RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Fermanagh => Topic started by: donkenny on Saturday 23 January 10 20:05 GMT (UK)
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My Kenny family was native to Co. Fermanagh. They immigrated to Gatineau, Quebec, Canada in 1830, where they settled in Aylmer and Chelsea. They were very Wesleyan-Methodist. All (except Alice) married in Canada.
No Irish townland or parish is known.
Mother: Alice, b. ca.1779
Father: nothing known (it doesn't appear that he made it to Canada)
Son: Robert, b. 1808
Son: Ralph, b. 1810
Son: John, b. ca. 1821
Daughter: Letitia, b. 1818
Other family members, if any, unknown.
I would like to identify Alice’s husband, and any other family members. Their townland or parish is also of great interest. Anything prior to 1830 would be wonderful.
I am also going the DNA route and have found two “cousins”. We believe we are related, but more substantial information is needed.
Thank you for your consideration of this message.
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I'm not familiar with the surname Kenny at all. Seems to be rare-ish surname and there are only 10 people listed with Kenny surname in the Fermanagh telephone book.
Id start by looking in the following areas AGHALURCHER, AGHAVEA, KINAWLEY, MAGHERACROSS, ROSSORRY, DERRYBRUSK.
Have you tried the searching the passenger logs?
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KDDA:
Thank you for the advice.
The name is rare and I had hoped that this would be to my advantage, but no luck so far.
I have researched some St. Lawrence River passenger records, but no luck. Their records are lacking in detail anyway. Not like the ocean vessels. I'll focus on passenger lists for ca. 1830.
I'm sure the family came from Fermanagh as this county is inscribed on three of their cemetery stones.
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Hi, the name in Fermanagh and in Ireland is not that rare. There were Kenny's from Brookeborough in the mid 19th century that were Methodists. Some of their relatives will probably be found in the Aghavea Church of Ireland Parish records (and perhaps some in the Aghalurcher Parish records). The family are recorded in the Brookeborough/Lisnaskea area from at least the 1780's.
The Kenny families in this area were under the Brooke landlords. There are many records in the Public Records Office in Belfast that will have information about them.
The Kenny's I am aware of are of Thomas and William Kenny in the 'Knocks' townland (between Brookborough and Lisnaskea in the late 18th century. They were brothers.
Hope that helps.
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Garvary:
A Big Thank You for this very valuable information. We now have some direction to take, something previously unavailable. I'll get back to this chat forum as soon as we can line up our little bits of info with yours. Very much appreciated!
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hi all my surname is kenny my kennys came over to north shields sometime in the 1850s and were catholics and i think they were from the south part of ireland.
neil
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Hi, did a little more searching around for you Donles. I think I may have your relatives.
There is Thomas and Alice Kenny with a baptism record (not sure if it is Ahgavea or Aghalurcher) in September 1817 for Letty (pet name for Letitia). The baptism record stated that they lived in the townland of Tattinbar, around Brookeborough, Co Fermanagh. I haven't seen any other records for the other children you mentioned.
There was at least one other Kenny family, George & Margaret living in Tattinbar at the same time having children also. The family were probably tenant farmers like the other Kenny families in the area.
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One further mote. If you go onto Google maps and put in Rosslea, Co Fermanagh you will clearly see Tattinbar shown a little south/west of it. It is a country area, an irish townland. I originally thought it was nearer Brookeborough or Lisnaskea but obviously not. It is very close to the border with the Rep. of Ireland. The parishes of Aghavea and Aghalurcher generally cover this area (not sure of parish boundaries).
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Hi Neil:
Your Kenny’s may have left at the end of the Great Famine of 1845 – 1852. My understanding is that Irish Catholics were very poorly treated, within a system that was bad for nearly everyone.
My take is that, yes, there would be mostly Catholic Kenny’s in the south part of Ireland, many more Kenny’s than would be found in Northern Ireland.
Here in Eastern Ontario and Western Quebec, there are few with the surname Kenny. In the Ottawa, Ontario area, there is a well documented Catholic Kenny family from Ireland (John Emmett Kenny has the internet site), and another group of Anglican Kenny’s. Our Kenny’s were the third group, Wesleyan-Methodist, and across the Ottawa River in Quebec.
Thank you.
Don.
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thanks don i did hear that some catholics coverted so they could get jobs with english land owners .i all ways thought they came over because of the famine.this branch i would love to get further because its my name ive done a lot more on my mams side because of parish records the reason i think my kennys were catholics is because my dad was a catholic,.
neil
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Hi Garvary:
This is wonderful stuff! I think probably that you have found my Fermanagh Kenny’s.
Two of Ralph Kenny’s son’s were named Thomas and George W. and a daughter was named Letitia. This was the second of three Letitia’s, the third being my Aunt Lettie.
The Letty that you found is buried in Sombra County, in S-W Ontario. We have been going on the belief that she was born in 1818, not 1817. (This will be something to re-check closely, but one year does not mean that it is a different person, of course.)
I am working with Bill Kenny, Prestwick, Scotland, as we are DNA cousins, and feel that there is a good chance that he is closely connected here as well.
We will be organizing, planning our next moves, and getting back to you sometime soon.
With great appreciation, I thank you.
Don.
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Hi Garvary:
There are two “Tattinbarr” place names. The first is where you originally had it placed, in the area in which we are most interested, being east of Maguiresbridge and just north of Knocks. The second one is a little south of Rosslea, near the border, as you pointed out.
