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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Antrim => Topic started by: dalek39 on Saturday 23 June 12 08:04 BST (UK)
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As I have completed the James Nelson thread.. Do I start another thread...or continue on with that one...... I am after a birth record .if thats possible....He was born in 1840-1 ..Shankill Antrim Belfast.. religion..Protestant.. Father also James Nelson..mother unknown.
I see there is a Shankill Parish Belfast Register...1745 - 1761.. is there someone who can do a look-up please.. I do not have further information on him unfortunately, but hopeful there is some kind person able to assist. :-* :)
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The James Nelson topic was on the AUSTRALIA board so it's fine starting a new topic on ANTRIM board looking for details.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,421485.0.html
To search for church records you'd need to know what religious denomination the family were in Ireland- Church of Ireland, Presbyterian, etc.
The church records you are asking about are mentioned in this thread-
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,254673.0.html
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Thanks Aghadowey...will try that site..unfortunately I only know he was protestant...not what type..as no one left in the family but me...I think he may have been Presbyterian..but not sure... I do have his records from enlistment into the "buffs" 3rd Regiment of Kent..but it only states he was protestant..they don't make it easy...anyway, I'll see what I can come up with..thanks for you help... :)
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Unfortunately there are lots of Presbyterian churches in Belfast and I suspect that not all will have records far enough back which could make your search extremely difficult.
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Ive come to that conclusion also...I did find a James Nelson..Publican..Belfast, (Proni) and other Nelsons in the area, also Publicans.. who may be his brothers, but no proof unfortunately.. The only source I think is to try and get his enlistment papers, ie records when he joined the "Buffs", in 1858....3rd Regiment of Kent ,,stationed at Canterbury at the time...thats another challenge.. ;D anyway..thanks for you help..much appreciated... :) as you can see..not one to give up easily... Dalek.
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I have just found Griffith's Valuation of Shankill County Antrim, Ireland..with the names of Nelson and street adresses...This is where my James was born apparently, by his convict records... I see a James and Jane of Smithfield, Townparks Winetavern St...(both with same address,
Was it the custom in that era for families to live in close proximity to each other...
I also saw a James Nelson Publican. 21 Union St...and a Roger Nelson..Publican..23 Union St. what are the chances of these being brothers...I know its only speculation , but its the coincidence here.. just someones else's opinion.... ???
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Can someone tell me if the Punch Bowl Tavern..84 Hercules Street..now known as Royal Ave, Belfast...still exists...I would be surprised, but one never knows..thanks .. :)
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Can someone tell me if the Punch Bowl Tavern..84 Hercules Street..now known as Royal Ave, Belfast...still exists...I would be surprised, but one never knows..thanks .. :)
WHAT DATE?
1861 the property is vacant. 1877-1880 occupied by Williamson Brothers (tanners & curriers). 1901 not listed.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,369534.0.html
If you want to see present-day Royal Avenue try Google Streetview.
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Thanks for all that...will have a look at that site you gave....as far as Date goes..think it may have been around 1835 give or take..I never saw a date on the listing. will try and find what site I was on..
Re James religion..it said on his convict papers he was Protestant..thats all.. I can't help you any more than that..sorry... I've sent off for a few records, re his stay in the "Buffs" maybe that may show more light...crossa da fingers.... ;D
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Thanks Aghadowey..great site...plenty to search there. :)
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Aghadowey...
That site you gave me..Lennon Wylie.....I found a James Nelson..in 1843..( my James born 1840-1) 21 Union Street..Belfast..and a Roger Nelson..Publican 23 Union Street...As my James , on his marriage certificate..stated his father was a Publican... I feel this connection of James and Roger could be brothers.. also found a George Nelson..Publican..108 Great George St..Belfast..not sure of exact date there, but my James named his first son George...funny that..anyway..as I have no proof of all this, and not likely to, other than this..what do you suggest? I also found a Rev Isaac Nelson in the 1843 directory..maybe related..he was a Presbyterian minister.. (protestant) will have to check on what denomination my James was..will contact the cemetery in Adelaide SA..Maybe they will know on their records... ::) :)
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Neilson..is this a pre-runner to the name Nelson..and is Neill a pre-runner to Neilson..as in son of Neill...I see on the Lennons Directory, listed Nelsons by date, goes back to 1805..known as Neilson..no Nelsons..and there is a Neilson William..Watchmaker..210 North St..and a Robert Neill..Watchmaker..1 High St.. Interesting... could they be father and son.... ::) :)
Just a matter of interest..I had hand surgery a couple of years ago, thing called Dupertrons (spelling) Restricture..and my Plastic surgeon said it comes from the Scandanavion decent..never knew that..now I wonder...
