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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Essex => Topic started by: mark1965 on Friday 17 August 12 16:58 BST (UK)

Title: Look up 1891 - Epping - Joseph Napoleon Dodge
Post by: mark1965 on Friday 17 August 12 16:58 BST (UK)
Hi,

I was hoping someone could help me please.

I am looking for Joseph Napoleon Dodge born Bethnal Green (1846/1852)

married to Johanna Catherine Gilbey

one son I know of  Joseph Dodge Junior b. 1890

one later son Edward F Dodge born 1899.

Don't know much else - Joseph has a registered birth in 1846 but marriage certificate (1889) and death entry 1924 both equate to 1852!

Any help much appreciated.

Thanks, Mark
Title: Re: Look up 1891 - Epping - Joseph Napoleon Dodge
Post by: Dazey999 on Friday 17 August 12 17:03 BST (UK)
Hi Mark
Another son:

Arthur John Dodge
born 20 March 1893
baptised on 25 April at St Peter, London Docks
address:  1 Meeting House Buildings
Joseph's occupation: packing case maker

and a daughter ... Nellie

baptised on 25 Apr 1893, born 17 Apr 1889, along with Joseph Napoleon Jnr
Dazey
Title: Re: Look up 1891 - Epping - Joseph Napoleon Dodge
Post by: KGarrad on Friday 17 August 12 17:10 BST (UK)
Be careful!
There is a Joseph Dodge, born 1845 in Buckinghamshire, also living in London.
Also a Joseph Frederick Dodge, born 1849 in Islington.

But there is the marriage:
28th January 1889, St James the Great, Bethnal Green
Joseph Napoleon Dodge (37, bachelor) to Johanna Catherine Gilbey (21, spinster)

Fathers: Joseph Dodge (deceased) and Thomas John Gilbey (deceased)
Title: Re: Look up 1891 - Epping - Joseph Napoleon Dodge
Post by: keyboard86 on Friday 17 August 12 17:55 BST (UK)
Hi all, what do we think of this family in 1891:- ?

Joseph DAVIS 40 occ Packing Case Maker b London
Kate 24 b Loughton
Nelly 2 b Shoreditch
Joseph 6 months b Loughton
Residing in Stepney
RG12/293/21/36
Keyboard86
Title: Re: Look up 1891 - Epping - Joseph Napoleon Dodge
Post by: Dazey999 on Friday 17 August 12 17:57 BST (UK)
Oooh, Well done Keyboard  ;D
That's GOT to be them!
Title: Re: Look up 1891 - Epping - Joseph Napoleon Dodge
Post by: keyboard86 on Friday 17 August 12 18:11 BST (UK)
Hi if the 1891 is them, then in 1901 they are still Davis with extra children Arthur 8, b Shadwell, William 5 b Shadwell, Percy 3 and Edwin 1 born East Ham, Essex
Census Ref RG13/1604/40/18
Keyboard86
Title: Re: Look up 1891 - Epping - Joseph Napoleon Dodge
Post by: johnhood on Friday 17 August 12 18:29 BST (UK)
Interesting post this. Ten years on from last census the children are still "Dodge" but mother is Harris but theirs a death of a Johannah Dodge 1940 aged 78 in Lambeth.

John
Title: Re: Look up 1891 - Epping - Joseph Napoleon Dodge
Post by: mark1965 on Friday 17 August 12 18:31 BST (UK)
wow this is very intriguing as my friend says there is something of a family mystery about Joseph Dodge.

The wife Johanna Catherine is nee Gilbey and the family believe she was a relative of Sir Walter Gilbey - the family who introduced the widespread use of the wine bottle in England - not sure if there is some link there - this family's circumstances don't appear to warrant a relationship with a Baronet!
Title: Re: Look up 1891 - Epping - Joseph Napoleon Dodge
Post by: keyboard86 on Friday 17 August 12 18:45 BST (UK)
Hi  their is also this marriage, and I believe Joseph Davis is still around ten years from the last census?

