RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland Resources => Topic started by: Christopher on Saturday 10 May 08 05:34 BST (UK)
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The Irish Family History Foundation (IFHF) is the co-ordinating body for a network of government approved genealogical research centres which are located in the Republic
of Ireland and Northern Ireland. These centres use a database containing almost forty
million Irish Ancestral records ... primarily Church baptisms, marriages and deaths.
https://www.rootsireland.ie/ifhf/index.php?&set=yes (https://www.rootsireland.ie/ifhf/index.php?&set=yes)
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Wow! :o :D
Thanks very much indeed, Christopher, for that link - I'm on the trail of a couple of very elusive families and now have some hot leads to follow thanks to you!
Cheers
Prue :)
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A potentially excellent site. I've registered and put it in my favourites.
Be nice if I could find some of my Irish rellies on there :-\.
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Well, I've had a quick look and found that the names of both of a couple that I've been trying to find are listed as marrying in Mayo in 1851.
Does anyone know if I can find out if they married each other before paying for the record and, if so, if the record will give any further details?
I'd like to know what sort of information would be expected for a marriage record in 1851 from a catholic church. Also, will this site at least tell me which church it was?
Also, if anyone has any experience of baptism records from that period, what would they be likely to include?
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Dudley, if you have a look at the home page, there is a tab along the top that you can click to look at examples of all the different kinds of database entries:
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Thanks Prue,
I didn't spot that. That answers most of my questions.
Sheila
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Just a transcription and not much detail but I think a major brickwall has just fallen.
Found the marriage details for my great-grandparents in Mayo, in 1851, so I now have a parish to visit.
Sheila
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A (hopeful) word about getting negative results back from the IFHF Online:
When Cavan finally came online and I searched for my great-grandfather's baptismal record (a firm date, just lacked the parish), my result was "0" -- no one of that name baptized in Cavan within 7 years of the correct date. I persevered, went to the National Library, and found him almost immediately, baptized the precise month & year I had expected.
What went wrong? I still don't know. But the reigning philosophy of these boards -- to keep trying, keep hoping -- still holds true even with easy access to online records.
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What went wrong ??? That's easy to explain ...
A fair number of the transcriptions were done by youngsters on a FÁS Scheme who didn't know the first thing about genealogy or transcribing data. www.fas.ie/en I can't recall the name of the equivalent scheme in the UK but think it was dropped in favour of something called New Deal. Go for the RootsChat KTKH Philosophical Scheme. It tends to work if you have the patience.
Christopher
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Am I missing something I tried to find my ancesters in Bellaghy but there doesn't appear to be a search for Derry or londonderry records please what am I doing wrong?
Trees
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Am I missing something I tried to find my ancesters in Bellaghy but there doesn't appear to be a search for Derry or londonderry records please what am I doing wrong?
Trees
Hello Trees,
You're doing nothing wrong. The IFHF people aren't too well organised. If you click on Derry on the Map of Centres and Counties Currently Online you get a message saying
"Not yet online." http://ifhf.brsgenealogy.com/map.php broken link
Counties coloured ....
Green are already online
Red are not yet online
Salmon will be online soon
Christopher
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Thanks Christopher any idea when Derry will be covered?
Trees
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Thanks Christopher any idea when Derry will be covered?
Trees
Hi Trees,
I'm not certain.
They've twelve counties that are not online at the moment.
Donegal and Wicklow will be the next to come online.
Christopher
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Thanks again Christopher I'm desperate to get a handle on Henry McMullin but we've only been after him for 22 years so an extra short wait won't hurt too much ;D
Trees
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In Northern Ireland it was unemployed people under ACE scheme that put church records into computer system at Derry Genealogy Centre (now closed with no date given for re-opening). You can still search their index at http://www.irishgenealogy.ie/frame_1024.cfm but there are lots of mistakes in spelling with many entries duplicated strangely!
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Many thanks aghadowey at least its a straw to clutch
trees
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Trees- if you send me a pm with any details that you have or what you are looking for in Bellaghy area I'll have a look and see if anything looks promising.
