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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Kaybron on Monday 27 August 12 14:29 BST (UK)
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I have not been able to find a birth registration for my grandmother. Very little information is known about her. Her children and grandchildren were told that she was brought up by others, possibly in an orphanage. A 1904 marriage certificate and also a 1906 marriage certificate states a father's name but it has not been possible to find any existence of this person.
Grandmother first appears in the 1901 census, giving her birthplace as Linton, Kent. She also provides this is her birthplace in 1911. Grandmother celebrated her birthday on 14 August and her children were told that she was born in 1880. My Grandmother went by the name of Ada Olive Grey Smith.
I have purchased a number of birth certificates for Ada Smiths born in Kent in the years ranging from 1878 to 1882 but have not been successful. I've also purchased certificates for Adas with different surnames that could be possibilities but have still not been able to find anything. At one stage I was sure that I had found my Grandmother but ended up delving quite deeply into an unrelated family and discovering a number of interesting things about this family. I have also used the services of a Researcher to try and find information but this also has been unsuccessful.
My dilema is that I do not know if my Grandmother was registered under a different name and this was changed later or even if her birth was registered at all.
My query relates to if it is possible to have a birth registration personally searched for at a Records office using a birth date ie 14 August 1880.
Kaybron
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Some register offices will offer a general search of their indices in person (at a fee) but whether that would help I don't know. Linton came under the Maidstone registration district, now part of Kent's registration service for whom there are contact details on this link:
http://extranet3.kent.gov.uk/sp/rois/home.cfm
They may be able to tell you on the phone what sort of search they would do, if any, at what cost.
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I take it you've tried ada grey? I have a similar problem , it's a nightmare.
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Thank you mshrmh and weste for your replies. Having a personal search of the indices for Maidstone for 14 August 1880 would rule out me ordering any more unnecessary birth certificates and would also give me a name that I could follow through with. It might also work out cheaper in the long run.
Yes, I have also searched for Gray. Only yesterday I ordered a certificate for a Female Grey and then realised that there was a death registration shortly afterwards for a Female Grey. This is most probably for the same infant.
Regards Kaybron
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1891 suggestion. (living linton, b maidstone)
RG12/686; Folio: 89; Page: 1
http://www.workhouses.org.uk/Maidstone/
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and a possible for 1881
RG11/632; Folio: 82; Page: 37
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Thank you Pauline J for replying. I have checked both Ada Smiths and have certificates for both.
RG12/686 Folio 89 Page 1: The 2 people above Ada on the original Census copy are Harry and Maria Harris, workers at the Workhouse. Maria Harris was formerly Maria Smith. She had a brother William Smith who had a daughter Ada. In the 1891 Census Ada is not with her parents but is visiting Aunt Maria Harris. In the 1881 and 1901 Census Ada Smith is with her parents. I do have this Ada's birth certificate with details of her parents and have followed this through.
RG11/632 Folio 82 Page 37: I believe I have the birth certificate for this Ada Smith. She was born 25th August, 1878. Her father is Albert Edward Smith a Labourer and mother Elizabeth Smith, formerly Powell. This Ada is with her mother in 1891 in Warwickshire Leamington and there are several other children. In 1901 Ada is not with mother Elizabeth but could possibly be married or in service. In the 1911 Census there is an Ada Smith born 1879 Maidstone, listed in the Aston Union Workhouse Erdington, Warwickshire. This possibly is this Ada, therefore could not be my grandmother who by this time is married to my grandfather.
Thank you for showing interest in this. It gives me the opportunity to go over Adas that I have already looked at and look for things I might have missed.
Regards Kaybron
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I am just revisiting this research trying to follow up any leads relating to my grandmother's origins.
My first post gives background information about my grandmother. Family members were given sketchy details about her birth year and month. I accessed the 1939 register and discovered the birth date provided on this was 14 July, 1883. Quite a bit of the research that I did do earlier looked at Census material and birth registrations ranging from 1878 to 1882. I don't think I looked at Ada Smith's born in 1883 apart from an 1890's Ada Smith which was a massive error in my early attempts at family history research.
I have followed up one Ada Smith who is in the Girls Village Home for Orphan Neglected and Destitute Children at Ilford in the 1891 Census. The reply I received from Barnados was that they did not have any record of an Ada Smith born 14 July, 1883 on their records.
There is a second Ada Smith who is in the 1891 Census and is at the National Orphan Home at Ham with Hatch. I have not been able to follow this Ada through as I am unsure where to look for information relating to this home.
Looking forward to any help leading to breaking down this massive brick wall.
Regards Kaybron
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What was her full married name? She may be on the 1939 Index. Assuming she was married/widow in 1939.
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Hi barryd,
Her full married name was Ada Olive Grey Hammond. On the 1939 Register I have found her birth date as 14 July, 1883. This is 2 or 3 years later than what her children were told was the year she was born. Ada's children were not entirely sure of birth month and year as she was very guarded about her background. Her maiden name was Ada Olive Grey-Smith.
Kaybron
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I have a few instances where the day and month listed in the 1939 register are correct but the years are out, sometimes quite a few years out.
From experience, actually writing or emailing the register office can produce results, if not at least you can rule out potential entries.
