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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Leicestershire => Topic started by: Annie65115 on Tuesday 23 October 12 23:10 BST (UK)

Title: Lole, Kibworth
Post by: Annie65115 on Tuesday 23 October 12 23:10 BST (UK): Anne Lole b around 1760 married William Bale in Kibworth Beauchamp in 1784.

I cannot trace these Loles in Kibworth though the PRs mention a William Lole who married in 1730, and who is buried in the churchyard at Kibworth; and witnesses at William Bale's parent's wedding (1759, Kibworth) were Thomas and William Lole. The PRs are otherwise silent on the Lole family.

I thought that maybe they were noncon but there's no Loles at all on the noncon baptisms and burials disc.

Can anyone help with any more Lole info or suggestions?
Title: Re: Lole, Kibworth
Post by: Mike from Leicester on Wednesday 24 October 12 00:07 BST (UK): Greeting’s again Annie.......

Lole Marriages 1754 ~ 1800.

St: Mary de Castro Leicester.

1786. John. ~ Ann Elgrave.
1790. Joseph. ~ Elizabeth Smith.

Aylestone
.
1787.Joseph. Of Lawton. ~ Mary Bunney.

Lutterworth.

1800. William of Bitteswell. ~ Elizabeth Curtis.

Females 1754 ~ 1800.

Kibworth Beauchamp
1766. Mary Lole ~ Thomas Robinson.

Sorry your 1784 Ann Lole ~ William Bale DID NOT show up….

MIKE. …….
Title: Re: Lole, Kibworth
Post by: Annie65115 on Wednesday 24 October 12 11:29 BST (UK): That's OK, Mike, I've seen the Kibworth PRs and they're definitely there, even if they've not been transcribed onto your disc.

Thanks for looking. The Kibworth Loles remain a mystery.
Title: Re: Lole, Kibworth
Post by: Annie65115 on Monday 23 February 15 21:17 GMT (UK): Bump! Still no sign of my elusive Loles. Does anyone else have this surname in their Leic family?
Title: Re: Lole, Kibworth
Post by: Truebrit on Monday 23 February 15 22:20 GMT (UK): Hi

Looking at some of my resources, i see:

1) A settlement order for a Samuel Lole in 1786 in respect of Lubenham (records at Leicester Records Office, reference 1369/49/3);
2) A removal order for a Samuel Lole on 10/12/1833 1st Parish Market Harborough and 2nd Parish Desborough, Northampton (ref QS3/502/4);
3) Archdeaconry Wills:
1790   Lole   Joses     Yeoman     Laughton   PR/T/   1790/113
1770   Lole   Mary     Widow     Kibworth Beauchamp   PR/T/   1770/141/1-2
1787   Lole   Samuel        Lubenham   PR/T/   1787/119   Administration only
1765   Lole   William        Kibworth Beauchamp   PR/T/   1765/134
1674   Lole   Christopher        Laughton   37
1716   Lole   John        Wigston Parva   Fiche 16
1720   Lole   Joseph        Ratcliffe Culey   Fiche 25
1593   Lole   Roger        Gilmorton   21
1722   Lole   Sarah   Widow   Littlethorpe   Fiche 15
1606   Lole   Thomas      Ullesthorpe   26
1628,30,31   Lole   William      Catthorpe   314
1615   Lolle   Richard      Ullesthorpe   111 & 121

Hopefully the above might give you leads - particularly the will of Mary Lole at Kibworth in 1770...

The above are all held at the records office in Leicester.

All the best

TB
Title: Re: Lole, Kibworth
Post by: Truebrit on Friday 27 February 15 10:16 GMT (UK): Please let me know how you get on.

I feel sure that one of these Wills will have a clue to where you need to look next.

Regards

TB
Title: Re: Lole, Kibworth
Post by: Annie65115 on Friday 27 February 15 10:57 GMT (UK): Hi; I hope to get to the records office at the end of March so will certainly look and post my results here. Thank you for the info!
Title: Re: Lole, Kibworth
Post by: Annie65115 on Tuesday 24 March 15 16:52 GMT (UK): I've had a look at the wills and they haven't been terribly helpful. William left everything to his beloved wife Mary; Mary left everything to a string of neices and nephews -- presumably they had no children of their own.

