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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: pompet on Sunday 19 August 12 10:36 BST (UK)
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Could any body assist me to find details for John Bray who was a miner in Cobar New South Wales. He married Elizabeth Skinner Hensley in 23 August 1883 in Holy Trinity Church Orange. I have no details as to his Birth date or date of death ,or his parents names
any assistance would be appreciated
Pompet.
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This is a possibility for Elizabeth:
http://austcemindex.com/inscription.php?id=8541223
Leanne
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Could anyone assist me with a few details on John Bray who was a miner in Cobar New South Wales. I don't have his birth date or his death date.
He married Elizabeth Skinner Hensley on 23 August 1883 in Orange
I would appreciate any information you can find ,& if I'm really lucky, there may be information on his parents.
Thank you
pompet
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Hi
WW1 record for his son JOHN who was killed in action, lists his sister Effie McGuiness as next of kin, as both parents are deceased by 1916.
Record can be found at this link
http://www.naa.gov.au/collection/using/search/
Muss
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Well-found Muss :)
Marriage notice doesn't mention family
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article13544805
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article13545471
regards,
Ros
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Could be them
JOHN H BRAY 9963/1863 Father HENRY Mother GRACE at FORBES
WILLIAM BRAY 11087/1865 Father HENRY Mother GRACE at FORBES
GRACE BRAY 10870/1866 Father HENRY mother GRACE FORBES
ELIZA BRAY 14121/1868 Father HENRY Mother GRACE at ORANGE
RUTH BRAY 14544/1870 Father HENRY Mother GRACE at Orange
Neil
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Seems they did not marry in NSW?
Some deaths of members
8810/1875 ELLEN BRAY at Orange
5244/1869 ELIZABETH BRAY at Orange
4665/1862 ELIZA BRAY at Forbes
20202/1923 WILLIAM BRAY at forbes
13841/1914 GRACE BRAY at Goulburn
17262/1914 EMMA BRAY at Forbes
Neil
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His marriage certificate should list his age, place of birth and his parents' names.
6727/1883
BRAY John
HENSLEY Elizabeth S
District Orange
Transcriptions are available for $18 in NSW and you will need the reg#
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/howToTraceYouFamTree.htm#TranscriptionAgent
I did wonder about this death until I found they had their last child in Broken Hill in 1891
Children's births
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0q7z/
Death
13202/1889
BRAY John
Father William Mother Elizabeth
District Orange
Did Elizabeth S died in 1910 at Cobar? There is this burial record
BRAY Elizabeth S 59 years Died 11 Oct 1910 Buried at Canbelego Cemetery
There is also a burial record for a John BRAY 30 years who died on 12 Sep 1916 at the Canbelego Cemetery and the age matches the birth in 1886 at Broken Hill.
Any of their children's birth certificates should also give you his age and place of birth.
Cando
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Henry died 1896
HENRY BRAY Ref #6143/1896 his father was WILLIAM BRAY his mother was ELIZABETH and he died at FORBES.
Grace died 1905
GRACE BRAY Ref # 1172/1905 Her fathers first name was GEORGE her mothers was ELLEN and she died FORBES as well.
Neil
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There is this possibility:
6507/1904
BRAY John
Father Henry
Mother Ann
NYMAGEE .
Nymagee is close to both Cobar and Canbelego, all are mining towns/ villages.
Leanne
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A single enlistee's father is usually named as next of kin. It would appear that both parents were deceased at the time of John's enlistment for him to name his sister Effie.
Parental consent would have been required for Effie's marriage as she was born 1884.
4589/1904
MCGUINESS William
BRAY Effie M
District Nymagee
Cando
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There is this possibility:
6507/1904
BRAY John
Father Henry
Mother Ann
NYMAGEE .
Nymagee is close to both Cobar and Canbelego, all are mining towns/ villages.
Leanne
If it is him, I wonder if he died before or after Effie's marriage?