Samuel C Harris to Johana C Dodge Sept 1917 Romford 4a 936

Keyboard86
Title: Re: Look up 1891 - Epping - Joseph Napoleon Dodge
Post by: johnhood on Friday 17 August 12 19:01 BST (UK)
This is getting silly!!!! Johanna C Dodge/Samuel C Harris marriage March q 1930 west ham. Death, Johanna C Harris aged 61 (1871) corresponds with forbidden census 1932 West Ham,

John
Title: Re: Look up 1891 - Epping - Joseph Napoleon Dodge
Post by: mark1965 on Friday 17 August 12 21:37 BST (UK)
Hello - thanks for all your efforts - it is much appreciated.

A lot of questions here 2 marriages to the same man plus living under his name in an earlier census. Could Johanna have remarried again after the death of her first husband to avoid bigamy?
Plus 2 death registrations to the same woman and discrepancies with ages and places of birth all over the place
Why change original name to Davis but not the children - could it be a typo or debt/family avoidance. a mystery - definitely worthy of the name Dodge.


Thanks, Mark
Title: Re: Look up 1891 - Epping - Joseph Napoleon Dodge
Post by: keyboard86 on Friday 17 August 12 22:06 BST (UK)
Hi Mark, well if this death registration is correct, then possibly they waited until 1917 to finally become legitimate!

Joseph Dodge March 1915 Shoreditch 1c 128 aged 65

Keyboard86
Title: Re: Look up 1891 - Epping - Joseph Napoleon Dodge
Post by: mark1965 on Saturday 18 August 12 21:02 BST (UK)
Thanks for everyone's help. This is what you helped me build if anyone is interested. Regards, Mark


Joseph Napoleon Dodge born in the east end of London in Q1 1846 son of Joseph Dodge. He married Johanna Catherine Gilbey on  28 Jan 1889 at St James the Great Church - Bethnal Green

Interestingly on his marriage certificate he states year of birth as 1852 (6 years later than his registered birth date.

Johanna Catherine Gilby (no e) was born in Loughton, Essex in 17/02/1869 – Mother Mary Gilby – no father mentioned on birth certificate although according to marriage certificate her father was Thomas John Gilbey (deceased).

In the 1891 census both Joseph and Kate were living under the surname Davis in Stepney – I couldn’t find out why they changed their name.

Children as follows
17/4/1889  Nellie Dodge, b Shoreditch, 1890 Joseph Napoleon Dodge, b Loughton,
23/3/1893 Arthur John Dodge, b Shadwell, 1897 Percy  Dodge, b East Ham, Essex,
1899 Edwin F Dodge, b East Ham, Essex

Joseph’s occupation was Packing Case Maker at the London Docks.
In the 1901 census the couple are still under the name Davis although the children are baptised Dodge.

In the 1911 census Joseph has disappeared and although no new partner is present Johanna is registered with the children as Catherine Harris.

I now have 2 marriage registrations of Johanna Dodge to a Samuel C Harris
The first - Married Samuel Cecil Harris (aged 36) widower 25.07.1917 St Luke's, Ilford, Essex. Father's name given as Thomas Gilbey deceased - profession given as 'Independent'

The second Johanna Catherine Gilbey (aged 59) widow married Samuel Cecil Harris (aged 48) bachelor 10.02.1930 West Ham. Father's name given as Thomas Gilbey deceased - profession 'of no occupation'

I believe this to be the same couple although they married twice on top of the fact she was down as Mrs Harris in 1911!

I have 2 Joseph Dodges died in London – one in Q1 1915 age 65 and one in Q1 1924 aged 72. Not sure which one although I favour the second this would mean Johanna married bigamously This would again put his birth year around 1850 so he was consistent in lying about his age.

