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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: The-Game on Tuesday 10 July 12 05:40 BST (UK)
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This is more so for my grandmother who asked me If "I could please try to trace her mother's side, as we're somehow related to Dr William Redfern 1774-1883, and also Lachlan Macquarie who was dubbed "The Father Of Australia. I know my Great grandmother was Claire (pronounced clara) quelch (born Redfern) died sometime in the 90's. Her mother was also Clara Redfern (born Painter we think). We're a little confused as we know there is Clara Redfern who married a Thomas Redfern sometime We assume back in the 1800's. unclear, but they date back to Dr William Redfern somehow and also Lachlan Macquarie, I'm confused as hell haha. But any help would be most appreciated by my Grandmother. Thank You :D :D
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NSWBDM:
1749/1937 Frank QUELCH to Clara Paynter REDFERN registered COWRA, NSW
Jamjar
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I can see Clara Paynter and Frank Quelch on the electoral roll living at Stewart st Cowra Clara home duties and Frank is a linesman .
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May I suggest that you have a look on Ance..try,
Looks like a daug of Herbert Redfern and Mary Agnes Proud married Frank Quench
Herbert's father Thomas Henry Redfern married Clara Painter in Melbourne 1867.
From the Ances..try tree looks like somebody has done a lot of research
Cass
PS I agree with Cando, and never take anothers research as gospel, & always confirm info from other sources. eg BDM index, however sometimes you can get leads that help in the search
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Do you have access to Ancestry to look at the tree or do you need help from us. If you have access make sure the tree is well referenced ie the sources are cited....and even then you still need to check them yourself and I understand ancestry give 'hints' that aren't always correct but people post the 'hints' to their tree.
From my resource
REDFERN Thomas Henry born Manchester
PAINTER Clara born London
1867 Reg#122
Cando
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Umm could there be two Thomas and Clara Redfern's :o
The NSW BDM has Thomas Riddiough Redfern and a Clara with 5 children from 1876?
Alfred 76, Catherine 78, Thomas 81, Lena 83, Harry 86. There is another to a Thomas K and Clara a Walter in 1890.
Could be just possible transcription error but a very unusual middle name. :P
Neil
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If you have access make sure the tree is well referenced ie the sources are cited....and even then you still need to check them yourself and I understand ancestry give 'hints' that aren't always correct but people post the 'hints' to their tree.
Cando
...and many of them have confused the families of the two couples - Thomas REDFERN and Clara HIGGINS (married 1874 in Sydney), and Thomas REDFERN and Clara PAINTER ( married 1867 in Victoria).
Debra :)
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As Clara married in 1937, there is a chance she was born up to 1918. A look up may prove useful.
Jamjar
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I can see Clara Paynter Redfern parents Mary Agnes Pound born 1883 and Herbert Redfern .
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I can't find that on NSWBDM. ???
That sure makes her old when she married Frank. Could this have been who I thought was Clara II actually being Clara I, marriying for the second time.
Think I've confused myself. :o
Jamjar
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Excellent advice (as always) from Cando. :)
Do you have access to Ancestry to look at the tree or do you need help from us. If you have access make sure the tree is well referenced ie the sources are cited....and even then you still need to check them yourself and I understand ancestry give 'hints' that aren't always correct but people post the 'hints' to their tree.
From my resource
REDFERN Thomas Henry born Manchester
PAINTER Clara born London
1867 Reg#122
Cando
I always have trouble being brief, and so I apologise for this long contribution....
There are two main parts to Ancestry. There's the section that has uploaded images and/or indexes that point to official records and then there's the section where individual members SUBMIT their interpretations of their family tree.
If you don't have direct access, many NSW public libraries do offer terminals with access. Of course only a very small part of NSW official records are actually available online to view, and Ancestry is not the sole provider offering those images.
Here at RChat there are various Resources Boards, and as you are currently working back from yourself to your parents and then to their parents and further back, you can always rely on those Resources Boards to contain live links to help you do your own hunting out of official records.