There is one Lol nephew mentioned - Cornelius Lole of Waldgrave, Northants but I don't know where that is! I can't see him on familysearch so I'm popping over to the Northants board to see if anyone there can help.
Title: Re: Lole, Kibworth
Post by: Annie65115 on Wednesday 25 March 15 19:56 GMT (UK): A chink of light might be appearing.

Willsy (on the Northants board) spotted the will of Cornelius Lole and this names a brother, Joses Lole, of Laughton.

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=716511.new#new

I see that there's a will for Joses listed above! And of course I was at the records office yesterday and don't know where I'll be there again -- if anyone is going there and has time to glance at Joses's will and see if it mentions any other family I'd be most grateful ----
Title: Re: Lole, Kibworth
Post by: willsy on Wednesday 25 March 15 21:00 GMT (UK): Thought maybe there would be something for him in google books, instead found another marriage for

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01f0q/

At Birmingham Susannah Lole of Bitteswell Spinster marrying Thomas Bailey 1803
marriage witness are Mary Smith John Allen
marriage is online
Title: Re: Lole, Kibworth
Post by: Truebrit on Wednesday 25 March 15 21:11 GMT (UK): It's good to see that you are making progress and that a family tree is starting to appear. Hopefully you will be able to make the ties you want or be able to build a good circumstantial case together!

TB
Title: Re: Lole, Kibworth
Post by: Annie65115 on Wednesday 25 March 15 21:31 GMT (UK): More details of Mary Lole's will - when she says "cousin" I presume she also means cousin by marriage:

Mary Roper m William Lole 1730
Mary died 1770

beneficiaries:
nephew Thomas Robason/Robinson and his daughter Ann
Niece Jane Roper
Jeremiah Jackson
nephew John Lole of Leicester
nephew and niece Cornelius Lole and Sarah Gibson of Waldgrave, Northants
Title: Re: Lole, Kibworth
Post by: willsy on Wednesday 25 March 15 22:23 GMT (UK): Going by the list

Kibworth Beauchamp   23-Nov   1766   B
Mary   Lole   OTP
Thomas    Robinson   OTP

Walgrave 25 Sep 1767
Sarah Lole Sp OTP married John Gibson Bach OTP

I can find a Jeremiah Jackson in google books and

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01f0t/

this one is the poll book at Kibworth Beauchamp 1775

Kibworth Beauchamp   04-Apr   1760   B
Jeremiah   Jackson   OTP
Ann   Bird   OTP

Don't know if it is coincidence but when William Lole marries Ann Stephens
Marriage Date:    4 Nov 1806
Marriage Place:    Handsworth, St Mary, England

Joseph and Mary Bird are witnesses
William Lole has signed the register
Title: Re: Lole, Kibworth
Post by: willsy on Wednesday 25 March 15 23:12 GMT (UK): Freereg has Sarah's marriage, witnesses are Richd and John Jaques

And a John Lole marriage witness at Kibworth

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01f0u/

Page 24 Entry 95 in the register.
On 27 December 1764, after banns, William FREAR of Great GLENN, Leics. was married to Ann WEBSTER of this parish. Both bride & groom made their 'mark' in the register. Witnesses : John SMITH & John LOLE.
(Banns were published on 9, 16 & 23 December 1764 by the Rector of Kibworth, Peter SHUTER, at St. Wilfrid's Parish Church, Kibworth Beauchamp, Leics. )

But I couldn't find Jeremiah's marriage, did find a will!

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D3380688
Title: Re: Lole, Kibworth
Post by: willsy on Wednesday 25 March 15 23:35 GMT (UK): Just found the will online, off for a read ;D
Title: Re: Lole, Kibworth
Post by: Annie65115 on Thursday 26 March 15 09:37 GMT (UK): This is all great detective work --- but I am struggling to piece it together wrt my Ann Lole.

I had thought that Mary and William were maybe her grandparents but it seems they had no children. However I wonder if they were related via cousins etc -- but I can't work it out, not least because we're short of baptism dates and places!

Loles mentioned so far:
William -- married in Kibworth in 1730, died in 1865. His wife Mary nee Roper (d 1770) who describes people as cousin.

