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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: Luzzu on Thursday 30 August 12 12:59 BST (UK)
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Hi,
In 1911 I have Charles and Rose Ann France living at 6 Hamilton Street, Hulme and they have been married for 6 years. Their eldest son, also Charles France, was born on 8 Nov 1906.
I am struggling to find a marriage for Charles and Rose Ann which should be around 1905. I just can't see it so either there isn't one or I need a fresh pair of eyes to take a look.
Can anyone help please?
Luzzu :)
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Have a little look at this,
John France aged 24
back packer
of 79 Lord Duncan Street
son of Seth France a foreman ?
Rose Ellen Roberts aged 21 of the same address
father John Roberts a joiner
witness to marriage John ? Sarah Ellen Roberts
Salford Parish Church 5th August 1905
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The marriage is on Lancashire opc and the details are much clearer to read
do yo have any thing on Charles senior to assist in the search,
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There is a tree on Ancestry that has her name as Edna Rose Ann Wild and says they married at Chorlton 1906 maybe you could have a look that Take Care Lynette
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Well spotted
Chorlton Upon Medlock Register office or registrar attended
Edna R Wild and Charles France
1906
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There's a 1906 Q1 marriage of Charles France to Edna Rose Wild - Chorlton RO or RA from Lancs BMD. LancsBMD has Charles birth but not his brother's that I can see, but not an entry that has mother's maiden name.
(Just seen lyn22's post)
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Thanks everyone for your replies. The Charles France/Edna Rose Ann Wild marriage looks very promising. A pity its Registry Office/Registrar Attended so the certificate is the only way to go.
Luzzu :D
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Not entirely convinced, but this would fit with her age :
Birth, Mar qtr 1880
Rose Ann Wild
Wakefield, Vol 9c, page 42
Pels.
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Thanks Pels,
Rose Ann France gives her birth place as Sheffield, Yorkshire on the 1911 census (not far from Wakefield) and she was 31 so it does fit.
Luzzu
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There are two worth looking at.
Rosa Wild,Sheffield District,Oct/Nov/Dec quarter 1879,Volume 9c,Page 495.
Rosa Wilde,Eccleshall BierlowDistrict,Oct/Nov/Dec quarter 1880,Volume 9c,Page 299.
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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Thanks. I'll take a look.
Luzzu :)
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One of the children's birth certificates would give you Rose Ann's maiden name which would make it easier to find the correct marriage.
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Good idea I wonder if there are other children besides Charles. Take Care Lynette
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Hi,
I have the marriage cert of Charles France and Rose Ann/Edna Wild, let me know what info you need. I have their children as Charles, John Amos, Arthur and Edna. I think Charles and Rose are my great grandparents with Arthur being my grandad. However am not commiting as on the marriage cert his father is Charles Buckley France and I have never heard this name from any of the family, although its possible and on the plus side I do remember my dad telling me his gran was from Sheffield so still looking into it. The national archives hold some photos and information regards Charles Buckley France living at Platt Fields which I must check out some day.
Regards Julie
ps. on the marriage cert her father is Charles Herbert Wild
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Hi Julie,
The fact that Charles Buckley France is the father of Charles France is good news from my point of view. It does look like we are researching the same family. Your great grandfather, Charles France, is my 1st cousin, 3 x removed so you and I are very distantly related.
Charles Buckley France and my 2 x gt grandmother, Elizabeth Jane France, are brother and sister so our common relatives are our 3 x gt grandparents, Thomas France and Ann Buckley who married at Manchester Cathedral on 11 Oct 1841 and lived in Canal Street, Manchester. Thomas France was from Slaithwaite near Huddersfield.
In 1911, Charles France was living at 6 Hamilton Street. Next door at number 8 Hamilton Street was the Haigh family. Elizabeth Jane Haigh's maiden name was France. My great grandfather, Thomas Haigh, wasn't with the family in Hamilton Street though as he had married a couple of months before and moved in with his new in-laws.
I am aware of the file held by the National Archives and in fact ordered a copy of the photograph of Charles Buckley France with his goat (goats are one of my favourite animals :D).
Please feel free to PM with any questions regarding the France family as I have amassed a fair amount of information, extracts from parish registers etc.,
Luzzu :)
Please would you let me know the date and location of the France/Wild wedding.
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Hi
How exciting and nice to hear from you. I am cautious as I have gone down the wrong line of France's a couple of times on this branch of my research. The problem is that around the same time their seemed to be a more than one Charles France married in Manchester, plus I have seen his wife listed as Rose/Edna/Rose Ann so its been confusing.
Regards the photos is there a picture of Charles France Senior or Junior? I will send you a copy of the marriage cert tonight.
I had a feeling this family would be connected with Slaithwaite as there is a theme with the name John Amos Ernest which seems to carry on down the line.
