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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Aberdeenshire => Scotland => Aberdeenshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: hazelaberdeen on Thursday 02 August 12 18:45 BST (UK)
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James Hutchison was originally a miner from Newcastle - who moved to Peterhead when he met and married Mary Stewart from Fraserburgh around 1890. He died around 1900. Can anyone throw any light on that? Also, was he related to a Pearl Hutchison, a name I heard a lot in the 40's and 50's when I was very young.
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Hi Hazel
Can't see a marriage in Scotland with those names up to 1910 on www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk :-\
Do you have any children from the marriage that might help to find them on the 1901 census?
Monica
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I was looking for Mary Hutchison, but I actually found her under Mary Stewart and alone with her 6 children on the 1901 census and living at 2 Seagate Place Peterhead with a female lodger, possibly a relation by the name of Elizabeth Stewart Melville. Mary's only daughter was called Elizabeth, and the other children were James, John Robert and David who was just an infant. It appeared that James Hutchison must have been deceased owing to Mary now being a widow on the census form. He was alive previously as his youngest child of Mary's was born in Lonmay in August 1900-
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Can we take it that David Stewart was the child born in Lonmay in 1900 ?
Do you have the birth record from Scotland's People which shows that James Hutchison was recorded as the father ?
Regards
Malky
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Hi Malky and Hazel
Ive just download the BC for David Stewart - b. 15 Aug 1900 West Cairn Lot, Lonmay, to Mary Ann Stewart, Pedlar (no father given). So that doesnt help a lot.
Bill
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That was because James died before David was born, and that is why he was not at the birth. David the youngest was born in a tent in Cairnlob Longmay. They were both basketmakers, and Mary was also a pedlar. It has been very hard to track down where the name Hutchison came from, and I have some evidence that James was definately a coal miner from necastle, previously. I can't find where died he to get the information that is needed. David was married very young to a Mary Grieg Foremen in Peterhead when she was 17 and he was 19, and it did not work out. However, he got married in the name of David Stewart. His next marriage was when he was 41 and that was in the name of Hutchison. You tell me!
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Just some notes from what's been mentioned...
The 1901 census shows the following Stewart group as boarders:
Mary Stewart 32 basket maker b. Fraserburgh, Aberdeenshire
James Stewart 13 b. Arbroath, Forfarshire
John Stewart 10 b. Broughty Ferry, fifeshire
Elizabeth Stewart 9 b. Peterhead, Aberdeenshire
Robert Stewart 7 b. Rathen, Aberdeenshire
David Stewart 1 Month b. Lonmay, Aberdeenshire
Elizabeth Stewart 70 hawker b. Fyvie, Aberdeenshire
Address: 3 Seagate Place, Peterhead
Given the age of the eldest above, James, I wondered whether this 1891 census entry could be connected. Everything fits, except what you have a potential bio for James Hutcheson:
James Hutcheson 40 basket maker b. Edinburgh
Mary Ann Hutcheson 23 hawker b. Fraserburgh, Aberdeenshire
James Hutcheson 2 b. Arbroath, Forfarshire
Address: Balnabreich (Barn), St Vigeans Angus
Have you tried to search for the other children's birth certs to see what they say? Have you found mother Mary Stewart's death cert to check the details on that?
Did David actually show his father as James Hutcheson on any of his registrations?
Monica
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Also, was he related to a Pearl Hutchison, a name I heard a lot in the 40's and 50's when I was very young.
Mentioning this on the off chance...
There is a death showing on SP for a Pearl Hutchison who died in Aberdeenshire in 1988, aged 64. Also a birth in Aberdeenshire for a Pearl, but too late for this death. Hard for you to check though as they are all too recent to view online.
