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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Dublin => Topic started by: peb21 on Friday 24 August 12 01:40 BST (UK)
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I am hoping someone maybe able to help me find out information for the family of my 2xG.Grandfather.
His name was Philip John Ward, (stated on one of the census as being born in Summer hill) Dublin in 1841, he married at St Matthew in Liverpool 1865. His father is down as John Ward a Attorney.
He may have had a brother John Joseph Ward.
After his marriage he has two sons (Richard John 1866 and Philip Augustus 1868) born in Liverpool. Both sons baptized at Our Lady of Reconciliation de La Salette, Lancashire and then two girls born in Ireland.
Adeline Ward (I have her birth cert.) 21st July 1870 58 Irishtown Road and Helena Agnes 1873.
From 1881 the family are living in London.
I cannot find anything about Philip before his marriage nor his family.
Any help would be greatly appreciated, thank you
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Having an attorney as a father would usually be a good clue as they are listed in directories etc, but I'm not seeing any listing for a John Ward attorney or solicitor in Ireland around the time of Philip's birth, but have some more searches to try..
What denomination are St. Matthew and Our Lady of Reconciliation de La Salette ?
Shane
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Hi there,
This one could be coincidental but in 1866 a Sara Ward from Summer Hill married and her father is listed as a John Ward
sara ward marriage (http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/00c2ab0064423)
Tara
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Hi there,
This is the baptism of Adelina
adelina ward (http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/866bc50363956)
Her godparents were a Peter and Maria Ward so it's most likely this Peter is a brother of Philip.
Tara
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Thank you both very much, this information is great.
St. Matthew if I have found the right one is Roman Catholic.
Our Lady of Reconciliation de La Salette I believe is Roman Catholic, the boys baptizism details are in Latin.
I am wondering if Philip's father was a Attorney as this is an american term, I wouldn't know if this was used in Ireland in that era, or was it something he used to sound good?. But being on a marriage cert. would he lie?.
Philips wife Charlotte was raised in Ireland as her father was in the PortoBello Barracks, he died in 1854. So after this date her family may have moved maybe to the Liverpool area, (apart from her birth I have nothing on her nor family until she marries)so the only relatives I believe that are in Ireland would have been on Philips side.
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Attorney is a term used here at that time - one of the sections the legal directory in Thom's was titled 'Attorneys, Solicitors & Proctors', and contains all of these licensed to practice in Ireland.
I've a few more directories to check and I'll update then.....
p.s. people did 'upgrade' their occupations and that of their father occasionally on marriage certs... I've seen a few examples
S.
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found a possibility in Thom's 1852, not in Summerhill though, he's in South Dublin - as follows :
Law Directory / Attorneys, Solicitors & Proctors
John A. Ward, 9 Haddington Rd., and Downpatrick
As far as I know solicitors had to keep a Dublin address for legal contacts etc, so John may actually have been been based in Downpatrick.
Shane
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If this Ward family were RC and Philip was born in Summerhill then the parish would have been St. Mary's, Marlborough St. (Pro-Cathedral) during the late 1830s and early 40s. Records are included on IrishGenealogy.ie
Ward, St. Mary's - 1840s (http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/search.jsp?namefm=&namel=ward&exact=&name2fm=&name2l=&location=&dd=&mm=&yy=&diocese=DUBLIN%20%28RC%29&parish=ST.%20MARY%2C%20PRO%20CATHEDRAL¢ury=1800&decade=1840&type=B&sort=date&pageSize=100&ddB=&ddM=&ddD=&mmB=&mmM=&mmD=&yyB=&yyM=&yyD=&locationB=&locationM=&locationD=&keyword=&member0=&member1=&member2=&member3=&member4=&member5=&member6=&member7=&member8=&member9=&namef0=&namef1=&namef2=&namef3=&namef4=&namef5=&namef6=&namef7=&namef8=&namef9=&namel0=&namel1=&namel2=&namel3=&namel4=&namel5=&namel6=&namel7=&namel8=&namel9=&submit=Search)
Dont see anything likely for Philip's baptism in the 1830s or 40s..
Summerhill might be used as the name for the area around the the street as well as the street itself..
Shane
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Hey Shane,
I suppose other possibilites are the Summerhill Road in Dunlaoghaire or the Summerhill in Meath.
Tara
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It is a little unusual listing a street as place of birth - suppose it depends on how he interpreted the census instructions. I've heard the general area in the North City referred to as Summerhill..
Think the other returns specifically mentioned Dublin.
