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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: Rose_Frankcombe on Wednesday 29 August 12 03:33 BST (UK)
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Hi all,
Does anyone have any information on the JOHNS family, in particular THOMAS JOHNS, a shepherd who lived in the high country of Tasmania, Australia, near the Great Lake, with his wife HENRIETTA BENNETT?
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Perhaps the following will help.
BENNETT, Henrietta Age: 19 Marriage
Spouse: JONES, Thomas Age: 30
Marriage Date: 17 Oct 1883
Reg Year: 1883 Reg State: Tasmania
Ref Number: 949
______________
JOHNS, Alfred Thomas Birth
Sex: Male
Father: Thomas
Mother: Bennett Henrietta Louisa
Event Date: 04 Jul 1884
Reg Year: 1884 Reg State: Tasmania
Ref Number: 845
JOHNS, Alice Maud Birth
Sex: Female
Father: Thomas
Mother: Bennett Henrietta Louisa
Event Date: 16 Oct 1886
Reg Year: 1886 Reg State: Tasmania
Ref Number: 2434
JOHNS, Amy May Birth
Sex: Female
Father: Thomas
Mother: Bennett Henrietta
Event Date: 30 Nov 1888
Reg Year: 1889 Reg State: Tasmania
Ref Number: 819
JOHNS, William Robert Birth
Sex: Male
Father: Thomas
Mother: Bennett Henrietta
Event Date: 13 Nov 1890
Reg Year: 1890 Reg State: Tasmania
Ref Number: 860
JOHNS, Colin Leo Birth
Sex: Male
Father: Thomas
Mother: Bennett Henrietta
Event Date: 14 Jan 1895
Reg Year: 1895 Reg State: Tasmania
Ref Number: 1775
JOHNS, Arthur Birth
Sex: Male
Father: Thomas
Mother: Bennett Henrietta
Event Date: 01 Feb 1899
Reg Year: 1899 Reg State: Tasmania
Ref Number: 1697
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Thank you, 'Saddles', for your prompt response to my query.
The information you supply is valuable, although I am beginning to realise the name 'Johns' can often be mistaken for 'Jones', as per the note re Thomas in the marriage information.
Now comes a harder question. I'm breezing along fairly well with Henrietta's forebears, but at this point I'm in a quandary with Thomas's history - ie who were his parents. Any ideas?
I've sighted Thomas's grave but unfortunately there's very little inscription there, save for his name and date of death.
Cheers... Rose
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Further...
1903 Tasmaian Post Office
Johns Thos, charcoal burner, Mangana
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The best fit for a birth is as follows:
JOHNS, Thomas Birth
Sex: Male Father: William
Mother: Langbridge Elizabeth
Event Date: 07 Sep 1851
Reg Year: 1851 Reg State: Tasmania
Ref Number: 219
or
JOHNS, Thomas Edward Birth
Sex: Male Father: Samuel James
Mother: Wiggins Ellen
Event Date: 03 Apr 1854
Reg Year: 1854 Reg State: Tasmania
Ref Number: 842
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It's a tricky one, isn't it, 'Saddles'. I haven't come across the William Johns and Elizabeth Langbridge connection until you provided it, but I feel 1851 discounts parentage, as Thomas was 68 when he died in 1922, thus giving him a birth year of 1854, allowing that the headstone details are correct.
I've been looking at the Samuel Johns aspect of the family, wondering if there is a connection, and find there are 2 Samuels, who both married in 1850 - one to Margaret McDaid, in June 1850 - and the other to Helen Wiggins, in September 1850.
Makes it difficult to decide which one at this stage... Cheers... Rose
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Hi all,
THOMAS JOHNS, a shepherd who lived in the high country of Tasmania, Australia, near the Great Lake, with his wife HENRIETTA BENNETT?
The ELECTORAL ROLLS show seperate addresses or HENRIETTA and THOMAS.
I am happy to type the Electoral findings for the people by the name JOHNS in the district if you do not have them.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/9933973?searchTerm="thomas johns" +"great lake"&searchLimits=
This advertisement shows there was clearly an estrangement between HENRIETTA and THOMAS. He says she deserted her home in 1907.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/61116416?searchTerm="thomas johns" +"great lake"&searchLimits=
Detailed obituary for eldest son Alfred Thomas gives good family picture 1953
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/50764879?searchTerm="thomas johns" +"great lake"&searchLimits=
Thomas in the news sues for damages 1914
Sue
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I have just checked the Public Member trees on ancestry and there are several there for this family.