Cando
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John BRAY 53 years died 6 Jun 1904 and is buried in the Nymagee cemetery
Cando
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IF and a BIG if this family is correct that I have posted. Here is Graces family in 1851 Census.
They are all living at
Quethiock
St Germans, Saltash
Cornwall
Parents George Smith b 1790 and His wife Eleanor b 1794
Grace Bray
20 years old
Year of Birth 1831
Relationship to Head of Household Daughter
Occupation Miners Wife
Born Cambourne
in Cornwall
Henry Bray
22 years old
Year of Birth 1829
Relationship to Head of Household Son-In-Law
Occupation Lead Miner
Born Redruth
in Cornwall
Grace had two sisters Jennefer b 1833 and Eliza b 1836 they were all working at the Tin Lead Mine except Graces mother Eleanor.
Neil
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SMH 18 aPR 1949
death Effie May McGuiness 13 North St Marrickville, formerly Canbelego...m/o William and Frederick, s/o George and Henry Bray.
Cremated Rookwood.
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More BIG IF's but here is Henry's mother and siblings at Corwall in 1841 census
Elizabeth Bray b 1788 aged 53 born Cornwall
William brother to Henry b 1817, John 1821, Samuel b1824, Nany 1826, Henry 1828, Richard 1832.
They are living at
Highway at Redruth in Cornwall County
Neil
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Could be simply a coincidence of names but...
1861 Census RG9/1546/92/40
Living at Road to St Austle, St Blazey, Cornwall
BRAY Henry 40 Copper miner Born Cornwall, St Stephens
BRAY Ann 41 Born Cornwall St Blazey
BRAY Henry 17 Copper miner Born Cornwall, St Blazey
BRAY Ann 15 Copper miner-breaker Born Cornwall, St Blazey
BRAY John 9 Scholar Born Cornwall, St Blazey
BRAY Elizabeth 6 Scholar Born Cornwall, St Blazey
BRAY Mary J 3 Born Cornwall, St Blazey
BRAY Richard 1 Born Cornwall, St Blazey
1871 Census RG10/2237/19/79
Living at Common moore, St Cleer, Cornwall
BRAY Henry 51 Miner Born Cornwall, St Stephens
BRAY Ann 53 Born Cornwall St Blazey
BRAY John 19 Miner Born Cornwall, St Blazey
BRAY Elizabeth 17 Work to miner Born Cornwall, St Blazey
BRAY Mary J 13 " Born Cornwall, St Blazey
BRAY Richard 12 " Born Cornwall, St Blazey
Cando
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Henry Bray and Grace Smith married 1851 in St Germains Cornwall Ref #Volume Number 9
Volume Page 127
Cheers Neil
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Problem is........ now we have to find out who got where, when and how????????
Probably by ship Huh?
Neil ::)
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Neil am a bit lost with the info you are posting...if the information on the death certificate is correct, John's parents were Henry and Ann. I can't find a birth in Australia c1851 for a John BRAY with parents Henry and Ann.
There is this possibility:
6507/1904
BRAY John
Father Henry
Mother Ann
NYMAGEE .
Nymagee is close to both Cobar and Canbelego, all are mining towns/ villages.
Leanne
John BRAY 53 years died 6 Jun 1904 and is buried in the Nymagee cemetery
Cando
There are three births in district St Austell which could be his.
According to the census info, this may be John's parents' marriage.
Marriages Dec 1843
BRAY Henry St Austell 9/1
PENHALL Ann St Austell 9/1
Cando
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But do you have the Right JOHN BRAY?
The reason I picked the family I have followed is Henry's Marriage was at Orange and my Henry's Family was at Orange.
No reason in particular if it is not the right one but it COULD BE. Only way to tell is get a Marriage cert, I would think and possibly 1st born here.
MODIFIED>.....OOPs forgot to mention my Henry and Grace are not on the 1861 CensusNeil ???
