RootsChat.Com
Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Moray (Elginshire) => Topic started by: n4mv3t on Wednesday 03 October 12 03:51 BST (UK)
-
I have been researching my greatx2 grandfather, James McGregor (McGrigor)... my brickwall(s) are that I have been unsuccessful in finding his birth and his mother's name. Also as James seems to have been an "organised" man (he trains at least 4 apprentices) I had assumed he would have a headstone in a cemetery, but can't find that either.
His death details only show his father as John McGregor, Blacksmith (Master) (deceased) ... no mention of his mother.
All of my research has been through SP (I live in Australia)
... any help, suggestions etc would be greatly appreciated
His details are as follows ...
1841 Census shows
Jas McGrigor aged 35, Occ: Tailor, Parish: Gartly
Jane McGrigor aged 25,
Alex McGrigor aged 8,
John McGrigor aged 6,
Jas McGrigor aged 5,
Jane McGrigor aged 3,
William McGrigor aged 5 months
1851 Census shows
James McGrigor aged 47, married, Master Tailor employs 2 men, at Drumbulg, Gartly
Jane McGrigor aged 40, married, wife
Alexander McGrigor aged 18, unmarried, son, Tailor (apprentice)
Jane McGrigor aged 13, unmarried, daughter, employed at home
William McGrigor aged 10, son, scholar
George McGrigor aged 7, son, scholar
Francis McGrigor aged 4, son
Summary
As John and James McGrigor, (they would be aged 16 and 15) are not showing on the census I assume they are either deceased or working away from home
1861 Census shows
James McGregor aged 58, widower, Master Tailor employs 2 men, at Drumbulg, Gartly and was born in Glass
Jane McGregor aged 25, unmarried, daughter
William McGregor aged 20, unmarried, son, Tailor (Journeyman)
Peter McGregor aged 11, son, scholar
Ann McGregor aged 8, daughter, scholar
Elizabeth Clyne aged 39, unmarried, domestic servant, born in Glass
John Smith aged 14, servant, Tailor (apprentice), born in Huntly
Jane Robertson aged 84, mother-in-law, widow, born in Insch
Summary
So, Jane (the mother) has died sometime between 1853 (Ann’s birth) and 1858 (she is shown as deceased on George’s death record). George McGregor died on the 3rd May 1858 aged 14 years. Francis McGregor is away from home working on the “Cantloch” property (148 acres) of George Henderson at Auchindoir. Francis McGregor is 14 years old. However, Jane Robertson needed to be researched as the mother-in-laws surname should have been Adam. A search on SP revealed that her maiden surname was Robertson and that she was the widow of Alexander Adam and that her parents were George and Ann Robertson (m.s. of Ann Robertson was McDonald). Jane Robertson died on the 11th November 1864. Note – on Jane Robertson’s ‘death certificate’ James McGregor signs his surname as McGrigor (there is a very definite dot above the i in McGrigor)
1871 Census shows
James McGregor aged 67, widower, Master Tailor employs 2 men, and farms 9 acres arable, at Drumbulg, Gartly and was born in Glass
Alexander McGregor aged 14, Grandson, Tailor (apprentice), born in Banff
Ann Proctor aged 19, unmarried, domestic servant, born in Marnoch
Duncan Grant aged 18, unmarried, Tailor (Journeyman)
1881 Census shows
James McGregor aged 78, widower, Master Tailor, farms 8.5 acres arable, at Drumbulg Farmhouse, Gartly, and was born in Glass
Ann Proctor aged 29, unmarried, domestic servant, born in Marnoch
1891 Census shows
James McGregor aged 89, widower, Crofter, at Drumbulg Farmhouse, Gartly, and was born in Glass
Ann Proctor aged 38, unmarried, domestic servant, born in Marnoch
he dies on 24 Jan 1892
-
That is a lot of hard work there (seen also your tree on a/try which is pretty resourced with docs!).
A couple of questions in trying to help:
Have you checked the christening entries of the children to see if any family members may have acted as sponsors?
Have you checked out some of the OPR birth entries in Glass & Gartly where father shows as a John, such as:
- 10 May 1803 James McGrigor, parents John McGrigor and Anne Wilson, Glass, ref. 199/00 0010 0116. I thought this one had potential given the year (your James is pretty consistent on his age throughout). Also from his large family of boys, only two girls, Jane named after maternal grandmother likely and last born Ann, your line. This couple also have an entry for a Margaret on 4 July 1800.
- A second possibility is an entry for a Helen McGrigor on 16 June 1793 to a John McGrigor and a Jane Laing, ref. 199/00 0010 0094
I wondered whether any of these entries may have included an occupation for the father John that could help you.
familysearch/IGI doesn't seem to be picking up on the spelling variant of McGregor/McGrigor(e) etc, so you will have to try different versions on any searches. With SP, sure you are using the wildcards for searches ;)
Monica :)
-
As John and James McGrigor, (they would be aged 16 and 15) are not showing on the census I assume they are either deceased or working away from home
In 1851, both John and James are working local in Gartly in different households.