I came across a record (using Google chrome) for:
Thomas Kenny, born Aughavin, Fermanagh. He served in the Royal Artillery, and was discharged at age 36. His military record covers the period 1796 to 1814, a period of 18 years. I assume he joined at age 18, which would make his birth year 1778, and one year older than Alice.
I could not find “Aughavin” at first try, but will give it another go. There was no other information on line, but I feel this is certainly another line of inquiry worth pursuing.
Thanks again,
Don.
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Could it possibly be AUGHRIN as no Aughavin comes up in a search!.
AUGHRIN is on thw Sligo road and located about 1.5km from the Fermanagh/Leitrim border.
The 2003/4 Infodisk shows no Kenny at Aughrin.
Mike.
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Hi Donles, this is probably a mispelling of Aghavea which would cover the Maguiresbridge to Lisnaskea area. I don't know of any Kenny's of this branch that were on the Sligo Road side of Enniskillen at that time.
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My own interest in the Kenny name in Fermanagh is to discover its origins. It is a Gaelic name in general but has had several branches or septs that had their name anglicised to 'Kenny'. It is a name in Galway, Donegal, Clare and in Down. The Fermanagh clan are difficult to work out. There is no obvious root of the family in Fermanagh (I think). My suggestions on their origins are:
1. The are an native Fermanagh family but were so small and insignificant they were not recorded. (see Livingston's History of Fermanagh). The ancient bardic Breslin family history does mention Kenny's as relations.
2. They are a part of the Fermanagh 'McCanny' or 'Canny' family. They are native to Fermanagh. It was common for names to change spelling slightly or drop 'Mc' or 'O' of necessary. If there was a change of religion from Catholic to Protestant this also might happen.
3. Since they are near the border with Monaghan they may be 'McKenna' or 'Kenna' stock. The name McKenna in Irish is MacCionaoith. Kenny in Irish is O'Cionaoith. Some Kenny surnames have differing Irish roots.
4. They may be a family that came from Donegal which have Kenny as a native family name. This may be supported in that these Kenny's worked for the landed English family and landowners the Brooke's. This family owned estates in Donegal and Fermanagh and it would not be uncommon for landowners to offer work and tenancy in their other estates. The Brooke's owned land in North Donegal were many Kenny's came from.
5. They may have completely different origin such as in Kenna, Kenney, Kinney etc. I don't think the name in this case has an English origin as with some of the Galway Kenny's.
That's my thoughts anyway. No proof I'm afraid, just conjecture having done some study.
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Methodism in the 19th Century was probably better represented in Fermanagh than in other Northern or Ulster counties. This was because the Church of Ireland (Anglican) was stronger here than in other northern counties were Presbyterianism had a strong representation among Protestants. John Wesley was an Anglican priest and found greater favour for his teaching with people who were Anglican to begin with. He visted Fermanagh several times in the 18th century (but not always well received). Methodism almost became the the 'evangelical' wing of Anglicanism until its break from that church. Many Fermanagh Protestants who were pious were attracted to its small group meetings, its prayer and its fervour. Obviously some Kenny folk were religious and pious people who left the Church of Ireland in favour of this church. In Fermanagh today Methodistm Free Methodism and Independant Methodism are still well represented.
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hi garvary this is a intresting post on the kenny name.
thanks neil
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Saddles:
Thank you for the “Aughrim” suggestion. There is also an “Aghalun” place name on route A4 about 3km NE of Maguiresbridge. And of course, Garvary’s suggestion of “Aghavea” fits our pattern very well.
I’m linguistically challenged when it comes to Irish names, so I’m particularly pleased to have all this help. Some of my McDiarmid ancestors spoke Gaelic as their first language, but this talent did not follow down to me. Here in Eastern Ontario, our last first language Gaelic speakers died off about 20 years ago.
Don.
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Hi Garvary:
It has taken me a while to get some of the following together.
Neil said it best. Yours is an interesting post on the Kenny name. Plus, it is very helpful to know what everyone’s objectives are, as you help us all along.
1: I also early on found the Breslin family history note that mention’s Kenny's as relations, and their possible arrival with that “clan”. It was probably from the same source.
2: Methodism was very much a part of my grandfather’s, and great-grandfather’s lives. They were certainly very evangelical to say the least. I’m sure you have hit on it when you say they “… were pious (and) were attracted to its small group meetings, its prayer and its fervour.”
3: Bill Kenny’s comments on the Kenny surname can be found by googling the “Kenny Surname by William Little Kenny”.
4: The Inishmore riots occurred in 1824. This started due to a brawl between two men, Kenny, a Protestant and Lunney, a Catholic. The fight escalated and got very ugly, from the accounts that I have read. (I have a hard time believing that this Kenny would be an ancestor of mine!)
5: Thomas Kenny, Royal Artilleryman:
I have asked the UK National Archives for a copy of Thomas Kenny’s military records, covering the period 1796 to 1814. I’m hopeful that this will verify that we have the right person, and if the records are what I think they are, they should establish who Thomas’ parents were, and put more of the puzzle together. I’ll report here on the results, but it will likely take several months.
6: One of the family charts we have, has this entry: “KENNY MacKenzie Clan, Iona Scotland Moved to Central Ireland 1511.” This entry has no backup of any kind, and may just be someone’s guess, although it had to come from somewhere. The chart then jumps to 1830, a 319 year gap.
So that’s it for now.
Don.