Some have Thomas Edward Johns, some have Thomas Johns. Some show his birth as 3rd April 1854 some 7th September 1851.
Most have parents Samuel James Johns and Ellen Wiggins
Others have parents William Johns and Elizabeth Louisa Hopsall( some show her to have been married several times so other surnames)
All have the wife of Thomas Johns/Thomas Edward Johns as Henrietta Louisa Bennett.
Sorry if this has just caused more confusion, but if you check that website you might be able to contact the submitters and resolve things that way.
Noells
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BENNETT, Henrietta Age: 19 Marriage
Spouse: JONES, Thomas Age: 30
Marriage Date: 17 Oct 1883
Reg Year: 1883 Reg State: Tasmania
Ref Number: 949
My resource has the surname of Thomas mistranscribed on the marriage registration also however the registration place is Oatlands.
Alfred Thomas, Amy May and William Robert's births were registered at Bothwell. Alice Maud, Colin Leo and Arthur's births were registered at Oatlands.
Marriages
JOHNS Alice Maud
CASEY Edward
14 Oct 1903
At St Peters Church, Oatlands Reg#1067
JOHNS Amy May
LOCKWOOD George Bertram
21 Aug 1905
At St Peters Church, Oatlands Reg#1098
JOHNS William Robert
McCARTHY Eileen Lilian
17 Apr 1922
At Saundridge Church of England Church Reg#1367
Australian Electoral Roll
1914 Franklin/Bothwell
JOHNS Henrietta Jean Banks, Bothwell Home duties
JOHNS Thomas Great Lake Shepherd
JOHNS William Bothwell Labourer
1919 Franklin/Bothwell
JOHNS Elizabeth Great Lake Home duties
JOHNS George David Great Lake Shepherd
JOHNS Henrietta Jean Banks, Bothwell Home duties
JOHNS Thomas Great Lake Shepherd
1928 Wilmot/Bothwell
JOHNS Arthur Leslie Shannon Scheme Labourer
JOHNS Colin Shannon Labourer
JOHNS Ernest Edward Shannon Shepherd
JOHNSGeorge David Allenvale Great Lake Shepherd
JOHNS Henrietta Shannon Home duties
1936, 1937 Wilmot/Bothwell
JOHNS Colin Cider Park Great Lake Laborer
JOHNS Elizabeth Allenvale Great Lake Home duties
JOHNS Ernest Edward Kanne Leena, Waddamana Shepherd
JOHNS George David Allenvale Great Lake Shepherd
JOHNS Henrietta Louisa Kanna Leena, Waddamana Home duties
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waddamana,_Tasmania
This Thomas b. c1854. Henrietta's husband born c1853 according to the marriage registration and he is not listed on the 1928 electoral roll with Henrietta.
Headstone of Thomas JOHNS
Died in 1922 aged 68years
Campbell Town, St Lukes Anglican Cemetery
JOHNS Thomas
Parents not recorded
11 Aug 1922
At District Hospital Campbell Town 1922 Reg#92
Cheers
Cando
Sorry called away and I now see that there are numerous replies to your request...you may as well have this anyway.
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Amendment....Thomas is not listed on the 1928 electoral roll.
Cando
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These are to two birth regs mentioned on the thread. So many online trees copy information from one to another without purchasing validating documents. :-X :-X
JOHNS Thomas
Father William Mother Elizabeth LANGBRIDGE
7 Sep 1851
At Hamilton Reg#219/1851
JOHNS Thomas Edward
Father Samuel James Mother Ellen WIGGINS
3 Apr 1854 Hobart Reg#842/1857
This is the only other Thomas JOHNS marriage to 1900 and he states he was born c1845.
JOHNS Thomas 23 years
HIGGINS Charlotte 17 years
25 Aug 1868
At Deloraine Reg#51/1868
Perhaps Thomas JOHNS born c1853 who married Henrietta BENNETT was not born in Tasmania.