However, Pearl could well likely have been a pet name. Margaret is a possibility such as showing here www.whatsinaname.net/female-names/Pearl.html Likely others too :-\
Monica
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Thank You Monica L and it certainly fits, however two persons-when they were alive said that James originated from Newcastle and that he was a miner. One of the persons was David himself when he was recorded saying that his mother's own name was Stewart- implying that she may have had a another name, and he said that his father was from Newcastle, and that he was a miner, but he did not mention his name. The other person who said that James was from Newcastle was David's wife, when she was alive. None of the rest of the siblings are alive. It would be great to find James's death certifiacate, as that would establish where his parents came from. I only have Mary's birth certificate and her parents were Mary McFee and James Stewart- married in 1846- Inverness. that does not help me with the Hutchison/Stewart side. I wonder why all the duckin and divin with the name from Stewart to Hutchison and sometimes back again. My uncle Robert actually spelled his name Hutcheson-then later changed that to Hutchison. It is a bit of a mystery and I Think that maybe the grandfather was a miner from Newcastle. David joined the army when he was a young boy and he served abroad too during the first world war, as he was actually educated in the army too.
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I am guessing that James and Mary didn't marry (or at least not in a statutory service that would be registered). I think this explains why Mary and the children swapped around with the two surnames of Stewart and Hutchison. Often happens with illegitimate births that children is future years went by either surname, swapping and changing along the way. Makes it hard sometimes to trace people for this reason.
The problem with family stories, as you are finding now, is that when you start to trace back, sometimes facts don't always match - you can only go with what you find along the way really....
I have just found an online family tree on A/try. Some details from there include the following:
Sister Elizabeth's Roman Catholic baptism and birth:
01/09/1893
Name: HUTCHISON ELIZABETH
Parents: JAMES HUTCHISON/MARY ANN STEWART
Sex: F
Baptism: STRICHEN 1893: Births, District of Peterhead, County of Aberdeen, Page 87, Entry No 261
Name: Lizzie Hutchison (Illegitimate)
Birth: 4 June 1893, 16:00hrs
Place: Geddle Braes, Peterhead
Father: James Hutchison (Basket maker)
Mother: Mary Ann Stewart (Pedlar)
Domicile: Parish of Fraserburgh
Signed: Mary Ann Stewart - Mother ("X" her Mark)
Signed: James Hutchison - Father (Present)
Witness: J McDonald - Asst Registrar
Registered: Alex Robertson - Registrar, 11 June 1893, Peterhead
There are some further details for Elizabeth, all too recent to mention here on the main board. The main thing though is that in all the details that do mention her father as James Hutchison, he shows a a basket maker rather than a coal miner. Really, as we had in 1891.
Monica
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Thanks Monica-how do I get into that A/Try without going into a loop on the internet pages, reflecting every word on here?
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To access that side of Ancestry, (member trees) you need a subscription :-\
I found this entry from 1881 which is worth keeping on reserve until you find more regarding James:
Catherine Sullivan 55, Heather Croom Maker, b. B.Ferry, Forfarshire
James Hutchison 34, lodger, basket maker, b. Aberdeen, Aberdeenshire
Catherine Hutchison 33, lodger, hawker, b. Aberdeen, Aberdeenshire
Catherine Hutchison 5 daughter b. Dundee
Address: Dundas St, Bell'S Land, Monifieth Angus
Possible for young Catherine in 1891:
Cathrine Hutchan, 16, General Serv: Dom, b. Dundee working at W Brakens Rd, Brakens Farm in Strathmartine, Angus.
I know that the birth place for this James from 1881 is different, but sometimes people gave confusing and contradicting info. Worth keeping in mind until you find out more. I thought maybe Catherine Snr has died, young Catherine out working by 1891 and James by then living together and having children with Mary ann Stewart.
Just guesses for now ;)
Monica
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I have to agree with you and that he was a lot older than Mary, and that he had a past life. Where did this Newcastle come from then? It's such a mystery, but would make a great book.
