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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Kildare => Topic started by: forthefamily on Friday 10 August 12 15:41 BST (UK)
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I am researching my husband's family tree and have recently found out that his Great Great Grandmother was a Mary Keys.
Mary Keys (or Kays) married James Brady on June 2, 1878 at St Mary's Pro Cathedral in Dublin. I found the record on an Irish Gen site.
On the record it shows that her parents were Francis Keys and Elizabeth of Co. Kildare.
It also shows on the 1901 and 1911 census that Mary was from Kildare.
Has anyone run across this surname in their research?
Any help much appreciated :)
mab
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On Griffith's valuation there are 2 Keys properties listed on Co. Kildare - one near to the town of Clane the other in Athy town.
see : Keys, Co. Kildare (http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml?action=doNameSearch&Submit.x=37&Submit.y=11&familyname=keys&wildcard=on&firstname=&baronyname=&countyname=KILDARE&unionname=&parishname=)
There is also one entry as Kays, also near to Clane : Kays (http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml?action=doNameSearch&Submit.x=30&Submit.y=19&familyname=kays&wildcard=on&firstname=&baronyname=&countyname=KILDARE&unionname=&parishname=)
These returns are dated 1852.
Shane
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several entries on Griffith's for various Francis Keys - but none of them are in Co. Kildare. Four in Co. Femanagh, one in Antrim.
Do you have a civil cert of the marriage for Mary ?
Should show an occupation for Francis which might help..
Shane
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Couple of headstones in St Michaels Athy;
William Keys; 1920 (75)
wife-Margaret; 1928? (92)
Elizabeth Keys; ? (83)
Margaret Keys; ? (26)
James Keys; ? (84)
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Katherine Keys; Meeting Lane Athy
27/1/1966
erectecd by Peter, Peg, Lina
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Daniel Keys; Raheendarragh 3/1/1960 (74)
wife-Harriet; 27/11/1974 (85)
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Elizabeth Keys; March 1960 (47)
erected by bros/sis
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Landed Estate Court Rentals;
Michael Keys; 1867-1871-1872
Newtown Donore Kildare
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Jack
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Thank you both for your fast replies ;D
It doesn't seem to be a very common name in Kildare. I didn't know about this surname or the Kildare connection until just recently.
Shane I haven't got the civil cert for the marriage as yet. I just have a copy of the church registry which gives very little information I'm afraid.
mab
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here are the likely marriage references from the BMD Index in case you decide to order a cert at some stage.
Name: Maria Kays
Registration district: Dublin North
Event type: Marriage
Quarter and year: Jul - Sep 1878
Volume : 2 / Page: 491
The same references appear for a James Brady
A civil record would include occupations (groom, fathers and sometimes the bride), but wouldn't add much else - see : Details included on a Marriage Cert (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,433042.0.html)
Shane
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p.s. I'm not 100% convinced that the name of Mary's father is Francis... the priest has distinctive capital F's on other entries...
Think it may possibly be John (Joannes)... still checking...
S.
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Yes it could be Joannes ??? I went by the top record.....the "translation". The name of the groom's father and the brides father do look somewhat the same....John then.....maybe :-\
That could be why I can't find anything. I should know better by now....LOL
mab
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The priest for most of the marriages is Fr. Farrell .. 3rd column on the 2nd page. Fairly consistent F with a clear cross-bar
When you compare then, the first names of the fathers look very similar... just a larger 1st letter on the bride's father's name
S.
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If it is John, then there's a marriage of a possible sister to Mary in Rathmines the previous year, which includes mother's maiden name.
see : Marriage of Patrick Farrell & Bridget Keys - 18 Nov 1877 (http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/ee0d8f0013171)
Shane
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Thank you ;D
I'll take a look.
mab
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I found a birth of a Maria Eleanor Farrell in 1889......parents Patrick Farrell and Bridget Keys....at the Vance Buildings Lower Bridge Street. Baptized at St Audoen's.
Lower Bridge Street was an area that the family I'm researching seemed to live around but then it may have been a Catholic area in the day...... and quite a few of the family were baptized at St Audoen.
AND
One of Mary Brady's children who was baptized in 1888 has a Patrick and Bridget Farrell as sponsors. The Farrell surname comes up in a few records. I wondered who the Farrells were ;D
mab
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Even better....in 1911 Mary Brady and Bridget Farrell...both widows...live next door to each other in the Vance's Buildings.
