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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Suffolk => Topic started by: windy_miller on Wednesday 08 August 12 21:28 BST (UK)
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Hi all,
I'm still adding to my milling db (going through the Royal Exchange Fire Insurance books at the moment (there is so much data!!!)).
I'll trying to put BMD to these bakers cum millers that have appeared through my REFI research. Any help would be great. I've included mill locations and the dates they insured via REFI.
Tiffen, Daniel Needham Mkt. 1777
Collet, Robert Halesworth 1785
Colchester, Samuel Needham Mkt. 1787
Colchester, Edward Needham Mkt. 1794
Moyes, William Saxmundham 1797
Once again, anyone needing info on a miller in the family...gives me a shout and I'll see what I've got.
Cheers
Windy
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Do you have anything on Needham millers in Lincolnshire?
tks
Edward
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Sadly my db is mostly Suffolk millers & mills.
I might be able to dig up some thing if you give me more details (Needham is a surname? Where abouts in Lincolnshire and what sort of time frame are we talking about?). It will still take some time as I'll have to locate outside sources.
Windy
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Suffolk Marriage Index
Samuel Colchester of Needham Market
Hannah Wilson
21st May, 1771
Creeting, All Saints
Edward Colchester of Needham Market
Susanna Worledge
29th September, 1793
Creeting St. Peter
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Sadly my db is mostly Suffolk millers & mills.
I might be able to dig up some thing if you give me more details (Needham is a surname? Where abouts in Lincolnshire and what sort of time frame are we talking about?). It will still take some time as I'll have to locate outside sources.
Windy
May be a bit early for REFI
Holbeach, Ashby Puerorum, Fulletby, Bolingbroke, Hameringham, Louth & Keddington !! 1750 - 1850
Known forenames are Isaac & Abraham plus possibly Richard & Thomas.
fyi, if interested, Google Earth, put in Ashby Puerorum. Head North West and there is a white house. Just above this are the 'remains' of 2 windmills. North of AP are the probable remains of a deserted village.
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Hi Sue,
Thanks for that. Both Wilson & Worledge are names associated with mills in Suffolk and in that general area but neither from the Creetings specifically. Hummm....very interesting indeed.
Windy
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Hi Edward,
I've just check my REFI db and although I have some entries for Lincolnshire none cover the villages in question (so far I'm on Vol. 34 and have only reached 1797....still a way to go!). I'll try to check other sources, as I said, but this will take some time.
Windy
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Thanks for looking
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Hi Edward,
Looked up Ashby Puerorum. Could not see the windmill remains. Where about are they relative to the Church? Would be interested in pinning these 2 down. They are not in Pete Dolmans book on Lincolnshire Windmills!
Windy
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Have a look at http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?ll=53.234986,-0.026615526&z=15&t=h&hl=en-GB
They were pointed out to me by an archaeologist at the Lincoln Archives
I knew that there was at least one mill there as it is mentioned in some mid c18th documents.
Does the book mention any of the others?
Edward
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Evenin' Edward,
I have had another look and maybe can spot something, but not 100% sure. Pete Dolmans book is a gazette of remain in about 1978. He make no mention, even in the recently lost section. That does not mean they are not there, though I knew Pete and he had the thoroughness of a train-spotter.
I'll see if there are any other source too and get back to you.
Windy
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I hope one or two of these may give you a start:
widow TIFFEN buried 4 Mar 1829 age 90+ wife of Daniel. Needham Mkt Ind Cong
Edward COLCHESTER of Needham buried 24 May 1835 (75) Creeting St Peter
Susan COLCHESTER of Needham buried 8 Oct 1797, wife of Edward late Wortledge sp. Creeting St Peter
Samuel COLCHESTER of Creeting All Saints (73) buried 22 Dec 1819 Creeting St Mary.
William MOYSE (inf) buried 23 Apr 1797 son of William & Margaret late Mabsom sp. Saxmundham St John Bap.
Robert MOYSE (inf) buried 30 Apr 1796 ditto
A William MOISE married in 1794 in Kelsale not far from Saxmundham but you will need a sub to FindMyPast to get details or a friendly person to check the PRs to see if it was to a Margaret Mabsom.Familysearch suggests it was to a Margaret Mabson 25 Mar 1794 Kelsale (Eng ODM).
K
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Hi Keziah,
That really helps. I'll check out the Parish Reg. in Ipswich RO next time I'm passing to pin down Wm. Moyse wife's name. Thanks!
