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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: JCFod on Wednesday 12 September 12 18:34 BST (UK)
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hi
im looking to see if anyone can help trying to find some info on frederick birch b1895 his father is a john thomas birch b 1879 surrey tryed looking but come up a blank so not sure what im doing wrong we believe fredrick also had a sister called ella fredricks daughter remembers her going to russia which she sold flags to the russia's this was to be in the first world war but never returned so this confuses me
fredrick did marry hilda burnice carling b abt 1894 her parents were robert and mary f
thanks to anyone who can help :)
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Was Frederick also born Surrey or elsewhere?
Have you checked the 1911 census for him? The free index shows a Frederick Birch born 1896 living in Guildford
See instructions below
USING THE FREE 1911 INDEX TO DETERMINE THE CORRECT HOUSEHOLD
http://www.1911census.co.uk/search/tnaform.aspx
Once you find a possible match - make a note of the county and district in which the person was living
Return to the index and in PERSONAL DETAILS - just put the surname of the family - nothing else
In LOCATION - Select the county and below it - type in the district
In OTHER MEMBERS OF THE HOUSEHOLD - show the full name of the person you have found on the index
Click SEARCH
The 1911 census is strictly pay per view so you will have to buy credits to view the full entry - the above instructions will only help to possibly show others of the same surname in the same household
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OK I have to ask ............ why do you say Fredericks father was John Thomas Birch born 1879 Surrey? I thought we had found your John Thomas Birch born 1866 Bolton who was a Core Maker in the census with son Frederick - his occupation of Core Maker was also stated on Fredericks Marriage Certificate to Hilda that I posted.
Very puzzled as to why you have ruled him out?
By the way there is no birth registered of a John Thomas Birch in Surrey between 1837 and 1915.
Regards,
Mo
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hi mo yes your right you did it has been so confusing over the last few days trying to get my head around it i hadnt changed john thomas b to 1866 how can i find out about fredricks sister ella
and john thomas's birth place must'nt of been surrey if hes not anywhere
so im best to get fredricks birth and find john thomas's birth and order both of there birth cert aint i ?
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Lets start with what we know:
1901 Census
28 First Avenue, Wigan
John Ths Birch, Head, Mar, 35, Core Maker Iron Foundry, Bolton
Ellen, Wife, Mar, 35, Lancashire Sharples
Annie, Daur, 10, Lancashire Bolton
Frederick, 6, Lancashire Wigan
Nellie, Daur, 3, Lancashire Wigan
Alice, Daur, 1 month, Lancashire Wigan
Frederick, Nellie and Alice are all shown as having the mothers maiden name of Hart on www.lancashirebmd.org.uk
I wonder if sister Nellie was known as Ella in later times? Forget that one - there is a birth registered on the above site I posted of an Ella Margarete Birch in 1904 with the mothers maiden name of Hart so it definitely looks like the correct family.
You will probably find Frederick on the next census with the surname transcribed as Brick.
Mo
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thank u so much mo will go and see what i can come up with with that info thanks for taking the time to help :)
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First post - and finding the site confusing - so apologies if this isn't the way to go about my query.
I picked up via google a September 2012 post from Mosiefish about John Thomas Birch with a bit of discussion about the 1901 census.
I'm really interested in this as John Thomas BIRCH, coremaker, was my great grandfather with his daughter Nellie the grandmother that I remember. I've managed to research the family quite a bit - including Ella Margarete Birch whose daughter Irene McHugh died only last year in 2017 in Bolton Hospital (sadly completely unknown to our side of the family).
I've come to some blocks - for example when did Ellen Hart (John Thomas's wife) die: I just can't find grave or death but know that she died quite young which is why my grandmother (Nellie/Nell/Ellen) was brought up by her uncle Robert Birch and his wife Margaret. Nell married my grandfather George Howard Rendall and went out to Shanghai with him where my father was born in 1920.
If anyone is looking into the Birch, Hart or related families up in Bolton, please say hello.
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Welcome to Rootschat
This is the post you refer to but the poster wasn't Mosiefish it was JCFod who hasn't been online with RC since Feb 2013
topics now merged
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It's clear from the 1901 and 1911 entries that Ellen died between censuses yet I can't see any death for her
Last child was born Dec qtr 1904 so she was alive up to then
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Thanks for such quick response. Pity JDFod's interest in the familywill remain a bit of an unknown then if no posts for a few years.
