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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Buckinghamshire => Topic started by: nicholpope on Sunday 17 June 12 17:33 BST (UK)
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Hi
can anyone help me find the marriage of Emily Goldswain and John Stevens around 1881, they was living together in 1891 in camberwell, but emily is from great marlow
thankyou
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Can you give the 1891 details please.
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Found them on latest census they say married 30 years but cant find a marriage.And Emily is a servant in Camberwell 1881 census and single.
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They had their first child in 1882 so 1881/2 must be when they married. I know this is the correct couple as I have their names on a birth certificate
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Hi
I have also found the same information as Isobel, no marriage although I can see
Emily in the 1881 as a servant and she is aged 21. In the 1871 she is with her
parents Stephen and Grace and siblings.
Is there anything on the marriage certificate you want to know or is it just that
you want to see them married? I have looked on my paid for sites, alot of Family trees
and non of those have her married. Some of her family seem to move to Wales. They
could have lived as a married couple without having a marriage certificate so
it was possible in those days to "live over the brush" as they used to call it.
If they lived together for at least 30 years then in my mind they were married.
regards Sandymc
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i am trying to find the parents of John Stevens, the marriage would have given clues.
thanks for your help
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Hi Every one,
Since this post i have not been able to trace the Stevens tree back any further.
Would anyone be able to help me break through this barrier?
Thank you
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What i Know of john with Emily:
1891 - 54 Ulverscrift Road, Camberwell, London
Head - John - 39 - Lancashire Whitby
Wife - Emily - 37 - Berkshire Great Marlow
Dau - Jane - 8 - Dulwich, London
Dau - Lydia- 6 - Dulwich, London
Son- John- 3 - Dulwich, London
Son- James- 1 - Dulwich, London
1901 - 54 Ulverscrift Road, Camberwell, London
Head - John - 49 - Liverpool
Wife - Emily - 47 - Berkshire Great Marlow
Dau - Lilly- 17 - Dulwich, London
Son- John- 13 - Dulwich, London
Son- James- 12 - Dulwich, London
Dau - Emily- 8 - Dulwich, London
Dau - Agnes- 6 - Dulwich, London
Dau - Grace Margaret - 4 - Dulwich, London
Dau - Ider - 2 - Dulwich, London
1911 - 144 Landcroft Road (Top Floor), Camberwell, London
Head - John - 60 - Liverpool
Wife - Emily - 57 - Berkshire Great Marlow
Son- John- 23 - Dulwich, London
Son- James- 21 - Dulwich, London
Dau - Emily- 18 - Dulwich, London
Son - Augustus - 16 - Dulwich, London
Dau - Grace - 13 - Dulwich, London
Dau - Ada- 11 - Dulwich, London
Dau - Elsie - 11 - Dulwich, London
Son - Harry - 9 - Dulwich, London
Dau - Frances- 7 - Dulwich, London
Son - Charles- 5 - Dulwich, London
Visitor - Julia Thompson - 21 - Dulwich, London
John and Emily married 30 years with 14 children 12 still alive.
Thanks
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John Stevens b.1851, Widnes, Lancashire. Is in Camberwell in 1881 census, as a labourer.
First apparent child, Jane Stevens, born 1883 in Dulwich, (as you've mentioned).
There is a possible marriage. J/F/M 1882. Kensington. Vol.1a. Page.72.
BUT......two grooms and one bride listed. John STEVENS, John Russell & Jane Gray.
Considering John Stevens first child was Jane, there is a census entry in 1861, for a John STEVENS b1849. Liverpool, with a widowed mother. Jane STEVENS, c.1815. Castletown, Isle of Man.
Is Whitty/Whitby in 1891 census........mistaken for Widnes, in the 1881 census. or vice versa. ???
Steve. :)
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Jane STEPHENS c1817, Catletown, I.o.M, is a visitor to James GARDINER c1831. Burbrook, Northants. in 1871 census.
Steve. :)
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Coming from Yorkshire I thought there was only one Whitby on the coast where
I have spent a few holidays.
I was looking for someones ancestors in Lancashire the other day and low
and behold I saw a Whitby. It was near Widnes. Probably just a small place.
A shock for us Yorkshire folk lol
regards Sandymc
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Coming from Yorkshire I thought there was only one Whitby on the coast where
I have spent a few holidays.
I was looking for someones ancestors in Lancashire the other day and low
and behold I saw a Whitby. It was near Widnes. Probably just a small place.