Cando
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I think, 'cando', that my best bet it to get a valid certificate of birth registration for Thomas Johns, with parents inscribed upon it (hopefully). That way the uncertainties and discrepancies will be eliminated. Guess-work could go on indefinitely, so a solid conclusion to this aspect of the story can be resolved and other doors can be opened.
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I did post a thank you to 'cando', 'Noells' and 'Sparrett' (Sue) but where it's gone, is anyone's guess. I will wait a little longer this time, to make sure this one uploads! LOL
I found it interesting, Sue, that your post suggested there had been a split between Thomas and Henrietta, as, between me and my husband, who is a great-grandson of Thomas and Henrietta, with us having only begun this research in recent days, we, too, are both also coming to that conclusion. Especially now we've viewed Thomas's grave in Campbelltown - and find Henrietta is buried in Bothwell. We thought that may have been for practical purposes. However, it appears it was not. Thomas has a lovely headstone - and a surround that's weathering - but his details inscribed on marble are scant, with just his name and his date of death in 1922.
Henrietta, however, is a different story altogether. Much sadder in many, many respects. She's buried in the Bothwell cemetery, in an unmarked grave for which there's no longer a record.
I have been scouring Trove for any mention of Thomas, until his death, but found no death notice. I did, however, last night find the small item in the Zeehan and Dundas Herald, would you believe, of the damages claim he'd made for an ambitious 500 pounds, with his case as the plaintiff being upheld but the damages awarded far from the ambit claim, him gaining a mere 40 pounds, which I guess was no mean amount in the day anyway, I would say...
I've had no further success with him via Trove, so your additional links are very exciting...
I hadn't realised, 'Noells', that there were other references to the Johns listed. I did look prior to posting my initial query, but obviously didn't see the ones that were already there.
With the contention as to who wins the prize in the parents' stakes, I think it would be wisest to go to the BDM's registry and order a copy of Thomas's birth certificate. Hopefully, and I would expect the parents names to be there. I wonder what it will reveal...
And 'cando', the listings of the marriages of the various siblings, is also valuable. Our connection is to Amy May (Ismay) and, although we knew she was married at Oatlands, until your posting we didn't know she was married in St Peters.
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Hi
I agree with your plan to purchase the birth certificate. According to a document I have which sets out what you should expect to find on various bdm certificates you should hopefully get the name and occupation of the father and the name and maiden name of the mother. In addition of course to the name,date and place of birth of the child
Fingers crossed ;D
Noells
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My concern is ...yes the birth certificate will detail the parents but an 1883 marriage registration in Tasmania will not. The death index indicates there are no parents detailed on Thomas's death certificate.
Thomas's Will leaves all his assets to son William Robert, who was also the sole executor. Perhaps it was Wm who was responsible for the headstone.
http://portal.archives.tas.gov.au/menu.aspx?search=9
She's buried in the Bothwell cemetery, in an unmarked grave for which there's no longer a record.
Are you saying there are no Burial Orders or Burial Register entries for the cemetery? There are a number of cemeteries listed at Bothwell. In which one is Henrietta buried?
Cheers
Cando
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Mercury 7 Sep 1938
death Henrietta Louisa Johns, of Kenna Leena, Shannon, relict of Thomas Johns d. 6 Nov at Bothwell eldest d/o Robert and Ellen Bennett of Oatlands 73yrs
funeral to leave from res. Mrs John Goggins St Michaels and All Angels Bothwell
There is a will for Thomas Johns, d. 11 Aug 1922 executor and beneficiary is son William Robert Johns.
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did, however, last night find the small item in the Zeehan and Dundas Herald, would you believe, of the damages claim he'd made for an ambitious 500 pounds, with his case as the plaintiff being upheld but the damages awarded far from the ambit claim, him gaining a mere 40 pounds, which I guess was no mean amount in the day anyway, I would say...
Yes, I linked some of this for you in reply #6
The separation of the couple is quite evident.
If you study the Electoral Roll entries from Cando you will note the divisions in the family in terms of their addresses.
William Robert JOHNS, the son and inheritor, tried to join the ww1 forces but had health problems which precluded this.
His mother was his Next Of Kin in 1917 , but father in 1916. They had different addresses.