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A possibility:
1851 Census
Piece: HO107/1906 Place: Fowey -Cornwall Enumeration District: 4e
Civil Parish: St. Blazey Ecclesiastical Parish: -
Folio: 309 Page: 38 Schedule: 128
Address: Church Street
~~~~~~~~
Surname First name(s) Rel Status Sex Age Occupation Where Born
BRAY Henry Head M M 30 Miner Cornwall - St Stephans
BRAY Ann Wife M F 31 Cornwall - St Austle
BRAY Henry Son U M 7 Cornwall - St Austle
BRAY Ann Dau U F 5 Cornwall - St Blazey
BRAY John Son U M 1 Cornwall - St Blazey
Apologies if this has been posted, I am getting a bit lost.
Leanne
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Not completly sure but I think the other John Bray parents Henry and Ann is still in cornwall and married to a Kate in 1881 census. :P
Neil
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Hi
I have just looked at all the pages of the WW1 record, first time I have seen a
photo of the grave in the records. How sad
Muss
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This whole family could be slightly tied together. :o
A MARRIAGE
JOHN BRAY Married an EMMA BRAY at NYMAGEE Ref # 5030/1886
I have not found a birth for my Emma here although it may have been in Cornwall?
Neil ;D
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Not completly sure but I think the other John Bray parents Henry and Ann is still in cornwall and married to a Kate in 1881 census. :P
Neil
1871 Census RG10/2237/19/79
Living at Common moore, St Cleer, Cornwall
BRAY Henry 51 Miner Born Cornwall, St Stephens
BRAY Ann 53 Born Cornwall St Blazey
BRAY John 19 Miner Born Cornwall, St Blazey
BRAY Elizabeth 17 Work to miner Born Cornwall, St Blazey
BRAY Mary J 13 " Born Cornwall, St Blazey
BRAY Richard 12 " Born Cornwall, St Blazey
Cando
1881 Census RG11/2329/78/20
Living at ****, Gwennap, Cornwall
BRAY John 29 Miner Born Cornwall, Gwennap
BRAY Kate 32 Born Cornwall, Chacewater
Yes Muss I agree...so sad to see the photo of the grave. I think the photo may have been returned from the Effie's address at Canbelego. John certainly liked tattoos ;) I found a photo of a grave in one of my distant rellies WW1 service file.
Cheers
Cando
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Both Ellen and Emma Bray born in Corwall.
Neil
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Well Gwennap and Redruth where the other Brays come from are 4 kilometers from one another, the families could be connected distantly.
It could not be the same John from St Blazey thats to blazes away. ;D But is it the same family ???
Neil ;D
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New South Wales Electoral Roll 1903
BRAY Elizabeth Nymagee Domestic duties
BRAY John Nymagee Labourer
They are the only BRAY's enrolled to vote at Nymagee.
Effie's husband to be..
McGUINESS William Nymagee Carrier
Cando
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There's this website which is also trying to untangle the John Bray's in NSW
http://users.cyberone.com.au/nevmoya/bray%20families2-o/p110.htm
In part it says this:
John Bray1
#1577, b. before 1866, d. 1904
John Bray was born before 1866.1 He was the son of Henry Bray and Ann (?).1 John Bray married Emma Bray, daughter of Henry Bray and Grace (?), in 1886 in Nymagee, NSW, Aust.1 John Bray died in 1904 in Nymagee, NSW.1
cheers,
Ros
adding : It is described as a work in progress and to be treated as a guide and suggests everything should be verified. :)
It does give a Bray contact email
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Now i am getting confused..... (tis easy)... cos the the John son of Henry and Ann... JOHN Bray died Nymagee in 1904 while the Son of Henry and Grace John Bray doesn't have a death registered in NSW ???
Who are we looking for :P :-[ :'( :o.......... HELP 8)
Neil ;D
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Neil I think we have established that John BRAY and wife Elizabeth Skinner HENSLEY lived at Nymagee.
Their dau married there in 1904 and John died there and is buried in the cemetery. He was the only John BRAY on the electoral roll in 1903. His death reg shows parents to be Henry and Ann. Census in 1861 and 1871 show a possible John BRAY born St Blazy, Cornwall.