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I've just come across this discussion and might have some reinforcing details to add. My grandmother was a Kenny, great-grand daughter of Robert Kenny who died in Aylmer, Quebec (now part of Gatineau, the twin city of Ottawa, Ontario) in 1896 after a long and prosperous career as a local businessman (and prominent Methodist layman). He is buried in the Bellevue cemetary in Gatineau, along with Alice, who died in 1854 in Aylmer. Robert and his wife Elizabeth Grimes had nine children and numerous descendants, many of them still in the Ottawa/Gatineau area, including one in the Canadian Senate.
All the records I have seen from this corner of the family have Robert and Alice coming from Maguiresbridge, County Fermanagh, although no-one has been successful in being more precise than that. The information in these postings certainly fits.
I have a letter from my grandmother's brother who writes: "The forerunner, Robert Kenny, came to Canada in 1829 and visited with two uncles near Lake Erie; this was in the period of the Col. Talbot Irish settlement in that area, but he came to rest at Aylmer East, Quebec. He did carpenter work, finally took up land, married Elizabeth Grimes from Vermont, built a log cabin, cleared land, built a stone house. His father died in Ireland and Robert sent for his mother, his sister and two brothers (about 1852). Their descendants seem to be lost in the rush". I hope this helps!
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A footnote: a small piece of evidence in support of the proposition that Thomas was Alice's husband is that Robert named his second son Thomas (b. 1837). His oldest son was William (my ancestor - b. 1835), named after his maternal grandfather, although one of the posts suggests that the elder Thomas may have had a brother William as well. If it offers any clues, the other children were named Rachel (b. 1840), Richard (1841) , Edwy (1843), Miriam (1844), Jane (1847), Elizabeth (1850) and Marietta (1857!)
One thing that raises a question in my mind that needs exploring is my great-uncle's statement that Alice and Robert's siblings came to Canada in about 1852 after her husband died. By then, Robert was well-established and able to support her/them, but the siblings would have been in their 30s and presumably with families of their own. He isn't precise about when Alice's husband died, although the suggestion is that his death was what precipitated her move to Canada, to live out her old age with her eldest son. So that may well have been the timing -- or the date in his letter (written in 1993 when he was in his 90s) may have been a typo (1832?) Or some of the siblings came earlier...
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i wish this was my kenny,s but they not
neil
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Hi Neil:
You may not have found a close connection on our Kenny lines, but the name is enough to qualify you as far as I am concerned.
Thank you for your interest and contributions, but more importantly, please continue as we move along. Perhaps there will be a closer connection than we see right now.
Don.
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Hi dcgb:
This is wonderful news. We are definitely the same family.
I will put together a better reply later tonight, addressing the items in your messages, along with additional comments on my findings.
Until later.
Don.
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hi don i think my kennys came from southern ireland they were catholics.they came over to north shields in the 1870s from the north shields time i know a lot this is my dads branch.
neil
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Hi Again, dcgb, and other Roots Chatters:
I’m certainly glad you came across this chat. This has all been extremely rewarding, due to the website format, and the kind folks who have given their time and expertise for our benefit. You have added a lot of information that I was unaware of.
My great-grandfather is Ralph, Robert’s brother. Your first paragraph parallels my data.
Robert’s wife, I have as having been born in Hull Township (Aylmer), but her father, William was born in New Hampshire, and her mother, Rachel Benedict, was born in Vermont. A small point. I have 11 children, which includes Mary (1852) and a second Edwy (1843) These two likely died very young.
I have visited Tim Kenny, Buckingham (Gatineau) Quebec who is a Robert Kenny descendant. Tim gave me a booklet on the Robert Kenny line, which I can forward if you can supply a safe mailing address.
Garvary has Tattinbar(r) as the townland of our Kennys. It is 4-5 km E-SE of Maguiresbridge, and might have been considered the closest town of significance. I would love to have a copy of the letter you have from your grandmother’s brother. This is mostly new info to me. I have information on Robert’s successful lumbering and farming efforts, mostly taken from Anson Gard’s ‘Pioneers Of The Upper Ottawa and Humors of the Valley’ (1906).
Gard reports that Robert ‘came from Ireland to Aylmer in 1830.’ Tim Kenny reports that the rest of the family came later. The first Canadian census in 1842 has part of the family in Robert’s home in Aylmer and the rest in Ralph’s home in Chelsea, Quebec. I can account for Ralph’ descendants (that is me) and Letitia’s. Her info is at: http://www.heyland.ca/individual.php?pid=I80&ged=heypub22102005.ged. John died young, and I know little at this time.
Ralph’s third son is named Thomas (1858 – 1879).
William Walton Kenny (1835 – 1909) died in Manitoba. Some descendents moved on to California.
Robert and all siblings married in Canada, so 1832 sounds like it might be the right year for the balance of the family.
I am working to get Thomas Kenny’s Royal Artillery records from the British National Archives. There have been setbacks, so I am still a long way from being successful.
So, that is about it for now.
Don.
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Hi Everyone:
I viewed the discharge papers of Thomas Kenny, Aughavia, Fermanagh who served in the Royal Artillery from 1796 to 1814 and George Kenny, Aughavea, Fermanagh, who served with the 27th Foot from 1819 to 1837.
This information is available on www.findmypast.co.uk as pay per view.
The papers dealt with their discharges only. The documents did not list next of kin or anything that might assist our genealogy search. (My uncle’s WWI Canadian service documentation consisted of 48 pages, and included next of kin information. This is what I was hoping for, but of course things change in a hundred years!)
