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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: Jessies Mum on Friday 31 August 12 01:28 BST (UK)
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Searching for any information on Henry Toms and his wife Mary A of Balranald please. Looking around circa 1890's please.
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Have you tried TROVE, NSW BDM's?
Why do you think Henry TOMS and his wife were 'of Balranald' other than their marriage in 1889?
Cheers
Cando
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Have been advised that Henry was from Moon Island and Mary A possibly originally from Sydney - believe that Henry was a mariner and worked on a station in Balranald.
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Hi,
A couple of Henry Toms mentions.
1875 NSW PO Directory
Boat Harbour 340 miles North of Sydney.
Toms, Henry., Cook, Avon Lakes.
A Henry Toms was locked up for a week at the Cooma Gaol for attempted suicide. Tried at the Cooma Quarter Sessions 8th November 1889.
Regards
Gerry
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Here's a curly - just found out that there are two Henry Toms married to Mary in NSW roughly the same time - one in Cooma area, one in Balranald area. Believe that the Balranald Henry had possibly eight children or so.
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7 under TOMS 1 Under THOMS Balranald.
Neil
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There is also a Marriage of Henry Thoms in Sydney 1888.
Are you sure of Which one you want. ???
Neil
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3700/1889 TOMS HENRY SMITH MARY A BALRANALD
This is the marriage, definitely TOMS - sorry but I stated earlier Henry was from Moon Island - big woops, that should have been Moon, Ireland.
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1901 NSW Census: Henry TOMS Balranald.
1903 NSW Electoral Roll: Harry & Mary Ann TOMS Balranald - labourer & domestic duties.
1903 Bankruptcy: TOMS Henry Balranald - Labourer - 27/05/1903
http://srwww.records.nsw.gov.au/indexes/searchform.aspx?id=59
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Hello Jessies mum, I was just wondering if you ever found any further information on Henry Toms and his wife Mary of Balranald? I am particularly interested in information on Mary ( Mary Ann Smith) who I believe may have been an Aboriginal woman? Any information at all would be very helpful for my research
thanks
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Their 1889 marriage certificate should include details about Mary Ann ie her age, place of birth, parents names including mother's maiden name and father's occupation. Transcriptions are available in NSW for c$20. Transcript is emailed to you.
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/Pages/family-history/family-history.aspx#transcription
Is this Henry's death?
17741/1913
TOMS Henry
Father Patrick
District Balranald
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article134744947
Riverina Recorder 3 Dec 1913
OBITUARY,
H. Toms.
After ailing for two or three years, "Harry" Toms, an old inhabitant of the district, succumbed at the Hospital on Thursday last, the cause of death being Uraemia, brought on by Brights' disease. Deceased was twice an inmate of the hospital, the first time in June and July for 24 days, and he re-entered the institution 18 days before his death.
The well-known veteran was a native of Liverpool, England, and after sailing the seas for some time he arrived in Australia, coming to this district so many years ago that he had forgotten the count. It is estimated, however, that he came Riverina at least 40 years ago.
His early Australian days were spent on Canally Station, and in his time he has been employed on every station in the district. Just, before his death he gave his age as 70. He leaves a widow and a large family of adults and juveniles to mourn his loss.
Cando
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There a a number of birth registrations to this couple commencing 1892, prior to their marriage.
Any other those birth certificates should have Mary Ann's age and place of birth.
Cando
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Did Mary Ann remarry?
11772/1918
SMITH Richard
TOMS Mary A
District Balranald
Cando
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Thank you so much for your help. I was able to obtain the marriage certificate of Mary Ann and Henry in 1889 in Balranald, NSW. Unfortunately The certificate does not list either of their parents names. Not sure if the death record you found is the same Henry I am looking for as I have him born in Australia and his parents listed as George Henry and Mahaleth
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Did Mary Ann remarry?