Also interesting is I have two death registrations for Johanna C Harris
The first in West Ham in 1932 – age 61
The second  in Lambeth in 1940 – aged 78, so again a discrepancy in the year of her birth and why two deaths so far apart.  Lots of mysteries here – definitely dodgy!
Title: Re: Look up 1891 - Epping - Joseph Napoleon Dodge
Post by: keyboard86 on Saturday 18 August 12 21:46 BST (UK)
Hi  their is also this marriage, and I believe Joseph Davis is still around ten years from the last census?

Samuel C Harris to Johana C Dodge Sept 1917 Romford 4a 936

Keyboard86

Hi Mark have you thought about the one son who is not shown as a Dodge ie Joseph b 1891 Loughton, also their is the obvious corruption of Davis ie Davies!

Also, Johanna C is not shown as Catherine but transcribed as Johannh E
Keyboard86
Title: Re: Look up 1891 - Epping - Joseph Napoleon Dodge
Post by: johnhood on Sunday 19 August 12 09:47 BST (UK)
MARK
Having read through your summary please note there are not 2 deaths for a Johanna C Harriis. One is for a death of a Johannah DODGE 1940 aged 78 in Lambeth.
Also in 1911 Johanna is with Samuel Harris.

John
Title: Re: Look up 1891 - Epping - Joseph Napoleon Dodge
Post by: mark1965 on Saturday 25 August 12 19:51 BST (UK)
Hi,

Thanks or everyone's help.

Turns out the Percy Dodge you guys found is the great Grandfather of Tracey Emin recently featured on who do you think they are - and one of the questions raised is why did Percy Davis change his name to Dodge in 1926 - well I think we found half of that answer - so something the WDYTYA researchers missed maybe?

Regards, Mark
Title: Re: Look up 1891 - Epping - Joseph Napoleon Dodge
Post by: chritopher dodge on Tuesday 04 September 12 13:23 BST (UK)
any more info on this would be great as edwin f dodge was my grandfather , heard plenty of the family stories on this re gilbey and seen letters etc but all a bit of a family mystery !!! Would love to know more was joseph napoleon dodges father the greengrocer ? does it go back any furhter than him ? thanks in advance for your help , anything would be great , amazed about Tracey Emin !!!Bet she would be too!!!

One of the stories was  joseph napoleons  mother was french ? not sure though.
Title: Re: Look up 1891 - Epping - Joseph Napoleon Dodge
Post by: keyboard86 on Tuesday 04 September 12 15:35 BST (UK)
Hi a possible in1861 RG09/241/89/13 Greengrocer Carman
Keyboard86
Title: Re: Look up 1891 - Epping - Joseph Napoleon Dodge
Post by: keyboard86 on Tuesday 04 September 12 20:12 BST (UK)
OK so what appears to be same family in 1851:-

Joseph Dodge b 1825 occ Greengrocer b Shoreditch
Emily 1828 b St Matthew Bethnal Green
Emily 1 month b Shoreditch
HO107/1536/310/1

Marriage Joseph Dodge to Emily Taylor Dec qtr 1848 Islington 3 221
So where is Joseph jnr from 1861 if same family?
Keyboard86

PS just re-read thread, have I missed the reference to father being a Greengrocer?
Title: Re: Look up 1891 - Epping - Joseph Napoleon Dodge
Post by: chritopher dodge on Tuesday 04 September 12 23:57 BST (UK)
hi key board not really too sure about joseph napoleons father being a greengrocer , this was something that poped up on a census i looked at years ago the dates looked to be right but i am not very good at this , but remember seeing joseph napolean there as carman living with mother emily and father joseph  very keen to know to clear up the stories
Title: Re: Look up 1891 - Epping - Joseph Napoleon Dodge
Post by: keyboard86 on Wednesday 05 September 12 00:37 BST (UK)
hi key board not really too sure about joseph napoleons father being a greengrocer , this was something that poped up on a census i looked at years ago the dates looked to be right but i am not very good at this , but remember seeing joseph napolean there as carman living with mother emily and father joseph  very keen to know to clear up the stories