Shane
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dont know if it connects for certain but the parents of that Sara Ward - are listed as living in Kildare.
S.
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I was kind of optomistic with that Sarah Ward as her father in law was a Randal McDonnell and I found a later Randal McDonnell working as a solicitor
randal mcdonnell (http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Blackrock_No__2/Grove_Cottages/88173/)
I think I might be clutching at straws tho.
Tara
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A big Thank you to you both
I wonder if Philip put Summer hill down as where he lived when he stayed in Ireland and not necessarily where he was born?.
I know I had one person who on the census put where they last lived down and not where they were born.
I have re-checked my info. and noticed this from Helena Agnes marriage info:-
Father:- Augustus Ward - commercial traveller.
Apart from this Philip is down on all the census and other info. as Philip and a Stationers asst. born Dublin
I happen by chance to speak to a solicitor and asked him if he knew anything about training in this era to become a Attorney. His reply was that he would have to had been taken on as an apprentice in which the father would have had to have paid the 'master' (not like now days where the apprentices get paid).
Your help is really appreciated, thank you
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Well,
this could change things..................
I didn't notice you mention 'stationer's assistant' before
BUT
Remember I mentioned a Peter Ward before
WELL
There is one listed on a lot of trade directory's as a Stationary Supplier - Businessman
Shane may spot these too !
Tara
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Blimey
Could these be nieces and nephews of John's - and our theory of last place lived Summerhill being a correct one !
wards of summerhill (http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Mountjoy/Summerhill/1328352/)
Tara
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Peter Ward the stationer is listed as Christ Church Place on most of the business directories.
I have found him and his wife having a lot of children
peter wards children (http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/search.jsp?name2fm=&name2l=woods&namefm=peter&namel=ward&location=&dd=&mm=&yy=&submit=Search&sort=&pageSize=100&type=B&diocese=&parish=¢ury=&decade=&exact=&ddB=&ddM=&ddD=&mmB=&mmM=&mmD=&yyB=&yyM=&yyD=&locationB=&locationM=&locationD=&member0=&member1=&member2=&member3=&member4=&member5=&member6=&member7=&member8=&member9=&namef0=&namef1=&namef2=&namef3=&namef4=&namef5=&namef6=&namef7=&namef8=&namef9=&namel0=&namel1=&namel2=&namel3=&namel4=&namel5=&namel6=&namel7=&namel8=&namel9=&keyword=)
Some of these children tie in with the 1901 census that I sent you earlier.
Tara
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Thank you Tara
I'm afraid I didn't mention Philips trade at first, interesting that Peter Ward is in the stationers business too.
Looking at Adeline's baptism info, it states Sponsor 1 PETER WARD Sponsor 2 MARIA WARD
Now I wonder if she was another sister?
There are always more questions than answers with this project.
It's a shame that there are no birth cert available..
Although the dates of the baptism's and the census ages are about 6-8 years out, it seems very likely that they are the same persons. Thank you for giving names to work with.
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Hiya,
While you can never be 100% sure with these things without paperwork to back it up, I do think that there are a lot of similarities and connections here to work with
1. The stationary business for Peter and John
2. The address Summerhill for your John and also with Peter's children
3. The fact that a Peter Ward is the sponsor at the baptism of one of John's children
You may not get further back with your Ward's but hopefully this will pad out the ones that you have.
Good Luck
Tara
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Thank you Tara
I really appreciate your looking for the info for me and of course Shane's help as well, without you both I would not have got this info and to add a few more names to my tree.
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Hiya
Glad to be able to help !
Just a few bits for you on Peter Ward.
1. Peter Ward 20 Christchurch Place 1884 Thom's Irish Almanac Wholesale Stationer
2. Peter Ward 20 Christchurch Place 1880 Thom's Irish Almanac Wholesale Stationer
3. Peter Ward 20 Christchurch Place 1868 Thom's Irish Almanac Wholesale Stationer
4. Peter Ward 20 Christchurch Place 1858 Post Office Directory Printer and Stationery Warehouse
Tara
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Elizabeth Woods/Ward died 1882 age about 39 and is buried in Glasnevin
Peter Ward died 1893 age 73 on death cert and age 62 on Glasnevin index
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1893/06012/4711208.pdf
16th Dec 1870 Peter's mother Anne Ward a widow age about 58 died same address
http://www.willcalendars.nationalarchives.ie/reels/cwa/005014889/005014889_00642.pdf
she is also buried Glasnevin
http://www.glasnevintrust.ie/genealogy/results/index.xml