Here's the link to RChat's Australian Resources Board http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?board=165.0 and once you have got there, there's boards for each of the States and Territories.
Many of us 'regulars' have our own offline resources, and we are simply sharing the info from these with you and with other RChatters, just as we have been helped with our own enquiries about our own family trees.
You have one of the best addictions known. I hope it will last your lifetime, and that it will help you bring great joy to your living family members. Along the way you will find some skeltons perhaps, and it is up to you IF and HOW you choose to introduce that information to your family. Just remember that each generation coped with the then conditions and social norms of those times, and what may have been a taboo subject for a Great Grandparent may be a well discussed topic today, and that today's taboo topics may well have been well discussed back in Grandparent's times.
Have you armed yourself with some blank treecharts, and an old fashioned pencil and eraser yet? These are still very very helpful at least to me when I am trying to figure out any RChatters complicated request for clues about their own forebears.
Fingers crossed you will be considering ordering some NSW BDM certs and if so, you will NOT go overboard with the pennies, but patiently work through from the recent generations firstly. If you are ordering NSW BDM certs, then may I suggest you consider ordering OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPTS to start. These contain all the info on the 'real deal' certs and are cheaper, and can arrive as email attachments (usually pdf if you order that way).
Here's the link to the NSW BDM family history indexes: http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/searchHistoricalRecords.htm
Here's the link to the NSW BDM's official transcription agents : http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/howToTraceYouFamTree.htm
Cheers, JM
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Marriage
821/1902
REDFERN Herbert
POUND Mary A
District Bathurst
Births to Herbert and Mary to 1911
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0oln/
Cando
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Lovely photo, Cando.
Then how do we account for the birth in 1883?
Jamjar
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NSWBDM
Death:
62615/1973 Frank QUELCH father GEORGE and mother MARY registered in COWRA
Jamjar
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Re reply # 11
From the NSW Electoral Roll for 1903, for the Electorate of MACQUARIE, and polling place for Bathurst:
Herbert REDFERN, of Bentinck Street, a groom
Mary Agnes REDFERN of Bentinck Street, domestic duties
Eliza Jane POUND, of Bentinck St, domestic servant
Hannah POUND, of Morrisett St, domestic duties
Johannah POUND, of Bentinck St, domestic duties
Louisa POUND, of Bentinck St, domestic duties
NO OTHERS by those surnames at that polling place.
Cheers, JM (Agree Jamjar, that is a lovely photo on Cando's avatar thingy)
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May I suggest that you have a look on Ance..try,
Looks like a daug of Herbert Redfern and Mary Agnes Proud married Frank Quench
Herbert's father Thomas Henry Redfern married Clara Painter in Melbourne 1867.
From the Ances..try tree looks like somebody has done a lot of research
Cass
That might be right, We're just as confused, my Aunty has tried find info but It's really hard, as my grandmothers mother who is Clare/a quelch (born Redfern) didn't bring her up. so it's hard finding info. But the thomas henry redfern marrying Clara Painter def sounds right. Just unsure where they fit in. And It makes it harder when my family are giving me details which make no sense.
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Thanks Jamjar....my late father remembered Louisa fondly. She use to give him money [and a lecture] to cross Heidelberg Road, Fairfield to Murphy's sweet shop. He lived with his grandmother and gt grandmother Louisa in Melbourne while attending primary school as his parents lived in a newly developing area of NW Vic. His father was keen for him to be well educated. Louisa was bedridden during the last years of her life and she died in 1921 aged 85, when my dad was 11 years old.
I think the chatter means the birth of Mary A POUND was in 1883
12160/1883
POUND Mary Agnes
Father Isaac Mother Johanna
District East Macquarie
Cheers
Cando
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May I suggest that you have a look on Ance..try,
Looks like a daug of Herbert Redfern and Mary Agnes Proud married Frank Quench
Herbert's father Thomas Henry Redfern married Clara Painter in Melbourne 1867.
