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Some Special Interests => Occupation Interests => Topic started by: Shropshire Lass on Thursday 26 May 05 23:49 BST (UK)
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Hello everyone
Can anyone read these for me?
I think the first one says '---------- of small arms at Tower' - presumably the Tower of London, but what's that first word? The writing is very faint which doesn't help.
Thomas Hubbard 34 Years born Birmingham, Warwickshire
1861 census:
RG9/291 Folio 22 Page 14
Mile End Old Town
By 1871 the family had moved to Devonport and I think this one says 'Armourer Sarjt. R.M.'
Do you agree, and does the R.M. stand for Royal Marines?
1871 census:
RG10/2126 Folio 68 Page 62
East Stonehouse
Thanks for any help. (I did try to post this earlier but I think it failed. If it has appeared somewhere, apologies for posting twice!)
Monica
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Sorry everyone
I don't seem to have managed to post the images. I'm going back to read the advice again and will try adding them later.
Monica
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See if this works!
Monica
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It hasn't worked!?!
What am I doing wrong?
Monica
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Hi,
I don't know what you did, but was able to find the 1861 enrty with your reference.
However, I don't have a clue what the first word is. Thought it might start with a V but then again......
Are there any millitary experts out there, it certainly does look like small arms, which I am assuming is guns or similar.
Sue
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Hi Monica
Looking at the other writing on the page I would guess "Receiver". Not sure if this makes sense. There was already an Armoury Museum at the Tower by this date so could it be a job related to the museum? This link mentions Armourers as well.
http://www.aim25.ac.uk/cgi-bin/frames/fulldesc?inst_id=70&coll_id=7244
Debbie ;)
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Hi Monica,
Here you go,I've posted it for you :)
I'm stumped to be honest,the one thought that won't budge is that the first word might be 'Trainer' of small arms at the Tower :-\
Anyone one else care to have a crack at it?
Regards,Mick ;)
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Actually,it looks like Viewer ???
Mick ;)
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I thought it was Viewer too until I realised the ie is an ei if you see what I mean ???
I think RM is probably Royal Marines, seems to fit but I'm surprised if he switched from presumably land based in the Tower to Navy. STill, I know nothing about it so actually havn't a clue. ;D
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Hi Gardener,
I can see what you mean about the e and i,so it's probably not viewer (which did sound a bit odd,I must admit!)
Not sure if this is relevent or not, but on the 1861 census in question, the Parliamentary Borough looks to be Tower Hamlets (would that be right for Stepney?),maybe this is in some way connected to the 'Tower' in the occupation.
Hmmmm......I'm clutching at straws a bit with this one :-\
Mick ;)
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Yeoman of Small Arms?
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Keeper of small arms at Tower ?
Jailer of small arms at Tower ?
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Wondering if it could be a mis-spelling of Reever - a type of law officer - aka Sherriff? Also known as a Shriever? ???
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Hi,
Looks like viewer spelt veiwer to me. Googled that as an ocupation and came up with two refs from 1891 census for Warwickshire but no info on what such a person might do. ;) Jan
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Could it be a shortened version of reviewer?
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http://rmhh.co.uk/occup/
gives a viewer as a manager in the mines. Maybe it was used similarly in other occupations ??? :-\ Jan
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Thanks to you all
What a variety of suggestions! I'll work on those to see if I can make any connections.
My husband wondered if it might be some weird historical title, perhaps French-based. We saw a programme about the Tower of London and they have kept lots of old titles.
Thanks again - particularly for posting the image for me.
Monica
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Hi Monica
It might be worth contacting
The Library, Royal Armouries, HM Tower of London
London
EC3N 4AB
England
Tel: 020 7480 6358 x
Fax: 020 7480 2922
Email: enquiries@armouries.org.uk
Website: http://www.armouries.org.uk
Judging by the info described here - they should be able to help! :)
http://www.aim25.ac.uk/cgi-bin/search2?coll_id=7244&inst_id=70
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Hi Nigel
Thanks for the link. I've been googling lots of combination of words trying to find a site like this - but I didn't get this one up.
If I get a definite answer, I'll let everyone know.
