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General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: heilanlassie on Wednesday 12 September 12 21:30 BST (UK)

Title: Death certificate
Post by: heilanlassie on Wednesday 12 September 12 21:30 BST (UK)
How can I find a death certificate for a relative who may have died during the war.

All I have been able to find is a memorial in the Brookwood Memorial Cemetery, England that mentions the name of George Harold Russell Bell, private in the 10th HD battalion of the Gordon Highlanders who died on 19 February 1940.

The name is written on Panel 14, column 2 of the said memorial.

What is throwing me, is that my relative was born in Northumberland - so why would he have joined the Gordon Highlanders?

Obviously, until I can find a death certificate showing his age and the name of his parents, I can't be sure this is the correct person.

Is there a way to get a death certificate?

Title: Re: Death certificate
Post by: gortonboy on Wednesday 12 September 12 21:40 BST (UK)

Name:George BELL

Rank:Private

Initials:G H R

Birthplace:Newcastle-On-Tyne

Residence:Aberdeen

Branch at death:Infantry

Regiment, Corps etc.:The Gordon Highlanders

Branch at 01/09/39:

Regiment, Corps etc.:

Number:2871608

Date died:19 February 1940


Theatre of war:United Kingdom


cant see him in army deaths,,,maybe he died in Scotland.
Title: Re: Death certificate
Post by: heilanlassie on Wednesday 12 September 12 21:52 BST (UK)

Name:George BELL

Rank:Private

Initials:G H R

Birthplace:Newcastle-On-Tyne

Residence:Aberdeen

Branch at death:Infantry

Regiment, Corps etc.:The Gordon Highlanders

Branch at 01/09/39:

Regiment, Corps etc.:

Number:2871608

Date died:19 February 1940


Theatre of war:United Kingdom


cant see him in army deaths,,,maybe he died in Scotland.

My relative, George Harold Russell Bell was born on 29 September 1896, in Ovingham, Northumberland (which could possible have been transcribed as Newcastle).

I just wish I could find out the age of the person who died on 19 February 1940 - but only a death certificate could confirm that.

Were deaths of Armed Service Personnel not registered?
Title: Re: Death certificate
Post by: weste on Wednesday 12 September 12 22:45 BST (UK)
It will be registered as an overseas death if occurred abroad. I have a cert for my granddads nephew, it says somwhere in france or belgium on the top of the cert, it's a standard cert for the war. He was missing, time had elapsed and was presumed dead in ww1. At least i got his date of birth on the back of the cert. You know at once when you look at the cert it's different to other certs, it what strikes you when you look at it.
Title: Re: Death certificate
Post by: Hazel Park on Wednesday 12 September 12 23:04 BST (UK)
I found my great uncle's war records online but can't find a death certificate.  After much searching and talking with family I uncovered the memorial plaque sent to his next of kin and slowly have put together the plaque, scroll, memorial poem and a few photographs (scattered throughout the family!)  I know he's buried at La-Neuville-Aux-Larres Military Cemetery at Marne, France.  He was in the 6th Battalion, Seaforth Highlanders.

Also after searching for his regiment online I read a book written by a WW1 veteran who served some of his time with the 6th Battalion - Last Man Standing - fantastic read and gave an insight into what these soldiers went through.  I learned that some soldiers who were either too young to enlist or were employed for example in coal mines ran away to enlist in different areas. - Could this be the case with your relative heilanlassie?

Title: Re: Death certificate
Post by: Marmalady on Thursday 13 September 12 00:09 BST (UK)

Obviously, until I can find a death certificate showing his age and the name of his parents, I can't be sure this is the correct person.



English death certificates do not show parent's names
Title: Re: Death certificate
Post by: heilanlassie on Thursday 13 September 12 09:00 BST (UK)

Obviously, until I can find a death certificate showing his age and the name of his parents, I can't be sure this is the correct person.



English death certificates do not show parent's names

Well, that's going to be a disappointment as I've just ordered a death certificate through GRO at a cost of £9.25 using the information that I have.

I always assumed that the date of birth, parents names and informant of death would appear on the certificate.

