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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Armagh => Topic started by: AirtinHame on Sunday 01 July 12 07:50 BST (UK)
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I have read this board extensively over the past few hours and find myself even more confused than before so hope someone out there can help. William Henry died in the Battle of The Somme, that much is clear frpm the Banbridge War Memorial which records him as
Pentland William H; Private Royal Irish Fusiliers, Mary Street and the CWGC website confirmed his age as 45 and that he is commemorated on a memorial in France.
One researcher seemed to suggest he was the son of George Pentland and Ann Miller who are buried in Tandragee and another that he is buried in Mullavilly.
The Civil Birth Records appear to show his date of Birth as 27 May 1871; Name William Pentland, Gender Male, Fathers Name George Pentland Mothers Forenames Annie Mothers Maiden Name Hara Civil District Lurgan Sub District Portadown County Armagh Birthplace 815, Portadown, Arm, IRE which suggest the researcher above has misinterpreted the situation.
The burial reports and the apparent extract from local records, however, do not match the 1871 census which appears to show the family in Aldershot and William Henry's birthplace as Hants/Aldershot. He repeated this assertion when he was recorded with his wife in the 1911 census.
Since William Henry was reported by his father to be five months old when the census was taken on 2nd April 1871 he cannot be the William Henry in the above extract. As he died in France he cannot be buried in Ireland.
His mother's Christian name seems to be universally acclaimed as Annie but was her surname Hara, O'Hara or Miller?. His father was also generally accepted as George Pentland but here things appear confused again. According to the census George was in Aldershot in 1871 but according to the website Tandragee-online he was elsewhere:
George Pentland, 2nd Bn., Cheshire Regiment, was born in Ireland about 1829. In 1851 he was stationed in Mauritania, Africa; in 1870 at Aldershot; and in 1871 at the Regiment’s Headquarters at Chester Castle. His wife Ann, who was also born in Ireland, died in 1876. George died in 1893, aged 64, and he is buried in Mullavilly Parish churchyard. One of his sons, William Henry, was killed in action during the First World War..
Any help clearing the murk would be much appreciated.
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Just a few thoughts-
What's listed as father's occupation on 1871 birth certificate?
Are there marriage records for George Pentland and Ann Hara?
It's possible that he was commemorated on a headstone in Ireland but not actually buried in that place.
For reference here's the 1911 census entry-
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Armagh/Carrowbrack/Killycomain/298181/
Where was William Henry Pentland in 1901?
Have you found George Pentland and family in census records after 1871?
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Hi,
George Pentland married Ann O'HARA in Seagoe Church of Ireland, Lurgan on 15 Mar 1850.
Regards
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There was a William Pentland born to father George and mother Annie Hard (possibly mistranscribed?) on the 27th May 1871 and baptised on the 2nd June 1871, the address was Killicomaine, Portadown, County Armagh. Critically, father George's occupation was given as weaver.
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There is a headstone in Mullavilly church which states that Ann Pentland died 8th July 1876 aged 45, her husband George died at Ballylisk on the 25th March 1893. The headstone also states that their son, W H Pentland died on the 1st July 1916, aged 45. There are another three people listed on the stone, Elizabeth Whiteside died 1940, Samuel Redpath died 1931 and an Olive Redpath died 1957.
Even though WH Pentland is listed on the stone it does not mean he is buried here it does not say 'interred' - the stone only says Sacred to the memory of....
Hope this helps,
Aljepeka
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With regard to the 1911 census entry for William Henry Pentland, a likely marriage record is one on the 14th January 1908 in St Mark's Church of Ireland Portadown to Mary Anne Whitten, both his and her address given as Mary St. Portadown, his father recorded as George Pentland, a weaver.
BTW, in respect of the previous 27th May 1871 birth record for a William Pentland, I should add that father George was the informant...
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Hi,
It is quite usual to find that men who died in WW1 and are buried in France/Belgium are commemmorated on their parents' headstone. Two of my uncles and a cousin of theirs are commemorated in the graveyard of Dungiven Parish church but my uncles bodies were never identified and lie somewhere in France.
Regards
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There are two records for a George Pentland marriage to an Ann that I know of. One to Ann O'Hara in 1850, the other to an Ann Millar in 1852.
The Elizabeth Whitside lady already mentioned was born in Malta in 1862, daughter of George and Ann Pendleton, George was in the 2nd. Battalion, 22nd regiment. It would appear that Elizabeth had a son, for some unknown reason, with surname Pentland, he was called Joshua and I quote, "Private Joshua Pentland, 16424, Royal Irish Fusiliers, from Church View Terrace, Mullavilly, served in both World Wars. He served in France from 4 October 1915. On 27 March 1918 he was captured by the Germans and held as a POW until the end of the war. During the 1920s he served as an Instructor to the 'B' Specials and was stationed at Poyntzpass, Tyrones Ditches, Tandragee and Clare. He later emigrated to Canada but returned home in 1934 after 5 years. He died in 1974, aged 84."
Elizabeth Whiteside had a brother also born in Malta, Thomas James Pentland, born 1863.
