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Research in Other Countries => Europe => Topic started by: BonnieDownUnder on Thursday 04 October 12 03:12 BST (UK)
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Hello
Trying to trace my great grandfather's birth/baptismal in about 1841/2 in Schleswig-Holstein.
Have found from the Parish records of St. Luke's Church of England, Gulgong (Australia) that John Peters, a bachelor aged 30 years, born Schleswig Germany, aged 30 years was the child of John Peters and Julia Mannings when he married Jane Chandler on 23 Feb 1875.
When John died on 17 May 1928 his age shown as 81 years and name as 'Johannes Taugemann Peters known as John Peters. His parents Johannes Peters, a 'builder' and mother Margaretha Manning which contradicts marriage info.
I also have a letter that John wrote (in old German that has been translated to English) on 19 July 1914, but it was never posted (feel because of the start of WW1) to his sister Julie/a. In this he mentions that he will turn 73 next birthday and that in a week's time she, Julie/a, would celebrate her 70th. Another clue he wrote ... 'That you return to the old house in Palmaelle ....' Have had no luck in locating this place.
Any assistance would be great appreciated. Thanks Bonnie
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This could be the family in the 1845 census:
All persons in the household
Sydslesvig, , Husum-Bredstedt, 3. Quartier, , Osterende 33 und 34, 185.1, FT-1845
Name: Age: Marital status: Occupation in household: Occupation: Birth place:
Johann Peters 40 Verheir. Zimmermann Schwabstedt, Amts Husum
Anna Peters, geb. Mannigs 40 Verheir. Seine Frau Uelvesbüll in Eiderstedt
Johannes Trautmann 4 Unverheir. Sein Sohn Husum
Margaretha Peters 1 Unverheir. Seine Tochter Husum
Carsten Thomsen 59 Unverheir. Kostgänger Kirchspiel Schwesing, Amts Husum
http://www.ddd.dda.dk/dddform_uk.asp?sit=2
Brian
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There is a Palmaelle (Street?) in Hamburg, Germany.
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Many thanks to barryd and Brilau your respond.
Sorry, even using google, I am unable to understand the wording on the 1845 Census record, for the English translation from Danish/German? as to what for Verhir, 'Zimmerman, Schwabsetdt etc etc are ...
Thanks Bonnie
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Verheir = Married
Unverheir = Unmarried
Zimmerman = Carpenter
Schwabstedt is the place he was born, in German. In Danish it is called Svavsted.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwabstedt
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Many thanks all replies to my request looking for my ggf Johannes Traufmann Peters and feel that the 1845 census is certainly he and his family.
Another question, I am unable to find them on any further Danish census records so presume that the area where they were living came under Germany rule not long after. Is there any way of tracking them on further German census records?
I have checked on the Family Search engine and nothing comes up with a birth/baptismal record for my grandfather. How does one go about trying to find this information.
Thanks again. Bonnie
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Just to say a BIG thanks to KGarrad, Brilau and Barryd for without your help, I would never have found my g.great grandfather and my g.great grandmother birth and baptismal records.
Can anyone assist with translation from old German to English?
Regards Bonnie
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I think the German administration only took place from 1871 with Bismarck and the Prussians. The records may be back in Denmark, but they may still be held at Schleswig State archives. These are subject to German Privacy controls. I have yet to gain access to any of them! the Danish route is probably best but is still being developed by volunteers.
Some local researchers I tried charge real fees. e-Mail: hans-peter.voss[-- at --]t-online.de is one who holds registers of churches in North Elbe region based at Kiel. For parish records go directly to them, but try the website Pro-Genealogist for the article German Parish Registers - What Else is New? by Friedrich R. Wollmershäuser, Mar 1993. Nordelbische Evangelisch-Lutherische Kirche website is in German but gives lists of all parishes then and now. Schleswig-Holsteinische Familienforschung e.V. website is also in German but may be useful.
Moderator Comment: e-mail edited, to avoid spamming and other abuses.
Please replace [-- at --] with @
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Many thanks your reply and sorry for my delay in acknowledging your message ... unfortunately I have had computer problems ... hoping that this message will reach you. Once problems are sorted, I will attempt to search data bases you suggested. Thanks again, Bonnie
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Further thought - if you already know the parish church, local town or village, then I would email to see if they have a local historian; otherwise find out the name of the church and ask the church directly if they have an archivist who might look up their records. Best to send some money - they do not use PayPal of creditcard!
Are your ancestors in Dithmarschen? The Dithmarschen records (up to 1864) are already available on microfiche and microfilm through LDS Family History Centre, but other places also have them.
Happy Hunting.javascript:replaceText('%20:)',%20document.postmodify.message);
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Hello
12+ months on, I have still not been able to locate my great grandfathers birth/baptismal record - though I have both his parents - nor his parents marriage registration.