Watching The Heir Hunters on BBC1, they show their researchers going to the registry office to obtain a death certificate, as in order to further their research, they need to get the names of the parents of the deceased - just goes to show - you shouldn't always believe what you see on TV.

Thanks for your help.
Title: Re: Death certificate
Post by: andycand on Thursday 13 September 12 09:10 BST (UK)
Hi

Whilst English & Welsh death certificates don't have parents details, Scottish death certificates do.

Andy

Title: Re: Death certificate
Post by: IMBER on Thursday 13 September 12 10:40 BST (UK)
As regards your query about why his birthplace is shown as Newcastle this is probably down to the fact that in the Army Roll Of Honour birthplace is given to the nearest very large town.  Strange but there it is.  Just in case you don't know, "HD" stands for Home Defence.
Title: Re: Death certificate
Post by: MargP on Thursday 13 September 12 10:57 BST (UK)

Name:George BELL

Rank:Private

Initials:G H R

Birthplace:Newcastle-On-Tyne

Residence:Aberdeen

Branch at death:Infantry

Regiment, Corps etc.:The Gordon Highlanders

Branch at 01/09/39:

Regiment, Corps etc.:

Number:2871608

Date died:19 February 1940


Theatre of war:United Kingdom


cant see him in army deaths,,,maybe he died in Scotland.
Hi,"Theatre of war:United Kingdom," I asume that is where he died, my bet is he died in Scotland
Title: Re: Death certificate
Post by: heilanlassie on Thursday 13 September 12 12:37 BST (UK)

Name:George BELL

Rank:Private

Initials:G H R

Birthplace:Newcastle-On-Tyne

Residence:Aberdeen

Branch at death:Infantry

Regiment, Corps etc.:The Gordon Highlanders

Branch at 01/09/39:

Regiment, Corps etc.:

Number:2871608

Date died:19 February 1940


Theatre of war:United Kingdom


cant see him in army deaths,,,maybe he died in Scotland.
Hi,"Theatre of war:United Kingdom," I asume that is where he died, my bet is he died in Scotland


I've done a search on Scotland's People for a death of a George HR Bell in 1940, but there are no results.
Title: Re: Death certificate
Post by: MargP on Thursday 13 September 12 13:15 BST (UK)
Hi

Here is some information on Brookwood Memorial looking at this a Death Certificate may never have been issued.

Historical Information
The BROOKWOOD MEMORIAL commemorates nearly 3,500 men and women of the land forces of the Commonwealth who died during the Second World War and have no known grave, the circumstances of their death being such that they could not appropriately be commemorated on any of the campaign memorials in the various theatres of war. They died in the campaign in Norway in 1940, or in the various raids on enemy occupied territory in Europe such as Dieppe and St Nazaire. Others were special agents who died as prisoners or while working with Allied underground movements. Some died at sea, in hospital ships and troop transports, in waters not associated with the major campaigns, and a few were killed in flying accidents or in aerial combat. The Memorial was designed by Ralph Hobday and unveiled by Queen Elizabeth II on 25 October 1958

Margp


Title: Re: Death certificate
Post by: heilanlassie on Thursday 13 September 12 13:35 BST (UK)
Hi

Here is some information on Brookwood Memorial looking at this a Death Certificate may never have been issued.

Historical Information
The BROOKWOOD MEMORIAL commemorates nearly 3,500 men and women of the land forces of the Commonwealth who died during the Second World War and have no known grave, the circumstances of their death being such that they could not appropriately be commemorated on any of the campaign memorials in the various theatres of war. They died in the campaign in Norway in 1940, or in the various raids on enemy occupied territory in Europe such as Dieppe and St Nazaire. Others were special agents who died as prisoners or while working with Allied underground movements. Some died at sea, in hospital ships and troop transports, in waters not associated with the major campaigns, and a few were killed in flying accidents or in aerial combat. The Memorial was designed by Ralph Hobday and unveiled by Queen Elizabeth II on 25 October 1958

Margp




That makes very interesting reading, thank you.