11772/1918
SMITH Richard
TOMS Mary A
District Balranald
Cando
She was listed as Mary Ann Smith on her wedding certificate on 26/12/1889 to Henry Toms . Usual place of residence for both was Canally Station, NSW
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Hi there,
From the NSW electoral Roll 1913 for MURRAY, polling at Balranald
Mary Ann TOMS, domestic duties
William TOMS, labourer
May I mention that the electors needed to be aged 21 years and over and British Subjects. It is unusual to find Aboriginal People on electoral rolls in that era. The Commonwealth Parliament had legislated in 1902 to grant adult suffrage but effectively excluded many/most Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people.
Some general background info here:
https://www.nla.gov.au/research-guides/australian-electoral-rolls
JM
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Hi there,
May I ask about the info that is recorded on the 1889 marriage certificate. This is a registration for rural NSW, so it may well be that NSW BDM head office in Sydney only received a summary of the details at that time. NSW BDM commenced reconciling their records with the Church records in 1912, but WWI took their experienced clerks and the reconciliation was not ever completed.
The Church records should be extant, and NSW BDM's own webpage acknowledges that it can be sensible to seek out the church records where there are blanks on their own civil registry ledgers.
Here's a now lengthy thread I commenced some time ago, it may be useful if there are those elusive blanks on the marriage cert.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,546609.0.html
JM
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Hi there,
From the NSW electoral Roll 1913 for MURRAY, polling at Balranald
Mary Ann TOMS, domestic duties
William TOMS, labourer
May I mention that the electors needed to be aged 21 years and over and British Subjects. It is unusual to find Aboriginal People on electoral rolls in that era. The Commonwealth Parliament had legislated in 1902 to grant adult suffrage but effectively excluded many/most Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people.
Some general background info here:
https://www.nla.gov.au/research-guides/australian-electoral-rolls
JM
Thank you, according to family members Mary "passes" as an Indian woman, so I'm not sure if that helped her get on an electoral roll?
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Hi there,
May I ask about the info that is recorded on the 1889 marriage certificate. This is a registration for rural NSW, so it may well be that NSW BDM head office in Sydney only received a summary of the details at that time. NSW BDM commenced reconciling their records with the Church records in 1912, but WWI took their experienced clerks and the reconciliation was not ever completed.
The Church records should be extant, and NSW BDM's own webpage acknowledges that it can be sensible to seek out the church records where there are blanks on their own civil registry ledgers.
Here's a now lengthy thread I commenced some time ago, it may be useful if there are those elusive blanks on the marriage cert.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,546609.0.html
JM
Thanks I am happy to provide any information from the certificate at all. So do you know where I could access the St Barnabas Church records?
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Not sure if the death record you found is the same Henry I am looking for as I have him born in Australia and his parents listed as George Henry and Mahaleth
Are these details taken from the marriage certificate?
Cheers
Cando
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:) Re St Barnabas Church
I expect the document will include the denomination .... perhaps 'according to the rites of' or '..... form of' .... and sometimes the clergy's signature may include mention of the denomination.
3700/1889 TOMS HENRY SMITH MARY A BALRANALD
Likely it would be St Barnabas Anglican Church in Mayall St, Balranald. It could well be administratively in a diocese based in Victoria, perhaps Wangaratta ? I am not sure.
EDIT to strike through, as it is not that diocese, see later post from Cando as it is in the Anglican Diocese of the Riverina, noting that I also deleted wrong http info.
JM
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:) Re St Barnabas Church
I expect the document will include the denomination .... perhaps 'according to the rites of' or '..... form of' .... and sometimes the clergy's signature may include mention of the denomination.
3700/1889 TOMS HENRY SMITH MARY A BALRANALD
Likely it would be St Barnabas Anglican Church in Mayall St, Balranald. It could well be administratively in a diocese based in Victoria, perhaps Wangaratta ? I am not sure.
http://www.wangaratta-anglican.org.au/#
JM
It is listed as According to the Rites of the Church of England Married in the St Barnabas Church of England
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Not sure if the death record you found is the same Henry I am looking for as I have him born in Australia and his parents listed as George Henry and Mahaleth
Are these details taken from the marriage certificate?
Cheers
Cando
No parents are not listed on the marriage certificate
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Ok.
I can't do it at the moment but I have a resource for Parish records in Aus and their locations. Be back later. Someone else may have the same resource and may look for the location of those records.
Cando
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Ok.