From the Ances..try tree looks like somebody has done a lot of research
Cass
That might be right, We're just as confused, my Aunty has tried find info but It's really hard, as my grandmothers mother who is Clare/a quelch (born Redfern) didn't bring her up. so it's hard finding info. But the thomas henry redfern marrying Clara Painter def sounds right. Just unsure where they fit in. And It makes it harder when my family are giving me details which make no sense.
Perhaps a chatter who has birth to 1918 could look up to see if Clara REDFERN was born prior to that date.
Cando
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As Clara married in 1937, there is a chance she was born up to 1918. A look up may prove useful.
Yes, I beat you to that one, Cando. ;)
Jamjar
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If you have access make sure the tree is well referenced ie the sources are cited....and even then you still need to check them yourself and I understand ancestry give 'hints' that aren't always correct but people post the 'hints' to their tree.
Cando
...and many of them have confused the families of the two couples - Thomas REDFERN and Clara HIGGINS (married 1874 in Sydney), and Thomas REDFERN and Clara PAINTER ( married 1867 in Victoria).
Debra :)
I think the NSW 1874 marriage cert may be another example of some elusive blanks on the cert NOT being followed up with checking the parish registers for the details of the bride and groom and their parentage. Sadly, those hurdles were recognised by family history buffs long before the internet came along, and the family history buffs were prepared to write snail mail letters to the local clergy to gain that elusive info.
I see NSW BDM website has made mention of these blanks, so perhaps my thread on that topic can be moved off to the COMPLETED board shortly ;D I quote : "The task of reconciling the Early Church Records and amending the marriage registrations was never finalised. The Registry's records from these years are not complete and it can be worthwhile for genealogists to contact the relevant church to find details missing from a marriage certificate or in the case of a birth, a baptism record where there is no corresponding civil registration." http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/historyofRegistrysRec.htm
Cheers, JM (fingers crossed the regulars with 1918 Pioneers Index can rescue us SOOOOOOON)
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Need to read all the posts again Jamjar :-[ ;D
This certificate should list all the children of the marriage. Transcriptions available from
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/howToTraceYouFamTree.htm#TranscriptionAgent
46830/1971
REDFERN Mary Agnes
Father Isaac Mother Joanna
District Wollongong
Cando
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You do much better than me, cando. I miss things all the time, especially as the threads get longer.
Wollongong's a long way from Cowra.
Jamjar
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NSWBDM
Death: 24196/1945 Herbert REDFERN father Thomas Henry and mother Clara registered COWRA
Jamjar
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Yes I meant Mary Agnes Pound born 1883 I looked at a tree on Mundia and that is were I got the info from it has Clara Paynter Redfern born Cowra 1902 married 1937 like Jam Jar said and it also has Clara Painter on the same tree .
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Hi there,
Re the possible connection back to (Doctor) William REDFERN and the various REDFERN families in the Bathurst District
http://adb.anu.edu.au/biography/redfern-william-2580
The NSW State Records Office has many archive files at their Kingswood facility. Many of the files have been indexed and most of the indexes are online.
One index is the Depasturing Licences. I mention this because one entry on that index reads
REDFERN, W (Doctor), Wangoola, Bathurst, Western, 14/01/1837, and in the remarks column is “(deceased); Other names mentioned : WATT, R B
Here is the index link :
http://srwww.records.nsw.gov.au/indexes/searchform.aspx?id=67
Here is the link to the Bathurst family history group, you can see they have listed REDFERN as pioneers of the district.
http://bathurstfhg.asn.au/PIONREG.shtml
Here is the link to the Cowra family history group
http://cfhg.webs.com/
Cheers JM
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Re William Redfern WATT
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/13973113 SMH 20 Oct 1894 mentions he was nephew of William REDFERN, and was among first settlers at Cowra.
“WATT, Oct 17, 1894, at the residence of his son-in-law, Mr Mylechrane, Richmond, Newland Street, Waverley, William Redfern WATT, aged 81 years”
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/13972938 SMH 18 Oct 1894
There were Mylechrane families on the Lachlan for decades and decades, as per my own oral history.
