RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Roscommon => Topic started by: Seamiuse on Saturday 21 July 12 02:24 BST (UK)
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Greetings All!
Searching for the whereabouts of;
James Morrisroe
Born 15 Jul 1877 in Tondragee
Baptized 27 July 1877 - Fr. D. o'Hara
witnesses - Pat Morrisroe and Bridget Morrisroe
Birth is proved by Bapt. records at Ballaghadereen/St Nathy's and civil birth record. No further information can be found about James coming to America or Pat and Mary. Wondering if James may have died as a baby?... they all go to the workhouse? Anyone know about records of the workhouse in that area?
Parents are:
Pat Morrisroe and
Mary Morrisroe (yes, nee was Morrisroe)(her father was James Morrisroe)
Pat and Mary married 19 Jan 1873
witnesses; Joseph Grady and Bridget Morrisroe
Note: James (the one I am searching for had only one sibling and her name was;
Anne /Anna born 26 Sept 1874 (proved)
(more info on Anne can be found at a different posting, but a lot is known)
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Hello Seamiuse,
For the purpose of the Griffiths Valuation the Townland name Curraghsallagh was used but locally it included an area called Briarfield which contained one school prior to the establishment of the Currasallagh National School in 1891. The school in Briarfield was a a barn in a field owned by Pat Morrisroe and the teacher was a Mary Morrisroe. Currasallagh held a school where a Pat Mc Dermot later lived. These schools were mere latter day Hedge Schools run by travelling scholars.
Taken from Tales from Two Schools - Souvenir Booklet.
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Curraghsallagh is a townland in Lisacul which forms the parish of Loughglynn and you should find a little more with the LDS film for Loughglynn/Lisacul.
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Thank You for the information Padraig. I think however that these are different Morrisroe's. The Morrisroe's I search for were farmers. In an area of Tondragee/Tonregee I know they lived there were some 6 farms in a row.
I REALLY wish that the parish in the area was more forthcoming with their death records. >:( The cemetery hasn't been indexed either. I have a feeling that I would find Pat. Mary and possibly a young James.
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Hi 'Seam...'
I take it that this is the Anne that you are refering to
anne morrisroe (https://familysearch.org/search/records/index#count=20&query=%2Bgivenname%3Aanne~%20%2Bsurname%3Amorrisroe~%20%2Bfather_givenname%3Apatrick~%20%2Bmother_givenname%3Amary~%20%2Bmother_surname%3Amorrisroe~)
Did Anne emmigrate to America ?
If so when ?
Have you seen this research page ?
morrisroe research (http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~morrisroe/)
Tara
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Hello Seamiuse,
I noted from your other thread that you were looking at Pat and Mary combos and had focused on Curraghsallagh plot 27. My people were next door for a while at 29, and offered the information to supplement what you already have.
My understanding is that Roe or the earleir form Ruadh was used to denote a physical characteristic, mainly red hair, to distinguish them from family(ies) with the same name living in the same area. I'll stand corrected if I'm wrong. Conclusion is the root family is probably named Morris and may derive from the Morris clan of Galway .
The site http://www.roscommoncoco.ie/burialgrounds/search.aspx , from list all graveyards gives a contact James Coogan for the two Kilcolman burial grounds which in all probabilities is where they are. A further site http://www.interment.net/ireland/roscommon.htm lists an Ann Ryan who has completed projects for other areas of Roscommon and may be able to help with your enquiry.
I know there are a number of amateur historians connected with a publication called Voices who may give you an idea on what other information may be available on Ballagh from the past and an enquiry to this end directed at the principal librarian at Ballagh Library may be an idea. I tried to tie these people down on my last day when I was over last but their work prevented this.Snail mail would be the option.
Once you have a clearer picture, hopefully, certification should be a bit nearer.
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Greetings Tara,
Yes, that is our Anna you reference. She came to America about 1889-1890 by herself to meet with relatives it is said. I've not been able to find her prior to her being married to John.
Yes, the webpage you reference is mine.
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Greetings Padraig,
I would have to see the old post for my reference to Curraghsallagh. memory is fading I guess. Could you post a link to it, I can't seem to locate the post and see what you added.