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Many many thanks PM on its way
Trees
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Thanks, Christopher, for the enlightening information on the transcribers. I plan on being grateful when a solid lead materializes online, and undaunted when nothing turns up.
charismayo
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Part 1 of a 2 part video series. Lisa Louise Cooke, host of The Genealogy Gems Podcast
at http://www.GenealogyGems.TV interviews Feargal O'Donnell of the new website Roots Ireland http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6S484Me2MX8&feature=user
Part 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NekbUfhZlY&feature=user
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In Northern Ireland it was unemployed people under ACE scheme that put church records into computer system at Derry Genealogy Centre (now closed with no date given for re-opening). You can still search their index at http://www.irishgenealogy.ie/frame_1024.cfm but there are lots of mistakes in spelling with many entries duplicated strangely!
I have one of the duplicated entries on the index of the Derry site above. (purchased some time ago, long before they ceased trading). Now, I only sent for one of the records, but Brian Mitchell sent me the details from the Civil registration record and ALSO the Catholic Parish entry. I wonder if this would explain the duplication in the index? i.e. one entry in index is Civil and the other Parish. Can't say for sure, but it looks likely.
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Have seen the sort of duplications you mean and agree that they could be entries taken from 2 sources (church record and civil records).
However, the entries I'm referring to are duplicate burial records. A friend rang me a year or so ago to ask where in Aghadowey Parish a certain man would have been buried. The name was quite distinctive and I couldn't find a trace of him anywhere in Aghadowey. Even stranger she said he lived in Portstewart area so I entered the name into the database and the Aghadowey parish listing came up as did one for Agherton parish (same name and same year). Then checked under the surname and each and every entry was found with same dates in same place. Thinking the problem was just with this one batch of records I searched a bit more and discovered the problem was more widespread.
Note: this reply refers to Derry Genealogical Centre database
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In 2001 Dr Sean Farren, the Northern Ireland Minister of Higher and Further education stated that almost a quarter of adults in the north of Ireland had problems reading or writing. What percentage of the people on the ACE and FÁS schemes that did the transcribing of records had such problems? Were they all well educated people with a high level of reading and writing? Would the percentage of errors being spotted in data bases be as high as twenty five percent?
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I suspect that some of the problems had little to do with literacy and more to do with no local knowledge a townland names and unfamiliarity with reading old records.
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Definitely not a task for ACE and FÁS people ... It would have been better if graduates and undergraduates with a knowledge in such subjects had been used for such a task. People researching their trees are charged high prices for looking at data bases that
were compiled by cheap labour. Who are the IFHF using these days?
In 2005 the IFHF weren't too happy with IGL. http://tinyurl.com/3vaun4 broken link
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Dear Christopher and Aghadowey,
Many thanks to you two "leprechauns" once again. Much more now to search for next Spring when I go back home to my beloved Tipperary!!
Bill
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;D Well at least the elusive Kernahan surname showed up on this site - the very first glimmer of hope I have had so far to her :-\
Thanks
Crystal :D
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Hi looks like a potentilly brilliant website though maybe they should have got some more experienced people to load on the information! :o
I seem to have been very unlucky indeed! All my family come from waterford , Kilkenny , Laois and Offaly. I live in England and as you know three of those counties are not loaded on yet. :'(
The one that is , Kilkenny couldn't help me as the person I was looking for was born in 1833 and their babtism records don't start until 1835! :'( :'(
I am so frustrated >:(
Any idea when these counties will be online???
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According to an email from the IFHF I received in Dec 2009, they are currently working on records for Laois, Offaly and Wexford and hope to have these online this year.
no mention of Waterford at the moment unfortunately
Shane
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great thanks thats brilliant news ;D
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I'm afraid that this site fills me with a great deal of bitterness and disappointment. Records of my ancestors are there but the site is too expensive to use! They charge E5 for every record you want to look at and make it as difficult as they can for users to obtain any useful information from it without paying.
It's not rocket science to make it possible to search by both parent's names for example. My numerous Irish ancestors crossed over to mainland Britain over 100 years ago and settled in Scotland. As anyone who has researched in Scotland knows a lot of information can be obtained for their civil records. I know the names of Irish couples who are my ancestors but the folks at rootsireland (despite making great play of the fact that they are apparently a not-for-profit organisation), seem to be too afraid of losing revenue to make it easy for me to find them!
I'm not a millionaire, and frankly, to do genealogy properly on the rootsireland website you have to be very comfortably well off indeed!
I have e-mailed them to protest about their extortion and have asked them to provide a subscription service. It hasn't hurt Ancestry's revenues so it surely won't hurt theirs!
