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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: wilcoxon on Monday 22 October 12 21:12 BST (UK)
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THIS HAS NOW BEEN FOUND TO BE THE WRONG MARRIAGE
Free BMD
Marriages Sep 1903
WELSH Patrick / Connell Margaret
I`ve been trying to find more details on Lancashire BMD and Online parish clerks , but can`t locate this marriage.
I`m trying to find the fathers of the couple or at least where they married.
They are quite difficult to trace in 1901, and in 1911 when married they are in seperate households, which doesn`t help to confirm I have the right match.
Patrick is married but a boarder in Birkenhead, Margaret is in Liverpool age 26 and married 7 years.
Patrick is born Durham Sunderland c 1885 and Margaret b Liverpool c 1885
Any suggestions , thanks.
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That 1903 marriage was:
Patrick Welsh to Mary E Hillon
;D
Margaret Connell married James Rossiter
info from LancashireBMD
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What about Patrick Walsh who married Margaret Devine in 1903?
Mo
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or this one
Patrick WELSH, South Shields, Jun qtr 1904 Vol 10a 1473
SCOTT, MargaretAGNEW, Elizabeth
PADDEN, James Clement
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Our Lady of Reconciliation de La Salette
13th May, 1903
Patritius Walsh of 3c 2H Tichfield Street father Joseph Walsh and Margaritam Devine of 26C 2H Burlington Street Father Patritii Devine
Witnesses were Thoma and Maria Kirwan of 5 Green Street.
Mo
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1891 and 1901 have a Patrick Welsh b 1884/5 Sunderland. Parents Patrick and Margaret.
In 1901, Patrick is a 'Rivett Heater Shipyard'
Were there any children born after 1911 - mother's maiden name would be shown in birth registers.
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Thanks.
1891 and 1901 have a Patrick Welsh b 1884/5 Sunderland. Parents Patrick and Margaret.
In 1901, Patrick is a 'Rivett Heater Shipyard'
This is him in the next census.
Patrick Welsh MARRIED boarder 26 b Durham, Sunderland. b 1885
Relationship to Head of Household Boarder
Occupation Rivetters Holder Up at Shipyard
and this is who I am guessing is his wife, I don`t know about any later children , I am looking back from Helena.
Address 158 Dryden St , Scotland, Liverpool
Margaret Welsh Head of Household 26 born Liverpool Lancs
Married / 7 Years Total Children Born Alive 3 Children Still Living 3
Helena Welsh Daughter 4 b Liverpool
Elizabeth Welsh Daughter 1 b Liverpool
Margaret Welsh Daughter 1 b Liverpool
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If Helena is your ancestor, it would be best to get the birth certificate to see what information shows there.
There is a birth for Ellen in 1907 which is possibly her.
There is a published tree which has the same Patrick Welsh marrying a Jane McKenna in Durham :-\ and Free BMD has children with these names.
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How do you know that Helena's father is Patrick? Is that from a marriage certificate?
There is another tree which has Henry Welsh and Margaret Rennie as parents of a Helena.
Free BMD has a marriage for Harry Welsh and Margaret Rennie in 1904.
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Marriages Dec 1935
Bailey Stanley F / Welsh Liverpool N 8b 1117
Welsh Helena R / Bailey Liverpool N. 8b 1117
The above marriage is definately correct .
As yet I don`t have the marriage certificate, this is all for a friend who wants to know more about her family.
Details are rather sketchy so far.
She is the daughter of this couple and has the middle name of Douglas,
My friend was born in Conway.
I think that these may be the deaths but am not able find ages as Free BMD stops before then.
BAILEY Helena, Wales Caernarvonshire, Bangor 1975
BAILEY Stanley Frederick, Wales Caernarvonshire, Aberconwy 1976
He did say that the family had something to do with the shipbuilding trade, but I guess that can be said of most of the families in Birkenhead / Liverpool .
I did say I was guessing Patrick was the father, and that`s why I was looking for the marriage .
I have contacted her and said we really do need the marriage certificate first for father, and then birth certificate for mother.
I was hoping they would be somewhere on a site like Lancs Parish Clerks, but not found them so far.
Thanks for your help.
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Hi again,
Margaret Rennie was born Margaret Douglas Rennie so I would say that you need the Harry Welsh/Margaret Rennie marriage.
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Wonderful, many thanks.
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Helena Bailey birth 12 Mar 1907 death Jul qu 1975 Bangor
Stanley Frederick 22 Apr 1912 death Apr qu 1976 Aberconwy
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22 Nov 1904 Liverpool St Nicholas
Harry Welsh 21 bachelor labourer of 6 Doncaster Street father Andrew Welsh deceased cooper
Margaret Rennie 19 spinster 6 Doncaster Street father John Rennie deceased porter
witnesses Michael Fagan or Hagan and Margaret Donohue
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Thanks Isobell.