Could be a coincidence :-\
mab
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both born Co. Kildare too...
S.
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and both have 'years married' as 33 years, crossed out on the forms but still visible & transcribed - so c1878... which fits the Rathmines and St. Mary's marriages..
S.
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Yes ;D
mab
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A little bit more information.
I found this baptism record:
Name: Margaret Keys
Date of Birth: 10-Jun-1859
Date of Baptism: 19-Jun-1859
Address: Mylerstown
Parish: Allen
County: Co. Kildare
Parents : John Keys & Elizabeth Mullaly
Sponsors: Michael Molony and Mary Lawless
So this would be another sister of Mary Brady nee Keys and now I know an address of sorts.
mab
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Hi,
Have you considered getting your husband to take part in the Key (and variations) DNA project?
Its on the FTDNA website and would help you find living relations with the same surname.
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It's a great idea but he's not interested :-X Mainly because he doesn't think it will reveal much.
mab
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Well you should keep the DNA test in mind, If wanting to know the deeper origins of a Paternal line. Especially when the FTDNA is running a sale, I got a 12 marker Y DNA test inc. postage for about £30. They keep your results on record forever and as more and more people take the test the results become more and more telling. It can be quite surprising what you can find out with the Y DNA. Its amazing how many unrelated KEYS families there are within Ireland. Although the majority are in Ulster. They have already identified quite a few distinct groups of KEYS.
The Fermanagh KEYS: Very likely to be of Scottish Origin, from the Ulster Plantation. Anglicised from McKee,McKey.
The Donegal KEYS:Of Anglo-Norman origin who came to Ireland in the 1500's. Their name was originally De Guise.
The Biggest KEYS group from all over Ireland are of English origin with various spelllings like: KEYS,KAYS,KEYES,KAY, KAYE,KEAYS all related and in the G haplogroup.
Although It is also possible that people with the surname Keys may be of Native Irish Origin anglicised from O'Keogh or similar names it is unlikely.
If your Keys family are from originally Killdare and in what was the pale. It is most likely that they are of English descent. As this area has the oldest and most concentrated English settlement in Ireland. Long before the reformation and the plantations.
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That's very interesting to know. Thank you.
I did put another query on a site called Ireland Reaching Out. I was contacted by another Keys researcher who gave me a database of 200 Keys which I unfortunately haven't had a chance to do any in depth research on. I've been focusing recently on my own much neglected family tree.
mab
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Hi,
I've only just discovered this site and did so by getting to the point in my search where I too was following up the Keys and Kildare connection. Mary Brady nee Keys is my great-great grandmother. Her daughter Anne married my great grandfather Lawrence Brophy. I have several photos of them. They moved to Liverpool post 1911 Census with Lawrence and their several sons all working on the Anglican Cathedral as stone-masons. Before they left Dublin however they lived at Lower Bridge Street - on the 1911 Census. Re the Keys, as you will have seen Elizabeth Keys is a 72 year old widow on the 1901 Census living with the Bradys. The absence of Censuses between 1851 and 1901 is so frustrating. I had got as far as doing a search on these earlier Censuses in Kildare for any Keys but none came up for some reason. The responses by other users of this site sound very promising though... will keep you informed if I elicit anything interesting.
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...I should have made it clear in my previous posting that until the 1921 Census data are released I'm not sure when the Brophys left for Liverpool - the only thing that's certain is that it's after 1911 if they're in Dublin at that time. It may be they were still in Dublin in 1921. My grandfather - son of Lawrence Brophy and Annie Brady, and grandson of Maria Brady - nee Keys - married my grandmother in Liverpool in 1928 so they had certainly arrived by then.
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Hello Gwen :)
Welcome to Rootschat.
Here is another string of posts about the Brophys..........http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=655138.0
Laurence Brophy that married Annie Brady was born in Dublin on 27 Sep 1879. His parents were Laurence Brophy and Catherine McDermott.
Those of us who have searched cannot find out much about Catherine. I do have her burial record from Glasnevin. One researcher even hired a professional research firm but no luck.
Laurence Brophy married Annie Brady at the Dublin Pro Catherdral on 30 Jul 1899.