I wonder, if there is actually no death certificate available for George Harold Russell Bell, that GRO will notify me and refund my £9.25 - or have I lost that?
Title: Re: Death certificate
Post by: MargP on Thursday 13 September 12 13:47 BST (UK)
Hi

Which death cert have you sent for, I can't see one, I don't think you will get a refund if you have not put a checking ref on it.

Margp
Title: Re: Death certificate
Post by: heilanlassie on Thursday 13 September 12 14:30 BST (UK)
Hi

Which death cert have you sent for, I can't see one, I don't think you will get a refund if you have not put a checking ref on it.

Margp

When I filled in the online form, I entered the name of the deceased - George Harold Russell Bell, age at death (I entered 44 years, as I know he was born in 1896), said that I didn't have the GRO reference, but that the death took place in 1940.

My card payment was taken, I was given a reference number and was advised that the estimated date for dispatch of the certificate would be 04 October 2012.

We'll wait and see - I'll either receive a certificate, or I shall be £9.25 poorer and the government will be £9.25 richer  ???  ???  ???
Title: Re: Death certificate
Post by: MargP on Thursday 13 September 12 14:36 BST (UK)
Hi

If they can't find it, you may get half your money back

Margp
Title: Re: Death certificate
Post by: heilanlassie on Thursday 13 September 12 16:34 BST (UK)
Hi

If they can't find it, you may get half your money back

Margp

Well, I don't know if it will do any good, but I have filled in an online form on the GRO web site asking if I can cancel my order, due to the fact that I have been told that there won't actually be a death certificate for my relative.

As I ordered it less than 24 hours ago, and it wasn't expected to be dispatched until 04 October - I keep my fingers crossed.
Title: Re: Death certificate
Post by: andycand on Thursday 13 September 12 23:20 BST (UK)
Hi

If they can't find it, you may get half your money back

Margp

If they can't find a death that matches your request you wont be charged at all.

Andy
Title: Re: Death certificate
Post by: weste on Friday 14 September 12 06:47 BST (UK)
Did n't they used to charge an admin fee about £3 ?
Title: Re: Death certificate
Post by: andycand on Friday 14 September 12 07:07 BST (UK)
quote author=weste link=topic=615084.msg4640936#msg4640936 date=1347601623]
Did n't they used to charge an admin fee about £3 ?
Quote

They used to but they discovered that legislation didn't allow them to do so.

Now you basically have 2 options when ordering certificates from the GRO.

1. You order quoting the GRO references and no checking information can be included.

2. You order stating you do not know the GRO reference, you enter a date of 1st Jan (and year),  you can then enter information in boxes (I think location might be necessary) They then search the year you quoted plus the year before and after. If they find a match, they send it and you pay, no match, no pay. There are specific boxes depending upon the type of certficate.

I wouldn't be surprised if this changes in the future as people may be using this method quite a lot and if considerable time is being spent on searches for no fee then I suspect the GRO will look at it.

Andy
Title: Re: Death certificate
Post by: km1971 on Friday 14 September 12 08:20 BST (UK)
You could ask the regiment's museum if they know where the 10th Battalion was stationed at the time of his death.

Another option would be to order his service record from the MOD. It costs £30 and will take 6-9 months. But as he died in service you do not have to provide a death certificate.

Ken

Title: Re: Death certificate
Post by: IMBER on Friday 14 September 12 09:31 BST (UK)
Yes, it might be worth approaching the Museum:

http://www.gordonhighlanders.com/family/

This is rather strange. At 44 years, a Private rather than an NCO or Officer, and so early in the war when there was no shortage of soldiers as in 1944/45 there was probably a reduced possibility that he was in contact with enemy action.  The 10th Battalion seems to have been committed to Home Defence, perhaps coastal.  He might have drowned, been killed by an army lorry or died from some illness etc etc.  The Gordon's barracks in Aberdeen was hit by enemy bombing and soldiers were killed but that was later than 1940. In all those circumstances a normal death certificate would be issued. The next step is to do as km1971 suggests and find our where the Battalion was stationed at that time.