I call on all persons with an interest in Irish genealogy to do the same!
John
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In all fairness, many baptismal registers only list the father's name (if the mother is listed it may only be her Christian name that's in the record).
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Well I would beg to differ on that score!
If you have checked out the free 'Irish Genealogy' website which covers mostly parts of Dublin, Kerry and parts of southern Cork, a quick examination of the baptismal records reveals that they often contain a wealth of information including both parents forenames, the mother's maiden surname and the names of both Godparents! All potentially useful information.
The option to search using even a mother's first name would in any event be far better than the present situation with IFHF which does not allow any more than a search for father's name for a family and then only for a countywide search. If you try to search by parish they move the goalposts again requiring a first name for a particular individual.
The central problem with the pay-per-view system is that it necessitates restricting the sorts of ways in which the information contained in a database can be accessed.
Computers and the internet have shown on many occasions that there exists a enormous potential to search in a variety of ingenious ways, and in ways that would not be possible without them, and this in turn makes discovering ancestors possible when it would not have been possible before.
Please support my call to press the IFHF to change their current backwards looking policy and offer a subscription service which could open up Irish genealogy!
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If you have checked out the free 'Irish Genealogy' website which covers mostly parts of Dublin, Kerry and parts of southern Cork, a quick examination of the baptismal records reveals that they often contain a wealth of information including both parents forenames, the mother's maiden surname and the names of both Godparents! All potentially useful information.
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In general Catholic baptism records include mother's maiden name, whereas Church of Ireland baptism records do not. Church of Ireland baptism records often include father's occupation, and Catholic baptisms dont. Church of Ireland baptisms often dont include godparents/sponsors.
Earlier records tend to include less detail.
Shane
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Early Presbyterian baptisms, in general, may only include father's name and possible a townland. At a later period many registers changed from father's name/townland to father's name and mother's name (Christian and last or just Christian name). Baptisms in the Presbyterian church are performed without any godparents.
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Thank you Aghadowey, that may well be so, but the majority of people in Ireland are, and were Roman Catholic, and the baptismal records that the Roman Catholic church kept are as detailed as I have described, and do include both parents names, the mother's maiden surname and the names of Godparents.
I have researched in a number of Roman Catholic parishes, including ones in the northern counties and this has always been my experience.
The provision of a subscription service by the IFHF would be, in my view of benefit to all those interested in the research of Irish people and of all denominations, and for the reasons I have outlined in my previous message.
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I thought it might be of interest to those using the IFHF as I received an email which states that advanced search is now available on all ireland searches as opposed to just the county searches.
Only problem is you then have to pay to view the result! although they do give you a reduced cost. I have tried it on families that I have previously located and it does work. Whether a mixture of standard and advanced can give you names without paying too much I do not know.
regards sarenid
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The advanced search doesn't work for counties Limerick and Sligo, and also bear in mind that the search by mothers maiden name will not work for most Church of Ireland baptisms - since the maiden name is not recorded on most of these.
see : Roots Ireland Advanced Search (http://www.rootsireland.ie/index.php?id=advancedsearch)
Shane
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Found this site to be a money spinner! >:(
Got charged for 3 records for the same person but each with minor discrepancies.
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Munch
this happened to me once and I emailed IFHF to point this out and they promptly refunded me for the duplicate so I suggest you email them.
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Tried to email them but kept saying something wrong with email address. What email address did you use?
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I have spent and embarassing amount of money on the IFHF site but have found ways to extract information without paying. For example, you can search the main database with surname, county and father's name. That gives you a list of christian names and years, which can then be searched by parish on the County advanced database to get parish. Then, you can add in mothers' names. That then narrows it right down before buying a record.
Remember also that a lot of parish registers are on LDS microfilm and can be ordered for just $9 through their excellent service and viewed anywhere around the world.
John
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I too have spent more than my fair share on the IFHF site but I thought I would share what I found out today whilst browsing around to see if I could find any more of my MILs family and low and behold I discovered something new.
I was looking for the name Payne in Duleek, not common in the area so put in the surname only, Co Meath Baptisms 1881 +/-10years with parents names. It came back with 10 results! which was one more than I thought... but the good news is they said I could view all 10 for 20€ instead of the usual 5€ per view.