Both Thomas and George were discharged due to chronic rheumatism (something carried down to this descendant as well), plus general wear and tear.
Anyway, my Rootschat inquiry this summer produced wonderful results. Please be assured that all your considerable efforts have been greatly appreciated.
I would like to contact dcgb if at all possible. I’m sure there is a lot of information you have that I would like to see, and I have a lot of data that might interest you?
Best regards to all,
Don.
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Hi Don and our newly identified family members!
Don - I seem to have lost your e-mail address!
I have been really interested to see all comments. For what it is worth my "tuppence worth" is as follows:
My known ancestor William Kenny was born between 1831 and 1833 - family lore states that we were from Fermanagh (Enniskillen is usually cited - but given that the area is relatively unkown to Scots I have a feeling that when asked this was probably stated since most people have heard of this town).
William was a "journeyman shoemaker" and he first appears when he is married in Ayr, Scotland, in 1857. He was married to a Scots girl (Irish parentage) in the Trinity Church in Ayr - this was Anglican. His parents are stated as being William (a Tailor to trade - must have been born around 1800-1810??????) and Alice (maiden surname Kenny too??? - I find this doubtful - and more probable that William did not know his mother's surname???). Given Don's comments about his known family Wesleyan-Methodist roots - and the fact that we share the same male DNA - I am given to think that William was probably of the same persuasion - and that his wife perhaps swung him back to the "established church" (albeit the Irish established church - since Ayr is Presbyterian by majority).
William established himself in Scotland and had 12 children - Robert, Alice, Helen, Mary, William, John, McCandlish, Sarah, Janet, Elizabeth, Sarah (yes - another Sarah!) and James.
William's father was dead in 1857 and I am inclined to think that it is doubtful that he would simply have left his mother fend for herself following his father's death (the date being unknown at present - was he a child? was he in adulthood?)? This makes me think that he had other siblings. Most likely a "big brother" (given the Irish/Scots "naming system" - probably a Robert!) - since it is more common for junior family members to go out into the world "alone".
I am further inclined to think that "my" Alice either remarried (and took another name) or that she died between 1857 (her son's marriage) and 1864 (beleive this is when the deaths were officialy recorded from??? (may be incorrect here!).......or that she emigrated (since all the Alice Kenny death certificates which would put her in the correct age bracket were either unrelated OR died in workhouses - I cannot imagine that her son would let her die in this manner - surely he would have brought her to Scotland???????).....
William is "missing" from several later Scottish census polls - with his younger siblings (the older ones being married etc etc) - and then he reappears - I like to think that he may have been visiting family in Fermanagh at these times (since ALL people's in the house at time of census were recorded).
Given that Don and I are related genetically it would be great if any Kenny's who remain in the area would undertake a DNA test and if they had further info that would be spectacular!
I feel we are so so close - since there is no way that we are not linked - The Thomas and William in "Brooke's deeds" are brothers and so irrespective of the few "missing links" we must be their descendants.
I asked after Wesleyan-Methodist records for the area but the search proved "blank". I have the Parish information from PRONI and will have a look through to see if I can identify anyone in the CoI records. I will advise all parties should I find anything.
I have thought about sending letters to Kenny's in the area and taking a "shot in the dark".....using addresses from local directories...might be worth a little effort on this front..........but might be a little intrusive of people's privacy - so I will consider the morality of that potential action!
Best Regards
Billy
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.........oh...................a further note to Garvary!
You are interested in the Kenny surname in general..and your numerously cited points are ALL correct...making it so difficult to establish which Kenny's everyone with the surname is descended from....a cause of frustration!
Don and I also share the same DNA (a few "steps out" - but sharing a "common ancestor") as a family bearing the surnames O'Rourke and Roarc........
......given the "relative" geography of the Fermanagh border to Leitrim (I believe the O'Rourke's were "Princes of Leitrim") I think there is a possiblity that we tend to be of the Gaelic persuasion (and not the English/Norman).................and that we may be a small family group whose origin has been one located in the conjectural homelands of Roscommon and Galway ("Chiefs of Muintir Kenny").....taking a few centuries to move North!
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.....or that these O'Rourke's are actually Kenny's.........now there's a story!
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Hi Billy and all:
It is really great to hear from you. This chat is not quite over yet, obviously.
My email address will be sent via Roots Chat’s personal mail. My previous address was lost when Canada.Com abandoned us.
In Canada, at least, we have no hesitation in sending letters and making telephone cold calls in hopes of finding ancestral info. I think a little diplomacy is all that is needed (and keeping time zones in mind).
‘dcgb’ contacted me a little later on. It turns out that he only lives about an hour away from here (Ottawa, Ontario). I hope to get a copy of his grandmothers brother’s letter. These things take time.
I’ve got a few bits to add, as follows:
Fermanagh (Brooke) Deeds
D998/26/60 : 3 Oct. 1773 Lease from Arthur Brooke, Colebrooke, Co. Fermanagh, to Wm Kenny, Tattinbarr, Co. Fermanagh, of one-third of the lands of Tattinbarr, Co. Fermanagh, for the lives of Wm Kenny, James Kenny and Edward Kenny, at a rent of £8 together with 12 pence per pound Receivers fees, eight days work of man and horse and eight fat hens or tenpence in lieu of each hen.