My Ann Lole (my 5gt grandmother) m William Bale in KB in 1784. Possibly present in the 1841 census aged 78, born in county, but name spelled "Bail" and I am reluctant to leap to conclusions that this is def her as there were Bale and Bail families in KB!

Sarah Lole ("cousin") m in Walgrave in 1767

Mary Lole m Thomas Robinson ("cousin) in KB in 1766

John Lole (cousin) of Leicester - some time in the 1700s

Cornelius Lole ("cousin"), gentleman of St James in Middlesex, possible married in 1760 at age 40 (according to licence), died 1780 London

Cornelius's brother Joses Lole of Laughton, will 1790

I suspect that "cousin" was used loosely here simply to mean "kin". But how on earth do all these folk link together?!!
Title: Re: Lole, Kibworth
Post by: Annie65115 on Thursday 26 March 15 19:01 GMT (UK): Jeremiah Jackson ("cousin" of Mary Lole nee Roper)

Living in Kibworth in 1768 -- woolcomber (apprentice duty records)
Probate issued 12.9.1789. Living in Kibworth. Grocer. Estate in Ashley in Northants.
Brother William Jackson (dec); his children Jeremiah, William, Ann
Sister Hannah Laundon(?) (dec); her son Jeremiah; his son also Jeremiah (not yet 21) and daughter Hannah (not yet 21)
Niece Mary Neale wife of William Neale
Niece Hannah Bryan
Niece Maria Laundon (?) wife of Samuel Laundon of Naseby (Samuel Laundon m Maria Laundon 1771 Naseby)
Niece Ann Linnaker (wife of Abraham and sister of Maria Laundon) (Ann Landen m Abraham Linnecar in Naseby in 1779)
Brother Thomas Jackson; another brother John and his widow Ann
Sister Hannah Laundon of Naseby (alive!)
Cousin Mary Rogers of Rushton(?)
Late wife's sister Jane Stafford of Laughton

not sure if that gets me anywhere other than showing some more Northants links
Title: Re: Lole, Kibworth
Post by: Annie65115 on Thursday 26 March 15 19:59 GMT (UK): Will of Cornelius Lole, gentleman, St James, Westminster; probate issued 5 Feb 1780

Land at Laughton nr Mkt Harborough currently in occupation of brother Joses Lole

Benjamin Sims, farmer, of Marston. Northants

cousin Joseph Sims
Title: Re: Lole, Kibworth
Post by: willsy on Thursday 26 March 15 20:55 GMT (UK): Found a death in the paper

Leicester Chronicle 22 October 1842
On the 6th inst.. at Kibworth Beauchamp, in her 83rd year, Mrs. Anne Bale
Title: Re: Lole, Kibworth
Post by: Annie65115 on Thursday 26 March 15 21:24 GMT (UK): Yes, that's the one I think was my ancestor.
Title: Re: Lole, Kibworth
Post by: Annie65115 on Thursday 26 March 15 21:36 GMT (UK): I've just tracked down a photo I once took of William and Mary's gravestone at Kibworth; this is the inscription:

To
The memory of
William Lole
and Mary his wife

He died March 20
1765 aged 68 years

She died July the 6th
1770 aged 93 years

I hadn't noticed that age difference before! It doesn't sound terribly likely but the photo looks clear enough! It would account for their not having had any children when they married in 1730!

Anyway, that gives useful potential dob for William of 1697 (and for Mary of 1677 -- the cradle snatcher!)
Title: Re: Lole, Kibworth
Post by: willsy on Saturday 28 March 15 00:35 GMT (UK): Just thought I would note this one from the Northants stray marriages

Thomas Lander Naseby Hannah Jackson OTP 1739 Kibworth Beauchamp Lei BT's

Had a look at Jeremiah's will and think it's Mary Neale married to Edward, had a look at marriages

Kibworth Beauchamp   16-Apr   1770   Banns
Edward   Neal   OTP
Mary   Jackson   OTP
Title: Re: Lole, Kibworth
Post by: Annie65115 on Saturday 28 March 15 18:42 GMT (UK): Just spotted this in the very first reply from Mike (RIP)