Hi the only way at present to clear up this apparent query is, if you are certain the Joseph Napoleon we have followed through to possibly 1911, is your Joseph, would be to purchase the birth certificate, then at least you can confirm occupation of father, and maiden name etc of mother?
Keyboard86
Title: Re: Look up 1891 - Epping - Joseph Napoleon Dodge
Post by: chritopher dodge on Wednesday 05 September 12 09:21 BST (UK)
Key board thank you , i will purchase the birth certificate , remind me where from ?  a while ago i did purchase the marriage cert of this joseph to johanna gilbey pretty sure this is the right one , not many joseph napoleons around ! it also lines up with my grandfather edwin frederick born 1899 , thanks again for your help
Title: Re: Look up 1891 - Epping - Joseph Napoleon Dodge
Post by: mark1965 on Wednesday 05 September 12 19:45 BST (UK)
Hi

Looking at the 1851 & 61 census. On the 61 census Josephs age is 14, although they have misread it as 11 thereby giving year of birth as 1850. 1851 His mother is Harriet & father John. He has siblings Henry H, John J, Ercole C & Frederick although another misreading gives the family as Gedge , Joseph & Frederick start a new page with correct name translations.They are at 5 Orange St St George the Martyr, Middlesex, England. Joseph b Shoreditch. In 1861 Henry, Joseph & Frederick remain with family although John (father) is scrubbed out (must be absent) described as commercial traveller. No age for him but birth at St Anns Westminster. I found Ercole's baptism just to link the family, can,t have been many
England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
Birth:   28 Feb 1844   
Ercole Charles Dodge
Christening:   24 Mar 1844   CHRIST CHURCH,?HOXTON,?LONDON,?ENGLAND Parents:   John Dodge,? Harriet. Christian names in those days tended to have a degree of laxity.

By the way I did this research for your cousin Sally who lives in Beer Devon.

Regards, Mark
Title: Re: Look up 1891 - Epping - Joseph Napoleon Dodge
Post by: chritopher dodge on Wednesday 05 September 12 21:40 BST (UK)
hi Mark,

Thank you very much for all of this , yes Sally is my cousin i got started on this a few years ago and then didnt have the time to look any further and didnt really know how i gave everything i found out to sally and thankfully she has got you to help out with the family mysteries which fascinate us both , and now it looks even more interesting  ERCOLE what a name  , we have always found joseph napoleon a bit of a name considering what was going on near that time !!

Is there anymore you can find out ?

Sally and myself have been told a few bits about the family history but not much past our grandfather Edwin , his wife  vera (our grandmother) used to let on more than our grandfather and we have been told bits of the history but possibly some of it what they wanted us to know !
 
Title: Re: Look up 1891 - Epping - Joseph Napoleon Dodge
Post by: mark1965 on Wednesday 05 September 12 22:19 BST (UK)
Hi,

It's registrations now so you need to confirm parents of Joseph from marriage registration - I think you can order from findmypast.com - you have to buy credits from them - there are other ways - don't remember specifically.

Obviously Ercole dodge is a name to pursue if he is JNDs brother. Or get JNDs birth certificate - that will give you parents surnames. That would be a good start to confirm everything up until now. Going back further is difficult as BMDs were not registered before 1837 on any national level - that would mean visits to local family history centres - OK if you are in London - trickier if you live down here. I have probably taken it as far as possible for free - you now need another break to kick start further research. The main problem is that the family probably disappear into the seething mass of humanity of early 19th century so  difficult to trace with any confidence. I will have another look at any other sources I have. Let me know if you firm up any names.

Gilbeys is another line - there is quite a lot of interest online referring to Johanna - especially from descendants of her children from second marriage. Look at the letters you have for any clues. One of her grandchildren was told she was the daughter of Sir Walter and she was raised by Gilbey grandparents although names on census do not tally with Sir Walter's parents. But with illegitimacy it is alway sgoing to be difficult.