D998/26/61 : 3 Oct. 1773 Lease from Arthur Brooke, Colebrooke, Co. Fermanagh, to Thomas Kenny, Tattinbarr, Co. Fermanagh, of one-third of the lands of Tattinbarr, Co. Fermanagh, for the lives of Thomas Kenny, Thomas Kenny and John Kenny, at a rent of £8 10s. 0d. together with 12 pence per pound Receivers fees, eight days work of man and horse and eight fat hens or tenpence in lieu of each days work and fourpence in lieu of each hen.
D998/26/434 : 10 Aug. 1824 Lease from Henry Brooke, Colebrooke, Co. Fermanagh, to George Kenny, Tattinbarr, Co. Fermanagh, of 12a. 2r. 26p. of Tattinbarr, Co. Fermanagh, for the lives of John Kenny and Wm Kenny: (1) Reserves right to make a road; (2) Rent £6 6s. 7d.; (3) Three days work of man and horse and three hens or fifteen pence in lieu of each days work and sixpence in lieu of each hen; and, (4) Corn, etc, to be ground at mill of Henry Brooke, payment for not doing so £5.
Garvary reports that William and Thomas are brothers.
The second lease lists two Thomas Kenny’s, who I assume were father and son. Each generation at that time would be around 30 years apart. Therefore Thomas senior would be roughly 50 years old, and the son roughly 20.
Neither would be the husband of my Alice, as Alice was born around 1779, and her husband who we assume to be a Royal Artilleryman, would have been born around 1778. A prime age for joining the military would be 18 – 20. Thomas served 18 years, retiring from the service at age 36 – 38, again a reasonable span of service for the lucky ones.
My conclusion is that we have to have 3 Thomas’s, the first born about 1725 and the third dying about 1825-30?
William Kenny might be an ancestor of Billy Kenny of Prestwick, Scotland. Billy is my DNA cousin.
George is at least the next generation, and I guess could be a son of Thomas, but more likely William, as that branch appears to have stayed in the UK.
William Kenny – papist
PRONI Site Search (proni.gov.uk) – 1766 Religious Census
I only found the following, but the Religion entry is HUGE!
Index : 1766 Religious Census
Surname : Kenny
Forename : William
Townland :
Parish : Kinawley
County : Fermanagh
Religion : Papist
Number in Family :
Original Documents : The original documents referred to in this index DO NOT exist. No further information, other than that recorded above, has survived.
William could be a member of my line. His location is within 12 miles of my g-g-grandfather’s townland. Plus, William is a common first name in our Kenny lines.
This is the first documentation that potentially indicates our Kenny line was once Roman Catholic. This one item opens up whole new avenues for further exploration.
So Neil, we may yet establish a closer connection than either of us originally thought!
West Virginia. Mary Jane Kenny
Mary Jane Kenny appears to have married William Moneypenny at Maguire’s Bridge in County Fermanagh sometime after 1790. Maguire’s Bridge is only several miles from Tattenbarr, our Kenny Townland.
William and Mary Jane eventually settled in central West Virginia. There were a number of Fermanagh families who preceded or followed them to W.Va. at about the same time.
Given the circumstantial evidence, it seems quite possible that she is closely connected to our line.
I have to send this summary in a separate reply, due to the word limit in Rootschat.
Dr. Tyrone Bowes - Surname Association Site
I very recently contacted Dr Tyrone Bowes. He uses our 37 maker DNA to help determine the who and where of our ancestors. The web site is: ‘http://www.irishorigenes.com’. We are still working at getting started, and if we can make any progress, I’ll report back to you all.
Many thanks,
Don.
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Mary Jane Kenny
Irish Origin of the Moneypenny & Kenny Families of W. Va
by David Armstrong, 201 Graham St, Elkins, WV, 26241
Moderator Note: cut & paste details removed- please see link to view same information:
http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/HCPD/2003-01/1041883705
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Hi aghadowey:
I still have a lot to learn here. Your presentation solution is so much better than mine.
Thank you.
Don.
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Hi everyone!
Plan of attack as follows:
1) I will start to annoy the Fermanagh Kenny's as previously cited.....
2) I will send a letter to Viscount Brookeborough and ask if any recorded exist within his noted family which may provide additional information for genealogy purposes
www.number10.gov.uk/news/lord-lieutenant-county-fermanagh/
3) never thought to look at any Catholic records - so will ascertain if any records exist for the general area for any Kenny's recorded
4) my ancestors were all militia men - indicating a strong military background - and all subsequent descendants served in WWI and WWII - I remember noting military service for 2 Kenny's in Co. Leitrim around the time of Don's research too (so will revisit that one)
5) attached is an image of my ggg grandfather (Robert Kenny born 1864) - my gggrandfather (William Kenny born 1884) is standing behind him - for general interest
Hope to have some results soon!
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Hello Gentlemen,
Hopefully, I am not hijacking this thread and what I am posting is not relevant but I have some Kenny's in my ancestry and thought I'd see if my information relates to yours or maybe our paths cross.
Dorina Kenny- my grandmother (married Gibbs)
Great Grandparents
Stephen Kenny (Oct 6, 1871 to 1954)
Elizabeth Hebert (B:1878-1964)
Married: April 1898
Great Great Grandparents
John Kenny (b:1836)
Anne Theriault (Nov 13, 1833)
Isaie Hebert
Catherine Pelletier
****from this point is where I am not sure if it is correct***
Great Great Great Grandparents
Mark Kenney/Kenny Sr.- 1805 or 1815
Great Great Great Great Grandparents
William Kenny (B:1748, D:1852)
I may be in the wrong spot but thought I'd give it a shot.
jazznblues
Marc
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Hi Marc:
Thank you for the posting. I'm sure glad you decided to 'give it a shot'.
