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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Hertfordshire => Topic started by: jtas on Sunday 01 July 12 14:10 BST (UK)
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Hi
I am researching my dad`s side of the family at the moment, i recently found the grave of his grandfather William Ward and his wife Jessie, he passed away sept 21st 1953 aged 79 and his wife, June 4th 1955 aged 66. I have tried finding them in the 1911 census as i know that they were married in 1910 but they are not to be found. My dad`s father, Arthur William Ward was born around 1908 , so i assume jessie was his step mother. Again i am having trouble confirming where he was born. Is there any rootschatters doing the same line or have any information about them. i would like to find out what his occupation was and where they lived. I look forward to hopefully some new leads.
Thank you
jackie
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Where was this 1910 marriage?
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Hi pauline
This marriage was in Watford, her maiden name was Williamson and they did live in Rosenbury road, Bushey Heath. It would be nice if there is a relative out there who is researching the same people and may have pictures of them.
Thank you for your quick reply
jackie
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Hi Jackie
Have you got any written documentation for any of your family?
Ray
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Hi I believe that the marriage of a Jessie Williamson with a William J Ward on the same page in Sept 1910 Watford, was not the pairing that married, I think she married the Frederick H Chapman?
I think she is the Jessie Williamson b c 1887 Rickmansworth with parents Alfred George and Eliza Ann
These Ward births in Watford with mothers maiden name Williamson:-
Daniel 1915
Arthur 1917
Mabel 1920
Keyboard86
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Totally agree with you.
That's why I ask what actual docts are in existence/ been obtained.
I can only find Martha Stallybrass-Ward's family fitting what has been described [ish].
Why assume "step" . . . . . ?
R
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Here's Martha's death - can only suggest some sort of marital breakdown
Martha S Ward
Born c 1880
death Apr-May-Jun 1957, aged 77
Hitchin Volume 4b, page 92
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Hi Everybody,
I can confirm that the grave i found in St.james grave yard for William and Jessie Ward are my great grand parents. I also found those Ward births with the mother`s maiden name Williamson. The Chapman lady also gave birth to two children and her maiden name was Jessie Williamson. I also found Martha stally brass ward with the Arthur William Ward born 1909 and i thought that could be my grandfather, but there are the deaths of her and a William Ward in Hitchin.
I did check in kelly Street directory and that gave William and Jessie Ward. My uncle seems to think that his grandfather had married twice. I know that i need to get some proof but i dont want to spend a fortune on purchasing the wrong certificates.
Has anyone else got any further suggestions, i did try looking at the Gertrude lowe lady but it doesnt seem to fit.
thanks
Jackie
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Hi Jackie
How do you "know" the 1910 marriage?
Ray
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Hi Ray
I did some further research after my posting and the Williamson births for the Wards are actually Jessie`s sister Mabel Williamson who married Daniel Ward in 1903 , so that eliminates that problem. It also confirms that Jessie married Mr Chapman and she can be found on the 1911 census at home with her widowed mother in Rickmansworth.
The problem is this leaves Gertrude Lowe as the supposed wife of William Ward, but i still cant locate them in the 1911 census, i assume if this is correct maybe her middle name was jessie and she used that instead of Gertrude.
Is there anyone else related to either party who can help with this problem, is anyone going over to hertford that could double check the Electoral Rolls for the 1920`s-1930 for Rosenbery Road as it may give further clues.
Thank you for your help,
Jackie
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Hi Jackie
"Rosenbery / Rosenbury Road"
As you have spelled it in different ways, may I ask where have you got this piece of info from?
I think that you may mean "Rosebery Road"
which can (now) be found off School Lane off Sparrows Herne
Ray
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Hi Ray
Sorry about my spelling, yes that is the road and my dad and his brother said that is where they lived. I also checked in the Kelly street directory and that confimed they lived at number 7. I am starting to wonder if perhaps Jessie was not her first name, my grandmother was christened Lydia but she was known as Eva. I have tried all sorts of combinations on Findmypast to try and locate them in the 1911 census but to no avail. Have you got access to Ancestry as their is someone with a possible match.
Look forward to hearing from you soon.
jackie
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1914 Kelly's lists 3xWmWard in Watford.
W Ward, Builder, ENSOR & WARD
W Ward, Tobacconist, 189 High Street
W A Ward, Apartments, 1 Gladstone Road
Ray
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Jackie
I have access to Ancestry if you want something checked, but I think in a case like this, where there is obviously some confusion about who exactly is related to who, then certificates are the only way you can go.