You can see his digitised service records -
http://www.naa.gov.au/collection/using/search/
He applied again for the ww2 forces and his NOK then was Eileen Johns.
Sue
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Hello again, everyone,
Yes, 'Noells', I will get on to the application for a birth certificate for Thomas ASAP. Fingers will be crossed that it reveals what I would like to know... I am hoping a birth certificate/registration document will be more revealing than a Marriage Certificate or a Death Certificate would, although I wondered if a Death Certificate would contain a note on cause of death.
And 'cando', Henrietta, of Kanna Leena, Shannon, 1938, was taken from the residence of Mrs Goggin, to St Michael's and All Angels Anglican Church, Bothwell, where a Rev. Walter Walters performed the service, and then she was buried in the general cemetery nearby. I have been in touch with Bothwell, and all who have followed up my queries have been extremely helpful. However, I have been given a reply that there are a number of unmarked graves in the cemetery and it is unknown in which one Henrietta lies. I have looked at Gravesites of Tasmania, and there she's not listed for Bothwell.
I did download a copy of Thomas's will the other night and was surprised to find his beneficiary and executor was his fourth child and second son. I notice from the information you have supplied, William married in the same year as his father died. It could well have been William who arranged the headstone and grave surround for his father. Henrietta's father also died in this year, 1922, in October, from memory.
Until I followed the link you supplied Sue, I thought it would be to the just brief few lines from the Zeehan and Dundas Herald (don't you just love that title), but no, it was a fuller version of what happened, but not enough to fully satisfy and only brought about further curiosity as to what the fracas was all about...
Ah, more for me to look at. It occurred to me that WWI may have had an effect on family members, deciding that perhaps Thomas was too old to be considered but maybe his sons were not.
So, for this post, thank you, everyone... Until next time... Rose
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Hi Rose,
I have just come across your post and have noticed that you are seeking information about Henrietta. My mum is a wealth of knowledge when it comes to family history :) I will get her to read your posts and see what she knows that may help.
I am also a descendant of Amy Ismay JOHNS, I know her as Granny Johns, she was my great grandmother, my nanna being Amy Stella Beverley LOCKWOOD. Granny Johns passed away a couple of years before I was born, but we have some fantastic photos stored away. In my younger days, I spent a lot of time with Aunties Greta and Noreen, and Uncle Vaughan.
Regards,
Jo Sorensen (from Tassie Wilcox/Lockwood blood)
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Hi Jo,
Thanks for your post re Thomas JOHNS, the elusive relative!
Yes, Granny Lockwood, nee Johns was a lovely lady.
I know your gran and your mum and lots of others in the family... LOL...
Noreen was my mother-in-law.
I pursued Thomas with no definite success, even to the point of ordering a birth certificate for him, which returned information that was tenuous to say the least. I have some thoughts as to how to pursue this further. A bit of lateral thinking comes in handy from time to time...
I've had contact with Bothwell but was sadly disappointed that Granny Henrietta, Hetty, was buried in an unmarked grave there and no records were kept, or more probably were lost.
I've seen Thomas's grave in Campbelltown cemetery.
I've seen Henrietta's forbear's graves in Oatlands.
Thank you for making the contact... Cheers... Rose
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My grandmother is Alice Johns daughter of the Henrietta & Thomas. I have no proof, but my mother told me that Thomas changed his name to Johns-not Jones either. His real surname probably is Johannes and perhaps his Christian name is not Thomas. Also he may of jumped ship from a visiting Russian freighter that sailed into Hobart, and escaped taking on a new identity.
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Hello, Michelle. Thank you for your post. Although I have seen Thomas Johns' grave in the St Luke's Anglican Church cemetery, Campbelltown, and there is indication there was a distinct rift in his family, getting to the nub of him was/is very difficult, with records of import non existent, it would seem. Jumping ship was not an unknown practice, and I suppose this isolated little island was ideal for such a feat. I feel sure I have heard about a tenuous Russian connection, beit a freighter - or by imaginings of aristocratic connections (folk lore, I'm guessing). Rose
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Hi there I have a card received by my great grandmother Frances Anne Lousia Johns from her brother Thomas Johns who was a shepherd in the high country.