As far as I know they had the following children: Catherine Christina 1899-1900, James 1902, Laurence Leo 1903-1990, Patrick 1905-1963, John Joseph 1909-1936 and William 1910.
Laurence and Annie went to Liverpool about 1914. I know this as I have some enrollment information from St Patrick's in Liverpool.
Laurence Leo, James and Patrick were enrolled at St. Patrick's in Liverpool on November 30, 1914. John was enrolled on January 11, 1915. Previously they had attended St. Bridget's in Dublin. I didn't find anything about William but he is still living as he later married in Liverpool in 1931.
As you say Laurence and at least one of his brothers were stone mason's on the Anglican Cathedral in Liverpool.
Laurence and Annie Brady were my husband's (also Laurence) great grand parents. Their son Laurence Leo Brophy is my husband's grandfather.
There are so many Laurences in this family that you have to give them numbers....LOL
Are you descended from their son Patrick?
The Brophys were from Black Quarry and later Walkins Street, Kilkenny. The Keys were from Mylerstown, Kildare.
I have done quite a bit of research on the Key name and it's variations. There is still a lot to learn.
If you're interested I have a tree on Ancestry.uk.
http://person.ancestry.co.uk/tree/3397183/person/-1644537137/facts
We have a picture of my husband and his sister with Laurence Brophy as well but I'd love to see the pics you have.
mab
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Well what a wealth of info - the stuff that is new to me is fascinating; I've wondered for so long about the pre-Dublin lives of the Brophy's... Also Laurence being married twice - Catherine McDermott is on the marriage certificate for Laurence II who married Anne Brady as his mother but I hadn't realised there was a second wife. Yes, the plethora of Laurences is confusing - I have to stop sometimes and make sure I'm thinking about the right one. I too noticed the 'uncle' thing in the Census - how weird.
The pro Cathedral must have been a stunning place for a wedding - and handy as the Bradys were living on the same street. It looks like for the more 'modern' period we've been treading the same ground.
Yes, I'm descended through Patrick. I see someone on the site hadn't realised the Liverpool thread of the Brophys which of course is very strong. I remember James (Jim) who was married to Mary, nee McManus. They lived in Violet Street which crossed with Stananought Street. You asked about the photo I have of Laurence Brophy - it was taken on the steps of the house in Stananought Street. I also have a photo of Annie Brophy nee Brady with several of her grown up sons. Laurence who was married to Annie was my father's grandfather and has the same jet black hair that my father had. I also have a photo of the stone masons working on the cathedral - not sure if you have that or would like to see it? Laurence is on it as well as at least one of his sons as I recognise James/Jim but there may be others. My father remembers having to take his father Patrick's lunch to him at the cathedral before he went to school so certainly Patrick (Paddy) worked there too.
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Just thinking I may post that previous posting on the Brophy thread also...
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I wondered if James had married and I have a Mary McManus as a possible. So that is good to know. Those pictures you mentioned aren't familiar to me so yes I'd love to see them. The only Brophy I have met from the older generation is Laurence Leo Brophy and his wife Ada on a visit to Liverpool in August 1989. Ada died in 1989 and Laurence died in 1990.
Here is Laurence Leo Brophy and his wife Ada Brophy nee Dooley. The date on the first picture should read 1953 not 1853 ::)
I have been researching my husband's family tree for well over 10 years now.
mab
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Thank you, I've never seen those pictures.
Re Jim Brophy, he married Mary McManus in 1923. She is originally from Dublin - and clearly from around the same area as the Brophys as she was born in the Rotunda Hospital. Her mother interestingly was born in India so whether her father in turn was working there I'm not sure. Mary was very devout I recall, and again I recall as a child she was an extremely kind person.
I've tried posting the pics - the pic I mentioned of Laurence, standing on the step of Stananought Street and a group picture shows Laurence in the front row - the one with very dark hair and the long work apron. Jim is in the very top row of - the one of two people; he is on the right. You may recognise other Brophys in the pic? However even just putting one photo only on the posting it won't let me do so saying it's 'too large'.
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...meant to add too that Jim died in 1968 aged 66. All the brothers who worked with stone died relatively young, certainly by today's standards, of various pulmonary type diseases.
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Hello Gwen
I've sent you a personal message:)
mab