Windy
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Abraham Needham was the miller of a post mill on Nab Hill at Fulletby, Lincolnshire during the Napoleonic Wars. He was transported to Van Diemens Land at some point, for some misdemeanor, but managed to make it back home to Blighty. He was known by Henry Winn, of Fulletby, who wrote, that Abe had "a mania for building windmills" . Winns diaries are kept at the archives at Lincoln. I believe Abraham Needham is most likely my ancestor on my Mothers side. My G.Grandfather was also called Abraham Needham .b 1851 at Fulletby, son of George Needham (& Elizabeth Blades). I would be most interested if anyone could make the link between the miller Abe and George Needham, in fact, I would be over the moon to find I have milers on both sides of my family. Fingers crossed.
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Pete, you may recall that we had a very long e-mail exchange some time ago on Abraham and the Jobson family.
The last e-mail I sent you was back in 2009 and I never received a reply.
I have just sent you a PM with my e-mail address and would be grateful if you can send me a mail back.
The Abraham / Isaac / George link was cracked about 6 or 7 years ago, I just couldn't tell you.
regards
Edward
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Thanks Edward.
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Hello
Just registered on Roots Chat and my family originated from Hollesley Suffolk. I have a descendant Benjamin Turtle or Turtill born 1786 died 1856 who was a miller. He also had 2 sons who also were millers. If you have any info on Benjamin, it would be helpful. Unfortunately his father was a mariner so it does not look as if you can overcome a brick wall I have for James Turtle who was Benjamins grandfather born about 1720. Don't even know whether the mills in the area were water mills or wind mills. Later descendants moved to Battersea London and the Miller as a profession appears to have died out in the family.
thanks for any help you can give.
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Hi Windy
Do you have any info. on Mills in villages west of Bury St Edmunds
Thanks
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Hi Alan,
From my records it appears that Benjamin was milling at Hollesley at "Howards's Mill". He appeared to be miller here in 1809, so 23 years old, and remained here until his death.
He was married to a Mary (name unknown (any ideas?)) who died aged 39 in 1829.
He then remarried Miss Scholding of Felixstow in 1830.
His death (aged 72) was recorded in the Suffolk Chronicle 1856/11/08.
I've searched the rest of my database and I have nothing else. I hope this helps.
Windy
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Hi Delen,
My db covers the whole of Suffolk. There were my mills west of Bury. Where are you interested in?
Windy
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Hi Windy
Gt Saxham, Lt Saxham, Risby
Thanks
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Thanks Windy for the info on Howards Mill.
Information on the internet is thin as the only record I have on Benjamin's wife was the name Mary Turtle which I doubt is her maiden name. From my investigations he married a third time to Elizabeth Alexander on 19th October 1840 at Levington / Felixstowe.
thanks for your help.
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Hi Alan,
Just re-checked my records (they are quite as organised as I would like) and it appears that a Benjamin Turtle (miller) married a Mary Pintle in Hollesley in 1809. This I appear to have got from Marriage Licences 1806-1816 in Ipswich Record Office.
Does this help?
Do you have any info relating to BT and the mill?
Windy
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Hi Delen,
Gt Saxham, Risby
Great Saxham or Little Saxham may have had a mill in about 1280. Records very sketchy. Check out “A History of the Abbey of Bury St. Edmunds”, (Woodbridge, 2007).
Same source suggests Risby had a mill too at the same time, and a windmill was granted to Abbey of BStE by Ralf le Breton in 1200, see 1 P.R.O. MS. D.L. 42.5 (Bury Cellarer’s Cartulary), fol. 42v.
Hope this helps and it you find anything else I'd be grateful if you could tell me so I can added it to my db.
Cheers,
Windy
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Alan,
Was BT listed as a miller at the time of the 1840 marriage?
Windy
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Hi Windy
Re the mills in Saxham and Risby do you have any names of the Millers?
Thanks for you help
Delen
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Hi Windy
Thanks for the name of Mary Pintle. I live in Cyprus so local access is difficult. Probably Mary Pintle was misread as Mary Turtle.
I have found a description of the Mill of BT as a capital post windmill which drives 2 pair of french stones,is in the best state of repair and has a good grist and flour trade. and has good round house.
situated within 2 1/2 miles of Boyton Dock, and 4 miles of Ramsholt Dock, from both of which places Corn shipped for the London Markets ; it is also within 8 miles of Woodbridge, one of the best Corn Markets in the County. The above taken from Suffolk chronicle Sat 17 June 1837 but probably didn't sell as similar auction dated 21 June 1845.
BT described as Miller in 1841 census and Miller and farmer in 1846. In 1851census described a Farmer only of 22 acres but whites directory in 1855 described a Corn miller.
