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Research in Other Countries => Canada => Topic started by: jackie0051 on Wednesday 22 August 12 09:27 BST (UK)
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Trying to find War brides passage to Canada.
Marriage 1943 Staines Middlesex UK.
Irene Doris Batchelor married Canadian soldier R. M. Gough serving in England during WW11.
I have found her and infant son (Melvyn Richard Gough) returning to England passage Jan 1947. All contact with Canadian family then lost.
I've looked on Ancestry.com and also Find my Past but nothing shows up.
Nothing is known of R. M. Gough other than family may have had some connections to Browns Shipping.
During a lady named Edith Kozbal someway connected to the Canadian Gough family arrived at young Melvyn's homes saying that his Canadian family wanted to make contact. Unfortunately Melvyn didn't want anything to do with the family and never took contact details.
Irene and Melvyn are no longer alive but the descendants would like to make contact with the Canadian side of the family.
Can anyone offer advice.
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Irene was only born 1927 so was only 16 when she married Richard Gough. Was Melvyn born in Canada?
Do you have a copy of the marriage cert showing Richards age and his fathers name and occupation?
Did Irene ever divorce Richard?
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I have managed to find a little more info since posting and I should have some more info in the next week or so.
Young Melvyn Richard Gough....at the moment appears to be born in England Dec 1943, Irene was heavily pregnant.
As a teenager Melvyn changed his name to Baker (his mother's 2 nd husbands name) Later he changed back to Gough and also Baker.
Melvin's father, R. M. Gough was Canadian and I now know his name was R. M.Gough . He was a gunner stationed in the UK with the Canadian Royal Artillery and later with the Merchant Navy, at this stage no idea of his age or parentage.
Earlier today, I found on Ancestry.com R. M. Gough returning to UK March 1947 sailing with Ministry of Transport as merchant seaman a Car Inspector. R. M. was to stay at the same address his wife gave on her return Jan 1947. So it does seems as though there was some contact after Irene and Melvyn returned from Canada.
Many thanks Jackie.
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Hi
There is no birth in England for Melvyn in 1943/44 - he was aged 3 on the passenger list
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R M Gough was born 1921 according to his arrival in Canada 1948 ( basic info only available before signing on for $)
http://www.findmypast.co.uk/passengerListPersonSearchStart.action
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Hello Jacquie,
Went onto A*****try and this is what I have found for you.
Irene Doris Batchelor born 20 July 1927 Hammersmith,London Eng
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Date of death June 1973 St Pancras,London Eng.In 1952 family knowledge lived at Chatsworth Road, Brondesbury,Lonon until 1965 and then to Rosedale
Drive,Kingsbury, Middlesex. Occupation Central Middlesex Hospital,London. Hospital receptionist
Married Richard Maltby Gough Staines,Middlesex July/Aug/Sept 1943
Looks like she remarried haven't looked up a marriage for her. Her son Melvyn Richard Gough Baker born Dec. 1944 Eng
Mellvyn married Brenda M Gosing Mar. 1965 Bromley,Kent
Second marriage Sept 1979 Dacorum, Hertfordshire name unknown.
Have not checked to see if he had any children from either marriage
Melvyn died 2009 Eng age 65.
Have found no death for Richard M Gough or any other informatio
If you have a GenesReunited membership there is a passenger record for Richard Maltby Gough. departing 14 June 1948
record indicates he was a clerk. I was not able to see the original something wrong with site.
Hope this is some help to you. You can check BMD records on RootswebFree BMD for records in Eng
Lilybell.
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Many thanks for all info.
I hadn't been able to find anything on Find my Past so I'm really pleased and will follow up.
I have put the tree up on Ancestry containing all the info I have, I appear to be the only researcher looking for R. M. Gough. I have seen several passages for R. Gough but at this stage cannot be sure it's the correct Ri. M. Gough but know for certain the 1947 passage to England was his because it's the address Irene gave on her passage.
Hoping to get the wedding cert within a week and as he married whilst he was in the Army, I'm hoping it will give his Service number.
Still can't find Irene Doris's original passage to Canada as a War Bride, anxious to find that as it would give the address she was going to. Hoping that it was R. M. parents which would be really helpful to find out more of the family.
Many, many thanks for everyones help.
Regards Jackie..
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http://www.archive.org/stream/prominentpeopleo00stjouoft/prominentpeopleo00stjouoft_djvu.txt
When you open this link use the Control F feature to open a search box and enter R.M. Gough
The information is about Charles Henry Gough who married Mary Maltby in 1917 and had two children - one of which was a R. M. Gough
Debbie
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Debbie what a great find! I looked and looked for a Maltby/Gough connection ... :D
she was Orr from a previous marriage!! ( and may have remarried in France?)