I'm new to Lancashire research - trailing around online what were pretty much unknown family roots - Birch coremakers, cotton piecers, bleach works hookers and agricultural workers. I'll have to make it up to Wigan and Bolton one day for a look round...
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Yes, I'd worked that out too. But still can't find her.
Had even wondered if Ella Margarete was child of a different mother but I have her birth certificate and she is indeed the daughter of John Thomas Birch and Ellen Birch, formerly Hart.
John Thomas Birch is buried at Heaton Cemetery in the same grave as his sister in law Mary Hart who died quite young. So where's Ellen?
I did wonder whether she had died if not in childbirth but from some complication after as she would have about 39 for the birth of her last child.
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There is an Ellen Hart death in Wigan Dec qtr 1904 aged 33 - but it links back to a 1901 entry for Abram, Wigan so not her under her maiden name
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It may be best to merge this post with the 2012 one for continuity. JCFod would then get a notification (providing they haven't changed their email address since 2013) and may respond with more info
I'll ask the moderator to merge it for you
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I sent off (hopefully)for a death certificate for an Ellen Birch died 8 August 1906, Turton - but then that showed her to be a spinster, age 64 - so not in my tree. Cotton winder by occupation.
Thanks for suggesting/sorting the merge with the previous thread. Makes sense.
I see from your profile you're familiar with the site - and in Lancashire.
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It’s quite a mystery. www.lancashirebmd.org has nothing for her and I have checked GRO online for Ellen Birch deaths 1904-1911 but none in the right area or age.
There is a 1910 death in Prescot aged 45 but she can be found on the 1901 with husband in St Helens
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I'm new to Lancashire research - trailing around online what were pretty much unknown family roots - Birch coremakers, cotton piecers, bleach works hookers and agricultural workers. I'll have to make it up to Wigan and Bolton one day for a look round...
These might be useful:
Lancashire Online Parish Clerks www.lan-opc.org.uk
Lancashire BMD www.lancashirebmd.org.uk
Both have new additions each month.
Manchester & Lancashire Family History Society www.mlfhs.org.uk
It has a Bolton branch. There's an online newsletter "Bolton's Genies".
Lancashire Family History & Heraldry Society https://lfhhs.org
Wigan Family & Local History Society www.wiganworld.co.uk
Cotton Industry Jobs
https://www.andrewalston.co.uk/cottonindustry/jobs.html
(Other glossaries of cotton jobs are available.)
Edit. Last link doesn't work. The site can be found by an internet search.
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Hello RendLill
Welcome to RootsChat. I have now merged your new topic to the original topic so the member JCFod will be notified of our new replies.
Regards
Sarah
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The Ellen Birch nee Hart mystery: I even wondered whether she had done a runner or reverted back to maiden name?
Probably too much detail here - but in case of any interest...
The family story that my father (born 1920) knew was that his mother Nell Birch had been brought up by an aunt she didn't much like and got out of Bolton by volunteering towards the end of WWI - and thus meeting and marrying my grandfather - and going off to China with him.
My father was always annoyed (and rather hurt) because she had burnt family photos without discussing it with him - and all in all it seems to suggest she had a not very happy childhood and liked clearing out stuff and memories.
It took me quite a while to track Nell down in the 1911 Census as she is there called Ellen but is indeed living with her childless aunt (by marriage) Margaret Birch and her paternal uncle, Robert Birch, with the last baby sister Ella Margarete (perhaps called after her biological mother Ellen and the woman who became her unofficial mother Margaret).
Older children were with their father (including Frederick). So... all points to death of Ellen Hart - but could that 'Widower' status of John Thomas Birch in 1911 be a polite fiction and she'd gone off with someone else.
But then that seems unlikely with all those children... And John Thomas seems to have been quite a solid sort of figure through his long life: staying in touch with family, leaving a bit in his will.
I had a bit of communication with a hitherto unknown Hart cousin in Australia (DNA matched us), a descendent of Ellen Hart's brother Thomas who went out to Australia. My cousin had a memory of their branch of the family having some correspondence that referred to Ellen's death and the break up of the family but it hasn't come to light.
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I think the widower status in 1911 is probably genuine but where on earth is her death reg??
Logically - it should be in the Wigan area as that is where they were in 1901 and 1911 and it’s where the last child was born at the end of 1904. I have checked freebmd individually for all Ellen and all Birch deaths between June qtr 1904 and March qtr 1911 in case of any possible mistranscription but came up with zilch ???