Earlier you expressed surprise that he joined the Gordon Highlanders but the extract from the Army Roll of Honour indicates that he stayed in Aberdeen. Knowing why he was there and what his occupation was might help.  Perhaps he was married to a Scot?

Imber

Title: Re: Death certificate
Post by: IMBER on Saturday 15 September 12 09:32 BST (UK)
I have looked a little more closely at this.  I have managed to find another ten deaths from the 10th battalion during WW2. Of these three are commemorated on the Brookwood Memorial.  The remainder are buried or cremated in Scotland. Where ages are available they seem to have been about the same age or older than George. One was eighteen.  It is dangerous to generalise but that just could point to this unit being composed of older or young and inexperienced men. Of the three commemorated at Brookwood I have managed to find death certificates for two of them so far.  Both died from illness in Aberdeen, both were married. I think it pretty safe to say that someone gave them burial.

The official CWGC description of the Brookwood Memorial provided earlier in this thread does not provide the whole picture about who is included on this memorial.  It's not inaccurate but it covers more than might be immediately apparent.  One of the more unexpected examples is given here:

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/25376

However, they seem very much the exception. Thanks to the enthusiasm of of WW" amateur historians or en or whatever no less than two hundred of the names  named on the Brookwood Memorial have been found to have graves in the UK. When proof is provided to the CWGC they amend their records to show the burial place. The name remains on the Brookwood memorial until the panel has to be repaired or replaced or whatever. Burials are still being discovered. All this does not explain what happened to George but there must be a possibility that he died from an illness or accident and is buried in the Aberdeen area. The fact that a death certificate has not yet been found might be down to a spelling mistake or some other human error.  Not uncommon in wartime. If he had no local NOK then might be a factor. 

Title: Re: Death certificate
Post by: heilanlassie on Thursday 11 October 12 12:49 BST (UK)
Just an update on this search for a death certificate for George Harold Russell Bell.

As we suspected, the GRO couldn't produce a certificate for me, and have refunded the total amount of £9.25 back to my credit card.

Thank you to everyone for their help and advice.
Title: Re: Death certificate
Post by: IMBER on Monday 04 March 13 11:14 GMT (UK)
Having felt challenged by the above I have been digging around unsuccessfully for some months.  Then this morning I was just sitting at the computer waiting for my wife and grandson to get ready so that I could take them to work and school when I made a breakthrough. I just don't understand why I hadn't found this before but on ScotlandsPeople I located his record of death. He died outwith Aberdeen (which may explain why I'd missed him before) at Dyce on 19 February 1940. He died of a haemorrhage from a duodenal ulcer. The record shows him as a Private in 10th (HD) Battalion, Gordon Highlanders. The informant was his wife, Jane Calder.

This enabled me to search for his marriage which I discovered took place in Aberdeen in 1927. Interesting that his occupation then was recorded as Private (Gordon Highlanders). Encouraged by all this I managed to find a 1938 newspaper report that he had been imprisoned for two months for failing to support his two children. Following up on this there seem to be a number of likely children on Scotlandspeople.  The nature of his death and identification of his wife suggests that he was buried. That being the case his grave would qualify for war grave status if it could be located
whereas at present he is commemorated on the Brookwod Memorial in Surrey. There are at least 200 precedents for graves being marked by the CWGC subsequent to commemoration on the Brookwood Memorial.
Title: Re: Death certificate
Post by: heilanlassie on Monday 04 March 13 20:20 GMT (UK)
Having felt challenged by the above I have been digging around unsuccessfully for some months.  Then this morning I was just sitting at the computer waiting for my wife and grandson to get ready so that I could take them to work and school when I made a breakthrough. I just don't understand why I hadn't found this before but on ScotlandsPeople I located his record of death. He died outwith Aberdeen (which may explain why I'd missed him before) at Dyce on 19 February 1940. He died of a haemorrhage from a duodenal ulcer. The record shows him as a Private in 10th (HD) Battalion, Gordon Highlanders. The informant was his wife, Jane Calder.