Yes, you are correct; MacMaurisRuadh = Son of Mauris the Red
Years ago I spoke to the caretaker but no information was gathered, nor on a personal visit to 4 of the cemetery's. Then again, in the old ones the stones were barely visible and so many are overgrown that even though days were spent, Pat and Mary (and or James) were found.
I spent a lot of time in correspondence and tele with the librarian you reference since the late 80's and not much has been located. Seems the family just drops off after about 1877.
I have viewed Anne Ryans's work and the Mary and Pat she ref's are not the ones I search for, the dates are too far off. I have also seen other lists on the net of the kilcolman cemetery's but they don't show there either.
The two Bishop's since 1980's have been of IMMENSE help, as has their archivists in assisting me in "Project Morrisroe".
THANK YOU, and all for your assistance.
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Hi again,
Your posts I am referring to are 4/5 October 2010. Just go to your profile and review all your posts.
Regional heritage and genealogy have taken off over the last 15 years since it has become such a money spinner and what was not accessible 20 years ago has emerged through the fog. The Voices publication is only in the last few years and those working on it may have snippets of info crucial to your search.
I am aware of a mapping project of a cemetery in Northwest Roscommon but as yet do not know which one and when it will be completed. I will post what I am able to find out in the next week or so as I am dealing with people accustomed to Irish Time if you know what I mean.
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Hi Seamiuse,
It appears that you are doing this a long time, and most likely know the following, but I shall type it up just in case.
In the time period that you are referencing the church has very few burial records for. I have read numerous accounts on this which give varying reasons, the main seem to be that records wouldn't be written up 'til fees were paid, and sure with major poverty around fees often weren't paid. How true this is I don't know, but may explain the shocking lack of burial records.
The article below may be of some help, which states that very few Roman Catholics churchs have maintained burial records :(
irish church records explanation (http://www.from-ireland.net/roman-catholic-parishes/Irish-Church-Records-Explanation)
In one branch of my family in rural Galway, I was amazed to look through their church records and find so few burial records for my family in their books. I know for a fact that they lived, died and would have been buried in the area but there were only a handful of them to be found. What was surprising (or not - depending on how you look at it) was that those that WERE found were mainly on men, very few women, and even less children. What women were recorded, most were written as Mrs....no christian name given.
Again with graves, it would seem that, unless you had a few bob, you would have been buried but very few had a headstone.
I have family that were buried as late as the 1950's and were not given headstones.
You have mentioned that Anne emmigrated about 1889, which would have made her about 15, fairly young. It MIGHT suggest that she was orphaned about this age.
I presume that you have looked for death certs for Patrick and Mary for this time period. Although they could have passed away when she was younger and she may have been reared by relatives.
As I said, you most likely know all this, but it might be of some help.
Tara
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Hello Seamuise,
Firstly Ballaghderreen is not one of the two currently being indexed in Northwest Roscommon and the Parish Priest has made no approach to have it done as yet.
On the subject of your post on the 21 July 2012 at 21.03 BST, I am having trouble in joining up the dots.
You claim to have been in touch with Ballaghderreen Library in the late 80's and I am surprised you were unable to obtain details of the Derrinacartha/Tongragee school centenary in 1985 and the souvenir book which was published in 1985. A comprehensive history of the schools with a host of pictures of past pupils and teachers written by Jackie Henry, complemented by anecdotes from locals and past pupils is invaluable. My memories more recent is that Ballaghderreen was supplied with a big blue mobile library bus which served the town and local villages and operated out of Castlerea and Boyle. A permanent Library didn't open until 2002. If you were I do not understand your post http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,499584.msg3563631.html#msg3563631 .
As for the caretaker at Kilcolman cemetery you appear to have started on a theme and continued it.
Ann Ryan a volunteer who is in the area and would be aware of any unpublished cemetery indexing even offers her email address for you to contact her.Not sure how you have tied my comment into the fact that her existing published work may have details of your Morrisroe family.
You have offered up that you made a personal visit to four of the graveyards.