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One area I've not known where to probe is Catholic records. I can't quite work out when/which parts of family were/became Catholic but as my grandmother Nell was brought up Catholic (plus my father, our family), I suspect Ellen Hart was Catholic too. But some of family seem to have C of E baptism, marriage records. Don't know if there are any RC records. But of course there should be a civil registration of death anyway.
Another area of confusion may also be what seems a certain cavalier attitude in the family to variants of first name: interchangeably Ellen/Nell/Nellie (for my grandmother known in my day as Nell) which might have also applied to Ellen Hart. Slim chance but I had tried some variants.
Thank you very much, by the way, for your efforts.
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Another area of confusion may also be what seems a certain cavalier attitude in the family to variants of first name: interchangeably Ellen/Nell/Nellie (for my grandmother known in my day as Nell) which might have also applied to Ellen Hart. Slim chance but I had tried some variants.
I tried Helen Birch on Lancashire BMD which gave a few different results but none were a likely match. Some of my Lancashire Ellen ancestors were Nellie on some records and were always Nellie in everyday life.
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One area I've not known where to probe is Catholic records. I can't quite work out when/which parts of family were/became Catholic but as my grandmother Nell was brought up Catholic (plus my father, our family), I suspect Ellen Hart was Catholic too. But some of family seem to have C of E baptism, marriage records. Don't know if there are any RC records.
Catholic Family History Society for guidance on researching R.C. ancestors. https://catholicfhs.wordpress.com
Or do internet search for Catholic Family History Society. It has several sites. There's also a North-West branch of Catholic History Society.
Lancashire Archives
https://www.lancashire.gov.uk/libraries-and-archives/archives-and-record-office
See: Our Collections . Church Registers Guide.
"Lancashire Archives is responsible for the archives of the Roman Catholic dioceses of Lancaster, Liverpool and Salford although many R.C. registers are still kept in their respective parishes."
There is a printed list of parishes in alphabetical order of place. 5 Catholic churches are listed for central Bolton. Lancashire Archives holds some registers for all 5. These are followed by 10 churches in suburbs of Bolton. LA has some registers for 7 of these. Next comes Bolton-Le-Sands. This is a different place much further north in Lancashire. (The full name of Bolton is Bolton-Le-Moors.) I don't know if this list is up-to-date. You can check current holdings for an individual parish in the online catalogue LANCAT. Bolton is in Salford Diocese.
GENUKI pages for Bolton
https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/LAN/Bolton
8 Catholic churches are listed, 5 existed in 19th or early 20th century. Page for each church has dates of existence and information on where registers and register transcripts are. GENUKI is a volunteer site. Information may not be up-to-date. Each church page has a map. If you know where your family lived at time of birth or which sub-district birth was registered in you could make a shortlist of churches. However a baby might have been born at a relative's home and baptised at the nearest church.
GENUKI has a facility to search for churches within a selected radius.
Lancashire Online Parish Clerks' website also lists churches in each place and has a brief history of some. LANOPC started adding Catholic registers a few years ago.
Around a century ago the Catholic Record Society printed and published transcriptions of many historic registers. The latest I've found in the journals for any of my families were from 1830s. Some of these have been digitised and indexed. The Genealogist and other FH websites have some. Many are on The Internet Archive.
NB Catholic Church in England has recently imposed a closure order of 110 years on sacramental records. This includes baptism registers but not funeral/burial registers. I think it's 70 years for marriages. A few baptisms up to 100 years previously had been put online before the decision was made to increase the interval.
There are a few people on RootsChat who will do look-ups at Lancashire Archives as long as you are specific about the information you need and the sources which might contain it. The Lancashire Archives look-up request thread is on the Lancashire board.
You mentioned that you're not sure when your grandmother's family became Catholic. This isn't unusual. Marriages pre 1837 had to be C. of E. to be legal. Some Catholics, especially poorer ones married in C. of E. after that date because it was cheaper. A wedding in a Catholic church required presence of a registrar who had to be paid. An Anglican vicar or curate was marriage celebrant and registrar in one man. The Catholic authorities in England recognised marriages in C. of E. performed before 1909 as valid. After 1909 a Catholic was required to marry in presence of a Catholic parish priest or his representative, after banns.
It's possible that some family members were baptised in a church of one denomination as infants and a different one later, in childhood, adolesence or adulthood. Adult baptism/reception might have been before or after marriage. Browsing a baptism register dated 1913-1917, I noticed several adults. All were married or about to be married. (People baptised after 1909 were supposed to have information about their marriages added.)
