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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Topic started by: Cramond Brig on Sunday 19 August 12 11:12 BST (UK)
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Private Peter Black, Black Watch (Royal Highlanders), already had a suspended sentence of death for desertion when he went missing a second time just before going into action. His absence lasted for a month and, after Court Martial, he was shot on 18 September 1916 near the border between France and Belgium.
This one of the 306 men who were “shot at dawn” in WW1 and eventually pardoned in 2006. He is remembered in a special memorial at the National Memorial Arboretum. The circumstances of his Court Martial are clear and reasonably well recorded, but it is proving a problem to find where he was born, who his parents were etc. His Service Record is missing, so if anyone has direct knowledge of this man, please let me know.
The original thread is at http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,611191.0.html
Alistair
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In Friday's(24th August) Dundee Courier there is an article about a Peter Black and controversy about the Newport , Fife war memorial in the 1920's(Craigie Column)
It would seem that this is the Peter Black that was executed
This was a reply and unfortunately I didn't see the original article
ev
http://www.fifetoday.co.uk/news/local-headlines/gordon-sbook-tells-the-stories-behind-the-names-on-newport-and-wormit-war-memorial-1-151513
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That looks really promising Ev :) A couple of possibilities in the 1901 census for Peter Blacks in the Fife area.
From what you say Ev, another article appeared last Friday (24/8) in the Dundee Courier? Can't easily see anything here www.thecourier.co.uk which is a pity.
A good lead to follow up, Alastair :)
Monica
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Sounds very promising. Like you., Monica, I can't get at anything from "The Courier".
Alistair
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From here: PRIVATE PETER BLACK, 20, 1/4 Black Watch, deserted going into action. Shot 18.9.1916.
www.thefreelibrary.com/The+men+set+to+be+pardoned+after+80+years+of+being+branded+cowards...-a060362834
Age c.20 (if accurate) in 1916 could potentially be up to three Peters (from 1901):
Peter Black b. circa 1895, son of George and Maggie. Living 166 South St., St Andrews, Fife, where this Peter was born. Father George a gardener by trade.
Peter Black b. circa 1894 in Leith and living at the Adamson Institute in Cupar, Fife.
Last one one in Fifeshire from 1901, a Peter son of Catherine born circa 1894 in Dunfermline, living at 71 Brucefield St.
Hopefully, with Ev's lead, you can make some headway :) You could contact the Courier tomorrow and ask for a copy/background on Friday's article?
Monica
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From Ev's lead, another source:
Daily Mail, October 15, 2011
Town that fought for honour of a 'coward'
AT the height of the First World War, Private Peter Black was shot for fleeing in the face of the enemy.
The Black Watch soldier was 21 when he died an ignominious death in France at dawn on September 18, 1916.
His reputation should have been for ever sullied - and when the good folk of his home town, Newport-on-Tay in Fife, decided to erect a cenotaph to honour its 84 sons who fell in the war, it was decreed Black's name should be excluded.
That sparked another conflict. Angry townsfolk threatened to destroy the memorial if his name was left off. Two former comrades stole enough gelignite to 'have the whole lot …
www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-269790430.html
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I'm on it, Monica ;). I have also contacted the Tay Valley Historical Society.
I've come across the Adamson Institute before. Started out as a hospital, I believe, and was then purchased by Leith Holiday Homes to send poor children from Leith on Holiday, which explains why one of the Peters got there from Leith.
Alistair
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"I was interested to read the item in your column about the 1920's controversy surrounding our war memorial in Newport
The story of Peter Black has always been of great interest to people here. Nowadays young soldiers suffering from shell shock or similar afflictions , as Peter Black clearly was , would receive help , care and counselling.
In the harsh days of the First World War , however more than 300 British soldiers were "shot at dawn" for cowardice and/or desertion to set an example to others
At Poperinghe , near Ieper in Belgium , and very close to Les Trois Arbres cemetery where Peter is buried , one can visit a prison cell where some of these soldiers were held before execution.
I have visited Peter Black's grave several times. The first time was in 1999 with pupils from Bell Baxter High School , Cupar , on our annual WW1 battlefield tour
I found this very poignnant on two counts - firstly because Peter had not been much older than these teenagers and , secondly , because I thought that very probably we were the first visitors to his grave in 83 years
We always left a small wooden poppy cross when we visited , but we never saw any evidence of other visitors"
M. S. of Newport-on-Tay(Dundee Courier 24th August 2012)
ev
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A 1911 entry for a Peter Black, can we figure him out? Missing the earlier page with father's name...booo!
Starts:
Mary Black, 46, wife, b Kemback
Peter Black 16 b. St Andrews
Andrew Black 12 b. St Andrews
James Black 7 b. Flisk (?spl)
A second wife ( :-\) - one child/living - married 9 yrs.
I am connecting this back to the one mentioned earlier from St Andrews - all the children in this household born in St Andrews, fifeshire:
George Black 36, Gardener Jobbing, b. Cupar Fifeshire
Maggie Black 37 b. Cameron, fifeshire
James Black 12
Agnes Black 10
George Black 8
Peter Black 6 b.
Andrew Black 2
Address: 166 South St, St Andrews
Monica
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Adding as background to Private Peter Black...