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Regarding the name Pearl, my gt.aunts were called Pearl, Ruby & Coral. Those were their christian names & not pet names!
flst :)
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Great names of precious stones- an analogy would be Hazel, Heather, Lilac of the plant names. I'm pretty sure that Pearl was the correct name. I actually thought that she was James daughter from a previous. She was always talked about with love and respect and highly regarded, and there was worry in peoples voices too when they talked of her. I have a photo of her and she is very beautiful and she is holding baby twins wrapped in blue (I think) one one each arm, and I don't know if they were hers or not, as she looked about 50 in the photo.
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Also looking for more info. on this James Hutchison (my Gt. Gt. Granda). I am quite confident that there was no 'official' marriage between James and Mary Stewart - as was common in the community. Mary had six children that I know of and they were registered with these names:
James Hutchison - born 1889
John Hutchison - born 1891
Lizzie Hutchison - born 1893
Robert Stewart - born 1896
David Stewart - born 1900
Charles Stewart - born 1903
James signed the birth register for the first three, but there is no mention of him in the registers of the last three. Is it possible that they may have a different, unknown, father? I have most of the records for Mary including the census's of 1871, 1881, 1891 & 1901, together with the registers of her birth and death. The register of her death notes her as being single (as opposed to widowed (or divorced?)).
I have never heard that James may have been a miner and he is noted as a licenced hawker on the register of the birth of his son James and basket maker on all other records (births of John and Lizzie and the marriages of Lizzie and Robert).
I've tried and tried to find the death register of James but no luck?! Also can't find any of the family in the 1911 census, which should be the easyiest to find - anyone else have any susccess?
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Curiosity got the better of me & I downloaded the birth certificate for Catherine Hutchison (born 1874 )in Dundee.She was illegitimate. Her mother was Elizabeth Hutchison, pauper,formerly a spinner in factory. Perhaps there's poor relief records available for her showing more details about the Hutchisons. Could it be that Catherine (senior) & James were siblings?
flst
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Hi,
I think that seeing as Catherine and James were born nearly within the same year, it is unlikely that they were siblings, maybe cousins though. I have a death certificate from the OPR's for James Hutchison but it may be false. On the search list, it gave his age as 51, he maybe look 61 owing to his life style, and when I downloaded the extract, it put him as 61, and seeing as he died of Cirrosis of the liver and Uncertain Senile decay changes, in St Nicholas Poorhouse in Aberdeen in the 1899 Census. I thought that it kind of fitted what I was expecting to find, however, it gave a very narrow conception, allowance for him to be David's father, but it was possible. This particular James died on October 3rd 1899, and David was born in August 1900. I have it on good authority and I have heard it on a recording in Edinburgh that David said that his father was a coalminer from Newcastle and that he was not from the Travelling Society. Maybe the three youngest boys did have a different father.
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PS I did not know of a child of Mary's to be named Charles, where did he turn up as on the census in 1901 there was 5 children and an aunt living with them in Phead at Seagate, no mention of a child by the name of Charles.
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I have downloaded Charles Stewart's birth 1903 extract and I am not sure if it is the same Mary Ann because of the different types of crosses in the signature. Her oldest son James and the youngest David birth certificates had her signature that looked like a crucifix cross, and the Mary ann of Charles looks like a times cross such as 2x6= Why do you Robhutch think that Charles Stewart belonged to Mary-ann Stewart. I'm all ears.
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You've never mentioned whether or not you've viewed any marriage certificates of Mary's 6 children.It would be interesting to see what was entered in the father's column! Have you seen David's first marriage certificate? Although the father's name was not on the birth certificate often it appears on later certificates.
flst
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David was married firstly to a Mary Grieg foremen from Phead and he was married under the name of Stewart in 1919 and he got married again in 1942 under the name of Hutchison to Harriet Stewart in aberdeen city. Seeing as his father was not on his birth certificate-he would not have him on his marriage certificate, I downloaded his oldest brother james's birth certificate and he was definately registered as parent present. It's all very murkey as when Young James was born in 1889, Mary ann Stewart and James Hutchison were in Arbroath,at 15 School Wynd, however, it said that she was domiciled in Fraserburgh.