Regards, mark
Title: Re: Look up 1891 - Epping - Joseph Napoleon Dodge
Post by: findem on Wednesday 05 September 12 23:11 BST (UK)
Hi,

I think you'll find the GRO would be less expensive than getting BMD certificates from Findmypast.

https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/default.asp

Regards.
Title: Re: Look up 1891 - Epping - Joseph Napoleon Dodge
Post by: Ladyhawk on Thursday 06 September 12 12:51 BST (UK)
ERCOLE what a name  , we have always found joseph napoleon a bit of a name considering what was going on near that time !!  Is there anymore you can find out ?

Just for info. it would appear the origin of the name Ercole is Italian meaning “splendid gift"  (Italian version of Hercules)
 
I have to say any child is a splendid gift  :)

Or
Ercole meaning ‘Hera’s Glory’ mainly Italian


Obviously Ercole dodge is a name to pursue if he is JNDs brother Or
get JNDs birth certificate - that will give you parents surnames.

That would be a good start to confirm everything up until now.


Not sure if you have this info. or how accurate it is no middle name given for Ercole's brother Joseph

There’s this link families with surname of Dodge, http://www.dodgefamily.org/Genealogy/EnglishDodges/worldfile/index/ind0069.html this is the info. they have listed for Ercole Charles Dodge

John Dodge b1803 died 17 Jun 1898 Kentish Town married 1832 St Anne’s Westminster
Harriet Rose died 28 Aug 1873 Thanet Ramsgate

named children of John & Harriet

Stuart ?

Henry 30 Mar 1834 St Anne Soho Westminster

John Henry
6 Sep 1835 St Pancras Old Church

John James
1 Apr 1838 St Anne Soho died 17 Jun 1898 Kentish Town
married 13 Apr 1876 St Pancras Anne Eve Ibbetson
children: Anna Marion, Harriet, Mary Ann, Richard, Edwin & Edith Caroline

Harriet Betsey 15 Dec 1839 St Martins in the Field

Thomas Henry 20 Jun 1841 Hoxton New Town

James Malcolm Henry 9 Oct 1842 Hoxton New Town

ERCOLE CHARLES 28 Feb 1844 Hoxton New Town married 1 Jun 1868  Sophia Clementine Stuart

Joseph 1847 Hoxton New Town

Fredrick 1851 “          “          “

No actual birth/baptism dates for Stuart and only date/place for Joseph & Frederick

As keyboard said the only way to confirm Joseph Napolean Dodge’s parentage etc is to order the 1846 birth certificate 

Here are the references of Joseph Napolean & Ercole Charles from FreeBMD, you can order from GRO if you wish (see the link provided by findem)

Joseph Napoleon Dodge Birth Jun qtr. 1846 District E.London vol.2 page 219

Joseph Napoleon Dodge marriage Mar qtr. 1889 district Bethnal Green Vol 1c page 246
Name on same page Johannah Catherine Gilbey

Joseph Napoleon Dodge birth Mar qtr. 1890 district Epping Vol 4a page 286

possible deaths
Joseph Dodge age 65 (1850) Mar qtr. 1915 district Shoreditch vol 1c page 128
Joseph N Dodge age 72 (1852) Mar qtr. 1924 district Romford vol 4a page 621

Encole Charles Dodge birth Mar qtr. 1844 District Shoreditch Vol 2 page 448

Ercole Charles Dodge marriage Jun qtr. 1868 district Shoreditch vol 1c page 298 name on same page Sophia Clementina Stuart

Ercole Charles H Dodge  birth Jun qtr. 1870 district Camberwell vol 1d page 656
Ercole Charles H Dodge death Jun qtr. 1870 district Camberwell vol 1d page 397

Possible birth & death entries for Ercole’s wife
Sophia Clements  ??? Stuart Jun atr. 1851 Newington Vol 4 page 409
Sophia Dodge age 66 (1843) Dec qtr. 1912 Paddington vol 1a page 1

I can't place Ercole & Sophia Dodge together on the 1871 census after their marriage
Haven't got full transcript but wondered if this his her with a daughter named Blanche  ???