The memorial's design was entrusted to Edinburgh architect Sir Robert Lorimer. He decided Black was 'unsuitable for a Roll of Honour' and claimed a number of bereaved parents had refused to submit the names of their sons for commemoration if he was included.
It was a lie. Mr Van Emden said: 'There was vociferous objection and the townsfolk threatened to wreck the memorial.' It was no idle threat, as two former soldiers, with the unlikely names of John Spark and James Squib, stole explosives from a local quarry and warned they would blow up the cenotaph if the demands of the community were ignored.
Everyone in the town had known and liked the gentle Black, who suffered from a mild mental illness.
Spark said later that Black should never have been sent to the Front.
In fact, the 'deserter' fought at the battles of Neuve Chapelle, Aubers Ridge and Loos before he disappeared on the eve of the Somme.
In a letter to the local paper, one bereaved mother wrote: 'If his name is omitted, then they may as well leave my laddie's off, too.'
A public meeting in the town in May 1922 was attended by 300 people, whose campaign forced the memorial committee to resign.
When the memorial was unveiled four months later, it bore the name of Black, whose body lies in the Trois Arbres Cemetery in the French town of Steenwerck. He was eventually pardoned in 2006.
Mr Van Emden said: 'The dispute between those in public office and former servicemen was never better illustrated.'
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Thank you, Monica and ev.
Alistair
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Hi,
Peter Black was my Great Great Uncle, my grandmother who passed away did a television interview regarding him when they were trying to get him a pardon (he was her uncle).
I will help you with any questions any way I can.
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Peter Black was my Great Great Uncle, my grandmother who passed away did a television interview regarding him when they were trying to get him a pardon (he was her uncle).
I will help you with any questions any way I can.
Thanks for responding. If you could start by confirming who his parents were, his father's occupation and their address. When Peter was born, where he was educated and his employment before enlisting. And really any other information that will fill out the story.
There seemed to be a lot of support for him and a feeling that a great injustice had been done.
I look forward to hearing from you.
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Hi gc01 and Alistair
gc01,welcome to RootsChat :)
Alistair, I was watching the 'uplifting' Sunday "The Village" on BBC, and because of your work here on RC on these young men, the minute 'Joe' didn't show up back at barracks...I knew what was going to happen :'( I thought of you with your work of trying to archive their real lives and details....
Monica
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Alistair, I was watching the 'uplifting' Sunday "The Village" on BBC, and because of your work here on RC on these young men, the minute 'Joe' didn't show up back at barracks...I knew what was going to happen :'( I thought of you with your work of trying to archive their real lives and details....
Monica
Hi Monica
Some of the real life stories seem more fictional than fiction.
Alistair
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I am sure they are....that is what is so sad about it all.
Monica
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Truly sad. Lest We Forget.
Imber
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Peter Black was my Great Great Uncle, my grandmother who passed away did a television interview regarding him when they were trying to get him a pardon (he was her uncle).
I will help you with any questions any way I can.
Thanks for responding. If you could start by confirming who his parents were, his father's occupation and their address. When Peter was born, where he was educated and his employment before enlisting. And really any other information that will fill out the story.
There seemed to be a lot of support for him and a feeling that a great injustice had been done.
I look forward to hearing from you.
Did you get this info Cramond Brig?
There's quite a bit about Blacks story in the Newport & Wormit War Memorial book, nothing on his family oddly.
A look at the 1911 census shows the only Peter Black of about the right age in Fife in 1911 resided at Newport on Tay aged 16, he was born in St Andrews and was still at school.
His family were all born in different parts of Fife, his mother Mary aged 46 born at Kemback, two younger brothers Andrew 12 and James 7 born in St Andrews and Flisk.
His father was on another page so didn't see his info.
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I'm afraid I didn't get a reply. I would have liked to get a copy of the book but it appears to be out of print.
Alistair
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Hi Alistair
see link below ref book
http://www.tayvalleyfhs.org.uk/component/virtuemart/fife-interests/the-newport-and-wormit-war-memorial-details
Yours Aye
BruceL
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Many thanks, Bruce.
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Hello.. Great story of local loyalty for all the sons, brothers and fathers who when to war.. Does anyone have the details of Peter Black's service number by any chance, as I would like to follow upon.. reminds me of the story told in the BBC's Village a few years ago....
Please advise
Regards
Mark Webster
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If earlier posts on this thread are correct then this is him:
Private
Service No:6744
Date of Death:18/09/1916
Regiment/Service:Black Watch (Royal Highlanders) 1st/7th Bn.
Grave Reference:I. B. 1.Cemetery:TROIS ARBRES CEMETERY, STEENWERCK
Imber
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Thanks very much, noticed Peter was still awarded medals for the Great War ... I wonder what the family would have felt when they were sent through knowing what had happened to him.... Story would make a good documentary drama ...
Regards,
Mark
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His entry in the Scottish Statutory Record of Deaths (a copy of Army Form W.3231) records the Cause of Death as “Other Causes”. Causes of death given for some other Black Watch soldiers around that time are Died of Disease, Died of Wounds, Killed in Action and Missing Presumed Dead. His entry in the Roll of Honour at the Scottish National War Memorial at Edinburgh Castle records the cause of death as “Died”.
Imber
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Thanks Imber ... found another images relating to Peter... his pardon
Regards
Mark