Your posting on Genforum on the 21 July 2012
http://boards.rootsweb.com/authorposts.aspx?uname=oBruadairAboo&uid=009225cb-0001-0000-0000-000000000000&uem=&rurl=http%3a%2f%2fboards.rootsweb.com%2fsurnames.towey%2f178.1%2fmb.ashx
clearly word for word the same as your posting on this forum, which together with your other postings would suggest your personal visit was within the last 18 months. You are still trying to identify cemeteries in the area and sourcing maps
As you will know the Irish Civil Registration Indexes after 1874 are more accurate than pre 1874 records and why I feel your James did not die in Ireland. Why you have chosen not to obtain James parents marriage certificate baffles me, after all it is only the cost of an inflight sandwich. To have three individuals birth or ages and full details of James grandparents would be a minimum requirement before I'd even consider the expenditure of traveling to Ireland.
I myself have just this week rented a house south of Ballagh from a couple living in Ballaghderren for a wedding in Sept.. In passing I mentioned the Morrisroe family of Tongaree and within five minutes learned that the last remaining member was currently in a residential care home and though childless, was also told where his extended family were living which is just off the R293 in Sligo. God bless them,who needs the internet to get information. A meeting with the old boy and his family with all their stories would have given your webpage the authenticity it sadly lacks.
Finally I would have liked to see some authentic pictures from your visit rather than those using picture capture. You will no doubt be aware the Griffiths Valuation townland map you have used is subject to copyright and though there is a ''fair dealing'' agreement in relation to the use of these images you may wish to speak or write to Joan Ward or Annette Kelly at An Chomhairle Leabharlanna, 53/54 Upper Mount Street, Dublin 2 Tel 00 353 6761167 to avoid any misunderstanding.
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Having got all that nonsense out of the way all you have is a Baptismal cert for anna, the workhouse reference and a reference to a Bishop Morrisroe.
You appear to be applying Annas life events(workhouse) to the rest of the family which may be a mistake, in addition your reliance on the FHS microfilms is not aiding your research. A copy of Annas/James parents marriage cert is a must to establish a better understanding of the family grouping, whether they emigrated and where they died.
The Francis Xavier school in Ballaghderreen was an Industrial school/Workhouse for boys/girls set up about 1874. It is probably this institute that your records refer to . It is unlikely that Bishop Morrisroe or even the local priest would have been such a big influence on the future of Anna had the family had been confined to the regular workhouse.
Depending on the life events of the parents and when Anna entered the Industrial School, it is most likely Bishop Morrisroe may have taken an interest in her future being loosely speaking of the same clan.
As for James,being male and young his life events in the Industrial School structure may have been totally different. Adoption may be a reason for the lack of any death or emigration records in the name of James Morrisroe.
It was not uncommon for the church/state to intervene where child neglect/cruelty existed. A Michael Morrisroe born in Ballaghderreen was convicted in 1909 for child neglect and illtreament and jailed at Castlebar. As the school in Ballagh was only 3/4 years into its existence the need to crack down on and justify their existence, the consequences may have been adoption for James and a childhood of work for Anna.
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I just signed into this site out of curiosity so I'm probably way late to the party. I'm a MorrisRoe from Tondragee, now resident in Chicago. Yes, the last Tondragee resident MorrisRoe has now passed away (referred to in a post). He was like an uncle to me but no relation. My father emigrated to Tondragee (after 20 years in the Royal Navy) from Bockagh next door. There are still resident MorrisRoes there (my cousins).
My tips:
- There's a lot of census data from way back in Ireland available online now. I've used it to track my Mom's history.
- Ballaghaderreen used to be in Mayo back in the day. If you do any archive searches that could be relevant.
- Kilcolman cemetery has lots of MorrisRoes (including my Dad. The older headstones are on the south side.
- I had the pleasure of attending Tondragee school for a few years (100 yards away and technically in Bohalis) before it closed. I've seen roll books there dating back a 100 years or more. I don't know where they've ended up but some Department of Education person might.
- The only native MorrisRoes I knew in Derrinacartha owned a pub north of the church. It's closed now.
Hope this helps. I can probably provide more data if anyone is still interested.
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o my goodness. I've not been here in way to long. My apologies. Life intervened.
I'd been doing a search for Tondragee and this post popped up.
Several bits of information have been acquired and documents as well. Stick with me, I'll gather them up and post soon. Hope all is well with everyone.
S