Julie
I couldnt find a link to order from the national archives, do you have to telephone them?
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ps. on the marriage cert her father is Charles Herbert Wild
You may have already looked into this, but there is a married Rose A Wild, born c.1880, in Sheffield on the 1901 census. Her husband's name is Charles H Wild, razor blade cutter. A son, also Charles H has been mistranscribed as Charlotte.
In 1911, Charles Herbert Wild, razor blade striker, puts down that he is married but is living with his mistress servant. (That's not me being judgmental, its what it says on the record - Mistress crossed out and overwritten Servant)
Was wondering if this might explain the new name of 'Edna Rose' on the marriage to Charles France in 1906? Covering tracks of the previous marriage?
:) Barbara
Free BMDs has a possible maiden name of Williams for Rose Ann in Sheffield
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Hi Barbara
Thanks for that info, its very interesting I will look into that further. Mistress/servant! lol I havent seen that before.
Julie France
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Well Barbara,the same Charles Herbert Wild according to the National Probate Calendar in 1918 left Probate etc to the said "servant".
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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I'm sure Luzzu knows I can be relied on to lower the tone! ;D ;D
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Well I hope the Mistress Servant was left lots of money 8)
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Well it says Charles Herbert left effects worth £106 and eight pence.
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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Thanks Barbara and William. Nothing like a hint of a scandal to liven things up a bit. Can't quite get my head around it but if its the same lady she put her former husband's name as her father at her marriage to Charles France ???.
Seems like Charles Herbert was being very honest on the 1911 census writing "mistress" and then had second thoughts and crossed it out. Its a good job tippex hadn't been invented otherwise we would never have known.
Not sure how to progress this further. I am not sure if ordering the Charles Herbert Wild/Rose Ann Williams marriage certificate would prove anything. There is less than 7 years between the two marriages so it could be bigamy ???
Luzzu :)
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Hi Julie,
You are right France in Yorkshire isn't an easy name to research and when you couple it with Haigh :o. I think think half of Yorkshire have these names in their family.
Amos does feature a lot in the family. I think it came from Thomas France's maternal grandfather who was Amos Armitage. Abel is another family name.
I think I applied to the Greater Manchester County Records Office for the photographs. They were of Charles Buckley France not his son, Charles. I think there was one of his daughter, Jessie, as well from memory.
Charles Buckley France was buried at Southern Cemetery. In the same grave is his mother, Ann France nee Buckley (his father Thomas was buried at Chorlton Row Dissenters Cemetery with his mother and a couple of his brothers). Also in the grave are Charles Buckley's France's two wives, Ann and Sophia (both had the maiden name Taylor but were not related) and three of Charles Buckley France's daughters.
Do you want to PM your email address ;)
Luzzu
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Not sure how to progress this further. I am not sure if ordering the Charles Herbert Wild/Rose Ann Williams marriage certificate would prove anything. There is less than 7 years between the two marriages so it could be bigamy ???
It might be useful to compare the bride's signatures, but of course an expensive option for what is still a bit tentative connection.
Julie, I suppose you've tried looking for a Charles Herbert Wild that had a daughter Edna/Rose/Ann - or maybe just a daughter! - in Sheffield?
The Rose Ann Wild that Pels found in Wakefield, there is a baptism on Ancestry's Yorkshire Non-Conformist records. Rose Ann Wild, Bap. 26 April 1880 age 9 weeks, her parents were Adam and Jane Wild of Carr Gate, Wakefield.
:) Barbara
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Knowing my luck she will have "made her mark" and not signed. Julie will know though as she has the 1906 certificate.
The Wakefield birth and baptism seems more unlikely now given this latest find. I remember Pels said he/she wasn't entirely convinced at the time. The 1911 census does say Rose Ann was born in Sheffield not Wakefield and Julie was also told that her dad's gran was from Sheffield.
There was a Rose Ann Williams registered in Sheffield 4th qtr 1879 that might be right ???
Luzzu :)
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Hi
No signature on the marriage entry as register office. Here are the details
7 march 1906
Charles France aged 27, bachelor working as 'carter' living at Platt Hall, Rusholme, father Charles Buckley France/ corporation labourer
Edna Rose Wild aged 26, living 316 Dickenson Road, Rusholme, father Charles Herbert Wild/ Mechanical Engineer
Witnessed by Hugh William Jones and Emma Jones
Not sure any of it is much help.
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Thanks for posting the details. Does the marriage certificate say she was a spinster and who were the witnesses? Do you have any birth certificates of their children. I was wondering if the mother's maiden name was Wild. Presumably it is but just wanted to check.
I have sent you a PM.
Luzzu
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Hi, my maiden name is France
The john france you mention is my great grandfather who was married to rose Ellen france ( nee Roberts)
John was 29 when he passed away in salford. He and rose Ellen had 1 son seth france my grandfather.
Kind regards Tracey