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Thanks people for all the info.
I think I've probably found my great grandmother Ellen Birch nee Hart. Or at least I have found an Ellen Birch BMD death Prescot, Lancashire, born 1865, died October-December 1910. 466a 8b which fits within the parameters of 1901 and 1911 censuses.
It's odd that I couldn't find that through Ancestry or some other sites, but did find it through TheGenealogist. Even though using the same search terms. Is that other people's experience?
Wondering though whether if I go to the expense of getting that death certificate whether it will confirm the right woman.
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My Reply 14 refers
I thought the Ellen who died 1910 was in St Helens in 1901 which is in the Prescot RD so dismissed her as your Ellen. She is shown as b Wales. Your Ellen was always living in Wigan
I have now found the St Helens Ellen in 1911 shown as b St Helens so the Prescot death is not her as I first thought and could be your Ellen
EDIT
Just checked that 1910 death against GRO online and they show her age as 35 whereas freebmd and the GRO index shows 45
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It's odd that I couldn't find that through Ancestry or some other sites, but did find it through TheGenealogist. Even though using the same search terms. Is that other people's experience?
Yes. Different results may be influenced by what source material was used, who transcribed them, how carefully transcriptions were checked, whether a user of a site flagged an incorrect transcription, whether the correction was accepted, how quickly it was amended and algorithm variations.
I've found differences between Lancashire BMD index and GRO index. Lancashire BMD index is compiled from original certificates, GRO isn't. Spelling of maiden surname of one of my grandmothers is incorrect in one entry in GRO index although correct on Lancashire BMD. GRO won't change it because their transcription matches GRO printed index. A baby who died is in GRO index as aged 5; he was 5 months old.
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My Reply 14 refers
I thought the Ellen who died 1910 was in St Helens in 1901 which is in the Prescot RD so dismissed her as your Ellen. She is shown as b Wales. Your Ellen was always living in Wigan
I have now found the St Helens Ellen in 1911 shown as b St Helens so the Prescot death is not her as I first thought and could be your Ellen
EDIT
Just checked that 1910 death against GRO online and they show her age as 35 whereas freebmd and the GRO index shows 45
I'm now so confused...
Prescott death, 1910, 466a 8B - if age 45 - that likely to be great grandmother?
But could be age 35 - in which case not right person.
'My' Ellen Hart on the Census, birth place recorded as Sharples: that's Bolton - or rather north of Bolton?
And Wigan is sort of between Bolton and St Helens, with Prescott further West?
What source might clinch it?
Do you know what might be a likely cemetery if she died in Prescot? And maybe was Catholic. Can't think they would have wanted/have afforded to transport her far.
Husband John Thomas Birch and her sister Mary Hart buried in same plot in Heaton. Mary died in 1891 and was living as boarder with them in 1891. Otherwise would expect her there.
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Prescot is the registration district - not necessarily the area in which the death took place
https://www.ukbmd.org.uk/reg/districts/prescot.html
The GRO index shows age 45 and the freebmd entry has been transcribed from that index. However - GRO online has age 35
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/Login.asp
Unfortunately - the death is not shown on LancashireBMD
I have accounted for the 2 likeliest St Helens entries - both are on the 1911 with their respective spouses.
There was a mental hospital in Rainhill - if Ellen was admitted (possibly after the birth of her last child) and died there - her death would be registered in the Prescot RD
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Re Carole's previous post.
"Prescot, a parish, post and market-town in the Hundred of West Derby ….. This parish, which is very extensive …… It comprises St. Helens, Eccleston, Farnworth, Parr, Rainford, Rainhill, Great Sankey, Whiston, Sutton, Windle, Peasley Croft and 7 other townships. …… The Poor Law Union of Prescot embraces 20 chapelries and townships." ("The National Gazetteer of Great Britain and Ireland" 1868 reproduced on GENUKI website Prescot pages)
GENUKI Prescot
https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/LAN/Prescot
This has lists of churches and cemeteries in Prescot. You can find locations of churches and cemeteries in other places in Prescot district by searching for GENUKI Placename Lancashire. If you need to look up Eccleston, make sure it's the one near Prescot.There's another Eccleston near Chorley, Great Eccleston, further North in Lancashire and Eccles near Manchester.
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Prescot is the registration district - not necessarily the area in which the death took place
https://www.ukbmd.org.uk/reg/districts/prescot.html
The GRO index shows age 45 and the freebmd entry has been transcribed from that index. However - GRO online has age 35
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/Login.asp
Unfortunately - the death is not shown on LancashireBMD
I have accounted for the 2 likeliest St Helens entries - both are on the 1911 with their respective spouses.