This enabled me to search for his marriage which I discovered took place in Aberdeen in 1927. Interesting that his occupation then was recorded as Private (Gordon Highlanders). Encouraged by all this I managed to find a 1938 newspaper report that he had been imprisoned for two months for failing to support his two children. Following up on this there seem to be a number of likely children on Scotlandspeople.  The nature of his death and identification of his wife suggests that he was buried. That being the case his grave would qualify for war grave status if it could be located
whereas at present he is commemorated on the Brookwod Memorial in Surrey. There are at least 200 precedents for graves being marked by the CWGC subsequent to commemoration on the Brookwood Memorial.

I feel quite guilty, as you have obviously put a lot of work, and thought into this search - but I am going to have to dash your hopes, I'm afraid.

The parents of George Harold Russell Bell were Henry Bell, born about 1870 in Seaton Delavel, Northumberland and Elizabeth Jane Hardy, and not Elizabeth Biddell as mentioned on the death certificate you found - sorry  :'(  :'(  :'(

Elizabeth Jane Hardy married Henry Bell on 02 September 1895 in Prudhoe, Northumberland, and she died on 06 March 1945 at Howtel, Northumberland.

The mystery of her children - George Harold Russell Bell, born 29 September 1896 at Ovingham, Northumberland and Mary Elizabeth Hardy Bell, born 02 October 1897, also at Ovingham, Northumberland - remains  :P  :P  :P
Title: Re: Death certificate
Post by: andycand on Monday 04 March 13 21:39 GMT (UK)
Hi

Don't rule out the Scottish death certificate purely on the mothers name, the information is supplied by the informant and, as many of us with Scottish ancestors have found, the informant can get it wrong. According to reply#1 GHR Bell who died 19th Feb 1940 was born Newcastle upon Tyne. I would look for a marriage between GHR Bell and Jane Calder, if it was in Scotland then it should name both his parents.

Andy
Title: Re: Death certificate
Post by: heilanlassie on Tuesday 05 March 13 11:09 GMT (UK)
Hi

Don't rule out the Scottish death certificate purely on the mothers name, the information is supplied by the informant and, as many of us with Scottish ancestors have found, the informant can get it wrong. According to reply#1 GHR Bell who died 19th Feb 1940 was born Newcastle upon Tyne. I would look for a marriage between GHR Bell and Jane Calder, if it was in Scotland then it should name both his parents.

Andy

Thanks Andy
I have downloaded the marriage certificate which shows that a Harold Bell married a Jane Calder on 13 September 1927 at 54 Castle Street, Aberdeen.
Harold Bell states that his age is 28 years (which would have meant he was born in 1899) and that his parents were Henry Bell, deceased, a coal miner and Elizabeth Bell, formerly Riddell.

The mystery of my family members remain - a mystery.......................
Title: Re: Death certificate
Post by: IMBER on Tuesday 05 March 13 16:00 GMT (UK)


The mystery of my family members remain - a mystery.......................

Do you really think so? How many people in the UK were named George Harold Russell Bell and about the same age? Very few. Of those few how many had a father named Henry Bell? And if that doesn't resolve it then how many of the Henry Bells were coal miners? The 1911 Bedlington census records Henry as a coal miner as does George's marriage certificate. I would say that the only question remaining is to establish why George named Elizabeth Riddell as his mother, noting that at least her forename matched expectations.

Imber
Title: Re: Death certificate
Post by: heilanlassie on Tuesday 21 February 17 19:10 GMT (UK)
Having felt challenged by the above I have been digging around unsuccessfully for some months.  Then this morning I was just sitting at the computer waiting for my wife and grandson to get ready so that I could take them to work and school when I made a breakthrough. I just don't understand why I hadn't found this before but on ScotlandsPeople I located his record of death. He died outwith Aberdeen (which may explain why I'd missed him before) at Dyce on 19 February 1940. He died of a haemorrhage from a duodenal ulcer. The record shows him as a Private in 10th (HD) Battalion, Gordon Highlanders. The informant was his wife, Jane Calder.