Aylestone
.
1787.Joseph. Of Lawton. ~ Mary Bunney.

possibly this = Laughton? Could this be Joses of Laughton? Joses is a strange name but repeated in Cornelius's will, and mentioned re Joses's will himself.
Title: Re: Lole, Kibworth
Post by: Annie65115 on Sunday 29 March 15 18:04 BST (UK): Got some more info re Jeremiah Jackson, Mary Lole's "cousin";

bapt 1719 Kibworth, father "Jer" ( no mother's name given)
Siblings bapt at KB: Hannah 1718, William 1722, John 1727 (ties in perfectly with JJ's will)
Jeremiah Snr seems to have died in 1744.

I can't see a marriage for Jeremiah snr and of course what I want is his wife's m/name! Can anyone see it anywhere? I'm going to start a linked thread specifically for this to try to catch any new eyes too.
Title: Re: Lole, Kibworth
Post by: willsy on Sunday 29 March 15 22:57 BST (UK): Didn't want to mix the threads, do you think this could be the niece Hannah Bryan,

Kibworth Beauchamp   15-Nov   1779   B
Hannah   Jackson   OTP
Robert   Bryan    Saddington

There is a an earlier another marriage for a Hannah Jackson too.

Am a bit stuck as he lists children of William then nieces but no father's name for them

Freereg
Place   Kibworth Beauchamp
Church   St. Wilfrid
Baptism Date   15 Jun 1752
Forename    Hannah
Father Forename   William
Mother Forename
Father Surname   JACKSON
Mother Surname
Abode   S.W
Title: Re: Lole, Kibworth
Post by: Annie65115 on Monday 13 April 15 14:10 BST (UK): A big jump forwards today c/o the fiches at the records office!

Will of Joses Lole, yeoman of Laughton; written 19.9.1787, probate issued 26.4.1790
His children are listed in this order: Son in law Edward Carter and Elizabeth his wife (messuage in Laughton to them)
then everything split evenly between his sons and daughters Daniel Lole, Joseph Lole, Sarah wife of John Gibson of Walgrave; Elizabeth (as above); Ann wife of William Bale; Hannah wife of Thomas Swingler of Kibworth Harcourt.

So then I looked at the BMD fiches for Laughton; they begin at 1754 which is not quite early enough!! But I got these baptisms, all for children of Joses and Mary Lole:
Daniel 14 Oct 1754; Elizabeth 18.4.1756; Alice 19.7.1758; Joseph 13.4.1760; James 1.7.1762; Ann June 1765 (not fully leg); Hannah 19.10.1766

Also of interest:
Burial Jan 3 1761; Ann Lole in the 101 year of her age

and possibly Josas's wife
burial (full date illeg) 1774 Mary wife of Jos Low (couldn't see any other Lows in the BMDs so suspect this should be Lole).

So that's my Ann bapt 1765, about whom I started this thread - brick wall crumbling at last after several years!

I would guess from the order of offspring given in the will that Sarah was probably the oldest and as she married in 1767 I'd guess a marriage for Joses and Mary around 1750ish. Such a shame that the Laughton fiches don't go back that far!
Title: Re: Lole, Kibworth
Post by: Annie65115 on Monday 13 April 15 14:15 BST (UK): (Break in thread to try to avoid confusion!)

So Mary Lole nee Roper, who married William in 1730, described Cornelius Lole as "nephew". Cornelius described Joses as "brother". Mary also described Sarah Gibson of Walgrave as "niece" but in fact she was Joses's daughter.

Please correct me if I'm wrong but does this work?

William Lole b around 1698 according to his tombstone -- must have had at least one brother, X.
X had children including Cornelius (b 1720 according to his marriage licence) and Joses -- who would then have been William's nephews (so Mary's nephews by marriage)
and if this is correct, Joses children (inc my Ann) would have been Wm and Mary's great nieces and nephews

???

I couldn't see the listed will for Christopher Lole at the records office but if he was in Laughton in the 1600s, perhaps the Loles did come from there but the records have disappeared.
Title: Re: Lole, Kibworth
Post by: Truebrit on Monday 13 April 15 19:28 BST (UK): How great to see the progress that you have made.

Glad that the Will info provided earlier has been both of assistance and of interest.