Our paths do cross in the Carleton (Ottawa) Ontario area, but not likely in New Brunswick. Some years ago we were given a package that documented a Kenny family in the Goulbourn, Ontario area, and one of the names was Mark Kenny.
At that time I did not see any close connection to this Kenny family. Now, I’m not so sure.
Your contribution is wonderful stuff, and I will be digging out the details and getting back to the group after I review my documents.
I used the ‘Brideau Gibbs Kenny’ Family Tree on Ancestory.com to pinpoint your Kenny line and locations.
Until a little later,
Don.
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Hi Don,
Thanks for looking into it. I've been working on my genealogy for about a year or so now and I'm hooked. I've been getting bits and pieces but once I get to the 3rd or 4th generation there is less and less information to "prove" that what I have is correct. But of course that is not uncommon. The Kenny line is very interesting.
The Mark Kenny angle is a bit confusing. I did find one site that someone had a brief writeup on the Kenny's and said that he married Elizabeth Hand but also he had a 2nd marriage to a woman with the surname "Reddy" or something like that (Ready?). Perhaps he had a child with the Reddy woman.
The Brideau/Gibbs/Kenny family tree is definetely the one to use. I should have most things updated but gathering "the proof" is still a work in progress.
I am visiting my grandmother Dorina Gibbs (Kenny) this weekend and will be asking her for more information. We had a long chat the last time I spent the weekend there but we spoke more about her siblings. She is the last one still living (92 yrs old) from her family. I am bringing documents of her father (Stephen) such as marriage and death certificate and I am hoping she has something tucked away that she can share.
Marc
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Hi Marc and all:
I found the William Kenny (Kilkenny Co, Ireland – Anglican) documentation I received in 2001. It has an address stamp as follows:
(*) Moderator Note: name, address and telephone number of person removed in accordance with Rootscht policy. Please do not post such details
Mark Kenny married, first a Miss Reddy, then Elizabeth Hand. There were 2 sons and a daughter (Ann) by the first marriage. The second marriage produced 8 children, Mark, Wm, James, Thomas, Robert, Sarah, Jane and Lizzie.
I did not see any reference to New Brunswick, but it might be there.
The whole package is very interesting. For example, Mark Kenny (1844-1925) married Olivia Healey (1849-1926), a great granddaughter of Lady Ann Talbot, sister of Sir John Talbot, Nenagh, Tipperary, Ireland. Lady Ann eloped with Sir John’s overseer.
Send me a safe mailing address via Rootschat’s personal message system, and I will copy you. There are 17 full 8 ½ x 14 pages with charts and notes.
If any other Kenny family Roots Chatter would like this documentation, I would be pleased to mail it to you under the same conditions, as getting this all on the internet could take me years.
Don.
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Thank you Don! I will drop you a private message.
The Mark Kenny connection in my family tree is the point where I am not convinced on. Again hopefully this weekend I can find more information from my grandmother. It would seem Elizabeth Hand is not the mother of John Kenny so I wonder if Miss Reddy is the mother since she had 2 sons.
Marc
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Hi friends, back after a long absence.
Interesting to read MacCionnaoith's post about a Kenny family business.
My grandfather James Kenny, born 1909 was a shoemaker and this was a family business. He reportedly went to 9 different schools in Fermanagh (and other counties) as his father William travelled with the family as a journeyman shoemaker (though he would turn his hand to any leatherwork). My uncle Jim Kenny carried on the business in Enniskillen until the 1980's in his shoe repair shop in Enniskillen.
With regard to religion Kenny families in the Brookeborough/Maguiresbridge area were members of Church of Ireland and Methodist Churches and there would have been some interchangeability. With regard to a Catholic connection in Fermanagh I have no doubt there was a cross over here sometime in the 1700's or earlier in this family. It is pertinent to remember that the Brooke family the local large landowners were quite anti Catholic and employment by them may have been religion conditional. Added to this was the fact that intermarriage was not unknown so that families sometimes changed religion. Also, the Methodist evangelical missions in late 17th and early 18th century Ireland had many Catholic converts. There are Catholic Kennys to be found in Fermanagh who never were Protestants.
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Sorry ... the Methodist evangelists were active in the late 18th and early 19th centuries in Fermanagh.
I am myself a Kenny from Fermanagh now living in Galway.
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I found further information on my Kenny line. I've upated it below:
Dorina Kenny- my grandmother (married Alfred Gibbs)
Great Grandparents
Stephen Kenny (Oct 6, 1871 to 1954)
Elizabeth Hebert (B:1878-1964)
Married: April 1898
Great Great Grandparents
John Kenny Jr (b:1836)
Anne Theriault (Nov 13, 1833)
Isaie Hebert
Catherine Pelletier
****new information below for GGG-Grandparents***
Great Great Great Grandparents
John Patrick Kenny Sr.- 1791-1866 (Born in Ireland but came to NB in 1825)
Mary Ann Drysdale 1805-1893 (born in NB)
Great Great Great Great Grandparents
End of Kenny line (so far) - he apparently had 2 brothers that he came to NB with in 1825.
William Drysdale 1775-1850 (Born in NB)
Margaret ?
Not sure if any Kenny's on here cross paths with the information above. Either way I thought I'd give an update.
jazznblues
Marc
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Hi everybody!