There was a George Pentland who was stationed in Mauritania in 1851, so it is rather unlikely that this George was the same Georges who married the two Anns in 1850 and 1852.
Perhaps the above George was just another army George Pentland and with no direct connection to the other two Georges above.
David
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"There are two records for a George Pentland marriage to an Ann that I know of. One to Ann O'Hara in 1850, the other to an Ann Millar in 1852."
So far as I can see there were two Georges. The second married Ann Millar in Kilmore Co. Down in 1853 but nothing more is known of this couple.
The Pentland O'Hara marriage, however, is documented.
"The Elizabeth Whitside lady already mentioned was born in Malta in 1862, daughter of George and Ann Pendleton, George was in the 2nd. Battalion, 22nd regiment. It would appear that Elizabeth had a son, for some unknown reason, with surname Pentland, he was called Joshua ..."
I think the reason Joshua was a Pentland is the oldest known to man - his mother and father failed to marry.
"There was a George Pentland who was stationed in Mauritania in 1851"
I'd be very interested to hear more about the source of this information.
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I thought the same about the Whiteside lady but how did she get called Whiteside? Presume she had Joshua and then married a gent. called Whiteside.
Here is the link for the Mauritania information,
http://www.tandrageeonline.com/page.php?id=167&PHPSESSID=8a46dcf0628109445ed8d19016f66d82
It rather confirms the Pentland Aldershot birth.
David
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Thanks for that, if I had looked more carefully at my own records I'd have found the Tandragee Remembers entry. An excellent site and reasonably accurate but the Cheshire Regimental history has more detail: "The 22nd (The Cheshire) Regiment of Foot was in two battalions. The 1st battalion were serving in India in 1851 when they were presented with new colours and returned to England from India in 1855. In 1869 the battalion was moved to India. The second battalion was sent to Malta in 1859; in July 1865 it was sent to Gibraltar, but the same month redirected to the Mauritius, returning to England in July 1867. I claim no expertise in things military but understood the usual practice was for one battalion to be home based while the other served overseas which would mean George was in Parkhurst, the home base in 1851. I have been able to find record of service for the battalion in Mauritius but not in Mauritania but perhaps someone elase has had more luck.
Elizabeth Pentland was enumerated in both 1901 and 1911 censuses as Elizabeth Whiteside with son Joshua Pentland and daughter Olive Whiteside. I have not found a marriage between Elizabeth Pentland and anyone called Whiteside suggesting her second child was, like the first, illegitimate but her father's name was Whiteside.
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The British army travelled far and wide but my guess is that they did not make it to Mauritania, perhaps there was a mistake on the Tandragee site and it should really be Mauritius.
I had forgotten about Olive Whiteside, there was a record of an Olive Lewis being married to a John Pentland in 1868, perhaps there is a connection.
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to aljepeka
I'd be interested in sorting out who Olive Redpath is and whether she is related to the Pentland family mentioned below.
"There is a headstone in Mullavilly church which states that Ann Pentland died 8th July 1876 aged 45, her husband George died at Ballylisk on the 25th March 1893. The headstone also states that their son, W H Pentland died on the 1st July 1916, aged 45. There are another three people listed on the stone, Elizabeth Whiteside died 1940, Samuel Redpath died 1931 and an Olive Redpath died 1957. "
Given they are buried together, you'd think there is some relationship. I found this about their daughter.. Dorcas. Apparently Samuel and Olive were married.
Private Dorcas Redpath [see image below], Auxiliary Territorial Service, is the daughter of the late Samuel and Olive Redpath, Cochrane’s Hill, Laurelvale. She enlisted at the same time as Mildred Trueman. Part of her service was spent in Stirling, Scotland, and after the war she settled in England.
Do you think Olive is the daughter of George and Ann?
Thanks,
Roxanna
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to Alegou,
Do you think this is the Joshua Pentland that married Ellen Robb in 1920 at Kilmore?
I have a ship's record with the following information?
SS Andania
sailing from Belfast, May 25th, 1929 arriving at Quebec June 2, 1929
Ellen Pentland 29, housewife, going to husband, Mr. John Pentland at 115 Barrill Street, Oshawa, Ontario, nearest relative in IReland, Mrs. J. Robb at Lisavague, Portadown, has $50 and considered a landed immigrant
Margaret 7
James Walker 4
William 2
Ellen paid for the passages,
Thanks,
Roxanna
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to Worldlywanderer,
Could it be that Elizabeth Pentland's maiden name is Pentland and that Joshua Pentland was perhaps born out of marriage, and Olive was born after a marriage - the reverse of what you suggested.
In the census, she is listed as married.
Thanks,
Roxanna
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to Alegou,
You had posted Elizabeth Whiteside had a brother also born in Malta, Thomas James Pentland, born 1863.
Do you have any record on that, or could you tell me how to find it.
Thanks much,
Roxanna
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Hi Roxanna,
I sent you a pm .
Hope you are keeping well. Been a while from we were last in contact.
Barbara :-)