Perhaps we should leave it at that and let the OP decide whether or not she/he wishes to purchase transcripts to support the research to date.
Because John and Elizabeth married at Orange doesn't necessarily indicate that John had family at Orange. The NSW 1903 electoral roll only has three BRAY enrolments at Orange.
Research is speculative until validated.
Cheers ;D
Cando
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Not your request but perhaps you may like this.....
At NSW Records
http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/
Deceased Estates
BRAY John
Locality Canbelgo and AIF
Date of death 12 Sep 1916
Date duty paid 5 Feb 1917
Item [19/10204]
Reel 3027-
It would appear that Elizabeth’s age is not accurate on her headstone which indicates a birth in c1851 however…
http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl
Births Jun qtr 1848
HENSLEY Elizabeth Shinner Penzance 9/213
Baptism - extracted record
HENSLEY Elizabeth Skinner
7 May 1848 At Perranuthnoe, Cornwall, England
Father William Mother Elizabeth
Her 1910 death reg shows parents William and Elizabeth.
1851 Census HO107/ Piece/1918/141/17
Living at Fore Street, Marazion, Cornwall
HENSLEY William 50 Tin ?copper own account Born Camborne, Cornwall
HENSLEY Elizabeth 49 Born Gwennap, Cornwall
HENSLEY William 18 Copper miner Born Perranuthnoe, Cornwall
HENSLEYCharles 14 Copper miner Born Gwennap, Cornwall
HENSLEY George 10 Scholar Born Marazion, Cornwall
HENSLEY Thomas 8 Scholar Born Marazion, Cornwall
HENSLEY Mary 6 Scholar Born Marazion, Cornwall
HENSLEY Joseph 4 Born Marazion, Cornwall
HENSLEY Elizabeth 2 Born Marazion, Cornwall
RICHARD Johanna 27 House servant Born Marazion, Cornwall
Banns -
Parish Gwennap 1828
HENSLEY William Residence Camborn Bachelor
SKINNER? Elizabeth Of this parish Spinster
1 12 Oct
2 19 Oct
3 26 Oct
Cando
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There's this website which is also trying to untangle the John Bray's in NSW
http://users.cyberone.com.au/nevmoya/bray%20families2-o/p110.htm
In part it says this:
John Bray1
#1577, b. before 1866, d. 1904
John Bray was born before 1866.1 He was the son of Henry Bray and Ann (?).1 John Bray married Emma Bray, daughter of Henry Bray and Grace (?), in 1886 in Nymagee, NSW, Aust.1 John Bray died in 1904 in Nymagee, NSW.1
cheers,
Ros
adding : It is described as a work in progress and to be treated as a guide and suggests everything should be verified. :)
It does give a Bray contact email
Also mentions John BRAY and Elizabeth S HENSLEY.
Has the author assumed that as a John BRAY married at Nymagee that he also died there?
I suggest you purchase a couple of transcriptions and then you will have accurate research.
Cheers
Cando
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I can only see one John BRAY/Emma marriage in NSW
5030/1886
BRAY John
BRAY Emma
District Nymagee
Births to a John BRAY and an Emma at FORBES
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0q8r/
New South Wales Electoral Roll
Sub district Forbes
BRAY Emma Wonjagong Domestic duties
BRAY Grace Wonjagong Domestic duties
BRAY John Wongergong Miner
BRAY Ruth Wonjagong Domestic duties
BRAY William Wonjagong Miner
Both Emma and John died in the district of Forbes. John with father Abel and from the census, mother Christiana.
Further research [I had posted it all including census etc but the post stalled and disappeared :'(] it would appear that John was born 1857 in St Columb, Cornwall.
I'm not going to type it up again as I think it is irrelevant to this thread.
Cando
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Well-found Muss :)
Marriage notice doesn't mention family
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article13544805
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article13545471
regards,
Ros
Thanks for your assistance, I have the news paper report,
Pompet
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Thanks Leane, I am looking into the latest information.