Regards

TB
Title: Re: Lole, Kibworth
Post by: willsy on Monday 13 April 15 20:00 BST (UK): Hoping to make your day even better, have you spotted this one? just came across it

Freedom of the City Admission Papers, 1681-1925
Name:    John Lole
Residence County:    Lece
Admission Date:    8 May 1674
Master's Name:    Bartholomew Robinson.....Citizen and haberdasher in London
Father's name:    Christopher Lole

Christopher of Laughton
Can't read exactly what is says in the county of, looks like ??? yeoman
Title: Re: Lole, Kibworth
Post by: Annie65115 on Monday 13 April 15 20:58 BST (UK): Where did you find that, Willsy? Did it say of which city the freedoom was being awarded?
Title: Re: Lole, Kibworth
Post by: willsy on Monday 13 April 15 21:19 BST (UK): It's an apprenticeship record on Anc* John apprenticed to Bartholomew in London, original doc.
Title: Re: Lole, Kibworth
Post by: willsy on Monday 13 April 15 21:55 BST (UK): Ever hopeful of the time frame and a maybe as there are very few baptisms for the surname

London, England, Baptisms, Marriages and Burials, 1538-1812
Name:    John Lole
Marriage Date:    24 Dec 1685
Parish:    Holy Trinity Minories
County:    London
Borough:    City of London
Spouse:    Margaret Bengs
Record Type:    Marriage
Register Type:    Parish Register

John bach. of St Boltolpe Bishopsgate

On the other site thought these were interesting

Westminster baptisms

HENRY LOLE
Birth year    1750
Baptism year    1750
Baptism day    28
Baptism month    Apr
Parish    St Paul, Covent Garden
Father's first name(s)    Cornelius
Mother's first name(s)    Anne
County    Middlesex

CORNELIUS LOLE
Birth year    1790
Birth day    25
Birth month    Jan
Baptism year    1790
Baptism day    14
Baptism month    Mar
Parish    St James, Piccadilly
Father's first name(s)    Daniel
Mother's first name(s)    Martha
County    Middlesex

England, Births & Baptisms 1538-1975

Margarett Lole
Gender    Female
Baptism year    1681
Baptism date    19 Nov 1681
Place    Harborough Magna
County    Warwickshire
Country    England
Father's first name(s)    Daniel
Father's last name    Lole
Mother's first name(s)    Margarett

Daniel Lole
Baptism year    1786
Baptism date    27 Aug 1786
Residence    Westminster, Middlesex, England
Place    Westminster
County    Middlesex
Country    England
Father's first name(s)    Dan.L
Father's last name    -
Mother's first name(s)    Martha
Title: Re: Lole, Kibworth
Post by: Annie65115 on Monday 13 April 15 23:02 BST (UK): Henry's father Cornelius was bro to Joses. I haven't found any other children born to him, and he left nothing to any children in his will.

However I'm interested in the Daniel name cropping up again in connection with a Cornelius. Joses had a son called Daniel; I think Joses's son Joseph also had a son Daniel (they are in leic in the 1841) and I just wonder if the Daniel in London in the late 1700s was Joses son? Perhaps gone to London with the support of his uncle Cornelius? Hmmm. You seem to have sharper eyes than me, or more resources! Any marriage anywhere for Daniel and Martha? Daniel and Cornelius certainly seem to have been family names.
Title: Re: Lole, Kibworth
Post by: willsy on Monday 13 April 15 23:11 BST (UK): We are thinking on the same lines about family, just luck there was a son Daniel and I looked at Lole baptisms again, typically all I can find for a Daniel is

England, Boyd's marriage indexes, 1538-1850
Daniel Lole
Marriage year    1784
Place    Westminster St George Hanover Square
Source    Boyd's marriage index, 1538-1850
County    London
Country    England
no bride named
Title: Re: Lole, Kibworth
Post by: Annie65115 on Monday 13 April 15 23:17 BST (UK): Just found the 1732 will of John lole, haberdasher of London , he mentions his brother William lole of leicest! And Daniel and Cornelius lole- but doesn't say what relation they are to him (Grrr!)