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Well,stranger things have happened. I have found several instances where an illegitimate child has named their father on marriage records. The only other thing I would check is if there's any poor relief records for James Hutchison.The application form contains a wealth of personal information.It's definately worth checking.Good luck,
flst.
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When I first started this research I was aware of Charles through talking to older family members - the only sibling they were unaware of was James. My understanding is that Charles didn't change his name to Hutchison and was known as Charlie Stewart and lived in/near Inverness for most of his years - although he often visited the Aberdeen area. He was a talented musician like other family members and there are recordings of his music that I can locate.
I am certain he is Mary's son. The register of his birth states he was born in Seagate Place, Peterhead - that is the same building that the family resided in at the time of the 1901 census, so perhaps they lived there for a few years. It also notes Mary as being a domicile of Fraserburgh. Mary also signs her name with an X shape on the register of John's birth.
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The registers of two of Lizzie's marriages note James as her father, but he was on her birth register that would be expected.
Robert's marriage certificate names James as his father despite not being mentioned on his birth certificate.
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I noticed that the family lived at Seagate while not out in the countryside in the summertime, and that would have been normal, but if you bear in mind that the father James died prior to David being born, then Charles would not have been a full sibling, and maybe another relation adopted him, but I am in touch with Lizzies off spring and they seem to think that there was another girl who died, but maybe it was Charles and they adopted him out.
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Found Mary and children in 1911 for you both. The family was living at 36 Berry Street, St Nicholas Aberdeen. More children born after Charles...
Mary* STEWART or HUTCHESON, 43, mar.(ried), married 12 years, 4 children born/living. Occupation that of a pedlar. Born in Fraserburgh
David Hutcheson 10 b. Lonmay
Charles Hutcheson 8 b. Peterhead
Margaret Hutcheson 4 b. Aberdeen
Donald Hutcheson 2 b. Aberdeen
* Mary scored through and then Margaret written - writing not clear so not surprising about possible confusion.
Mary looks to have given confusing info on her census return which doesn't help :-\ However, you have two new members of the family :)
Monica
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shock horror monica :P
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I'm lost for words-who was the father?
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Of the youngest two children? You would need to double check their birth entries but there may not be any name(s) included for father as you found on some the birth entries already...
Monica
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I printed out that 1911 Census and I see that they are also living in the same building as another James Stewart and his family.
I see that there was a bit of a muddle on the records there but the thing that ties it together is David who was thought to be the youngest. Many thanks to you Monica.
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Hazel, looking through this post again, the one thing that stood out to me again was the age gap on the 1901 census between Robert aged 7 and then baby David (he must have been 6 months not 1 month old as showing on the transcript?). Big gap there. Either Mary and James split up/he died or there were a number of early deaths for their children.
I know you have David's descendants talking about the coal mining ref and possible Newcastle origins for David's father. We know that this background does not apply to James Hutchison.
Maybe your earlier comment is getting warmer to what may have happened?
...This particular James died on October 3rd 1899, and David was born in August 1900. I have it on good authority and I have heard it on a recording in Edinburgh that David said that his father was a coalminer from Newcastle and that he was not from the Travelling Society. Maybe the three youngest boys did have a different father.
Monica
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Found Mary and children in 1911 for you both. The family was living at 36 Berry Street, St Nicholas Aberdeen. More children born after Charles...
Mary* STEWART or HUTCHESON, 43, mar.(ried), married 12 years, 4 children born/living. Occupation that of a pedlar. Born in Fraserburgh
David Hutcheson 10 b. Lonmay
Charles Hutcheson 8 b. Peterhead
Margaret Hutcheson 4 b. Aberdeen
Donald Hutcheson 2 b. Aberdeen
* Mary scored through and then Margaret written - writing not clear so not surprising about possible confusion.