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You say you have split my thread into two..., can you explain please...where the 2nd one is..bit confused sorry.. ??? :) end of the day..nice girl..not too bright...
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For some reason you posted a reply on Resources board- I split that post from the topic and put it on this topic where it belongs - see reply #10.
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Don't know what happened there..maybe sleep depriviation.had the grandogs the weekend...going home tonight..hoo-rah.
Ive had a good look at the Lennon Wylie site......Interesting enough, they start being Nelsons, as spelt, from 1819 on ... 1805. to 1808..there were Neilsons..and Neill , as in son of Neill... no Nelsons... same occupation etc..living in the same area....can Nelson be be a derivative of Neilson..Neill......Interesting to know your thoughts on that....
Also...My GGrandad, joined the "Buffs" in 1858..in Canterbury..England. have to look and see if the family moved from Belfast to England around that time, maybe 1850 +..just a thought.. my problem...not yours..ha.. ;D
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Any chance of getting a site for passenger lists from Ireland to England around 1857-8 thanks. :)
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Hi,
In those days Ireland was part of the UK so there are no passenger lists. It was just normal travel within the country.
Regards
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Thanks very much for that...will try and find something somewhere. Having a few problems with my computer at present ,so please bear with me till I get it sorted... ::)
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I have a birth place..Shankill Belfast ..and Shankill Antrim Belfast..is there a difference....and are there records for Shankill only...ta..
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Hi,
Shankill is an area of Belfast in the County of Antrim. Unfortunately there are many churches in Shankill Parish.
Regards
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Thanks for that, I just needed to know if it was a different area..
Churches...forget it...thats a difficult one. ;D :) anyway, thank you very much.
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Hi Jennifer/dalek39 I see you have been very active on many boards http://www.belfastforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=29304.0
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=603841.0
http://www.genealogy.com/forum/regional/countries/topics/ireland/82475/
www.GenesReunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1352926 and on
Rootsweb itself
To stop another board being started I am answering you here.
You have breached through your first brickwall To summarise your existing knowledge
before 1853.
James Nelson b ~1798-99 or b~ 1790-91 deduced from 1858 information that showed ages of NOK. You think he was a publican, but you also know that later descendants were shoemakers.
children
James Nelson b ~1841
So focusing on Belfast records say before 1853, and starting with Street Directories, read about them in 'Guide to Belfast and Ulster Street Directories 1805-1914’ published 2008 in electronic form by the Library and Information Services Council (Northern Ireland) [LISC(NI)]. The Guide was produced by the Local History Panel of the Council and includes a chronological list of street and trade directories with their locations as well as an alphabetical listing of towns and villages together with the directory in which they appear. There is also a very informative introduction to street directories. You can view or download LISC guide to street directories (324KB) from the LISC website .’
My conclusion was to try to remember that they vary in accuracy and content, and regularly missed poorer people.
Online as you know are
1. http://www.lennonwylie.co.uk which for Belfast has has 1805 complete, 1806 complete,1807 complete, 1808 complete, 1819 complete, 1843 complete,
1852 complete.
2. http://www.proni.gov.uk which for Belfast has
Bradshaw's General and Commercial Directory for 1819
Belfast Directory 1831-32
Matier's Belfast Directory 1835-36
Martin's Belfast Directory 1839
Martin's Belfast Directory 1841-42
Martin's Belfast Directory 1842-43
Henderson's New Belfast and Northern Repository 1843-44
Henderson's Belfast Directory and Northern Repository 1846-47
Henderson's Belfast Directory and Northern Repository 1850
The Belfast and Province of Ulster Directory 1852
Henderson's Belfast Directory and Northern Repository 1852
Starting on mary lennons great website http://www.lennonwylie.co.uk
Directory 1805 has no Nelson
Directory 1806 , 1807 have
Neilson, Ann, haberdasher, 56 High street.