I've got an early start tomorrow, I should be going to sleep--/
Title: Re: Lole, Kibworth
Post by: willsy on Monday 13 April 15 23:38 BST (UK): Just had to have a quick look too!
Off to bed...
Title: Re: Lole, Kibworth
Post by: Aussie67 on Tuesday 14 April 15 08:53 BST (UK): Hi,

My 4th Great Grandmother was Sarah Lole who married John Gibson on 25th September 1767 in Walgrave. Firstly, thank you for confirming that it was Sarah Lole as the name in the register was neatly written and there has been a big debate as to whether she was LOLE, COLE or LOVE

The information was obtained from:-
The Transcripts of Cold Ashby Parish registers by Sidnes Day Spencer
Walgrave Parish Register

The tree was printed in 2008.

Hoping that the information helps. A relative in Canada saw your recent information on Roots Chat and contacted me.
Title: Re: Lole, Kibworth
Post by: Aussie67 on Tuesday 14 April 15 09:03 BST (UK): Hi,

Just realised that, yes, my ancestor was Sarah Lole but I have her with the incorrect parents! Back to the drawing board.
Title: Re: Lole, Kibworth
Post by: Annie65115 on Tuesday 14 April 15 14:42 BST (UK): Hello Aussie

well, there doesn't seem much doubt as to her parentage when she is named in her father's will as his married daughter!

I have seen some trees on Ancestry that have Sarah baptised in the 1740s in Cold Ashby, Northants, but haven't seen any evidence for this. Since parental names weren't given on the ancestry tree, it's possible of course that this was guesswork based on her marriage details. Do you know any more than this?
Title: Re: Lole, Kibworth
Post by: Aussie67 on Wednesday 15 April 15 08:52 BST (UK): Explanation of the possible Cold Ashby connection for Lole.
I did preliminary research on my ancestors during a visit to Northampton in 1980 but didn’t start doing much more until the 1990s. By 2000, I had been corresponding with fellow researchers of Walgrave families. At this time, it was suggested that William Gibson married Sarah Lole (not Love or Cole) in 1767. Someone checked their records and noticed that a LOLE family were living in Cold Ashby, Northamptonshire.
At this time, I was in Salt Lake City and found that there was a Sarah Lole (born in Cold Ashby) whose birth was in the correct years. I also found someone’s written research listing the LOLE family in Cold Ashby. Unfortunately, I did not check the Wills (time was short). I formed the LOLE Family Tree with the hope that another researcher would correspond with me. No luck and yes, the information went through various people.
Yes, Annie, it pays to be patient as I would never have realized that there was a Leicestershire link.
The Tree that I formed is attached to one of my replies but as far as I can see there’s no connection to the Lole Family in Leicestershire.

Now, to try and find more information about the correct Lole Family.
Title: Re: Lole, Kibworth
Post by: Aussie67 on Wednesday 15 April 15 08:57 BST (UK): It may be morning in the UK but I've had a long day and yes, I already have to make a correction. Sarah Lole did marry John Gibson.
Title: Re: Lole, Kibworth
Post by: willsy on Wednesday 15 April 15 19:46 BST (UK): Maybe it's this one

Sarah Lolle parents John, Junior and Susanna 3 Jan 1742 Cold Ashby
There's also
Mary 1728
Elizabeth 1729 born Dec 11 Bap Privately 13 Dec
Anne 1732 11 Jan
Samuel 1734 5 May
John 1736 5 Dec
Henry 1739 17 Jun

All Lolle Cold Ashby
Title: Re: Lole, Kibworth
Post by: willsy on Wednesday 15 April 15 20:52 BST (UK): Back to Daniel and good old FreeReg

Found the bride, and matches the baptism records you now have for Cornelius and Daniel
County   Middlesex
Place   St George Hanover Square
Church   St George Hanover Square Tr
MarriageDate   18 Feb 1784
Groom Forename   Daniel
Groom Surname   LOLE
Bride Forename   Martha
Bride Surname   SWATRIDGE

and then on F** as Swotridge and it's the parish entry. Didn't think to look for Sole :)
Title: Re: Lole, Kibworth
Post by: willsy on Wednesday 15 April 15 22:46 BST (UK): Hope I'm not confusing too much, but for a John Lole there is a marriage