Have started on my "battle plan"- so we will see what comes of that!
Garvary - that is another link too coincidental not to be investigated further.....I would believe there will have been thousands of shoemakers....but the whole "journeyman" aspect and Enniskillen "link" would indicate potential relations between our families.....it may also be the case that my ancestor (the shoemaker) simply disappears from British Census records intermittently....he must have been working in Ireland....or returned home to see his family.
For all concerned I will "post" copies of the death certificates for Alice Kenny for the timescale that "my" Alice would have died.......my assumption is that
1) she emigrated with other family members
2) she died between 1857 (when she is indicated as being alive on my ancestors marriage certificate) and 1864 (when the Irish death records become available)
I assume this because all records of the possible Alice's I just don't believe are her.....geography etc etc (you will see).....
Garvary - do you have any relations still in the Fermanagh area....I presume not.....and the elder relatives will probably have passed on without leaving much information.........are you in a position to have your own DNA checked to determine if you are related to Don and I?
As to the religion "issue" - I feel it comes down to one simple thing - survival!
Professor Kevin Kenny intimated to me that it is extremely common to find cases where individuals change their religion through convenience.
As to "Irish" and "English/Norman" Kenny's - I had an interesting discussion with someone who has a keen interest in cultural histories the other day..........I thought it would be impossible to distinguish between these Kenny's (because of the Norman Kenny's intermarrying with locals etc during the English dilution of Ireland)....BUT......our DNA is "classically" Celtic (determined by Oxford Ancestors)......this may not be interesting.....BUT.....Normans (from "Norse Men") were actually Vikings who settled in the area now known as Normandy................who then invaded England, then moved to Ireland etc etc.........."bottom line" is that I clicked when this was mentioned.............in simple terms if you're DNA is "Celtic" (and ours is!) then we are of the indigenous Irish Celts (albeit originally from the Continent!) and not the English infiltrators! - since their DNA would be classcially "Viking" - the first ten "markers" are quite distinct from the "Calts" - HURRAH! Result!!!!!!! Going to be giving Scotland a bigger shout than ever next Tuesday when my son and I roar Scotland on in the World Cup Qualifiers!!!!!!!
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Hi MacCionaoith,
there was record I found some years ago, a baptism that had a Thomas and Alice Kenny the parents of a Letty (properly Letitia or even sometimes petnamed Betsy)) from Tattinbar (not sure if that townland is in Aghavea or Aghalurcher COI parish) in September 1817. I think that was in the Belfast Public Record Office. Is that any connection to your Alice?
Garvary
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Hi Billy, Garvary, Marc and All:
I'm pleased to see Garvary that you are a Kenny. I too feel that there might be a connection to Billy's and my families.
The Alice referred to in your last message is my gggrandmother, born about 1779 and emigrated to Canada. This was the record that opened up so much history for us. Billy's Alice is at least a generation younger. The Lettie baptised also came to Canada, married and is buried in southwestern Ontario.
Billy"s research program looks great and we will look forward to anything new.
Marc's Kennys do not seem to be connected at this point in our research, but we will keep working our lines, and who knows where we will be later on.
I am on vacation and on tour until October so will be a non-contributor for a while.
Thanks everyone.
Don.
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I was searching for an Alice Kenny (Co. Fermanagh)....and I searched all "possibles" based on estimated age.....unfortunately she is unlikely to be any of those I identified.
In the interest of general research please find Alice Kenny's death certificates that I found.
In the meantime I am still looking for any details anyone may have for a William Kenny born circa 1832-1834 in Co. Fermanagh (family lore states the Enniskillen area).......he was a shoemaker journeyman........who settled in Scotland.............he was the son of a William Kenny (who died before 1857 (he is recorded as being dead at the time of his son's marriage - in the year mentioned)....and also Alice Kenny (who I am looking for - allegedly her maiden name was Kenny also.....whcih I am doubtful of.............)......Alice must have been born around 1790 - 1810????).....so anything would be appreciated.....
Thank you
William Kenny
Moderator Note: post merged with existing topic
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Thanks Garvary
That would put "my" Alice around 17 years old when she gave birth to my ancestor - not unbelievable.
Given that Don is related genetically - and that it looks like we are establishing his line more readily - it may mean that my Alice Kenny married one of her "cousins"..giving rise to the fact that on my ancestor's death certificate it states that his name is not only Kenny...but that his mother (Alice) also had the maiden name Kenny...something I can't quite believe....but we are finding that the name is not too uncommon in Fermanagh after all.....
I have posted a general "Alice Kenny" file on Rootschat which demonstrates the Alice's I identified as my "possbiles".....for many reasons I have discounted them as not the Alice I am looking for...........
I will post replies soon per one of my earlier e-mails - response slow (As always)
Kind Regards
Billy
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Hi everybody!
Just an interesting link I haven't fully investigated!
http://www.igp-web.com/igparchives/ire/fermanagh/education/tubrid-school-recs.txt
I see the following:
Johnston Kenny 1865
Thomas Kenny 1867
William Thomas Kenny 1874
Thomas Kenny 1875
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Hello Kenney researchers. I saw Donles' post from July 2012, specifically:
"Mark Kenny married, first a Miss Reddy, then Elizabeth Hand. There were 2 sons and a daughter (Ann) by the first marriage. The second marriage produced 8 children, Mark, Wm, James, Thomas, Robert, Sarah, Jane and Lizzie.", and
"Send me a safe mailing address via Rootschat’s personal message system, and I will copy you. There are 17 full 8 ½ x 14 pages with charts and notes. If any other Kenny family Roots Chatter would like this documentation, I would be pleased to mail it to you under the same conditions, as getting this all on the internet could take me years."