Monica
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Re Jan's message of 27 May: Warwickshire may be relevant as the British Small Arms factory was in Birmingham. My 2x great grandfather was a gunsmith in London in 1861, them moved to Aston in Birmingham which is near the BSA factory. I assume he worked at the Royal Small Arms factory in Enfield as his daughter was born in that borough in 1861.
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Hi jmccarthy
Thomas was my husband's great, great grandfather. He started life in Birmingham and then after working in London and Devon ended up back in Birmingham, working as a gunsmith (1881 census). There's a good chance that he also worked at the BSA factory.
Thanks for the info.
Monica
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hello monica,i think the word you may be looking for is reviewer of small arms,it was his job to look after the stands of arms in the armoury,the original armoury had burnt down in 1841,destroying a 150,000 stands of arms,it used to form part of the tower on the north side east of st.peters chapel,it was known as the "great armoury" or the storehouse,the heavy ordnance like cannon and artillery pieces would come under heavy armaments,hes basically an armourer,the RM is like you said,its royal marines,marines as well as soldiers served at the tower,mack
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I believe it could be 'viewer'. Who knows whether the person making the entry could spell or, had adequate knowledge of the English Language. Lots of people put 'i' before 'e' or the reverse!
Within engineering and other trades 'viewer' is a job in itself, checking the quality of the item being 'viewed'
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Hi Davy Boy and manmack
Thanks for your contributions.
I have emailed the Tower of London but haven't had a reply yet. I hope they don't just ignore it.
Monica
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If all else fails why not contact the Royal Armouries?
website and just some of the contact points at its website are listed below.
http://www.royalarmouries.org/extsite/view.jsp?sectionId=82Royal Armouries
H M Tower of London
London
EC3N 4AB
UK
The Royal Armouries is always happy to hear from you. To help you contact the right people, a list of useful numbers and email addresses are given below.
Please note that, because of the amount of spam these addresses are currently attracting, some genuine enquiries might be deleted. If you have not received a reply within fourteen days, please contact us again.
GENERAL ENQUIRIES
Leeds
Royal Armouries
Armouries Drive
LEEDS
LS10 1LT
24 hour info line: +44 (0)8700 344 344
Information desk: +44 (0)113 220 1916
E-mail: raenquiries@gmail.com
Tower of London
Royal Armouries
H M Tower of London
LONDON
EC3N 4AB
Tel: +44 (0)20 7480 6358
Fax: +44 (0)20 7488 0486
Fort Nelson
Royal Armouries
Fort Nelson
Portsdown Hill Road
FAREHAM
PO17 6AN
24 hour info line: +44 (0)1329 822 985
Information desk: +44 (0)1329 233 734
Fax: +44 (0)1329 822 092
E-mail: fnenquiries@armouries.org.uk
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Thanks for the continuing replies to my query.
I got a lovely reply to my email to the Royal Armoury. They have been trying (unsuccessfully) to open my attachment with the mystery word on it which was why they hadn't replied earlier. I'm going to send it through the post as I can't work out why my document won't open.
In the meantime, I am becoming convinced that the suggestions of a mis-spelled Viewer are correct. I trawled through pages and pages of the same handwriting until I finally found another capital V (thank goodness someone had a visitor on census night!) and I'm sure it's the same. I'll ask the Armoury to confirm it but I think that is the answer.
Incidentally, Thomas Hubbard was listed as a Gunsmith's Finisher in the 1861 at age 24 so guns were obviously a central part of his life from early on.
Thanks to all who have offered advice and help.
Monica
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Gunsmiths and gun makers:
I posted a help request in a recent issue of Practical Family History. The reply was helpful and included a recommendation to consult Stan Cook:
< genealogy376-gunmakers@yahoo.co.uk >. Stan was incredibly helpful; he has built up a vast knowledge of gun makers and their places and traditions of work over the years and is well worth consulting if anyone has this occupation in ther family tree.
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Monica,
I'm glad you are having some success with your search!
Before you close this chapter you may wish to go to the Birmingham Gun Museum. On that site they will give you some further information on what you are looking for.
David