I haven't taken them up on the offer yet as I already had 9 and with a bit of tweaking of years and a guess at the name found the missing son who died in infancy, the civil birth registers confirmed my find.
Jenny
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Am just trying to start research in Ireland on my husbands side but when I click on the first link I am told that the site is not safe to use.
C an anyone give me a good link for Irush research pre 1800 in Count Down,I am at the moment going through the useful resources page on roots chat.
Thanks
Ringrose
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Am just trying to start research in Ireland on my husbands side but when I click on the first link I am told that the site is not safe to use.
C an anyone give me a good link for Irush research pre 1800 in Count Down,I am at the moment going through the useful resources page on roots chat.
Thanks
Ringrose
To search for records this early you would need to know which denomination your ancestors were, and also which parish, town or townland they lived, so you can check if there are any records available pre-1800.
Shane
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Thanks.I only have a name on the 1841 census in Yorkshire with his wife who he married at an Anglicn church in Yorkshire.I've looked on IGI the new site but nothing there so it looks as if I'm STUCK.
Never mind
Ringrose
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I sent and paid for 12 records last night at a quote of 30 euros. I'd been thinking about this for the last month so was very dissapointed to only be allowed access to 6. I sent an e-mail off which was answered this morning by Donegal Anc. stating that all records were 5 euros each, though she had passed my Letter to IFHF (to which I'd thought I'd sent original e-mail, but never mind.) Now I had copy and pasted the ''12 records for 30 euros'' in my e-mail, BUT whether she saw it or not -don't know.
Have replied again using the results for a different name (whole page copied and pasted this time) and inviting her to try the search herself.
I'll let you know what happens.. Normally I buy one record at a time, about once a month , so this was a big decision for me and a large hole in my genealogy budget. I actually thought it would be worth it. Time will tell.
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Now ancestry have released quite a few Irish records online, I would check them before paying the rediculously high charges of IFHF.
Also do it soon as I understand there is rumblings that the NLI are not happy about it!
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Thank you. I have a feeling the Anc. Irish records (from past searches) are of no use to me. I will look again though :)
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Well. I have to admit, the newly released records on Ancestry were limited for me too but I found a few more. Most of mine are CoI not RC but the ones that are, are Kellys from anywhere ::)
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Hi again, I had a quick look on the Anc.Irish records and as far as I can see there are no records for Hargan at all. I tried Peoples- and there were 4. (nothing jumping out at me though.)
I too, know the joys of searching the Kelly surname, and will look at Anc. in a while for any of those. Mine were last (or first) heard of in Co.Tyrone.
Still no word from IFHF.
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Hi
Sorry, I have not read the whole tread but I noticed you mentioned the Ancestry Irish Collection - from reading the newsletter the other day (and scrolling right to the bottom of the article) they mentioned the following information:
Counties with representation in these three collections include: Antrim, Cavan, Cork, Fermanagh, Galway (marriages only), Kerry, Kildare, Laois, Louth, Mayo, Meath, Offaly, Roscommon, Sligo, Tipperary (marriages only), Tyrone, Westmeath, and Wexford.
Perhaps this may help?
Regards
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Thank you :)
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Rats I got interested then I want records for Bellaghy, Co. Londonderry, any ideas how I can find them
From military records i know Henry McMullin was born 4 Feb 1824 in Bellaghy son of James a shoe maker
Please help if you can
Trees
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I want records for Bellaghy, Co. Londonderry, any ideas how I can find them
From military records i know Henry McMullin was born 4 Feb 1824 in Bellaghy son of James a shoe maker
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what denomination ?
Shane
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Rats I got interested then I want records for Bellaghy, Co. Londonderry, any ideas how I can find them
From military records i know Henry McMullin was born 4 Feb 1824 in Bellaghy son of James a shoe maker
Please help if you can
Trees
Separate thread already on LONDONDERRY board-
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,526257.0.html
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True Aghadowey but I am still well and truely stuck just hope some of our new pals may know of any recent developements
Sorry I've no idea on his denomination but he married in the Church of Scotland and his Grand children were all baptised Anglicans so I am guessing protestant
One day I am sure we'll find him He has a great service record which includes a ship wreck and a court martial
Trees
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Sent another letter, and this time was sent a ''ticket no.'' for complaints, and apparently I can track my complaint. -sheesh.