I can't do it at the moment but I have a resource for Parish records in Aus and their locations. Be back later. Someone else may have the same resource and may look for the location of those records.
Cando
Thanks a million!
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That would be the same St Barnabas Church that I mentioned. :) The parish registers are usually very detailed, and should give you the full details for each of those elusive blanks on the NSW BDM document. The Church records are not public records, so you may need to take 'little steps' to establish where they are currently stored, and if you can access them. I find that if I provide a copy of the civil record (ie the NSW BDM document) and acknowledge that a volunteer may need to find spare moment, and simply patiently wait for their reply that the wait is usually worthwhile. :) So perhaps a google search for St Barnabas Anglican, Balranald may find an email address, but usually it is still sensible to start out with a snail mail letter, a copy of the NSW BDM document and an enclosed stamped self addressed envelope for their reply. You may well offer to make a donation to your local Anglicare office, but that should be completely voluntary.
But best to wait to see if other RChatters can confirm which diocese office .... :)
(My Nick Vine Hall resource has been borrowed by friend and not readily available, sorry)
JM
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Nick Vine Hall has the location at RA which I think indicates Regional Agency. Not included in the pages of codes etc.
https://www.csu.edu.au/research/archives/collection/regional/records/religious
Balranald (St. Barnabas') Parish; baptism register, marriage registers, accounts book, cash book, minute book of the Cemetery Trust, minute books of the Council, service registers, bundle containing accounts and receipts, marriage certificate butts and photograph of Rev. W. H. H. Yarrington, 1877–1968, RW1025; marriage registers, register of services, minute books of the Parochial Council, minute book of the Ladies Guild and Burial Board accounts, 1892–1987, RW1415 volumes 5-11; confirmation lists, 1966-1970, RW2497 item 2; 27 volumes, 2 bundles (1.24m).
Cando
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Thanks Cando.
I will go back and edit my post re Wangaratta.
JM
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Hi I have their marriage certificate too. Henry I believe was not born in Australia and was a mariner. Mary possibly an Aboriginal woman based on family account of her being of dark complexion and native. Possibly explains the lack of birth certificate for her? Yes she remarried after Henry's death. I've hit a road block on anything surrounding Mary's birth and death again not unusual for Aboriginal persons to not have them.
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Hi CookieCat
thanks for that information. Is it possible at all to tell me where you have seen reference to a family account of her being of a "dark complexion and native". The reason being is that I have found birth and death certificates for a Mary Anne Smith, who's information matches the information I have been researching and says her parents are Elizabeth Smith Formally Neale and John Charles Smith. As I believe both Elizabeth and John are from England/Scotland I'm wondering if Mary Ann was possibly adopted by the couple, which I know was common back in the day. There is also the chance that I have the entirely wrong Mary Ann however the information I have all matches up. Any help is most appreciated, as I would really like to find the Aboriginal connections for this family.
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Hi , My great grand mother is Mary Ann Smith married to Henry Toms , my grandfather was John Francis Toms and yes Mary was an aboriginal lady I have a photo being sent to me of her ,she is buried in the Nyah West cemetery in an unmarked grave my dad was going to put a head stone on it but unfortunately he passed .
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Hello Tomys,
Jessies Mum has been notified of your reply, they were online a few days ago hopefully they will reply soon.
Regards
Sarah
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Hi , My great grand mother is Mary Ann Smith married to Henry Toms , my grandfather was John Francis Toms and yes Mary was an aboriginal lady I have a photo being sent to me of her ,she is buried in the Nyah West cemetery in an unmarked grave my dad was going to put a head stone on it but unfortunately he passed .
Hi, Mary Ann Smith is my 3rd great grandmother. My nanna’s grandmother is your grandfather’s sister (Mary Kathleen Toms). I have found a photo of Mary Ann which I think I have attached to this (first time using this site.)
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Oops, forgot to mention that I have been told by another family member that I’ve met along this journey that Mary Ann Smith was a Yorta Yorta woman. I was also told that she was married twice and had 10 children.
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Hi Tash thanks for the photo ,I have come to the end of my search and believe that Mary was possibly adopted