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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Angus (Forfarshire) => Topic started by: Cobus on Friday 27 July 12 14:59 BST (UK)
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Genealogy can be so frustrating! I cannot find birth records for George Crow, his spouse Catherine Christie, and their family from Montrose.
Documents I have managed to get from SP are George and his spouse Cathrine (sic) mentioned in the 1841 census as living in Apple Wynd, Montrose. He is aged 30 (so born approximately 1811), a labourer, and Cathrine Christie (25, born approximately 1816). Their offspring are Hope (14) (they must have had her young!), Jessie (12), George (9), David (8), William (5), and Cathrine (2). All children are said to have been born in Forfarshire, but the parents were not. The only other times George and Catherine are mentioned are on the records of their David’s marriage to Elizabeth Ogilvie on 5/2/1859 in Ferryden, in the parish of Craig, by Montrose, George being documented as a sailor, and when their son William married Mary Ann McDonald on 4/8/1859, also at Ferryden. This time George is classified as a seaman MS (merchant service). Then George and Catherine disappear!
From IGI, David (that’s the line I am interested in) and Elizabeth’s children are David Ogilvie Crow (born 19/7/1859), Thomas Orlando Crow (19/10/1860), James Stephen Crow (2/11/1862), Robert Kelman Crow (10/5/1866), George Crow (3/5/1868), and Jessie Stephen Crow (15/5/1869). All were born in Ferryden except Jessie, born at 4 India Street, Montrose. The family (now Crowe with an ‘e’) are listed in the 1861 census at living at 19 Ferryden, then in 1871 (back to the Crow spelling) at 103 Castle Street, Montrose, but in 1881 David has either died or disappeared, for the family (Crowe) are now at 21 South Grimsby, Arbroath.
I have tried searching many permutations of names, etc., but with no joy. Has anyone got any suggestions?
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This is the 1851 entry for Dundee - I only have access to the transcription so you would need to view the image on SP. Children b Montrose except Georgena
George Crow 47 ship stoker b Lanbeck Hanston ??
Catherine 46 b Aberthnett (?Abernethy)
Hope 24
Jess 22
William 15
Catherine 11
Georgena Mar 4 Months (? Mary or Margaret) g/dtr b Dundee
Dundee ED 75 Page 7 Line 20
Depending on what George's birthplace translates to from the image - the IGI has 3 English births between 1803-1805
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Many thanks, CaroleW. This seems to be my Crowe family. There seem to be discrepancies in their ages on the 1841 census, as their ages on the 1851 version seem more in keeping with Hope's age.
The 1851 census information on Catherine's birthplace looks like a mis-spelling of Arbuthnott, near Inverbervie, Kincardineshire, but I can't find a birth record. There is a Catherine Christie born 8/6/1807 in Abernethy, Perthshire, but I'll keep searching.
George's birthplace of Hanston Lanbeck (?) defeats me at the moment - but I'll persevere.
Georgena's surname could be Mar, and she's listed as a granddaughter.
Thanks again.
Cobus
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The ages shown on the 1841 census are rounded down to the nearest 5yrs from age 16yrs onwards.
Some enumerators ignored the instruction and showed normal ages but you will note an awful lot of people had a 0 or 5 on the end of their age
In families with children born within a year or 2 of each other - it can look as though they had several sets of twins or triplets
Re: George's birthplace - you could scan and post that part of the image on the Deciphering and Recognition board in case anybody can interprete it
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Hi, I think I might have information on your David Crow who married Elizabeth Ogilvie but it is confusing me now too so hopefully I can make sense of it. David Crow was either Spanish or Portuguese according to a letter that I have. He was originally called Orlando Cruz but changed his name to David Crow by deed poll when he moved here. He was a cork cutter and cork merchant, importing cork from Oporto and working particularly with the linoleum manufacturers in Kirkcaldy. I think he eventually had a cork business with his brother, called the Crow(e) Brothers. He married Elizabeth Ogilvie, lived in Ferryden then had 11 children before he left to go abroad again but died on the way. The part that has confused me for a long time is his marriage cert that lists his parents as George Crow and Catherine Christie as I know that they seem to exist in Montrose, but his parents should be from overseas? Unless he has anglicised their names on the cert. I wonder if that explains the Lanbeck Hanston reference if it is a place abroad? I can send you a copy of the letter I have if you would like? Hope that helps. Vivien
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Hi Vivien
Welcome to RootsChat :)
David's mother, Catherine Christie lived up to 1880. She died in Dundee, showing as widow to George. Daughter Hope reported the death.