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Apparently it's now being attended to.. this time the e-mail was slightly more personal and said that Donegal Anc. had forwarded complaint....
Sorry to bore you all with this, but it might stop someone else having same problem until the issue is resolved, at which point I will post on board.
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I havn't heard of the problem you had with the bulk purchase on RootsIreland, but do know that there are duplicated records for some areas. Often these are the same event where one is a civil record, the second a parish record.
There are some records that have been transcribed twice from the same source. If you come across these let the IFHF, or the relevant county centre know and they will refund you the fee.
You can reduce the possibility of purchasing of these 'duplicate' records by selecting a source (i.e. a parish or registration district) before carrying out a basic or advanced search.
Shane
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Thank you Shane, I've been after this line(s) for donkeys years... The ones I selected to order are births 1820-1860.
The 6, I got access to, and the 2 previously bought I've not seen elsewhere, though the next 6 may have one or 2, I already have, from Lindels site.
I fiddled about with all manner of search criteria before deciding on the one above.
I have got most relevant ones post 1860 (from Lindels site and Letterkenny reg.office). It's really just trying all avenues, before I decide that's all there is! I also got an army record from FindMyPast.
I thought at the reduced price it was worth a shot.
*******
14 matches for the search criteria: hargan (plus variants) 1820-1860
The cost to view the full details of the 12 records that you have not yet viewed is €30.00
*******
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The advanced search used for bulk purchases works best for an individual family - i.e. where you have both parents names (note : many CofI records dont include mother's maiden name).
Quite a few parishes dont have records back to the 1830s or 20s - so narrowing down the parish first from your initial clues is a good way to start your search and save money, rather than searching all of a particular county.
Shane
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It was advanced search I used Shane, and the Irish times site has been on my list for many years.. It is so handy. :) I left my search quite wide, for a few reasons. A couple or 3/4 parishes may be involved, but mainly because it's an uncommon name and I suspect they are all related.. All I need is one link for the older generations. Using G.V. , Tithes , 1901 census etc. Including BMD's and Scottish records (wonderful). Also an odd birth and marriage in Derry. The Irishgraveyards site was helpful too. It is very slowly coming together.
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Another e-mail sent to IFHF asking them for an update, or at least telling me what the problem is....
If anyone has a tel.no. for the main IFHF I would appreciate it. Not the individual counties as they say it has been passed on etc....the Donegal lady who e-mailed me the first time said that she cannot access records etc.
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The saga has now ended, with a lovely letter (albeit telling me it was partly my fault), so fair's fair, a satisfactory ending.
''I’m very sorry for the delay getting back to you.
I’ve given you access to all 14 records which you should be able to view when you login to your account. Please let me know if you have any problems.
Your email instigated a complete review of the software to ensure there were no problems with the advanced search functionality, this took some time to complete. I’m please to tell you that this issue you encountered was not a glitch in the software. When you came back into the system after purchasing your 30 Euros of credit you probably didn’t realise that you then had to click on the button to purchase the “Record Set” again. You started viewing the records individually and hence after viewing 6 records your credit ran out.
We apologise for the confusion. We are going to review this part of the system with a view to simplifying the process.''
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Good to hear that it's been sorted out.
Shane
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Note to self- read ALL instructions in future ::)
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I would like to add my comments on IFHF. I think this site is too restrictive in their searches. I have done some searches without paying with advance search, but I refuse to pay the prices that they are charging as the records that are available to me could cost a lot of money.
I have found that children and adults may have called themselves john, mary, anne etc and they have not been christened with these names. ie. patrick john thomas- known as thomas, and to add to this that their ages on census are totally not the right age and the same goes for marriages.
Regards
Genseacher
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Latest email I had from IFHF regarding the credit system.
Credit System
www.rootsireland.ie has introduced a credits system with various bulk buy options that give users a chance to view the detail of a record for as little as 2.00 EURO per record (based on purchasing 750 credits at 60.00 EURO). Please see below for the current purchase options.
Every user can view 10 pages of Search Results for FREE on registration. Any user that registered before March 22nd 2012 will also be able to view 10 pages of search results at no charge. If a user wishes to view the details of any record returned as part of these ten free pages of search results they will need to purchase credits to do so (subject to our terms and conditions).