Also, I am perplexed why I can't locate them on C1850 or later; the only one so far found is C1845.
Any suggestions on where I go from here much appreciated. Thanks Bonnie
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On a similar topic can anyone offer advice on how to find an ancestor who called himself Frederick Johnson in Australia, he gave his birthdate as 12/11/1847 born in Husum, Parents were Christian and Margaret Bensen. I believe he was in the Merchant Navy and he jumped ship in Australia.
Thank you
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Hi BonnieDownunder, there are a couple of routes worth persuing. One is still in development and I have not checked it myself for a little while. https://www.archion.de/ is a 'Portal' with access to an increasing number of church records most lately including some (not all) from Dithmarschen in S-H.
The other led me to Hamburg State Archives as so many migrated south for work etc. Personnenstandsregister, Staatsarchiv Hamburg, Personnenstandsregister are mostly available through Ancestry.com. Otherwise the Kirchenarchiv both at Pinneburg and at Wrist have comprehensive data. I'll look their addresses and get back to you later today.
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Hi BonnieDownunder, Have checked my lists and suggest you might try Kreisarchiv Nordfriesland, (County Archive) Asmussenstraße 19, 25813 Husum; to Frau Ueck of kreisarchi(at)nordfriesland.de; tel 04841 8062104 or else 04841 8062101. Website: https://www.nordfriesland.de// - not in English.
I use Google translate; I write in both English and Google-German; I am very polite and business-like, and sometimes I get a reply.
For church archives try: http://www.archivnordkirche.de/index.php/Nordfriesland.html.
I ask for Baptism (taufen) confirmation (konfirmation), marriage (hieraten) as well as death (toten) records. They may also have family books - back then the church kept a record of all members in family groups; they may, they may not.
I notice their site is not in English, they have three possible contact people; there is no direct mention of a fee, but I always ask what it is (they never seem to want anything to do with Paypal, crefdit card or the like - cash, yes; but a back cheque otherwise. May be different in NordFriesland from my experiences in Dithmarschen and Altona and Hamburg.)
For Danish possibilities try Arkivet ved Dansk Centralbibliotek for Sydslesvig e.V. Norderstraße 59, 24939 Flensburg, addressed to "e Damen und Herren" l(at)dcbib.dk. Same requests with same request for payment method; for same information but in Google-Danish.
Don't forget too that the revolting peasants were all stirred up in 1848, and from then on vast numbers took to the highways down to Hamburg, or the seaways to England and/or USA. There they may have changed their names or gave their last location as something vague such as Schleswig-Holstein. Peter Voss (http://hans-peter-voss.de/e/index.htm) reckons about 3 Million took off to escape conscription.
All the best
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Voss also gives a good summary of why we cannot always find our ancestors.
Furthermore, I asked at the Staatsarchiv Schleswig why we could not find the Census paper, and was told that once the Danes or Prussians had the information (mainly to recruit young men for war) they needed, they threw them away, destroyed them, chucked them out.
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Also, I am perplexed why I can't locate them on C1850 or later; the only one so far found is C1845.
Hi
Here is what I found in the censuses. The 1870 census is not available unfortunately. These are the original records.
1845
33 und 34:
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=255181#255181,47723371
1855
no 33:
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=121515#121515,17499473
1860
33:
https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/billedviser?bsid=10618#10618,267681
Ian
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The Kreisarchiv Nordfriesland, (County Archive) Asmussenstraße 19, 25813 Husum; have some records up to 1800 and then from 1875.
The church records between these 2 dates can be found on microfilm in the Kirchenkreisarchiv Nordfriesland.
Kirchenstr. 4
25821 Breklum
0049 4671 6029-306
http://www.nordfriesland-evangelisch.de/
Dave
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I was in the archive yesterday doing some research of my own. Took the opportunity and had a look at the baptisms in 1841/42
Found this.
It´s very hard to read. Two people have had a shot at it with this result.
Kirchenbuch Husum 1842
Nr 15.
Johannes Taugemann Peters des Zimmermanns Johann Peters aus Husum ?? Margaretha Peters, geb Mannings ehel. Sohn
Gevattern
1 Herr Johannes Paulsen
2 Jacob ............
3 Jungfer Johanna Riesenberg
alle hierselbst
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Johannes Taugemann Peters the carpenter Johann Peters from Husum ?? Margaretha Peters, nee Mannings legitimate Son
Godparents
1 Herr Johannes Paulsen
2 Jacob ............
3 Spinster Johanna Riesenberg
all local people from here
Hope this is of some help
Dave
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The letter has finally been translated by great grandson of Cate Ryan nee Peters. It's not a very informative letter but finally reveals who Dora Stanley was. That's one family mystery cleared up. Try and contact me and I'll give you a copy. Luke.