I'm sorry for the delay, but it is the first time I have used roots chat, & still learning.
Pompet
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Hi
WW1 record for his son JOHN who was killed in action, lists his sister Effie McGuiness as next of kin, as both parents are deceased by 1916.
Record can be found at this link
http://www.naa.gov.au/collection/using/search/
Muss
Thanks Muss,
I have all the ww1 records.
Cheers Pompet
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Thanks Cando,
Very interesting, I'm working on it.
Pompet
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Thanks Neil, I have my doubts , I can't get any connection with GRACE. There is not connection of a Grace in the tree sofar.
Thanks anyway
Pompet
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Problem is........ now we have to find out who got where, when and how????????
Probably by ship Huh?
Neil e]
Thanks Neil, I would agree with you, got any clues
Pompet
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Thanks Cando,
Very interesting, I'm working on it.
Pompet
I only listed the information in Reply#34 to show there were not your family at FORBES.
Cando
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Hi all
I am the person who has the web site mentioned by Rosball. Sorry its taken me a while to answer but have been busy and only just joined rootschat. I am attempting a One Name Study of Brays in Australia and I hope to have it as accurate as possible.
First let me say I am totally blown away by how much effort you put into helping people and through the information you all have supplied I have been able to fix a problem I had on my web site. I had a look at my data and the great amount you all have added.
To add my two cents worth. Cando and Neil you are discussing two quite seperate families.
The one requested by Pompet (John Bray and Elizabeth Hensley):--
We know they had a daughter Effie May who married a Mcguiness and a son John who was killed in WW1 (and 2 other sons). We know from Johns enlistment that both parents were dead. We know from Elizabeth's headstone (thanks for that didn't have it) that she died in 1910. The death of John Bray in Nymagee in 1904 is virtually certain to be him (that was the mistake I had, I had this death in the wrong family) as Effie married in Nymagee in 1904. This gives the parents of this John to be Henry and Ann and thus all the Census etc info found in Cornwall by Cando would be correct.
The other family discussed by Neil:-
His information all makes sense and I think is all correct. The john that is a son of Henry Bray and Grace is NOT the one who married Elizabeth hensley. By coincidence Henry and Grace also had a daughter Emma who married a John Bray agin not the John Bray who married Elizabeth.. All Henry and Graces family were mostly in the Forbes area. The John Bray who married Emma Bray (Henry and Graces daughter), the only suitable death for him is 1921 in Forbes, father Abel.
I think this is certain to be him because John and Emma had a son they called Abel and that is such a rare name that I now only have two of them in my database. This would make all the Census info found by Neil for this family would be right and thanks for that.
Thanks again for all your efforts.
Brayfam
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Hi Again
I have put this in a seperate post as I would like to know what you think. As I am doing a One Name Study obviously I am not going to buy certificates for all my people (I currently have over 12000 in my database). This means that there WILL be a small (hopefully very small) amount of errors in my data and I have put a warning to this effect on my site.
This brings me to my question. There are always many adverse comments made about incorrect information on the internet. However I have decided to put my database out there to help people find their families as I am doing all transcriptions in BDMs etc and I often find things a normal researcher wouldnt look for. It also will save many people a lot of work. I also act as a connection point and put people in touch with others researching the same family.
But do you feel that this is the wrong thing to do because of the slight risk of errors and that I should take it down. I do not advertise my study at all as I do not have the time for many enquiries, currently I average about 2 a week who find me just by googleing their name.
I would value your honest opinion.
PS if any one is looking fro Brays tell them to just google Bray Families and they will find my site.
Brayfam
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Thanks for your interest Brayfam,
I an the one interested in the Bray/Hensley family. Yes I was aware of the other Bray family. Effie Bray was my Grandmother and was having trouble getting any more information further on John Bray, but thanks to RootsChat it is giving me lots of help.
Thanks for your interest
Pompet