose, Patrick, Eliza, Sarah, Bridget
spw
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It looks like previous poster Shane McCarney is my 2nd cousin. He hasn't been on in a year. Did anyone ever contact him? get an email address? know where he is from. It would be of great help if I could get in touch with him. My email is (*). THanks Tim
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Cant Pm him until I have 3 posts
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Cant Pm him until I have 3 posts
... and not allowed to post email address- you need to modify previous post or use 'report to moderator' to get it done for you (if post is over 24 hours old)
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Hi I have some info, but not all jointed together.So I will do it over a few postings so as not to over load the picture allowance!First I will show the oldest grave of this family group in Donacavey ,the reason for this is to try and explain where they came from?This is very much up in the air ,but the O Cairney seems to come from the Donegal area and points to Derry (this is only speculation)
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The earliest Patt this could be Patrick or may be Patricia? There are three Patrick's in the Tattymoyle area on the 1827 Tithe list as follows in the town-lands Corahesk,Tattymoyle Lwr and Killyberry there is one grave for Patrick in Donacavey d1840 but this could the person who lived in Tattymoyle lower as yet unanswered?Also there are three Mc Kerneys in this list,two of who live in the adjoining town-land of Stranisk(more on this in the next post )
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This marker is next to Patrick,s marker ,ie one family plot two graves (these pictures are posted on findagrave Donacavey and were taken by me)
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Next in line is James who married Jane Gormley,they lived in Killyberry.I have no known grave for him but I think he is interred in St Peter and St Pauls graveyard in Fintona.He lived next to Micheal Mc Carney who I am guessing was related in what way I don,t know and Mc Cosker,s who were also related but I don,t know how?They lived beside each other on the same street,they had there own plots and shared grazing rights on plots 6 7 8 and 9(mountain),There was a James Mc Carney also in Stranisk on plot 6 just two fields away who I assume was also related,cousin or may be uncle(the next post will show a picture of there family marker)?The most of there family members went to the USA some Rhode Is MA ,NY and I think( Philly?) The only one staying was Francis who you know of, his family were to also leave for the USA This is a picture of what remains of the house
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These are from the Mc Carney of Stranisk in 1864 PRAI - Registry of Deeds There was one James Some of the names match up to the 1901/1911 Ireland census
Removed the photos as they were over sized, they read
In memory of
James Frank Mary
Kate Patrick
and Mary Mc Carney
also Elizabeth Campbell
Stranisk
Loving memory
Ellen Mc Carney
Died 6th Nov aged 92 years
her husband Owen
and his parents
Micheal and Alice
Stranisk
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Francis 1864-1950,I have marker photo but will not post it,could sent to you if you want it let me know.He married Bridget Murphy ,Tattymoyle upper,Carriglass Tattymoyle Donacavey(Irish town-lands are like Russian dolls)Plot 21 the plot is on the left hand side of the road. Her father was Bernard, 1864 Registry of deeds, but before this there are no Murphys in Donacavey 1827 so the family most likely came from either Killskerry or across the field in Co Fermanagh Pobal parish Tempo
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Bernard Murphy married Ithink???Mary Mc Court whose parents where Bridget and Peter Mc Court,Peter seems to have disappeared?Died or was away,looking online he may have went to Rhode is MA? or could have died? either way I don,t know.Bridget is shown living in 1864 Registry of deeds Tattymoyle upper Carriglass Donacavey plot 12/10 the two areas are just around the autumn colored trees,Idont know her maiden name ,Peters Father could be Neal Mc Court ,one of the Ribbandmen from 1837 he is in the right area mixing fintona and Dromore?
http://www.igp-web.com/IGPArchives/ire/tyrone/misc/ribandmen.txt
The only other name close in Donacavey around this time is Mc Cart 1827Tithe list= Mc Cort?
The Mc Court name is found close by in Kilskerry and Dromore
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSsr=81&GScid=2493279&GRid=110635841&
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Now back to Jane Gormley who married James,her father I am guessing is Darby/Dorby a very common name around this time, shows up on the 1827 Tithe list in Stranisk(Which would have made them neighbors) and again on the registry of deeds list 1864 in Corbally a short distance away on plot 13 (Photo). I have no marker or headstone for him yet although I am not finished looking he could be Fintona or Dromore stock?
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSsr=41&GScid=2493279&GRid=110542179&
http://www.cotyroneireland.com/graveyard/donaghcavey.html
Baliynagarnan is mentioned in the second listing.
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I am sorry for breaking it up ,but hope this helps
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There are 7 children registered in Fintona to a Francis McCarney and Ann Donnelly
Michael 1870
Mary Ann 1871
Catherine 1873
Francis 1875
Rose 1878
Patrick 1880
Elizabeth Jane 1883
Very often the children are named in a pattern...
1st son named after his paternal grandfather..i.e. Michael
2nd son named after his father...i.e. Francis
3rd son named after his maternal grandfather
Ist daughter named after her maternal grandmother
2nd daughter named after her mother
3rd daughter named after her maternal grandmother
The first daughter here is Mary Ann...so there's a chance that Mary is her paternal grandmother's name....it's not an exact science!!!
There is a widow Rose McCarney living in the same townland in 1901...could she be Francis's mother??
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Tyrone/Draughton/Aghafad/1742987/
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Tyrone/Draughton/Lackagh/1743066/
Lackagh is pronounced Lacca ...this probably explains the confusion in the spelling of the name.
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Hi I have some info, but not all jointed together.So I will do it over a few postings so as not to over load the picture allowance!First I will show the oldest grave of this family group in Donacavey ,the reason for this is to try and explain where they came from?This is very much up in the air ,but the O Cairney seems to come from the Donegal area and points to Derry (this is only speculation)
This is a reply to my own speculation,maybe with more questions than answers!The MC Carney name and all variants of the spelling,have multiple origins.Possibly five different beginnings or tribal origins.The names meaning being,victorious.The name in the northwest area of Derry /Inishowen is most likely descended from the Northern O Neill with close links to St Colmcille and the Fox surname.This groups most likely Y DNA group should be showing as a sub R1b know as R-M222?
The next group (which is more probable for me)as yet unfollowed up.This group is a sub group of the O Hanlon family group,who are part of a larger family group or tribe of people's who cover a very large area of southern Ulster and are collectively know as Oriel ( Airgíalla) again an R1b group,but not descended directly from the O Neill linage but related to it.After checking the Y DNA of family's of this group,most bearing Oriel names ,McGuire,O,Hanlon,Devine,MC Carneyetc ,etc return the bulk of individuals show R-M269, some references to the null 425?
There is a family group in Letrim and I tried to find their Y DNA group but with no luck.
The Lenister family group who are very likely again of O Neill Origin?
Some reading for anyone following very early family lines with the use of the Y marker,I would like to hear any ones views .Again this is all guess work and speculation ,but makes very interesting reading,once you get an understanding of the group and tribal areas?
http://www.mcmahonsofmonaghan.org/the_mcmahon_story.html
http://magoo.com/hugh/airghialla.html#colla
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airg%C3%ADalla
http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~amaguire/oriel.htm
https://www.igenea.com/en/surname-projects/c/clan-colla-425-null-699
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Posted on behalf of SPW who sent the reply to me in error.
Hi
I just want to Thank You for this Info. You are right this is very interesting . If you find any thing else Please send it a long.
You never know, It all ways can had some missing pieces in someones Mc Carney family tree.
I'm still looking for Mrs. Mc Carney.
spw