RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: diplodicus on Monday 03 September 12 18:11 BST (UK)
-
My stepmother's family name was Bardouleau and I can trace her ancestors back to about 1791. Augustus Bardouleau appears in the census and in BMDs but there is one mystery around which I can't seem to get my head.
I have the 1870 probate record for Augustus Phidelceas Bardouleau of White Horse Lane, Mile End Old Town and whose effects passed to his son Charles Hard (should be Hart) Bardouleau.
I also have the 1816 Southwark Christ Church's Marriage Register showing the marriage between Augustin Fulgentius Bardouleau and Elizabeth Roze(sic) Hart. Augustin actually signed the register as Augustin Fulgentius Bardouleau.
It is easy to assume these are one and the same but I would rather be certain if possible.
Any suggestions?
(p.s. You will find then as "Bardoulean" and several other transmogrifications :o
-
Hi diplodicus
Well I wouldn't say they are the same , but they are certainly related
I think the witnesses to the marriage could be the source of a solution
was there another Hart who married into the family-if John Hart was Elizabeths father, did he have other daughters?
Can anyone read the full name of the second witness? Ann Bardouleau Comfort Hart???
-
I think they are two people:
- Ann Bardouleau
Comfort Hart
-
Hi
The census returns would confirm it is the same man.
1841 census HO107 713 Bk2 folio 14
Regent Street Stepney Middlesex
Augustin Bardouleau 50 Greengrocer
Elizabeth Bardouleau 50
Augustin Bardouleau 14
Charles Bardouleau 12
Two sons not born in county
Adult ages, those over 15, usually rounded down to the nearest 5 on the 1841 census.
1851 census HO107 1553 folio 472
White Horse Lane Mile End Old Town Middlesex
Augustin Bardouleau 62 Head Married Fishmonger Bow Middlesex
Elizabeth Bardouleau 60 Wife Married St Luke's Middlesex
Augustin Bardouleau 22 Son Fishmonger St Saviour Surrey
Charles Bardouleau 25 Son Fishmonger St Saviour Surrey
Mary Avenell 62 Sister-in-law Widow Bermondsey Surrey
Mary Herbert widow married Edward Avenell 9th February 1824 Christ Church Southwark. Augustin Bardouleau was a witness as was Augustiana? Bardouleau.
Mary Hart spinster married James Andrew Herbert 1st November 1814 Christ Church Southwark. Elizabeth and Comfort Hart were witnesses. Comfort Hart was a witness to the 1816 marriage at the same church.
1861 census RG9 296 folio 94
4 White Horse Lane Mile End Old Town Middlesex
Augustin Bardouleau 73 Head Married Fishmonger Bow Middlesex
Charles Bardouleau 32 Son Married Fishmonger Southwark Surrey
Arletta? Bardouleau 26 Wife's son? Married Stepney Middlesex
Henry Bardouleau 8 months Son Stepney Middlesex
Plus 1 lodger
Charles H Bardouleau is with his 10 year old son Henry S on the 1871 census.
Regards
Valda
-
St Mary Magdelene Bermondsey
1779 Apr 25, Comfort, d/o Richard & Mary HART, Gluemaker, Langham, born Mar ??
St Lukes, Finsbury
1788 Jun 24, Elizabeth Rose, d/o Richard HART Gentlemans serv. & Mary, born May 20
Comfort HART married Michael MURPHY at Lambeth St Mary on 24 Jan 1819. Her signature is a match for the witness at the Bardouleau/Hart marriage in 1816.
Ian C
-
Hi
4th November 1781 St Mary Magdalen Bermondsey
Mary Hart parents Richard and Mary, Long Lane, ather's occupation glue? Maker
Regards
Valda
-
As always, my sincere thanks to you all. The Hart and Avenall connections are really useful but ...
(There's always a "but" ...)
Supposing they were TWINS?
One's a greengrocer and t'other is a fishmonger??
I don't know why I am being so cautious; it's not like me. I just find these two different names disturbing.
Malcolm
-
Just for the record, Charles Hart Bardouleau became a successful businessman owning six properties in White Horse Street, in what is now Stepney. His six children were still living and procreating in the area at the beginning of the 20th century.
-
Hi
The 1841-1861 censuses are the same family. On the 1841 census Augustin is a green grocer and in 1851 and 1861 a fishmonger.
In 1870 Charles Hart Bardouleau probated his father's estate (letters of administration). He skipped attempting the middle name on his marriage in 1854 and his father's burial. He may not have heard the middle name used very often and may have been unclear how it was spelt. Augustin wasn't around at that point to correct the spelling.
Does the Prerogative Court of Canterbury will for Rene or Renatus Fulgentius Jacobus Bardouleau of Lambeth probated in 1834 clarify further? He was 77 on burial but perhaps not a direct ancestor for Augustin.
Unlikely to be twins both with the first name Augustin.
Regards
Valda
-
Thanks Valda,
The reason I am so reluctant is that I would hate to have inadvertantly lopped off a Bardouleau branch . There is a history within the family of the Bardouleau name being changed; my own stepmother was known at school as "Annie Barlow" and I sometimes wonder about the "Bardoe" and "Bardol" families around London's East End and Northfleet.