There was a mental hospital in Rainhill - if Ellen was admitted (possibly after the birth of her last child) and died there - her death would be registered in the Prescot RD
Rainhill: That's a really interesting idea - value of local knowledge! - definitely possible answer to why Prescot death. I've ordered a death certificate for Ellen Birch hoping that might confirm addresses etc.
It feels very plausible as an explanation for why 'it' wasn't spoken about by grandmother. Not just a simple throwing off of Bolton roots but something more disruptive to the family and seen as a stigma at the time.
Sounds like people have found Rainhill records quite detailed - Merseyside Record Office, Liverpool, I gather.
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My grandmother had a married sister who spent years in Rainhill and died there back in the 1940's. My gran always maintained she had "milk fever" after giving birth to her son but it was possibly post natal depression. Back in the 1930's the symptoms weren't as recognizable as present times.
I lived in Rainhill for many years and the hospital was actually in St Helens. I visited it on 2 occasions on business and many of the low risk patients were free to walk around the hospital and also get the bus into town!!
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Prescot is the registration district - not necessarily the area in which the death took place
https://www.ukbmd.org.uk/reg/districts/prescot.html
The GRO index shows age 45 and the freebmd entry has been transcribed from that index. However - GRO online has age 35
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/Login.asp
Unfortunately - the death is not shown on LancashireBMD
I have accounted for the 2 likeliest St Helens entries - both are on the 1911 with their respective spouses.
There was a mental hospital in Rainhill - if Ellen was admitted (possibly after the birth of her last child) and died there - her death would be registered in the Prescot RD
Rainhill: That's a really interesting idea - value of local knowledge! - definitely possible answer to why Prescot death. I've ordered a death certificate for Ellen Birch hoping that might confirm addresses etc.
It feels very plausible as an explanation for why 'it' wasn't spoken about by grandmother. Not just a simple throwing off of Bolton roots but something more disruptive to the family and seen as a stigma at the time.
Sounds like people have found Rainhill records quite detailed - Merseyside Record Office, Liverpool, I gather.
Well, I think I have found my great great grandmother, Ellen Birch, nee Hart - but the Death Certificate is strange. But explains the different ages in transcripts.
It's at first glance for an Ellen 'Myers', died 10 November 1910, age '35', 'wife' of John Myers, widower, coal miner, of 79 Leach Lane, St Helens. Who was 'present at the death' at St Helen's Hospital.
BUT there's an official note (signed by Superintendent AF Mann, Registrar, 17 February 1911) which 'corrects' the information to 'Birch, otherwise Myers', 45 not 35, for John Myers read 'John Thomas Birch, core maker' and omit 'widower'. Info from Declarations made by John Thomas Birch (my great great grandfather) and Eli Roe (whoever he may have been).
So - genealogy experts - this looks as though my great great grandmother, mother of five children (youngest born 1904, family living in expected family unit in 1901), was living 'as wife' to coal miner, John. To whom she wasn't married, but the registrar at the time thought that she was.
Or is just some muddle over death certificates and paperwork.
NB: I've found one 1911 Census John Myers (then aged 41), coal miner, living with wife Alice and three children. There's another 1911 John Myers married to another Alice but he's a bricklayer. Not that I'm making any accusations.
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Talk about opening a can of worms!!
There is a death in Prescot in 1928 for Eli Roe aged 50. Looks like he was born in Oldham and was a police officer. He was living in St Helens in 1911
I don’t think I have ever heard of that type of situation before. No doubt that was the reason it wasn’t spoken about in the family
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Talk about opening a can of worms!!
There is a death in Prescot in 1928 for Eli Roe aged 50. Looks like he was born in Oldham and was a police officer. He was living in St Helens in 1911
I don’t think I have ever heard of that type of situation before. No doubt that was the reason it wasn’t spoken about in the family
Hmm. That would seem to explain Eli Roe. Thank you.
I guess Ellen's new man perhaps thought that she was 35 (rather than 45) - and that's why that got onto the original Entry of Death.
Sad tale, especially for the children, including my 13 year old grandmother.
As left in the record then: Ellen Hart, b 1865 Sharples, teenage hooker at bleach works, (her father, small scale farmer of 17 acres in Longworth, having died when she was 16) marries John Birch at 21. Five children spread even over the next 13 years or so: then off she goes, in her 40s, sometime between 1904 and 1910 to her coal miner in St Helen's.