Antony
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;D
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Apologies, I have removed the 1911 reference to William/Gertrude.
William Ward and Gertrude Lowe are the other couple mentioned on the 1910 marriage record at Watford (Q3 vol 3A p1726), previously referred to.
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hi AnthonyM
MM
On freebmd there is another match on the page q3 vol3A p17726 of a mr greenman , i think that this is the person who married Gertude, Jessie williamson definitely married Mr.Chapman,they are on the 1911 census with her mother at Rickmansworth. That just leaves William Ward without a match. Is there any William J ward with a wife Jessie on Ancestry. I have tried various combinations but i dont seem to be able to find them in the 1911 census. My grandfather Arthur william Ward born 1908 ,changed his name around when he got married in 1929 and then on my dad`s wedding certificate he is back to being arthur.
Thank you for your help
Jackie
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Hi Jackie
The Mr Greenman on the BMD index is possibly a mistake as he was married in Hemel Hempstead, could be a transcription error on the page number.
I have been doing a bit of digging around & I think I may have found your William & Jessie's marriage although not in 1910. :) Stick with me & I'll try to explain.
A William Ward married Jessie Frost March qtr 1919 Watford, 3a 1430.
From the info you have already given with regard to Jessie's death her birth would be 1888/89 so I checked out any Jessie's born about then in Bushey. I found a Jessie Gascoigne born c1889 in Bushey on the 1901 census, parents Thomas & Sarah.
I then found what I thought could be her marriage to a George James Frost Sept qtr 1907 Watford 3a 1672.
Hopefully you should be able to find James & Jessie Frost in the 1911.
Thinking perhaps James Frost had died I checked the CWGC site in case he had died during WW1.
http://www.cwgc.org/search-for-war-dead/casualty/750324/FROST,%20JAMES%20GEORGE
Fingers crossed the link works & you can see that he died in 1916 on the Somme & his wife was Jessie of 7 Rosebery Road Bushey.
Hope this all fits with your info, now we just have to find William Ward born c1874 & your Grandfather Arthur William Ward. :-\
Would you by any chance know if Arthur William had any siblings.
Maddie
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Hi Maddie
A whopping big thank you, how did you do it, i am on findmypast this year and i dont really like the site too much, i had the genealogist site before and finding information was easier.
I know that arthur had at least one brother,who was known as max, but again there are no births for a max, i did spot one for a reginald m ward and i did wonder if this was him.
I will ask my uncle again to see if he can give me some further information, unfortunately my dad has dementia and some days he will remember people , but most of the time he just about knows who we are.
Once again thank you for your wonderful help.
regards
Jackie
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Hi Jackie
You are more than welcome, pleased I could help. ;D
Fingers crossed your uncle can come up with some other clue, in the meantime I'll keep looking for any possible Arthur's or Max. :-\
The only other way would be for you to send for the marriage cert of William & Jessie to get William's father. Maybe, with a bit of luck, we can avoid that. :)
Maddie
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hi,
I just want to put an update of the research done so far, i have found out that my grandfather Arthur Ward had a brother John and two sister`s called Elizabeth and Renee(irene). His father married (wife number 2) Jessie Frost in 1919 and they had two sons Cecil and Raymond. They did live at 7 Rosebery Road, as this was the house that Jessie lived in with her first husband James Frost and their two daughters. I have just read an email from my uncle and he says that one of the aunties thought that William Ward had come from London.
If i get any further information via pm then i will post another update.
Thank you for all your help
jackie
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Dear all,
I recently had another look at my great grandfather`s army record and it was alot clearer too read. It confirmed that my grandfather was actually William A Ward born 1904. I then found a military record for William Augustus Ward who enrolled into the tank corps in 1921 and was invalided out in 1927 with a lump sum of ten pounds and a pension of one pound. His next of kin was William Ward of 7 Roseberry road, Bushey. That was a happy moment for me, as i havent found much out about my dad`s father. I dont know why his name was william arthur on my dad`s marriage certificate. i am still looking for confirmation as to who was William (senior) father. I must sit down and work at one branch at a time instead of flitting all over the place.
Regards,
jackie.