1871c Camberwell
Sophia Stubbs Wilthew 70 Yarmouth Norfolk
Sophia Stubbs Dodge 20 Camberwell Niece
Blanche Dodge 2 Dalston
plus 1 servant, 2 boarders

1881c Paddington - Westbourne Cottage Great Western Rd
Blanche Dodge age 12 (1869) London

there's this marriage in 1846 Camberwell
Sophia Stubbs Clements  name on same page Joseph Thomas Wilthew/Wiltham

Sophia Clements bapt 24/11/1800 St Nicholas Yarmouth born 22 Nov
Parents Edward CLEMENTS & Mary STUBBS (family search)

ADDED

Haven't got full details of the marriage of
Sophia Clementina Stuart to Ercole but her father is named as
George Stubbs Clements Stuart

and from family search George has the same parents as Sophia Stubbs Clements

George Stubbs Clements bapt 20 Oct 1798 Yarmouth Norfolk
Parents Edward Clements & Mary Stubbs (family search)











Title: Re: Look up 1891 - Epping - Joseph Napoleon Dodge
Post by: chritopher dodge on Friday 07 September 12 09:35 BST (UK)
Lady hawk , thank you so much for taking the time to look this up , fantastic can you keep looking for anything more on Joseph napoleon dodge and johanna gilbey line ,   i will now order there birth certs and then hopefully this will lead to  john and harriet , names i never knew !!! or even can you look into them at all in any way  finding this fascinating , and thanks again

Mark and findel thanks again to you i will now order the certs and let you know when i have them and what it says any help is great as the family dont know to much but will be pleased to hear this
Title: Re: Look up 1891 - Epping - Joseph Napoleon Dodge
Post by: carol crisp on Sunday 12 January 14 14:42 GMT (UK)
Started using rootschat yesterday and was very surprised & thrilled to see your chat on joseph napoleon dodge i was a dodge before i married and as far as i can ascertain your grandfather was my dad's brother, my sister can remember him but she knew him as uncle eddie, hoping you will send me a message re this.
Title: Re: Look up 1891 - Epping - Joseph Napoleon Dodge
Post by: Ladyhawk on Sunday 12 January 14 16:49 GMT (UK)
Hello and welcome to Rootschat Carol Crisp  :)

Mark1965 was last active in Dec 2013 but Christopher Dodge hasn't been on roots for sometime (2012) but if their e-mails are still active they will receive notifications of these post and hopefully be back in touch

In the meantime if you come back and make two further posts you will be able to
use the personal message system on rootschat -  if you wish to exchange any private information
etc... only you and the person you have pm'd can view the details

Here's a link to show how it works
http://www.rootschat.com/help/pms.php

Title: Re: Look up 1891 - Epping - Joseph Napoleon Dodge
Post by: carol crisp on Tuesday 11 February 14 12:11 GMT (UK)
Thanks for your welcome to rootschat 
Title: Re: Look up 1891 - Epping - Joseph Napoleon Dodge
Post by: tidybooks on Tuesday 11 February 14 12:32 GMT (UK)
Hi Carol,

Had a wee look, Mark1965  can be notified on PM but not forum replies. Christopher Dodge can receive both, and has been notified of your 2nd post, so fingers crossed.

Tom

Reply to this will be your 3rd post, so you can then use the PM system.
Title: Re: Look up 1891 - Epping - Joseph Napoleon Dodge
Post by: carol crisp on Tuesday 11 February 14 16:54 GMT (UK)
Thanks Tom I await any replies 
Title: Re: Look up 1891 - Epping - Joseph Napoleon Dodge
Post by: mark1965 on Saturday 07 June 14 14:09 BST (UK)
Hi - if you are still looking for information please get back to me. THis is not my family but looked it up for a friend.