But only for, at most, a few years, and dies comparatively young (natural causes) at 45.
Something like that, I guess.
RIP great grandmother.
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I wonder if her burial (wherever it was) is under Myers and not Birch? It was 3 months after her death before the death registration was amended
I've checked http://crem.oltps.sthelens.gov.uk/ and nothing for 1910 or 1911 under either surname
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I wonder if her burial (wherever it was) is under Myers and not Birch? It was 3 months after her death before the death registration was amended
I've checked http://crem.oltps.sthelens.gov.uk/ and nothing for 1910 or 1911 under either surname
Yes, I wondered that and looked on deceased online (which seems good for Lancashire burials) - nothing there.
I was curious as to whether she might have been buried in a family plot with John Myers (whenever he died post 1910) as she isn't with the Birch family that I can find. I wouldn't think at this date that people were doing the cremation/sprinkle ashes in a woodland sort of thing. I also wondered whether this might have been scandalous enough to get into a local paper - but probably not.
I think it's likely that John Myers may have been younger than she was (say, birth date in 1870s) because of her assumed age of 35 at death. But all speculation...
I've tracked down that there were 7 children of Ellen's son Frederick Birch 1894-x (married Hilda Bernice Carling). Some of these children were born in the 1920s and may have recently died (or be extremely elderly) as I can't see their death notices. My family isn't in touch with any of them or their descendants but I have wondered (long shot) whether any of these unknown cousins may have retained more family lore than my branch of the family via my slightly younger grandmother who would have been younger at the time her mother left and was in China for some years after she married at 19. If any of them happened to turn up researching the Lancashire family history scene, that would be interesting..
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Probably no link, but fell over an Ellen Myers (56) buried Jan 1910 in Ince cemetery Wigan, an RC burial.....?
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I think she could be the 1901 entry married to Thomas Myers. Sister in law also Ellen Myers was the same age but married Robert Bolton in 1903
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I think she could be the 1901 entry married to Thomas Myers. Sister in law also Ellen Myers was the same age but married Robert Bolton in 1903
Did you mean the 1901 Census?
I've got her living still with Thomas Birch, core moulder, and children Annie, Frederick, Nellie and Alice in Wigan then in 1901.
The non-husband was a John Myers, Coal Miner, of 79 Leach Lane, St Helen's from her death certificate.
But these Myers you have found might be linked...
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Probably no link, but fell over an Ellen Myers (56) buried Jan 1910 in Ince cemetery Wigan, an RC burial.....?
Thanks, that's interesting. RC, area and date all sound right but she was about 45 at death (and apparently living as a 35 year old with the John Myers that she went off with).
Where did you find the record - or did you literally fall over her grave?
I was wandering around our local old graveyard trying to do a bit of photographing for the common genealogy good earlier in the year - and near-falling somewhat.
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My reply was in response to the above reply - not your Ellen
Probably no link, but fell over an Ellen Myers (56) buried Jan 1910 in Ince cemetery Wigan, an RC burial.....?
I think she could be the 1901 entry married to Thomas Myers. Sister in law also Ellen Myers was the same age but married Robert Bolton in 1903
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My reply was in response to the above reply - not your Ellen
Probably no link, but fell over an Ellen Myers (56) buried Jan 1910 in Ince cemetery Wigan, an RC burial.....?
I think she could be the 1901 entry married to Thomas Myers. Sister in law also Ellen Myers was the same age but married Robert Bolton in 1903
Couple of months ago - and treating myself to a month's membership of Find My Past and its excellent newspaper archive - I found the larger story of my great grandmother Ellen Hart and why her death certificate had to be corrected by her husband John Thomas Birch (and so was so hard to find).
It was the 'Wigan Elopement Sequel', court case recounted in local newspaper. Basically, Ellen had gone off with a neighbour, collier John Myers who had then fraudulently reported her death as his wife (10 years younger) as a life insurance fraud from which he made a mere £12. Husband found out after her burial, not having seen her for 14 months.
Doesn't really clear up why she left husband and children - husband sounded a better bet than the 'other man' - but clue may have been that she was already ill (husband could identify her from doctors description of longstanding large lump on eye). Still, that's more detail than has ever been passed down in the family...
PS: I'm finding the newspapers fascinating - and useful for finding out more about various other ancestors who for various reasons were covered by the press. Would recommend to anyone coming to a dead end with Census and parish records. More detail too.