1861, I thought this might be John:
John Mcgregor 27, ploughman b. Gartly
Elizabeth Mcgregor 30 b. Rhynie, Aberdeenshire
Address: 30 Lumsden V, Auchindoir, Aberdeenshire
And, also for 1861, a possibility for James:
James McGrigor 25, Blacksmith (journeyman) b. Gartly
Margaret McGrigor 33, Petty, Invernesshire
Jean McGrigor 3 b. Nairn
Margaret McGrigor 1 b. Huntly
Address: Market Street, Huntly
Monica
-
Monica, many thanks for your suggestions/guidance ... I have looked at birth OPR's on SP for Alexander and John and they contain only the basic info ... even the witnesses don't help :( ... and as they are all OPR's for James' and Jane's children I guess that William and James (child) will only have basic info ... Jane (child) I can't find ...
... I had a look at James McGregor and Ann Wilson, as you suggested, and yes they looked very promising ... but then I looked at the 1841 census and found a John McGregor aged 55 and Ann aged 58 living at ????? (refer image 1 below) ... so maybe they are not right
... that's as far as I have got so far
... I have attached another image (Burnbrunach ... [?] ... ) ... it is the word that follows Jane Adam's name on Alexanders birth on OPR ... I am assuming that it is a place name (it doesn't come up on Google maps), but have noticed it appearing on some trees as a surname
... any further suggestions would be appreciated as it seems my McGregors are truly hiding in the mist
-
... I had a look at James McGregor and Ann Wilson, as you suggested, and yes they looked very promising ... but then I looked at the 1841 census and found a John McGregor aged 55 and Ann aged 58 living at ????? (refer image 1 below) ... so maybe they are not right
Is this the entry you mean:
John Mcgrigor 55 schoolmaster b. Inverness-shire
Ann Mcgrigor 58 b. Inverness-shire
Marin Mcgrigor 30 b. Inverness-shire
Address: Camerory, Cromdale, Inverness-shire
Not sure this would necessarily connect with the christening entries in Glass at the turn of the century...
Not sure on place name as yet for Alexander's christening entry, will have a think on that.
Monica
-
You know what it is like for sure with spellings of those unique Scottish places for this period....you have to be open minded!
There is this entry in 1841 which I wondered whether it is the same as you are seeing on Alexander's 1832 christining entry:
There is a farming family, headed up by a 73 year old William Bruce in 1841. The address shows as Burncruinock, Gartly.
For this, you are likely to also find it as Burncruinack/h etc. A number of wills & testaments showing on SP for the various farmers and family members through the 19th C.
Monica
-
I've just had a look through James Godsman's book on Glass to see if there are any McGregor blacksmiths - no sign. However, at Marketroad, Glass, were Alexander McGregor, master tailor (1832-1916) and his wife, Annie Lobban (1834-1899). Their son, Peter, built the neighbouring house of Roselea, where he carried on a grocery and tailor's business.
-
"... I have attached another image (Burnbrunach ... [?] ... ) ... it is the word that follows Jane Adam's name on Alexanders birth on OPR ... I am assuming that it is a place name (it doesn't come up on Google maps), but have noticed it appearing on some trees as a surname."
It is a farm name, but spelt "Burncruinach". It was/is in the parish of Gartly, North West of Culdrain.
If you go to Google Maps, search for "Culdrain", at the top left of the screen, you will see "Burncruinach Wood", if you zoom in on the wood, there are 2 steadings above and left, Burncruinach is the upper, larger of the two. It has a loop road around it. You can also get a "Street view" of it.
Regards
Malky
-
Further, he is buried in Gartly, in the same plot as
Jane Adam 30 Dec.1853, George McGregor 3 May 1858, Jane McGregor 10 Mar.1862 James McGregor 24 Jan.1892
Info from ANESFHS MI Index.
Regards
Malky
-
... I had a look at James McGregor and Ann Wilson, as you suggested, and yes they looked very promising ... but then I looked at the 1841 census and found a John McGregor aged 55 and Ann aged 58 living at ????? (refer image 1 below) ... so maybe they are not right
Is this the entry you mean:
John Mcgrigor 55 schoolmaster b. Inverness-shire
Ann Mcgrigor 58 b. Inverness-shire
Marin Mcgrigor 30 b. Inverness-shire
Address: Camerory, Cromdale, Inverness-shire
Not sure this would necessarily connect with the christening entries in Glass at the turn of the century...
Monica
yes, thanks ... I can't see a connection either ... think I'll put that one in the "wrong file"
-
You know what it is like for sure with spellings of those unique Scottish places for this period....you have to be open minded!
There is this entry in 1841 which I wondered whether it is the same as you are seeing on Alexander's 1832 christining entry:
There is a farming family, headed up by a 73 year old William Bruce in 1841. The address shows as Burncruinock, Gartly.