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Hi Jackie
That's great that you have had a breakthrough with your Ward family, surprising what turns up eventually, isn't it. :D
I'm guessing then that William Augustus was the one born in Marylebone June qtr 1904, so he was born in London.
Did you get any more info from your Grt Grandfather's Army record as to who his wife was & have you found him on any census.??
Maddie
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hi maddie
Lovely to hear from you, hoping you are keeping well. I know you have been giving Brenda a hand with her Goodmans.
The army document was the same one you sent me, only i was able to read it clearer on findmypast. William (senior) married Elizabeth Langdon at st james in 1898. They are also on the 1911 census but i havent found them in 1901. He states that he was with the Kings Rifle regiment but i haven found proof of that either. I will have another delve tonight as i must get ready for work now.
Regards Jackie.
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Hi Jackie
Have finally got myself up to speed & found your William's service record, I had a computer melt down last year & lost a lot of info including your Ward's. :D
Found them on the 1911 but I'm also having a job to spot them on the 1901. I'm guessing you didn't send for the marriage cert at St James, am I correct in thinking it was a Roman Catholic church & isn't to be found on Ancestry or FindMyPast.??
Will carry on looking & let you know if anything turns up.
Maddie
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hi maddie,
Yes you are correct that st james was a catholic church. I have just been reading that it was built in 1890 and is near to Baker Street. So when william and elizabeth landon(i spelt her name wrong last time) were married the church was quite new. I also could read the different addresses where the children were born. My grandfather william augustus was born in March 1904 at Paradise Street, Marylebone and he was not christened. By 1905 they had moved to 19 Harrow st and had three children there. Then by 1914 they were living at 9 Venables St. Marylebone. Somewhere between 1914 and 1919 his wife died and he moved from London to Bushey and married the widow Jessie Frost.
I am now going to see if i can find her death date.
Regards Jackie.
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Hi
Marriages Jun 1898 Marylebone 1a 1331
Elizabeth LANDEG
A N Other
A N Other
William WARD
?
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Hi Ray
Thanks for your input, yes that is the correct marriage. The actual info is on his service record & his wife is Elizabeth Landon, as Jackie says, he was in the London Regiment 18th Bttn, service number 10226. There is a daughter Bridget born in 1899 but I'm blowed if I can find the family in 1901, all were born Marylebone according to the next census. Not having much luck finding William in the 1891 either, if you have time another pair of eyes would be appreciated. :D
Maddie
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Hi
As I said earlier I still can't find William with family in the 1901 so I thought I would take a look at the witness to their marriage who was Bridget Dorr. Turns out Bridget (married George Dorr Marylebone 1890) was also a Ward & the daughter of John Ward & Bridget (Danahar), 1881 census RG11/161/74 page 63, the family consists of John aged 28, Bridget aged 29, children, Amelia aged 13, John aged 11, Mary A aged 9, Bridget aged 7, James aged 5 & Susan aged 3, all living & born Marylebone. By the 1891 census they also have a William & a Margaret.
I also found on the 1881 a James Ward with wife Margaret (Robertson) RG11/142/8 page 9 with children, James aged 16, Eliza aged 14, John aged 11, Alexander aged 9 & a WILLIAM aged 6 all born & living in Marylebone.
What do you think, is there a connection here & was Bridget Dorr perhaps a cousin to your William.
Did you find the death for Elizabeth by any chance cos I can't see it. :-\
Hope this is helping. :)
Maddie
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Hi Maddie,
Thank you for your help, that was a good idea looking at the witnesses, it also fits into place with them calling their first daughter Bridget. I have been trying to find a link with John Ward senior and James Ward(probably William Ward 1876,father). At the moment they are both from Marylebone and were General Dealers. I also still cant find William and Elizabeth in the 1901 census or a death for Elizabeth. I have done some more delving and i think i have made a connection but i need to write it all down and make sure i have got it correct. I think i have got Ward exhaustion, boggled eyed and brainless.!!
Regards,
Jackie
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Hi Jackie
I am pleased to see you could understand where I was coming from. ;D Looking likely, isn't it. I must admit I got a bit boggled eyed. ;) Let me know where you find the connection & I'll also check it out.
Goodness only knows where they were in 1901 & to top it we have an address for them from the births & still can't find them. I was wondering if perhaps William was in the Militia in 1891 although on his papers it does state he attested with the KRRC in 1904, bit strange that, wonder why he joined up then.
Maddie