Boyd's
John Lole
Marriage year    1684
Spouse's first name(s)    Susan
Spouse's last name    Binion
Place    Faculty Office Marriage Licences

On FreeReg

Place    Covent Garden
Church    St Paul Tr
Burial Date    24 Aug 1704
Forename    Susan
Rel 1 Male Forename    John
Rel 1 Surname   LOLE
Surname   LOLE

and

Place   Cowley
Church   St Laurence Ph
MarriageDate    14 Apr 1706
Groom Forename   John
Groom Surname   LOLE
Groom Parish    St Pauls Covent Garden
Bride Forename   Mary
Bride Surname   TOOTHAKER

In Cornelius's will there is a cousin Timothy Sims

London, England, Freedom of the City Admission Papers, 1681-1925
Name:    Timothy Sims
Residence County:    Leicester
Admission Date:    3 Jan 1745
Master's Name:    Thomas Howitt....Haberdasher
Father's name:    Joseph Sims

but I can't make out where in Leicester Joseph is from

and also found

Benjamin Sims
Admission Date:    1713-1714
Father's name:    Timotheo Sims

shame this is so late

England & Wales, Prerogative Court of Canterbury Wills, 1384-1858
Timothy Sims
Probate Date:    30 Sep 1853
Residence:    Kibworth Beauchamp, Leicestershire, England

Just gone back to Northants marriages, there's a place called Howthorpe, wonder if that is what is written on the papers for where Joseph is from
Title: Re: Lole, Kibworth
Post by: Aussie67 on Sunday 19 April 15 06:53 BST (UK): Hi Annie,

I have just spent most of this afternoon trying to sort out the family tree of our ancestors in Leicestershire.

Below is what I would everyone to look at and make any suggestions or alterations. I will add some comments when I've had my afternoon break.

1 Mr Lole

...2 William Lole b: Abt. 1697, d: 20 Mar 1765 in Kibworth Beauchamp, Leicestershire

+   Mary Roper m: 24 Oct 1730 in Kibworth Beauchamp, Leicestershire d: 16 Jul 1770 in Kibworth Beauchamp, Leicestershire

...2 Joses Lole b: Abt. 1710 in Leicestershire, d: Abt. 1790 in Laughton, Leicestershire

+ Mary d: 1774 in Laughton, Leicestershire

......3 Mary Lole b: Abt. 1744, d: Bef. 1790

+   Thomas Robinson b: Abt. 1744, m: 23 Nov 1766 in Kibworth Beauchamp, Leicestershire

.........4 Ann Robinson b: Abt. 1767 in Leicstershire

......3 Sarah Lole b: Abt. 1745 in Leicstershire, England, d: 1815 in Walgrave, Northamptonshire,

+   John Gibson b: Abt. 1744 in Rothwell, Northamptonshire, m: 25 Sep 1767 in Walgrave, Northamptonshire, , England, d: 1818 in Walgrave, Northamptonshire
......3 Daniel Lole b: Abt. 1754 in Laughton, Leicestershire Baptism: 14 Oct 1754 in Laughton, Leicestershire

......3 Elizabeth Lole b: Abt. 1756 in Laughton, Leicestershire Baptism: 18 Apr 1756 in Laughton, Leicestershire

+ Edward Carter

......3 Alice Lole b: Abt. 1758 in Laughton, Leicestershire, d: Bef. 1790, Baptism: 19 Jul 1758 in Laughton, Leicestershire

......3 Joseph Lole b: Abt. 1760 in Laughton, Leicestershire Baptism: 13 Apr 1760 in Laughton, Leicestershire

+ Mary Bunney m: 22 Jan 1787 in Aylestone, Leicestershire

......3 James Lole b: Abt. 1762 in Laughton, Leicestershire, d: Bef. 1790, Baptism: 01 Jul 1762 in Laughton, Leicestershire

......3 Ann Lole b: Abt. 1765 in Laughton, Leicestershire Baptism: Jun 1765 in Laughton, Leicestershire

+   William Beal m: 08 Aug 1784 in Kibworth Beauchamp, Leicestershire, Also Known As: William Bale