Neilson, William, watchmaker, 201 North street.
in 1808
Neilson, Ann, haberdasher, 99 High Street
Neilson, Robert, & Co., linen merchants, Fountain Street
Neilson, William, watch maker, 205 North Street
1819 directory shows a new much more detailed approach
Nelson, Mrs. M., 11 Donegall Square
Nelson, Mariot, coal measurer, 38 James's Street
Nelson, Andrew, tobacco spinner, 1 Daniel Street
Nelson, John, cooper, 49 Lancaster Street
Nelson, John, merchant; house, Lower Arthur Street
Nelson, Francis, huxter, 11 Charlemont Row
Nelson, James, hide commissioner, 17 Carrick Hill
Nelson, Joseph, carpenter, 22 William Street
your James father would be 19 or 29, he might be the James above or living with any of the other above, or his in laws not noted above.
1843 directory
Nelson, Samuel, West India Merchant, Office, 16 White Linenhall, residence, Monkshill Farm.
Nelson, Joseph, Esq., Barrister, 9 May Street & 28 Upper Gloucester Street, Dublin.
Nelson, William, Clothes Dealer, 26 Berry Street.
Nelson, Rodger, Publican, 23 Union Street.
Nelson, Eliza, 10 Mustard Street.
Nelson, George, Haberdasher, 30b Ann Street.
Nelson, G., Entertainment, 49 Edward Street.
Nelson, George, Tailor, 12 Pottinger's Entry.
Nelson, James, 21 Union Street.
Nelson, Jane, Dealer, 25 Wine Tavern Street.
So the only possible connection from this directory is to a
James Nelson of 21 Union Street
However PROBLEM! looking up 21 Union St doesn’t find him. I was looking for his trade, anyway under Tavernkeepersand Publicans there is a Rodgers Nelson of 23 Union Street
1853 directory
Nelson, James, tailor, 42 Durham Street
Nelson, James, shoe maker, 35 Stanley Street
Nelson, James, smith and chain maker, 36 Winetavern Street
Wow ! over to you, possible rethink required
The other online directories at PRONI need to be searched one by one.
Good luck JimG
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You could have saved your self a lot of searching and typing as there's already a topic re: directories, etc. for James Nelson-
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=697394.18
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Re James Nelson...Thank you so much Jim .. its very helpful to me to see it all down in order...you seem to have gone out of your way, many don't..so I do appreciate your effort ..after all we are doing this as a "hobby", .... and being a senior,we don't always get it right the first time..as some expect you to do...Yes..I have been on many threads, and come across some very helpful folk..unfortunately not all are in that category..If this had been given to me in the early days, it would have saved me and others a lot of time... One catches more flies with honey than with vinegar.....Once again Jim...thank you.. :)
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Can someone tell me please what Sa Ad Victoria is on a birth certificate.
George Henry Nelson. B 1876 Sa Ad Victoria...mother Mary Jane Nelson..father U thanks Dalek
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Is that an abreviation from the birth index? if so, best to ask on Australian board. Don't you have a Nelson thread there already?
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It was a border dispute, your irish background George must have been born in a 2mile wide corridor that came about accidently while surveying difficult ground that took place earlier between the South Australian colony and the Victoria colony. South Australia eventually paid damages to Victoria. see wikipeadia. It reminds me of a hairy subject glossed over as the Northern ireland border was set, but settled because of the accuracy of the Ordnance Survey maps of ireland, even though some strange results occurred.
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If it was in that South Australia/Victoria region would the entry not be more likely to read So rather than Sa? Still think it's worth asking on the Australia board.
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My sincere apologies for that last post...not well...thought I WAS on the Australian thread...its an Aus BDM I was after...found it, so sorry to put that on you..nice girl..not too bright today.... ::)