For this, you are likely to also find it as Burncruinack/h etc. A number of wills & testaments showing on SP for the various farmers and family members through the 19th C.
Monica
my thanks again ... re Burncruinack/h etc, I have now had a look at the wills on SP and the names are Bruce to 1851, Ronald to 1890, Grant to 1894 and Ronald to 1895 and no helpful maiden names ... ???
-
I've just had a look through James Godsman's book on Glass to see if there are any McGregor blacksmiths - no sign. However, at Marketroad, Glass, were Alexander McGregor, master tailor (1832-1916) and his wife, Annie Lobban (1834-1899). Their son, Peter, built the neighbouring house of Roselea, where he carried on a grocery and tailor's business.
many thanks for that information ... because of it (no McGregor Blacksmith in Gartly) I am now looking further afield, figuring that as a young man James McGregor became a tailor/journeyman for who ever he was apprenticed to and had an opportunity to "look around" and decide where he wanted to settle and progress with his trade, and he chose Gartly, away from his fathers town/village ... so, how far would journeymen travel? I guess the answer to that is "as far as necessary to make a good living" ... ???
-
"... I have attached another image (Burnbrunach ... [?] ... ) ... it is the word that follows Jane Adam's name on Alexanders birth on OPR ... I am assuming that it is a place name (it doesn't come up on Google maps), but have noticed it appearing on some trees as a surname."
It is a farm name, but spelt "Burncruinach". It was/is in the parish of Gartly, North West of Culdrain.
If you go to Google Maps, search for "Culdrain", at the top left of the screen, you will see "Burncruinach Wood", if you zoom in on the wood, there are 2 steadings above and left, Burncruinach is the upper, larger of the two. It has a loop road around it. You can also get a "Street view" of it.
Regards
Malky
Malky ... thanks, that is most helpful, because following on from my reply to GR2, where I state that I am now looking further afield for John McGregor, Blacksmith, your info after I had checked the street view (and "Burncruinach" wills) is leading me to think that maybe John McGregor was not a town/village Blacksmith, but a resident on farm blacksmith because judging from all of the "outbuildings" Burncruinach was a very busy place and so I am guessing a resident blacksmith would be viable ... I would appreciate anyones thoughts on this ... thanks
-
Further, he is buried in Gartly, in the same plot as
Jane Adam 30 Dec.1853, George McGregor 3 May 1858, Jane McGregor 10 Mar.1862 James McGregor 24 Jan.1892
Info from ANESFHS MI Index.
Regards
Malky
more great information!! ... how lucky am I!! .... thank you ... btw, so that I can follow up that info, what is ANESFHS (my Aussie brain thinks that part of it is Elgin Shire with Historical Society at the end) ... again, thanks.
... now I am wondering if there is a headstone ... ::)
-
As per your request
http://www.anesfhs.org.uk/databank/miindex/miindex.php
In all probability, there will be a headstone, as the contents of the previous post are from a headstone reading.
Aberdeen and North East Family History Society main web page below.
http://www.anesfhs.org.uk/
If you contact them, they may tell you the whole reading from the headstone. You can only ask!
Regards
Malky
-
Hi n4mv3T, I've just seen your postings on Roots Chat and have joined up in order to reply. Our family is directly descended from James McGregor of Drumbulg (1803-1892) and I have much information. I also live in Australia and would be very interested to learn of your family connection.
-
Re James McGregor who was born on 10th May, 1803 in Glass. His father was John McGrigor of Netherton and his mother was Anne Wilson. John was a blacksmith and died on 12/5/1857 aged 8s. He died from asthma at Cookshill, Kildrummy. His two children were Margaret, born in 1801 and James, born in 1803.
James and Jane Adam had 8 children and my family's connection is through the eldest, Alexander (Sandy) who was born at Burncruinach, Gartly on 23/9/1832. I have extensive details of all James' children and personally know many of the descendants.
-
G'day MaLoCo1 ... thanks for posting, I've been having a "rest" from researching the tree 'cos "man brain" was getting confused ... ;D ... but am back again, rechecking my research and so hope you will reply ... am in northern rural SA
-
Good to know you've seen my posting. Definitely want to discover your connection to James McGregor of Gartly and to share mutual research. I am in suburban Melbourne but hope to be in Barossa Valley next Easter.
-
Good to know you've seen my posting. Definitely want to discover your connection to James McGregor of Gartly and to share mutual research. I am in suburban Melbourne but hope to be in Barossa Valley next Easter.
Barossa is nice, hope you have booked ahead, Clare Valley shouldn't be overlooked if you like your wines ... have had the painters in the house for 10 days so my home office has suffered (it, including 3 computers, is spread through three other rooms!!) so progress on research is about reoccur ... will PM you as to how best we can discuss the James McGrigor connection pre Easter.