I tried sending Don a PM but have had no response. I'm not sure if he is still actively researching the tree and wonder if anyone else was the recipient of his generous offer to share this tree. I have a John Kenney, b: abt 1836 in Ontario, the son of Mark Kenney and Jane (maiden name not recorded on the marriage registration). I believe quite strongly that he is the son of Mark's first marriage to Jane Reddy or Ready and am hoping I can confirm this via the tree Don mentioned. John Kenney married a cousin of mine and I would like very much to help a direct descendant fill in an important part of his tree.
Thanks! John.
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Hi John,
Donles emails have stopped working but I think that I have managed to get a message to him to tell him of your new reply ;)
Lets hope we see donles very soon.
Regards
Sarah :)
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Hi Sarah, John and All:
I'm still here and will attempt to get my contact data up to date asap.
The Mark Kenny documentation offer is good and I will follow up when I figure out what I'm to do regarding Personal Messages.
Thanks, Don.
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Hi again:
My previous posts were under DONLES, now , when getting my password set up, it has changed to DONKENNY.
So I'm considered a new member, and must have 3 postings to us PM. This is my 2nd posting.
Don.
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Post 3:
Hopefully I'm back in business. Please excuse my crude attempt.
Don.
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Hi Don,
Welcome back to RootsChat :D
I will merge your old posts as Donlas into your new profile donkenny so you will be able to see any other replies to your old posts.
Regards
Sarah
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Hi, I'm a new member to RootsChat. I would like the information that DonKenny offered as the John Kenny mentioned is my GGGFather. I can't send a PM as I'm new to the forum
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Hi Taicheese:
Thank you for your inquiry.
I would be pleased to send you the Mark Kenny documentation. I will need a safe mailing address.
As to your problem with the Personal Message threshold, simply send two more posts, possibly giving us a little background on your line. It doesn't have to be much, but it should show the likely connection. Then send me your mailing address via PM.
Until later,
Don.
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Hi Don,
I believe my family tree is connected to the Kenney's you reference.
My Grandmother: Mary Dinah Kenney,
Great Grandfather was Spearman Corbett Kenney
Great Grandfather was John Kenney who was married to Dinah Corbett
Great Great Grandfather was Mark Kenney.
Mark Kennedy (should have been Kenney) is listed as the father of Mark Renney on the wedding document from Ontario marriages when John married Dinah Corbett. Also his mother is listed as Jane Hard.
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Hi Don, below is the source of the wedding information. I do have a copy in my files.
Name John Renney Aged 24 born about 1834
Married 20 Apr 1858 at Ottawa Carleton
Father Mark Rennedy Mother Jane Hard
wife: Diane Corbett Aged 19
born abt 1839 in Nepean Township
Residence of Nepean Township
Father Pat Corbett
Mother Elizabeth
from Nepean Township
Source Citation Archives of Ontario Series MS248 Reel 12
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Hi I have recently started searching for Canadian Forestry Corps history during the 1st WW they played a part in my local forest & finding details on the Canadian Governments web site it has lead me to the No 126 Company of which a captain A B R Kenny was in command, he came from Ottawa hence my search for any Kenny's there. So seeing your name in the Roots Chat forum I make this enquire. I'm wondering if you mite be able to offer some information regarding this Gentleman & maybe you have some photos you could possible copy & pass on.
Many thanks in advance.
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Lumberjackhunter
I've given a reply on your other request LINK (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=630027.msg6491222#msg6491222)
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Many thanks for your reply
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ABR Kenny is not from my Fernamagh (Methodist) Kenny line.
ABR likely came from another (Anglican) line who settled in Gouldburn, Carleton County, on the west side of Ottawa, Ontario. I have a chart of this Mark Kenny family, which includes references to the Scharfe family, if I remember correctly.
ABR was born in the Hintonburg district of Ottawa. They were entered into the 1901 census under the name "Keeny". His father was Robert, and his mother, Charlotte Scharfe. The family lived in the New Hintonburgh district in Ottawa, and the father was a lumberman. Lumbering was big in the Ottawa/Gaineau area in the 19th century.
if you dig around a bit in Google, you will find an excellent and extensive history of the 126th. There are a number of good photos of ABR Kenny.
Are you looking for a relative or records/details? Please advise as to where we are making progress, if any?
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Thanks Donkenny I'm just a very interested person looking into the unit that worked the woods during our hours of need during WW1 & we are grateful to all our commonwealth cousins for the help you have all given us during these troubled times. So far I have found some interesting info about the 126th they worked at Amptill in Bedfordshire County & here in Santon Downham in Suffolk. While they were here they built two houses which remained intact until the late seventy's I had the privilege of working for the then owner for a few hours a week before I left school & the house next door was owned by a market gardener were I used to collect vegetable's from for my mother so I suppose now I am retired I have some time to look into it all. The forest is one of the largest in the U K & I have recently joined a conservation group which meets once a month to carry out various projects also as a boy I played with friends on the site of the old Mill the 126th set up, it was mostly a pickling plant for fencing materials but they still had some of the old railway lines for running hand trolleys on. many thanks for all your help once again.
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Many thanks Don Kenny have been given some help With Major Kenny please see attached info,hope you dont already have this