Dies woodbridge 1856.
Benjamin son born 1820 described as Miller up to 1861 but dont think he practiced as he lived in Battersea London from 1846.
Other son Robert Turtle also miller at Trimley St Martin in 1841c
thanks for your help much appreciated
Alan
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Re Windy Millers reply dated 25th March 2018.
I have now found, listed in the Doomsday book, that Risby had half a mill.
Can you throw any light on this?
Also do you have a record of any of the Millers names? (Risby)
Many thanks
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Hi delen,
Very late coming back to you, sorry.
No millers at Risby, and the Doomsday ref you talk about I think refers to either a water mill or and animal-driven mill (horse/oxen, etc). The fact that it only had a half suggests that it shared the mill (stones) with a nearby village. I believe that when a "mill" is mentioned in the Doomsday Book it refers to a pair of stones (being one mill), rather than a building as we understand a mill these days. Even powerful water mills in pre-1066 england would have only had 2 pairs of stones at best, and animal-driven mill mosdt likely only 1 pair.
Plots the villages with mills (stones) shows nearly all are by rivers, and those outside of a river catchment would be animal-driven. Certainly no windmills, as these did not arrive un UK till after the start of the Crusades, when soliders brought back the muslim technology.
I hope this helps,
Windy
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Hi delen,
Very late coming back to you, sorry.
No millers at Risby, and the Doomsday ref you talk about I think refers to either a water mill or and animal-driven mill (horse/oxen, etc). The fact that it only had a half suggests that it shared the mill (stones) with a nearby village. I believe that when a "mill" is mentioned in the Doomsday Book it refers to a pair of stones (being one mill), rather than a building as we understand a mill these days. Even powerful water mills in pre-1066 england would have only had 2 pairs of stones at best, and animal-driven mill mosdt likely only 1 pair.
Plots the villages with mills (stones) shows nearly all are by rivers, and those outside of a river catchment would be animal-driven. Certainly no windmills, as these did not arrive un UK till after the start of the Crusades, when soliders brought back the muslim technology.
I hope this helps,
Windy
Hi Windy Miller, I may have asked this before in regards to my Titshall family but have you got any info in my database on Richard Titshall miller? He was born 1728 in Barnham and died in 1807 in Framlingham. Or any Titshall's (and variants) listed in your database?
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Hi Coombs,
May be you did. I'm getting too old to remember ...
Anyway,
there was a Richard Titshall at Saunder's Mill in Dennington c. 1753 (from private deeds)
there was another at Hacheston Mill c.1790-1858 (fathers & sons?)
there was another at Redlingfield Mill (IJ) 1798/05/12
Do you know he was a miller? Where & when was he milling (I'd like to add him to my list if he is not covered by the above)?
Windy
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Hi Coombs,
May be you did. I'm getting too old to remember ...
Anyway,
there was a Richard Titshall at Saunder's Mill in Dennington c. 1753 (from private deeds)
there was another at Hacheston Mill c.1790-1858 (fathers & sons?)
there was another at Redlingfield Mill (IJ) 1798/05/12
Do you know he was a miller? Where & when was he milling (I'd like to add him to my list if he is not covered by the above)?
Windy
Hi, I knew from other records he was a miller as he was subject to a settlement in 1769 where it said he was a miller. He was apprenticed to Ambrose Wicks in 1741 in Barningham as a miller, and married in 1748 to Judith Scarfe. They lived in Great Ellingham in Norfolk for a time so must have been in Dennington by 1753. Thanks for the 1753 reference, so it was from private deeds? Either Richard owned it or leased it.
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I'm going to check the photo of the Deeds tomorrow. I took them back in 2009 when the mill site own allowed me to. Unfortunately the cameras back them were not as good as today, and I want the check my facts are right.
He (R. Titshall) is mentioned in the deeds but I need to check that he was there and when (the deed is for 1817 but mentioned previous indentures and parties).
Windy
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Hi Coombs,
I think back in 2009 I did a very brief check on the deed photos and seem to have got muddled. I'm currently transcribing it and it appears that Richard T was at Bedingfield and the year was 1790 (this is from the 1817 deed). I also have photos of 9 other Dennington Deeds relating to the mill and 4 abstracts (so more details, and the 1753 reference may still re-emerge!
Sorry if I've made thing confusing.
I have attached the line mentioning RT that I have found so far. Do you agree that he is at Bedingfield (its hard to read)?
Windy
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Hi Windy Miller.
It does seem to read Bedingfield for the 1790 ref, or it could be Shadingfield but looks more like Bedingfield. Thanks for the image, I look forward to the 1753 one.