The email address for Kent is register.office@kent.gov.uk
email them, explaining your dilemma and enclose as much information as you can, even the spurious father's name which may have been made up for respectabilities sake at the time of marriage. They may email back asking you to pay a fee, but if they do find an entry it will be worth it.
As an aside, I have had some results looking at a wider picture by further exploring the censuses. As an example search the 1891, 1901 and 1911 censuses for others claiming to be born in Linton regardless of where they were enumerated around the years you have in mind (1880-1883) and see if you can find their birth registrations. Also look at a map of the surrounding villages as there is the possibility of being born elsewhere and growing up not knowing exactly where you were born.
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It's already been flagged up that the Maidstone Union workhouse was in the parish of Linton. Have you been able to check out the records for births in the workhouse? Down the years I've noticed that a few of these workhouse births cannot be found in the GRO indexes, and do not appear to have been registered.
The records are at the Kent History and Library Centre, Maidstone
Holdings for the Maidstone Union, including Registers of Births here -
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01i0m/
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Thank you dawnsh for this advice. I will try both things that you have suggested. A couple of years ago I did contact the Kent register office and asked them to have a look for a birth in Linton on a particular date. They did reply so I will do this again and see what eventuates. The searching over 3 census is also a good idea. I did do this earlier but now need to go back and search for 1883 births rather than earlier ones. Can then follow up with birth certificates and see if this leads to anything.
Regards Kaybron
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jonw65,
Thank you for replying. I did hire a researcher to try and find out details about my grandmother in 2012 as I live in Australia. She did look at births at the Maidstone Union workhouse but as I had been told by relatives in England (a daughter and grand daughter) that Ada was born in either 1880 or 1881 a search was made starting in 1878 and up until 1882. I don't believe the researcher looked at births in 1883. A search was also made of the Maidstone Poor Law Union Creed register from 1885 until 1901 but nothing could be found using various combinations of Ada's name.
I will have a look at the link provided.
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Maybe try ordering this certificate?
Olivia Ada C Smith; Oct-Nov-Dec 1877; Holborn; Volume 1b, Page 683
I know that many of the details aren't exact based on what you already know, but at this point I'd start looking at records like this one.
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Hi JAKnighton,
Thank you for your reply. I have just received a reply from the Kent Register Office and they are willing to have a look at their registrations for 8 pounds 75 pence for a 15 minute search. I think this is worthwhile and the way to go at the moment.
In the past I have ordered many certificates that I thought could be the correct one and using birth registrations from 1877 ranging to 1882. The dilemma I have is that I do not know if my grandmother was born a Smith or this was a name she picked up later when being raised by others. The 1939 Register gives a birth date of 14 July 1883 so registrations that I will concentrate on at the moment will be in that year.
Kaybron
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I'd bear in mind that she might not know her year of birth and stretch a couple if years either side of 1883. My GG Grandmother was orphaned at a young age and ended up in the workhouse for a significant period of time. Her place of birth was consistent in various records but the year varied by up to 6 years. On the 1939 register the day and month of her birth is correct but out by 1 year.
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After reading through the older posts, it's a shame you still haven't come any further with your grandmother. Have you been able to find this person she's claiming to be her father on censuses?
I've had some luck with Carlisle and Liverpool registration offices by ordering the certificate with specific information but saying "if mother, birthplace, etc is not ___ please refund" and they refund in full if nothing matches. Just another idea to go with their 15 minute lookups.
I hope for your sake she wasn't born with a whole other name altogether.
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Thank you for the interest shown and replies. I am happy with paying for a lookup, even if this is for 30 minutes. Over the years I have collected many birth certificates for Ada Smiths, even sending away for a Will as I was certain I had found my grandmother. I did manage to discover a number of quite complex relationships relating to one particular Ada Smith and forwarded all of this to a person who was connected to this Ada.
I have not been able to find the father listed on the marriage certificate. This was one of the avenues that the researcher followed and she was not able to locate an Albert John Oscar Smith. Lots of Alberts and Albert Johns but not an Albert John Oscar.
If nothing eventuates with a search conducted through the Kent registration office I will try the Olivia Ada C Smith and send away for a certificate.
Every couple of years I come back and take a fresh look at things and see what I can find, but have not had any luck.
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Just an update on the search information about my grandmother.
I contacted the Kent RO and paid for a search to be completed. A search was made of the Maidstone Union birth register but unfortunately no births were recorded for any children on the precise date of 14 July 1883, or in the surrounding years from 1881-1885. Entries in the Linton baptism register were also searched but nothing revealed. The person conducting the search said that she would look at births just before and after 14 July to see if there were any female children that could be of interest to me. This also did not reveal anything.
I did look at the Olivia Ada C Smith suggested by JAKnighton but discovered that there was a death entry several years after the birth entry.
A distant relative of my husband's who lives in Canada recently had a DNA test completed through Ancestry and managed to uncover relatives through this process. I thought I might try this and see what turns up.
Kaybron
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Hello...are you searching for some info re: the Smith family of Wiltshire?
Also the Barnes of Portsmouth.
Ada and May Barnes were the twin Great Aunts of Dora Barnes (my Grandmother)
Dora Barnes married Arthur Smith of Wiltshire. They lived all their married life in Queenborough and Halway on the isle of Sheppey, Kent.
I may be of some help to you with photographs and possibly some dates.