I had worked out that Margaret was only about 18 when she married, and that the one I found living alone with her children, including Helena was about the same age.
I found a couple of Henry Welsh` s registered in Liverpool, but just to throw a spanner in the works. ::)
Same time as Margaret is alone in Liverpool I have found
14 Margaret Street, Llanbeblig , Carnarvon
Mary Ann Harris head widow 61 b Bristol
Harry Welsh married boarder 26 corrugated iron worker b Renfrew Greenoch
There are also 2 other married boarders doing the same type of work, one born Everton the other West Derby.
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That could be your man.
1891 - Andrew Welsh and his family, including son Henry- all born Scotland are living in Liverpool. Andrew is a Cooper.
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Thanks , so Henry would be about 8 or 9 .
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Thanks , so Henry would be about 8 or 9 .
Ah - no! He is 5 years. 1901 - he is 15 yrs. So if this is the same one he would only be 18 yrs on marriage. :-\
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These ages seem to be close enough, I wonder if he was fibbing a little about his age.
His wife Margaret was only 19.
22 Nov 1904 Liverpool St Nicholas
Harry Welsh 21 (b c 1883 )bachelor labourer of 6 Doncaster Street father Andrew Welsh deceased cooper
From 1911
Harry Welsh married boarder 26 corrugated iron worker b Renfrew Greenoch b c 1885
1901 - he is 15 yrs
1891 Ah - no! He is 5 years,
I don`t have access to census so am trying to fill in the gaps.
This seems to be his fathers death, Its the only one between 1891 and 1904,
Deaths Dec 1901 WELSH Andrew 53 Islington Liverpool ISL/136/25 (b c 1848)
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Margaret Welsh is a witness to the marriage of
Mary Rennie aged 29 years,and Joseph Haydon
Liverpool St Peter
13th July 1908
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1901 census has Andrew and family at 3 Reading Street Everton
there is a baptism for their youngest son
John Welsh 8 May 1901 birth 5 Feb 1901
also Alexander Russell Welsh baptism 23 Jan 1899 both baptisms Everton
Elizabeth Welsh 16 Feb 1896 Portland Square baptism St Peters C of E Liverpool
Marion Ferguson Welsh baptised 24 Nov 1902 same as above
George Malcolm Welsh 10 Apr 1894 Opie Street baptised 9 May 1894 St Peters Liverpool
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I dont have any credits but there is 1 birth on Scotlandpeople 1885-87 Henry Welsh in Renfrewshire Greenock.might be worth looking
there are 6 marriages on Ancestry for the children of Andrew Welsh
2 in 1911 and Andrew is a cooper but neither say deceased.
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Do we have a name for Andrew`s wife ?
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Margaret Welsh is a witness to the marriage of
Mary Rennie aged 29 years,and Joseph Haydon
Liverpool St Peter
13th July 1908
Does this give the name and occupation of the father , and where are you getting these details from ?
Thanks .
I may have to start another thread for the Rennie`s ;)
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Mary Rennie aged 28 years,spinster of Rose Place
father John a labourer
witness to marriage
Margaret Welsh and Eliza Williams
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22 Nov 1904 Liverpool St Nicholas
Harry Welsh 21 bachelor labourer of 6 Doncaster Street father Andrew Welsh deceased cooper
Margaret Rennie 19 spinster 6 Doncaster Street father John Rennie deceased porter
witnesses Michael Fagan or Hagan and Margaret Donohue
These are nearly as bad as John Jones in Wales. ::)
Next census
Class: RG14; Piece: 22487; ; .
80 Gordon Street Liverpool : North Everton
Andrew Welsh 48 head married , cooper b Daly Scotland
Elizabeth Welsh 46
Andrew Welsh 21
Jane Welsh 20
William Welsh 18
Elizabeth Welsh 15
Alaxander Welsh 13
John Welsh 10
Robert Welsh 7
Margaret Welsh 2
Agnes Welsh 7/12
Is this the same family ?
1901 census has Andrew and family at 3 Reading Street Everton
there is a baptism for their youngest son
John Welsh 8 May 1901 birth 5 Feb 1901
also Alexander Russell Welsh baptism 23 Jan 1899 both baptisms Everton
Elizabeth Welsh 16 Feb 1896 Portland Square baptism St Peters C of E Liverpool
Marion Ferguson Welsh baptised 24 Nov 1902 same as above
George Malcolm Welsh 10 Apr 1894 Opie Street baptised 9 May 1894 St Peters Liverpool