This enabled me to search for his marriage which I discovered took place in Aberdeen in 1927. Interesting that his occupation then was recorded as Private (Gordon Highlanders). Encouraged by all this I managed to find a 1938 newspaper report that he had been imprisoned for two months for failing to support his two children. Following up on this there seem to be a number of likely children on Scotlandspeople.  The nature of his death and identification of his wife suggests that he was buried. That being the case his grave would qualify for war grave status if it could be located
whereas at present he is commemorated on the Brookwod Memorial in Surrey. There are at least 200 precedents for graves being marked by the CWGC subsequent to commemoration on the Brookwood Memorial.

I'm back on this research trail, and wonder where you found the 1938 newspaper report.
Would I be able to find it online?
I shall also have to try and hunt down the possible children from this marriage. I feel spurred into action again  :P  :P
Title: Re: Death certificate
Post by: IMBER on Wednesday 08 March 17 10:09 GMT (UK)
I found the newspaper report on Findmypast. It's in the Aberdeen Press and Journal for 1 June 1938. His address in Aberdeen differs from his family so perhaps there were issues at that time, although his death was registered by his wife.

Imber
Title: Re: Death certificate
Post by: heilanlassie on Wednesday 08 March 17 13:33 GMT (UK)
I found the newspaper report on Findmypast. It's in the Aberdeen Press and Journal for 1 June 1938. His address in Aberdeen differs from his family so perhaps there were issues at that time, although his death was registered by his wife.

Imber

That sounds interesting, and thank you for taking so much time to try and find answers for me.
As my subscription to FindMyPast has now expired, I shall endeavour to find someone to perhaps download it for me.
Again, I thank you very VERY much.
Title: Re: Death certificate
Post by: IMBER on Friday 30 October 20 16:05 GMT (UK)
After your last post on this subject and having given it further thought I became convinced that a married man who lived locally must be buried in Aberdeen or thereby. I was encouraged by the fact that myself and a pal had just managed to identify the grave of a war casualty in Moray and put a case to the Commonwealth War Graves Commission (CWGC) to have it marked with a CWGC headstone. This detailed submission was successful and in due course the headstone was erected. That was in 2017.

To cut a very long story short by June 2019 I was in a position where I was able to submit Bell’s case to the CWGC. I heard nothing back until earlier this week when the CWGC informed me that they had accepted my claim that Bell was buried in Aberdeen Trinity Cemetery. He was in a lair owned by the local branch of the Royal British Legion, Scotland but when I had approached them about this they responded that knowledge of their involvement had been lost over the years. The CWGC have now amended Bell’s record on their website and have ordered up a headstone. This is always a lengthy process given the hundreds they have to produce each year and is made worse by the fact that unlike the Commission’s standard Botticino limestone headstones, which are made in France, all Scottish headstones are made from granite. They anticipate the headstone will be in place by the middle of next year.

In such cases CWGC will always try to make contact with surviving family and they do so by placing a notice on their website:

https://www.cwgc.org/our-work/news/appeal-for-relatives-30-october-2020/

Obviously very few relatives see such an appeal unless perhaps the story is picked up and featured by a local newspaper. Given the amount of time I had spent on this case I had a pretty good feel for the structure of the Bell family and the CWGC were happy for me to approach possible candidates to make them aware of this development and give them an opportunity to get in touch with their Enquiries Team. I have now written to three people who I suspect are grandchildren. They may or may not be interested in any of this but at least they will have the option of pursuing matters further.

I think I recall correctly it is your husband who has Bell links and so I hope that this satisfactory outcome pleases him and enables you to focus your energies in another direction!

Imber

Title: Re: Death certificate
Post by: heilanlassie on Saturday 31 October 20 12:44 GMT (UK)
After your last post on this subject and having given it further thought I became convinced that a married man who lived locally must be buried in Aberdeen or thereby. I was encouraged by the fact that myself and a pal had just managed to identify the grave of a war casualty in Moray and put a case to the Commonwealth War Graves Commission (CWGC) to have it marked with a CWGC headstone. This detailed submission was successful and in due course the headstone was erected. That was in 2017.