Cheers, JM
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NSWBDM
V1820218 8/1820 W L REDFERN parents William and Sarah
About Dr William, mentions Sarah and son William Lachlan Macquarie.
http://acms.sl.nsw.gov.au/item/itemDetailPaged.aspx?itemID=422554
Jamjar
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William Redfern WATT’s eldest son was Victor WATT.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/16621565 SMH 29 Jan 1930
Some more family history information re William Redfern WATT :
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/48048169 Northern Standard 5 July 1932
Cheers, JM
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Deceased Estate INDEX for William Redfern WATT, shows date of death as 17 Oct 1894 and Duty paid 29 Jan 1896. http://srwww.records.nsw.gov.au/indexes/searchform.aspx?id=15
Deceased Estate files CAN often contain lots of details about family members, including at times, BDM certificates, witness statements and the like, and the NSW SRO offers a copy service (and an online feature to use your plastic card to fund that) for these files.
Adding, William Lachlan Macquarie REDFERN (30 June 1904) has a Deceased Estate file at NSW SRO as well
Cheers, JM
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12160/1883
POUND Mary Agnes
Father Isaac Mother Johanna
District East Macquarie
NSW ER 1878 WEST MACQUARIE
Isaac POUND, freehold, Campbell’s River
Isaac POUND, junior, leasehold, Campbell’s River
William REDFERN, residence, Bellevue
NSW ER 1870 WEST MACQUARIE
Isaac POUND, freehold, Campbell’s River
William REDFERN, residence, Mount Tamar
Cheers, JM
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NSW ER 1870 CARCOAR in the Carcoar Police District
William POUND, residence at Colo
Walater POUND residence at Dirtyhole Creek
Edwin POUND, leasehold at Dirty Creek
NSW ER 1878 CARCOAR
Francis PAINTER, of Coombing Mine, residence near Carcoar
Charles POUND, residence Carcoar
William POUND, residence Colo
Grevilles 1875 directory for CARCOAR
Edwin POUND, carrier, Dirty Ck
Walter POUND, farmer, Dirty Ck
Cheers, JM
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An interesing article on an Isaac Pound
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/62745068?searchTerm=%22isaac%20pound%22&searchLimits=sortby=dateAsc
Jamjar
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Could be useful. Information on the 'Pound's". Needs to be confirmed.
http://members.tripod.com/phil_n_s/Pp/d1.htm#i5168
http://members.tripod.com/phil_n_s/Pp/d1.htm#i5217
Jamjar
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NSWBDM
Marriage:
3128/1881 Isaac POUND to Johanna WILCOX registered at EAST MACQUARIE
Birth:
5095/1862 Johannah WILCOX to William and Eliza registered at Bathurst
Jamjar
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I am a direct descendant of Redfern / Quelch family Cowra NSW. I would like the person researching my great grandmother Clara Redfern / Quelch & my great grandfather Frank Quench to contact me, I believe I know who she is and have a lot of information.
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Hey all, i am The-Game, I lost my password and email address to my account a couple.years ago, but finally back.
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I am a direct descendant of Redfern / Quelch family Cowra NSW. I would like the person researching my great grandmother Clara Redfern / Quelch & my great grandfather Frank Quench to contact me, I believe I know who she is and have a lot of information.
I would like to get in contact, but I dont know if I can private msg you with details.
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New members must make at least three postings before being allowed to use the PM (Personal Message) facility. Attachments are not allowed on PMs
http://www.rootschat.com/help/pms.php
Very easy to send a PM (Personal Message). Just click on the circle (left hand side under the persons avatar/name, symbol looks like a letter/page). This will allow you to send a PM and exchange email or other information privately. They will automatically be notified that they have received a PM.
To read a PM just click on “My Messages” (located on the brown strip, just below the Rootschat header/banner)
When a rootschatter is online the letter/page symbol lights up green but they do not need to be online for you to send them a PM.
Cheers :)
CoL