My stepmother's family all stayed in Lambeth (south of the Thames). Her father was born in Lambeth workhouse! I have the original 1860 marriage certificate of Augustine Frederick Bardouleau (born 1829-ish) and Ann Burne. They married in Commercial Road, London E1 but lived and died back south of the Thames (he was a fishmonger!).
How do I obtain access to the records of the Prerogative Court of Canterbury? Rene is likely to be the first Bardouleau on English soil; family tradition is that the family fled "The Terror" following the revolution in France (although my stepmother had assumed they were Huguenots).
In France, Bardouleau's appear to originate from around Tours.
Many thanks,
Malcolm
-
PCC Wills are online at The National Archives. They have changed the website a bit in recent times and the old Documentsonline has disappeared, but if you go here
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/wills-and-probate.htm
Click on the first option Wills 1384-1858 and then enter the surname in the search box, up will come the details. If you have a credit card you can order the will online there and then and download it.
Ian C
-
Thank you Ian. It's not that I'm either mean or impecunious but this is just the spur I need to travel to Kew (for the first time).
I will let this thread know the content in due course.
Malcolm
-
Hi
If you have access to the Genealogist website you can view PCC wills there.
Regards
Valda
-
Do you have this record?
Stephen Rene Bardouleau, son of Rene, profession solicitor of Coombe Priory Wilts, occupying premises at Jeffrys Sq, St Mary Axe (by the gherkin) applied for freedom of the city of London 29 oct 1861. On ancestry
-
on the french version of ancestry, there is an image of the baptism of Rene Bordouleau 1630 (http://search.ancestry.fr/cgi-bin/sse.dll?gl=ROOT_CATEGORY&rank=1&new=1&MSAV=1&msT=1&gss=angs-d&gsfn=rene&gsfn_x=XO&gsln=bardouleau&gsln_x=NS_NP_NN&uidh=y36)
Naissance : 1630, Dampierre-Sur-Butonne,Poitou,,France
and a very extensive family tree
-
You will find (a very large) .pdf brochure of Coombe Priory here (http://residentialsearch.savills.co.uk/content/assets/search/255127/HQBrochure). It states that "... at the time of the French Revolution, a group of Carthusian monks expelled from France were invited by Lord Arundell of Wardour to live in the house ...".
-
A trail of circumstantial evidence connects Stephen to "my" Bardouleaus in Lambeth.
His daughters moved to London and one became a "Straw Bonnet Maker" which was the business of the oldest Lambeth Bardouleau.
-
The burial record is for Renne Bardouleau
at Lambeth St John the Evangelist
Birth: abt 1757
death: abt 1834
27 Jul 1834
at Oakley St where son Benedict Joseph Delarbe Bardouleau was living at the time of his marriage in 1842
Pallots shows marriage
Esther Apsley=Rene Bardouleau
1810 - Westminster St James
would it be the same one?
-
Hi
Unlikely as his wife was buried 6th March 1831 St John the Evangelist Lambeth
Augustina Bardouleau aged 73 Oakley Street.
Marriage 12th November 1782 St James Wetminster
Rene Bardouleau
Augustina Vasser
This website lists the known children. I can't vouch for its accuracy. But it lists a lot of Bardouleaus.
http://parkerbardouleau.familytreeguide.com/getperson.php?personID=I305&tree=T1&PHPSESSID=e52190aedf6a33b1485e0f943b2d1100
Regards
Valda
-
"Does the Prerogative Court of Canterbury will for Rene or Renatus Fulgentius Jacobus Bardouleau of Lambeth probated in 1834 clarify further? He was 77 on burial but perhaps not a direct ancestor for Augustin."
It is the probated will of René Bardouleau (Renatus Fulgentius Jacobus Bardouleau) who bequeaths his stuff to his five sons and one grandson.
" ...Rene Bardouleau,
Augustine Bardouleau,
George Bardouleau,
James Bardouleau,
Benoit Bardouleau (a.k.a. Benedict)
and my Grandson Brannan ..."
I'm not sure about the grandson's name..
In the final section, René Antoine Renatus Augustius Antonius Bardouleau was sworn as administrator.
To return to my original question, I am happy to assume that there was only one Augustine ehose middle names moved with the seasons :-\.
My thanks to you all.
-
Hi I am new to Roots chat…my husbands family are Woodcocks from Shaftesbury going back to the late 1770’s. His ancestor Mark Woodcock…born 1797 had a sister Mary…or Maria who married James T Bardouleau at Holy Trinity Shaftesbury. I can find the birth of three daughters the first died when she was 4. The other two girls were born a year apart 1823 and 1824 but both baptised on 30th June 1824 in Marnhull, Dorset. If anyone has any information they can share of their records for the Bardouleau Family I would be very happy to receive it. Mary appears to have died around 1831 and James remarried but died soon afterwards. Would love to know more about the Bardouleau family…how they came to be in Shaftesbury and the connection to Lambeth.