To cut a very long story short by June 2019 I was in a position where I was able to submit Bell’s case to the CWGC. I heard nothing back until earlier this week when the CWGC informed me that they had accepted my claim that Bell was buried in Aberdeen Trinity Cemetery. He was in a lair owned by the local branch of the Royal British Legion, Scotland but when I had approached them about this they responded that knowledge of their involvement had been lost over the years. The CWGC have now amended Bell’s record on their website and have ordered up a headstone. This is always a lengthy process given the hundreds they have to produce each year and is made worse by the fact that unlike the Commission’s standard Botticino limestone headstones, which are made in France, all Scottish headstones are made from granite. They anticipate the headstone will be in place by the middle of next year.

In such cases CWGC will always try to make contact with surviving family and they do so by placing a notice on their website:

https://www.cwgc.org/our-work/news/appeal-for-relatives-30-october-2020/

Obviously very few relatives see such an appeal unless perhaps the story is picked up and featured by a local newspaper. Given the amount of time I had spent on this case I had a pretty good feel for the structure of the Bell family and the CWGC were happy for me to approach possible candidates to make them aware of this development and give them an opportunity to get in touch with their Enquiries Team. I have now written to three people who I suspect are grandchildren. They may or may not be interested in any of this but at least they will have the option of pursuing matters further.

I think I recall correctly it is your husband who has Bell links and so I hope that this satisfactory outcome pleases him and enables you to focus your energies in another direction!

Imber

Gosh, I can't believe that you are still on the hunt for information on this man - who would have been my husband's great uncle.
Why is he entitled to a CWGC headstone, when he didn't actually die in the war?

I am also interested to read that you have written to three possible relatives of his.
The only relatives I have discovered are children that he had with his wife, Jane Calder.
They are named as Harold Bell, 1928 - 2002, and George Russell Bell (who may still be alive), born in 1930.
Title: Re: Death certificate
Post by: IMBER on Saturday 31 October 20 14:24 GMT (UK)
If you recall, you found him on the CWGC Brookwood Memorial in Surrey. He qualified for inclusion there because he had died in service in 1940. Unfortunately, George Russell Bell (1930) died in 1931. As far as I can see Harold Bell (1928) had two children. One died last year; I have written to the other. George Harold Russell Bell (1896) also had a daughter Frances, born in 1925 and registered under the Calder surname as Frances Bell. As you can imagine that wasn’t easy to find, particularly because the records showed her as a boy named Francis! I asked them to correct that and I assume they have done so. As far as I can see Frances had two children and I have also written to them. I hope I’ve got that right but if not then no doubt they will tell me. Of course, they may have no interest in any of this, but the options are there if they wish to make contact with the CWGC.
If I can provide you with any further information just let me know. If it starts to get sensitive then perhaps use the private message option. We could always exchange email addresses if needs be.
Title: Re: Death certificate
Post by: nikkid on Monday 02 November 20 20:59 GMT (UK)
Don’t know if this your relative but saw this on the Aberdeen & NE Family History Society facebook page
It caught my eye as my mother had a half brother called Ronald Bell whose father was George Russell Bell. I had done some looking on Scotlands People regards the name and found the Calder/Bell marriage as well as George Russell Bell being the father of Ronald to my grandmother (not married) Possibly not connected at all though.I’d be interested in the newspaper article to see if there is a connection .
Title: Re: Death certificate
Post by: heilanlassie on Tuesday 03 November 20 09:52 GMT (UK)
Don’t know if this your relative but saw this on the Aberdeen & NE Family History Society facebook page
It caught my eye as my mother had a half brother called Ronald Bell whose father was George Russell Bell. I had done some looking on Scotlands People regards the name and found the Calder/Bell marriage as well as George Russell Bell being the father of Ronald to my grandmother (not married) Possibly not connected at all though.I’d be interested in the newspaper article to see if there is a connection .

Interesting.

The man mentioned by the CWGC, George Harold Russell Bell, was in fact my husband's great uncle.
George Harold Russell Bell's sister, Mary Elizabeth Hardy Bell, was my husband's paternal grandmother.
I would be interested to see where Ronald fits in.