Mary Ethel Keynes Maltby, born on 13 Nov. 1882 in Newcastle, baptized on 3 Dec. 1882 in St. Andrew’s Church, married Harry Daniel Orr, of Old Town, ME, son of A.L. and E.C. Orr, ...more on page...She graduated in nursing from Montreal General Hospital in 1914, joined the Royal Canadian Army Medical Corps, and went to France in April 1915, working among the wounded soldiers in World War I. She married Charles Henry Gough, an officer, in France, after 1916, but before 1918. He was apparently from Tavernsham, England.
They returned to Newcastle after the war, where he probably died. She lived to be very old, and died in the Miramichi Senior Citizens Home in Chatham, NB, on 31 Jan. 1971 She had 2 children by Charles Henry Gough
http://home.earthlink.net/~jamaltby1/maltby_newbrunswick_1.html
Her sign up http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/databases/cef/001042-119.01-e.php?&id_nbr=544637
In 1901...hit links to see 1911 http://automatedgenealogy.com/census/ViewFrame.jsp?id=102&highlight=33
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Just for info, Melvyn's name is misspelled in the GRO index (I checked the image at Ancestry): GAUGH.
You could add a correction/note to the index at Ancestry (you can include his full middle name and correct surname in the entry, and add notes to give other info), so that anyone else who searches for his birth can find it. When I do that, I include a permanent anonymous online email address in the form
nickname at gmail dot com
so that messages will always reach me. I have had several very useful contacts with distant unknown family members via corrections/notes added to censuses and other records there.
FreeBMD doesn't seem to have transcribed the birth yet but when it does, it will have the incorrect spelling, of course. You can't correct records there if the information is accurately transcribed from the GRO index, but you can add postems -- you could do that on any record, including RMG's birth, etc. Since there is no PM system there, you need to include an email address if you want to be reachable.
Not everybody bothers with trees at Ancestry - it's good to make one's self visible right on the records themselves. ;)
There is no entry on line at Last Post (Canadian Legion, veterans' death notices that come to their attention) for RM Gough.
EDITED to remove full name of father of Melvyn since later posts show that there is a possibility he is living -- I trust that all others in this thread (including the author of the OP) will do the same!
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I'm absolutely gobsmacked!! Wow, how did you all do so much, it's unbelievable, I can't thank you enough.
It was only the other day my friend asked me to see if I could find anything about her Canadian family history, and what an amazing family it's turned out to be.
My friend is the daughter of the late Melvyn Richard Gough, she's is going to be over the moon, I can't wait to tell her.
Thank you all so much Jackie.
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and...maybe you might contact rellies... the funeral home is still running! http://www.bellsmeadows.com/about.html see business was sold, but they may still know family contacts...
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I'm a little boggled by the Maltby info still, but here's a little sidenote in case you're interested.
In that Maltby family tree info, it mentions: "Richard L. Maltby and Margaret (Weston) Maltby also apparently adopted a daughter: 4. Dorothy Margaret Everton, born ca. 1902".
Her birth was registered in King's Norton Q2 1902 and she was a Home Child:
http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/databases/home-children/001015-119.01-e.php?&id_nbr=68959&&PHPSESSID=4i3q062eimrlq4tceeqf0605f6
Dorothy M Everton
arrived 1908-05-28
Middlemore Homes party
Destination Halifax
She was R M Gough's adopted aunt; neither of his mother's two other siblings had children, so if she had children (surname Archibald) they would have been his only cousins. Her 1922 marriage is here:
http://archives.gnb.ca/Search/VISSE/141B7.aspx?culture=en-CA&guid=96c65576-7748-4363-ba41-34253db5d648
I assume that the witness Mary M Gough was R M Gough's mother (you can look at the actual marriage certificate there).
Didn't find anything else useful on a quick search of the NB archives but you might want to have a look:
http://archives.gnb.ca/Search/VISSE/Default.aspx?culture=en-CA
There is no remarriage or death for R M Gough up to the cutoff dates.
There are 13 Gough listings in NB at present
http://www.canada411.ca
... and 51 Archibald listings ...
EDITED to remove full name of father of Melvyn since later posts show that there is a possibility he is living -- I trust that all others in this thread (including the author of the OP will do the same!)
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MILLER, Margaret Constance (GOUGH); 84; ENG>Bay du Vin NB; Times Transcript; 2002-12-7; meuncoll
Most likely the death of Richard's sister
Debbie
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Births Dec Q. 1888 Charles Henry G GOUGH Faversham vol. 2a p. 844w
Mar Q 1891 for a Constance Edith GOUGH
Births Dec 1897 for a Clarence Arthur ( he married Newcastle, N.B 1920 according to a link...but didn't see it )
also check census to see if there are more siblings as this may be one...https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NJQQ-93R
looks to be his Christening Charles Henry Galliott Gough , father Charles Maurice Gough, mother Edith
( you can find the West Ham marriage with her surname Galliott )
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NJW2-7BG
Lots for your friend to go on as far as her ancestry! ( Thanks to Debbie for her fantastic find)
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Here's the fully obituary for the sister:
http://www.inmemoriam.ca/view-announcement-103524-mrs-margaret-c-miller.html
with the big info of where RMG was living at the time of her death in 2002 (in case he stilll is I won't reproduce it here).