A shock for us Yorkshire folk lol
regards Sandymc
Is that the Whitby, that's near Ellesmere Port. ;)
Steve. :)
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Just looked up this marrage on FreeBMD and they are showing another woman
Marriages Mar 1882 (>99%)
GRAY Jane Kensington 1a 72 Scan available - click to view
Manley Elizabeth Kensington 1a 72 Scan available - click to view
RUSSELL John Kensington 1a 72 Scan available - click to view
STEVENS John Kensington 1a 72 Scan available - click to view
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I'm thinking this should be Widnes as it is followed by Lancashire and i don't think that there is a Whitby in Lancashire.
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Have you found a death for John Stevens, to make it possible to nail down his year of birth.
There is one that seems feasible. J/F/M - 1923. Wandsworth. Vol.1d Page.528. age at death.75. Which would give his birth year as 1848.
Steve. :)
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As mentioned before your last post Nicholpope there is a Whitby in Lancashire
Its 9 miles SW of Widnes and is not the Whitby in North Yorkshire where I
went for my holidays. Thats why I said I was surprised there was one. :o
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Sorry Sandy must have read wrong, thank you for this information.
Steve, no at the moment no death identified, i do however have him on the electoral registers up to 1918 at 142 Landcroft road, Dulwich, Camberwell. it looks like Emily stayed at that address to at least 1933.
unfortunately i do not have access to ancestry at the moment to review the electoral records again to see if i have missed any. - something i will do when i can.
So at the moment i would guess he passed away around 1918.
Thank you
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Not all electoral rolls survive, so it's entirely possible he survived past 1918.
I have electoral rolls for some of my rellies, from 1907 - 1935, and there are quite a few gaps. So do not assume he died close to 1918, but I suppose he could have.
You will need to find his death, to ascertain his age, and purchase the death cert. The one I found would be a starting place, and hopefully it's the right one. The informant on the death cert should confirm if he's the one, but it's not always the case with informants.
At least then, it will be easier to track down the place of his actual birth, once his age has been established.
Steve. :)
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Thanks Steve,
Will look into that one. ;D
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I'm like a dog with a bone. ;D
In IGI(Familysearch), there is a christening for a John Stevens. 30 June 1848. Liverpool. Father - Alexr. Stevens, mother Jane Higgins.
In the 1851 census, there is an Alick Stevens c1815. Liverpool, with wife Jane c1826. Liverpool.
Apparent son John Stevens c1849. Isle of Man. All living in Toxteth Park, Liverpool.
Death for Alexander Stevens - J/A/S-1852. West Derby. Vol.8b. page.286.
One for your notes, I think. ;)
Steve. :)
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thanks for all the help you are providing :)
John 1848 had two sisters on the IGI which from google'ing the batch number seems to be Stanhope Street church, near/in toxteth park.
these are:
Sarah Jane Stevens 27 Oct 1845
Jane Stevens 17 Nov 1851
i have looked into this and found john on an 1881 census which matched the john below.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XQDK-J6C
Only problem with this is that i have an 1881 census for who i thought is my john
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XQQC-69B
??? .......
would be interested in seeing where john 1848 is in 1891 to see if i have my john wrong ~ just a bit strange with the whitby widnes thing in 1881 and 1891 then he just listed liverpool after that.
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The John STEPHENS, widower,(Occ.Hatter) in your first find, is also in the 1871 census, but his and his mother Jane's, place of birth is given as Liverpool. ???
Margaret Stephens c1873. Birkenhead, who appears with them in 1881 census, appears again in 1891 census, with father John A Stephens. So he can be discounted, I think. ;)
He also appears in 1901 & 1911 census, with apparent new wife, Elizabeth(c1858. St Helens), and children........Arthur, Alice, Elizabeth & Lelian/Lilian. He is a Hatters assistant in both census.
Steve. :)
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Hi, I have found a 1921 electoral roll entry for Emily and her son Augustus at 142 Landcroft Road, so probably Emily was widowed by this time as you suspect. However, the only death that I can find that seems about right is John STEPHENS 1920, Camberwell, 4Q, vol.1d pg.908. Age at death 69yrs.
By the way my brother-in-law is also descended from Stephen and Grace Goldswain through Emily's brother, Wyatt George Goldswain. :D
Regards, Denise
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Hi Denise,
thanks for this info age is right.. wonder if there is a national probate record that would back this up?
I am doing this for my friend Nina Stevens but good to know someone else with the same link.
Do you have any information on Emily's marriage or why she moved to camberwell to be a servant in 1881?
Thanks
Nichol
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Haven't been able to find a probate record yet.
Sorry, I have no more info on Emily or why she moved away from Marlow.
Denise
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Hi Denise,
Did you ever get anywhere with this one... still at a dead end!
using www.lancashirebmd.org.uk i just found the following:
1851
STEVENS
John
Western Bolton
Bolton
FINLON
WB/22/114