Regards,Mark
Title: Re: Look up 1891 - Epping - Joseph Napoleon Dodge
Post by: chritopher dodge on Thursday 08 January 15 20:09 GMT (UK)
Hi there Carol i havent been here for a while dont know how to get hold of you so will do two posts
Title: Re: Look up 1891 - Epping - Joseph Napoleon Dodge
Post by: chritopher dodge on Thursday 08 January 15 20:10 GMT (UK)
Hi Carol ,

Not sure if im allowed to put an email here but here goes anyway *

*Moderator comment: No,'fraid not.  If you wish to contact other RootsChatters to exchange personal e-mail addresses, please use the personal message system.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Look up 1891 - Epping - Joseph Napoleon Dodge
Post by: Ardmore47 on Wednesday 25 July 18 23:41 BST (UK)
I'm very interested in this topic. I think Joseph Napoleon Dodge was born on March 10, 1846 in Bishopsgate, and was the much younger brother of my great-grandmother Ellen Dodge. Their parents were Joseph Dodge (originally from Brighton, Sussex) and Mary (Wordsworth or Wadsworth) Dodge (originally from Sonning, Oxfordshire). I believe I know Joseph Napoleon and Ellen's ancestry back as far their paternal grandparents and maternal great-grandparents, at least, and I've pieced together quite a bit about the family story in the early to mid 19th century. The family seems to have used the names Dodge and Davis somewhat interchangeably as far back as about 1840 -- generally keeping the name "Dodge" on formal documents (birth and marriage records, anyway), while also frequently using "Davis" in the census (and perhaps in general daily use), probably because of their history in the late 1830s, or particular events that took place around that time. If this thread is still active, and if anyone remains interested, I'd love to hear from them and would be happy to share what I know (or at least what I believe!).
Title: Re: Look up 1891 - Epping - Joseph Napoleon Dodge
Post by: carol crisp on Friday 27 July 18 11:55 BST (UK)
I'm very interested as Joseph Napoleon was my paternal grandfather, it seems your great-grandmother would have been my father's aunt possibly making us distant cousins. Would value any photos you may have of the the family and also the "family story" Look forward to more information from you.
Title: Re: Look up 1891 - Epping - Joseph Napoleon Dodge
Post by: Ardmore47 on Saturday 28 July 18 08:49 BST (UK)
Hi, Carol. It's good to hear from you. I wanted to communicate with you via personal message, but I don't seem to be able to do that (I think because I'm new to RootsChat and haven't posted enough yet). But anyway, here's a start. My great-grandmother, Ellen (Dodge) Cooper was born in Brighton in about 1834. I'm pretty sure that her parents were Joseph Dodge (born in Brighton in about 1812) and Mary (Wordsworth or Wadsworth) Dodge (born in Sonning, Oxfordshire, in about 1810). I don't know where they met, and I haven't been able to find any marriage record for them. But it seems that they lived together in Brighton from about 1830 or 1831 until about 1839 or 1840. Joseph was a cab driver, like his father (also called Joseph Dodge; he apparently came from Devon or Dorset originally, but spent most of his life in Brighton). They lost several (maybe three) sons in the 1830s, and it looks like they ran into difficult times financially. They moved to London in about 1840, apparently leaving Ellen with her grandparents in Whitchurch, Oxfordshire (where she was living, aged about 6, at the time of the 1841 census). A son, Alfred John Dodge, was born in early 1841, in Bermondsey. Around that time, the family apparently started to use the surname "Davis", at least for some purposes (for example, in the 1841 census), and Joseph was using the forename "Alfred". Another son, Richard Davis Dodge, was born at No. 2, Bakers Buildings, Bishopsgate, in December 1843. And another, Joseph Napoleon Dodge, was born at the same place in March 1846. Joseph/Alfred disappeared sometime between 1846 and 1851 (he probably died, but I've not been able to find any death record for him). In 1851, Mary (apparently then a widow) was living at 8 Cumberland Street, Shoreditch, with Ellen, Richard and Joseph; their surname was listed in the census as "Davis"; there was no indication of how she was earning a living. Her oldest son, Alfred John (known then as "John"), was in Whitchurch with his grandparents. Ellen married my great-grandfather, Charles Cooper, in Shoreditch in December 1853 (when her brother Joseph Napoleon would have been aged 7). In 1861, Mary was still at 8 Cumberland Street, working as a laundress, with Alfred John, Richard, and Joseph Napoleon, but now using the surname "Dodge". Charles and Ellen were nearby, at 10 Cumberland Street, with their first three kids. My grandfather, William Cooper, was born at 5 Plough Yard (very close to Cumberland Street) in December 1861. The Cooper family moved to St. George in the East, and then to Shadwell, between 1861 and 1871. At the time of the 1871 census, my grandfather William (aged 9) was with his grandmother Mary (who was still working as a laundress, but now using the surname "Davis") at 2 Plough Yard (very close to where he was born in 1861). Also there was Joseph Napoleon (my grandfather's uncle), then aged 24 and working as a porter (and also using the surname "Davis"). I think Mary died sometime between 1871 and 1881, but I've not been able to find any clear record of her death. By 1881, Ellen had died, Charles was living in Limehouse with their three youngest children, and my grandfather William had joined the army (the Army Hospital Corps); Joseph Napoleon was, I think, living on his own (as "Joseph Davis") in Shadwell, still working as a porter. Apparently sometime between then and when he married in 1889 he started working as a packing case maker. I suppose it's possible that he was doing that for his nephew Charles Cooper (my grandfather's older brother, born in Shoreditch in 1855), who by then had become a very successful manufacturer and seller of rat and insect poisons based in Limehouse (my great-grandfather, Charles Cooper Sr., appears to have worked as a salesman for his eldest son, Charles Jr., towards the end of his life).