There is one Gough listing in the phone book in that location at present, initial not R.
The obit also gives the names and locations of her children and younger generations.
EDITED to remove full name of father of Melvyn since later posts show that there is a possibility he is living -- I trust that all others in this thread (including the author of the OP will do the same!)
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Great find! wow...but..Here is where it gets touchy though, as not all family histories reflect the actual past...so we must tread carefully as noted by janey...There are no other names mentioned beside his, so it may easier to try and make contact with a descendant of the sister's family ... here is one:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0qbn/
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16 Jan 1919 arrival on the Metagama
Chas H Gough 35, b. Eng but in Canada since 1913
Mary Ethel 36 b. Canada
Margaret C. 1 month b. Eng
all headed for Newark N.B.
Debbie
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I agree that approaching the sister's family would be wise. The names given for one child and spouse in the obituary make them easily findable in the phone book (I'm looking at the info so I'll PM it).
Ancestry has historical Canadian telephone directories up to 2002 and I see the listing there for RMG (but I can't see the details as I don't subscribe) but it is not in the current phone book.
edit -- I didn't notice JJ's link -- as it happens, I PMed the other one. ;)
EDITED to remove full name of father of Melvyn since later posts show that there is a possibility he is living -- I trust that all others in this thread (including the author of the OP) will do the same!
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Backing up to the ancestral element, the 1916 Maltby family history referred to in the link posted earlier is available on line here:
http://www.ebooksread.com/authors-eng/dorothy-lord-maltby-verrill/maltby-maltbie-family-history-rre-243/page-15-maltby-maltbie-family-history-rre-243.shtml
http://www.ebooksread.com/authors-eng/dorothy-lord-maltby-verrill.shtml
Mary's war work is the last mention of her, of course. But there's an interesting Gough coincidence dating from the War of 1812!
There were Maltbys all over Canada by WWI. (Note that the scanner made "N" into "X", so Xapier would be Napier, and X.B. is N.B.)
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The ancestry address for R. M. Gough was for Wheatley, Ontario (area of Cambridge)
Currently, using Canada 411, there is one listing for a Gough in Wheatley
Debbie
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For those who do not know how to modify a posting, just hit the modify button to the right of that post and change full names of the living to initials....You can explain your modification if you wish...but for this it is a standard change...In this case, we all got caught up in the fabulous hunt and forgot to use just initials...including myself... :) J.J.
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Hi, I am Samantha Baker. Melvyn Baker / Gough's second daughter by his first marriage to Brenda Mary Gosling. I have an older sister, Tracey. Still very curious about all of this so any further information would be gratefully received. Many thanks
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Hello Jacquie,
Went onto A*****try and this is what I have found for you.
Irene Doris Batchelor born 20 July 1927 Hammersmith,London Eng
.
Date of death June 1973 St Pancras,London Eng.In 1952 family knowledge lived at Chatsworth Road, Brondesbury,Lonon until 1965 and then to Rosedale
Drive,Kingsbury, Middlesex. Occupation Central Middlesex Hospital,London. Hospital receptionist
Married Richard Maltby Gough Staines,Middlesex July/Aug/Sept 1943
Looks like she remarried haven't looked up a marriage for her. Her son Melvyn Richard Gough Baker born Dec. 1944 Eng
Mellvyn married Brenda M Gosing Mar. 1965 Bromley,Kent
Second marriage Sept 1979 Dacorum, Hertfordshire name unknown.
Have not checked to see if he had any children from either marriage
Melvyn died 2009 Eng age 65.
Have found no death for Richard M Gough or any other informatio
If you have a GenesReunited membership there is a passenger record for Richard Maltby Gough. departing 14 June 1948
record indicates he was a clerk. I was not able to see the original something wrong with site.
Hope this is some help to you. You can check BMD records on RootswebFree BMD for records in Eng
Lilybell.
Date of death for Melvyn is listed as 2009. Wondering where he died & exact date.
I can't find any record listed on any of the sites for his death. Any info. would be helpful.
Thanks
Sharon
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Hi S.S.,
The GRO's own published index wasn't available all those years ago. :)
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/indexes_search.asp
BAKER, MELVYN RICHARD (dob) 1943
GRO Reference: DOR Q2/2009 in WORTHING (7861B) Reg 1B010 Entry Number 250
For the exact date, I believe you need the death certificate.
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BAKER, MELVYN RICHARD (dob) 1943
GRO Reference: DOR Q2/2009 in WORTHING (7861B) Reg 1B010 Entry Number 250
For the exact date, I believe you need the death certificate.
From the probate index. https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/#wills
BAKER MELVYN RICHARD
Date of Probate 10 February 2010
3206099
Date of death 15 April 2009
Grant and will Brighton
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thank you so much.
Sharon