Users will need to purchase credits to view additional pages of search results when they have used the 10 free pages of results or to view the details of any record.
If you have previously paid to view the details of a record you will still be able access it for 24 months from the date of purchase.
Our site currently provides access to over 19 million Irish genealogical records. Users can search an individual centre/county's records or perform a search across all centres' data. Please see Our Interactive Map of Genealogy Centres around Ireland to see what county genealogy centres have data available and their Online Sources. Many more records will be added in the coming weeks.
The current purchase options are as follows:
To view the results of any single search up to a maximum of 10 results per page will cost 1 credit.
Any single record will cost 25 Credits . By bulk buying credits you can avail of significant savings. Please see the bulk purchase options listed below.
Amount to purchase:
€5.00 - (35 Credits)
€10.00 - (73 Credits) - Bulk Saving
€18.00 - (150 Credits) - Bulk Saving
€32.00 - (320 Credits) - Bulk Saving
€60.00 - (750 Credits) - Bulk Saving
Therefore, to view one page of search results will cost 00.10 cent (EURO), and to view 10 pages of search results will cost 1.00 EURO.
A user can enter any information they know in the available search fields, e.g. Child's first name, surname, father's first name, surname, mother's first name, surname, year and county. The more specific the search the fewer results that will be returned. By searching in a particular county's dataset you can refine your search by parish/denomination. Users must check what Online Sources are available and understand that these records are not uniform and that their contents can vary. Please refer to Sample Records for further information.
You may change your registered email or password under the 'My Account' option of the website. If you have forgotten your password click on 'Reset Password' at the login page.
Credit vouchers are valid for 12 months from the time of purchase. The IFHF/www.rootsireland.ie will not be held responsible for any errors or omissions in the products and/or services it sells. While IFHF will seek to redress matters of grievance, refunds will be granted at the sole discretion of IFHF management. Credit vouchers can be purchased and spent on any part of the www.rootsireland.ie website.
We hope that you find the information that you are interested in on our site. If you have any questions please check our Help Pages and if this does not provide an answer, then do not hesitate to contact us. You can also contact any of the individual county genealogy centres with your family history query and to commission professional research.
Regards
Sean
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Hello
In 2009 I made great inroads into a branch of my family tree, due to the wonderful site of IFHF. I was able to view all the pages free, and could pay 5 euros to view the certificate details, when I had searched them all.
In one instance I found a record recorded as 1812, when in fact it was mistranscribed and was actually 1882. Had I not been able to flip through all the records for that name I would never have found it.
Now I feel that it is very mean to only be able to view a few pages free. It has stopped my research, I cannot afford to go any further.
At the time when I was able to see all the pages, I in fact spent quite a bit more money on the site, as I saw more possibilities and was more inclined to take a gamble and buy the record. But I won't pay to just see the pages, so they have lost me as a customer.
Does anyone else feel like this?
I think it is an unfortunate and greedy change, and not in the spirit of helping family research. Especially as they have these records on line already, and it entails no extra work now to show them.
Rant over :)
Lucy
Moderator Note: post merged with existing topic
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At the time when I was able to see all the pages, I in fact spent quite a bit more money on the site, as I saw more possibilities and was more inclined to take a gamble and buy the record. But I won't pay to just see the pages, so they have lost me as a customer.
That's my view as well. It's a short-sighted move. The smart thing is to entice you with the lure of records that definitely look interesting. Like you, I spent quite a lot on that basis, but much less so now.
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I AM ALSO SPENDING LESS ON THE SITE AS WELL.
JOHN.
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I think they have based their strategy on the Scotlands People site, but that site is far better value - a third of the cost to view records compared to IFHF and also access to the original register. I haven't spent anything on IFHF for some months now and have just given up on them. If they halved the cost of viewing records, it would make more sense (i.e. about 1.5 Euro) which would bring them in line with Scotland.
The other thing I have noticed on that site is the mistakes, which you never find from the scottish site. I did a search of a couple of records from Co Laois which said there were no mother on the baptism records. But, when I reviewed the register there was the mother's full name AND an abode - I felt particulalry ripped off.
John
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(ifhf) in early 2011 you did not need credit to search the inexes,
you only needed pay credit to down load & print of a cert.
the credit system has changed again.
in the past credit 60 euro & 750 free credit,
now the credit is 50 euro & 450 free credit.
john.