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but in 1881 David has either died or disappeared, for the family (Crowe) are now at 21 South Grimsby, Arbroath.
In 1881 there is a David Crow , age 44(unmarried) , born Montrose , cork cutter , border living 105 King St. Glasgow(Elizabeth is noted as married in 1881).
Not sure about the Spanish or Portuguese connection :-\
ev
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David and Elizabeth ?
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/213373212/david-crowe
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Hi Ev
The death mentioned in that link, that David Crow was only 27 yrs old according to SP. Maybe a grandson?
Monica
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It would be interesting to see the actual gravestone(if it exists) , the information provided seems to come from Deceased Online and family research.
Has someone assumed David is Elizabeth's husband ?
ev
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Suspect that this is a different Findagrave entry for the David Crow identified by Monica in the SP death index. Still begs the question as to the source of the Arbroath Findagrave entry for David Crow born 1836.https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/195037026/david-crowe.
William
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Still begs the question as to the source of the Arbroath Findagrave entry for David Crow born 1836.
It looks to me as if two different people have transcribed information from the burial and/or death records, and one has mistranscribed it.
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/195037026/david-crowe gives death date as 18 May 1903 and age 28. There is a death certificate of David Crow, aged 27, in Montrose in 1903.
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/213373212/david-crowe gives death date as 18 June 1903 (same day and year, different month) and an estimate of age. There is no matching death certificate in Scotland.
The basic search on Deceased Online says David Crow, died 18 June 1903, buried 20 June 1903.
The book of Angus MIs mentions several Crow(e)s in Montrose
Jane Crow, second wife of William Mills, jeweller and dentist; she died 2 November 1829 aged 44.
David Crowe died 4 January 1876 aged 25 on a stone belonging to John Maconachie, builder, and there is a death of David Maconachie, 25, in Montrose in 1876.
Isobel Crow, died 2 October 1850 aged 75, mother of Isabel Lapirie and mother-in-law of George Stevenson.
James Crow, died 11 April 1850 aged 50, and children John, Susan and Alexa.
William Crow, died 26 May 1847 aged 87, and son William.
John Crow died 16 June 1896 and his wife Ann Crow and daughter Margaret
James Crow died 6 August 1850 aged 57, sons Robert, John and David (said to be 'drowned at the Boer War 5 March 1881 aged 23', which I don't believe because 1880 was about two decades before the Boer War), and various other descendants.
Jean Craw, wife of David Low; she died 6 August 1837 aged 77.
Bear in mind that the book only lists gravestones on which there is at least one death before 1855.
David Crow in 1903 is the first record of a death of a David Crow(e) in Montrose after 1855. There are also
David Crowe, 81, in 1907
David Crow, 68, in 1920
David Nicoll Crowe, 14, in 1925
David Crowe, 89, in 1948
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(said to be 'drowned at the Boer War 5 March 1881 aged 23',
Could be the 1st Boer War :-\
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Boer_War
ev
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(said to be 'drowned at the Boer War 5 March 1881 aged 23',
Could be the 1st Boer War :-\
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Boer_War
Thank you - I have to confess that I had no idea that there were two Boer Wars. :-[
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David Crowe, 89, in 1948
This one is my 1st cousin 4x removed. He was born 1858 in St Cyrus. DC states he was a Stone Mason. His parents were George Crow and Theodosia Johnston who lived in St Cyrus. David's father George was a salmon fisher.
David was married to a Mary Ann Falconer
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Hi, I have found a marriage certificate for George and Catherine his name isn't Crow its Kraul. This is a German name and there is a place in germany , Lubeck Hanseatic it was the largest Baltic Harbour of Germany for merchants a major sea port. on 1851 census it says he was born ( Hanston Lanbeck ) I would say this was a spelling error. Catherine does show up again on the 1871 census widow 66 , Boarder at Irving Square, Dundee St Clement, Forfarshire. Also Georgina Mar on 1851 census was Hope's illegitimate daughter her father was Charles Marr who died 1857. Hope has another daughter still born after a fall buried in Howff Graveyard Dundee but never marries .Hope dies 1894 pauper at Parochial Hospital Dundee. When George dies his age his 59 in 1865 that puts his birth 1806 Catherine is 75 when she dies 1880 her birth is 1805, her parents are called Alexander Christie and Ann/ Annie Welsh.