Mary looks to have given confusing info on her census return which doesn't help :-\ However, you have two new members of the family :)
Monica
This just gets better and better :) Strange that nobody has heard of Margaret and Donald - will be interesting to find out what happened to them!
The address of Berry Street also rang a bell - Lizzie gave birth to her eldest child there (William Hutchison) - in 1910.
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I printed out that 1911 Census and I see that they are also living in the same building as another James Stewart and his family. I see that there was a bit of a muddle on the records there but the thing that ties it together is David who was thought to be the youngest. Many thanks to you Monica.
Mary's oldest brother, Donald, had a son named James who was born in Pitsligo about 1868, so the James Stewart in the census may be Mary's nephew...
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Hazel, looking through this post again, the one thing that stood out to me again was the age gap on the 1901 census between Robert aged 7 and then baby David (he must have been 6 months not 1 month old as showing on the transcript?). Big gap there. Either Mary and James split up/he died or there were a number of early deaths for their children.
I know you have David's descendants talking about the coal mining ref and possible Newcastle origins for David's father. We know that this background does not apply to James Hutchison.
Maybe your earlier comment is getting warmer to what may have happened?
...This particular James died on October 3rd 1899, and David was born in August 1900. I have it on good authority and I have heard it on a recording in Edinburgh that David said that his father was a coalminer from Newcastle and that he was not from the Travelling Society. Maybe the three youngest boys did have a different father.
Monica
It is possible that there could have been more children, however the ages in the 1901 census are deceiving - Robert is less than four years older than David. October, 1896 v August, 1900.
I think all we can be sure of is that James was the father of James, John and Lizzie... it is possible he is the father of Robert... it is unlikely he is the father of David (if his father is a miner from Newcastle)... it is almost certain he is not the father of Charles, Margaret and Donald.
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Ok. I've downloaded the birth entries of Margaret and Donald and as expected they were both born illegitimate with no mention of the father.
Margaret McPhee Stewart was born on 14th of February, 1907 at 21 Shoe Lane, Aberdeen.
Donald Stewart was born on 10th of February, 1909 at 56 Hutcheon Street, Aberdeen.
Robert.
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That helps to confirm the details on Margaret and Donald's births.
What do we think about James Hutchison? Hard to say what happened to him isn't :-\ Given how loose details were around Mary Ann, I would think that her showing as a widow in 1901 is not a given...compounded by the fact she shows as married in 1911.
The main details for James Hutchison so far are likely that 1891 census entry with Mary Ann and perhaps that 1881 census entry.
I think even if we found a death cert for him, how would we know that it was the right one?
The death entry in the poorhouse in Aberdeen in 1899 shows a James, 61, single, labourer, son of a James Hutcheon and Ann Grant. Not convinced this is the slightly younger basket maker, confirmed father of the first three Hutchison/Stewart children....
There is this possible birth entry to match the 1899 death cert https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XBW2-WFQ
Monica
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Maybe just a co-incidence of birth year and parents' names for the James I mentioned above.
An entry from 1891 makes me think that the James from Methlick with matching parents is not the one. There is a James Hutchson, living with wife and children in Old Marchar. A police constable by occupation, born Methlick born 1834.
Monica
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The main details for James Hutchison so far are likely that 1891 census
h.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XBW2-WFQ
Monica
I've looked into this census record as it's the only one we are sure of as being him and has his 'age' and 'place of birth'. There is a James Hutchison that was born in Edinburgh in December, 1850 (father David Hutchison, mother Janet Wilkie) - a few trees on ancestry have assumed this James to be correct one, but I am not convinced.
This James does fit with the 1891 census record, albeit he is from a settled family who lived in Canongate, Edinburgh for many years. The 1881 census record for this James notes his occupation as 'commercial traveller' which is interesting.