Apparently Joseph Napleon and Johanna (Gilbey) Davis/Dodge had at least eight kids between 1889 and 1906 -- Nellie (1889), Joseph Napoleon (1890), Arthur John (1893), William Thomas (1895), Percy Ernest Mitchell (1897), Edwin Frederick (1899), Richard Charles (1902) and Bertram Leonard (1906). Which one of them are you descended from?! I don't know anything about this branch of the family, but would be interested to hear more.

I have a fair bit more information about the Dodge family in Brighton, about the Wordsworth (or Wadsworth) family in Oxfordshire and London (several of Mary's siblings moved to London in the 1830s and 1840s), and about Joseph Napoleon's siblings (Ellen, Alfred John, and Richard) and their families .... but enough for now!
Title: Re: Look up 1891 - Epping - Joseph Napoleon Dodge
Post by: Ardmore47 on Monday 30 July 18 23:02 BST (UK)
If anyone would like to talk about any pieces of this story (see my last post), please send me a private message -- I have far too much information to post everything here. I'd be very happy to hear from anyone who wants to know more, or who can add anything to the story that I've been putting together, but I'd prefer to do it privately. I'd be happy to provide anyone with my regular email address, in a private message. But I'm struggling a bit with the PM function here -- messages seem to disappear for no apparent reason (but perhaps this is just a reflection of me being new to the site!).
Title: Re: Look up 1891 - Epping - Joseph Napoleon Dodge
Post by: Sorita Deste on Monday 08 April 19 12:18 BST (UK)
Hello!  If there is anyone still actively researching this family I would love to hear from you!
Title: Re: Look up 1891 - Epping - Joseph Napoleon Dodge
Post by: carol crisp on Monday 08 April 19 12:55 BST (UK)
Hi

Would love to know your connection to JND mine is that he was my father Bertram's father

Regards Carol