However, I have also found a record of this James marrying an Elizabeth Ferguson in June, 1891 - in the middle of the period he was having children with Mary. So, unless he was a 'bigamist' and travelling back and forth between the north east and Edinburgh regularly, this can't be our James...
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I agree Robert. I also saw the mention of the Edinburgh James is some people's research but for similar reasons, counted him out...
That is when I jumped to the 1881 entry to see where that could take us. Flst found likely details of a Dundee birth for the young Catherine, illegitmate, mother an Elizabeth Hutchison.
Curiosity got the better of me & I downloaded the birth certificate for Catherine Hutchison (born 1874 )in Dundee.She was illegitimate. Her mother was Elizabeth Hutchison, pauper,formerly a spinner in factory. Perhaps there's poor relief records available for her showing more details about the Hutchisons. Could it be that Catherine (senior) & James were siblings?
flst
I haven't looked at the original entry for 1881, so not sure what relationship is given for the James, Catherine snr. and younger, other than lodger and daughter.
Catherine Sullivan 55, Heather Croom Maker, b. B.Ferry, Forfarshire
James Hutchison 34, lodger, basket maker, b. Aberdeen, Aberdeenshire
Catherine Hutchison 33, lodger, hawker, b. Aberdeen, Aberdeenshire
Catherine Hutchison 5 daughter b. Dundee
Address: Dundas St, Bell'S Land, Monifieth Angus
Possible for young Catherine in 1891:
Cathrine Hutchan, 16, General Serv: Dom, b. Dundee working at W Brakens Rd, Brakens Farm in Strathmartine, Angus.
Monica
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Flst found likely details of a Dundee birth for the young Catherine, illegitmate, mother an Elizabeth Hutchison.
Curiosity got the better of me & I downloaded the birth certificate for Catherine Hutchison (born 1874 )in Dundee.She was illegitimate. Her mother was Elizabeth Hutchison, pauper,formerly a spinner in factory. Perhaps there's poor relief records available for her showing more details about the Hutchisons. Could it be that Catherine (senior) & James were siblings?
flst
I haven't looked at the original entry for 1881, so not sure what relationship is given for the James, Catherine snr. and younger, other than lodger and daughter.
Catherine Sullivan 55, Heather Croom Maker, b. B.Ferry, Forfarshire
James Hutchison 34, lodger, basket maker, b. Aberdeen, Aberdeenshire
Catherine Hutchison 33, lodger, hawker, b. Aberdeen, Aberdeenshire
Catherine Hutchison 5 daughter b. Dundee
Address: Dundas St, Bell'S Land, Monifieth Angus
Possible for young Catherine in 1891:
Cathrine Hutchan, 16, General Serv: Dom, b. Dundee working at W Brakens Rd, Brakens Farm in Strathmartine, Angus.
Monica
Monica, I checked the original 1881 record and all three (James, Catherine snr & jnr) are listed as lodgers. James and Catherine snr are noted as married (presumably to each other?) and Catherine jnr is noted as unmarried (obvious for a 5 year old!). There is no mention of Catherine jnr being the daughter of anyone. Could she be the neice of James and her mother Elizabeth is no longer about?
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I'm thinking that James lied several times about where he came from, or he forgot what he told people, and if you tell a lie, the next time anybody asks anything you forget, as it isn't the truth. I noticed that Edinburgh track and I thought that it wasn't that far from Newcastle. I have to tell you that David was John's double, (his older brother) and they certainly look very much alike except that David was taller and slimmer. Also, the father of the youngest three had the nickname of Foley as a first name, whoever he was.
Talking about all the Catherines, it is odd that the landlady was also Catherine, and could she have been related to the other two Catherines.
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In the off-chance that anyone might still be following this thread, please PM me. I may have (potentially) very useful info on this particular family which ties in quite well with a lot of the foregoing...
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Hullo Rob - cheers for the message, apparently I've to make three posts before I can respond - here's 2...
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And three! Should hopefuly be able to respond now