......3 Hannah Lole b: Abt. 1766 in Laughton, Leicestershire Baptism: 19 Oct 1766 in Laughton, Leicestershire

+ Thomas Swingler

...2 Cornelius Lole b: Abt. 1720, d: 1780, Sex: Male
+ Ann Williams m: 02 Jun 1760 in St James Clerkenwell
Title: Re: Lole, Kibworth
Post by: Aussie67 on Sunday 19 April 15 08:09 BST (UK): Comments on the Lole Family Tree to all.
I had ‘information overload’ after being told about this connection. It’s taken me a few days to get myself sorted.
The comments below are as I work down the list that I previously sent.
Your views would be appreciated
1.   It would appear that William, Joses and Cornelius are brothers. This is confirmed by their various Wills (I have to accept the interpretations given).

2.   William Lole (b.c. 1697) and wife Mary Roper. It concerns me that the gravestone shows an age for Mary of 93. I doubt that William would have married someone 20 years his senior!
William is listed in the Poll Books and Electoral Role in 1741 in the Gartree One Hundred at Rolleston
3.   I have suggested that Mary Lole, who married Thomas Robinson is also a child of Joses Lole and his wife, Mary.

I also suggest that there could have been a brother Cornelius born between Sarah and Daniel. Sarah Lole and her husband, John Gibson had 4 children and one was Cornelius Gibson born in 1774. Cornelius is new to the Gibson family. Could Sarah have named him after a brother?

4.   As Joses did not name Alice and James in his Will, I have assumed that they died before 1790

5.   Joseph Lole (b.c. 1760). I have recorded him as marrying Mary Bunney BUT there is another marriage on 18 Nov 1790 for a Joseph Lole married to Elizth Smith at St. Mary, Leicester. Could Mary have died? Or were there TWO Joseph Lole born about the same time.

In the 1841 Census a Joseph Lole (b.c. 1760) is living in St. Mary’s Leicester with the following Loles people - Daniel (b.c. 1796), Elizabeth (b.c. 1785), John (b.c. 1827), Elizabeth (b.c. 1831), Emma (b.c. 1833) plus James Dann (b.c. 1793).

6.   I did find the marriage of Ann Lole to William BEAL in Kibworth Beauchamp.

7.   According to the information that has been posted Cornelius Lole (b.c. 1720) married on 2 June 1760 in St James, Clerkenwell to Ann Williams. There is also a mention of Henry (b.c. 1750 (baptized 28 April 1750 at St Paul, Covent Garden). Not sure if this is related!
Title: Re: Lole, Kibworth
Post by: Annie65115 on Sunday 19 April 15 20:15 BST (UK): Quote
2. William Lole (b.c. 1697) and wife Mary Roper. It concerns me that the gravestone shows an age for Mary of 93. I doubt that William would have married someone 20 years his senior!

I would agree - but here's the gravestone, which seems pretty definitive!

I am trying to see if I can sort out some of these late 1800 Loles in London and to try to work out how they link to the Leicester Loles (as they clearly do). I'm hoping to go back to the records office within the next couple of weeks and want to look up a couple more things there too. I'll report back on any new findings!

Aussie, re pt 1 in your post above - Cornelius names Joses as his brother but where did you get William from, and which William?? I would like to think that it was William in KB (gravestone pic here) but there is a long gap between his year of birth and Cornelius's. Not insurmountably long, but too long for me to just assume they were the same generation. Have I overlooked another will?
Title: Re: Lole, Kibworth
Post by: Aussie67 on Sunday 19 April 15 22:43 BST (UK): Hi Annie,

(From Aussie, re pt 1 in your post above - Cornelius names Joses as his brother but where did you get William from, and which William?? I would like to think that it was William in KB (gravestone pic here) but there is a long gap between his year of birth and Cornelius's. Not insurmountably long, but too long for me to just assume they were the same generation. Have I overlooked another will?)

No, I do not have another Will in mind. My assumption that William was a brother to Joses and Cornelius comes from taking Mary Lole's Will as it stands - she refers to nieces and nephews. I would like to be corrected. It is usually to allow about 20 years between marriage and the last child. The gap is bigger then that between the 'brothers'. It could be possible if the mother married young OR that the father had remarried and had another child (or children).
Title: Re: Lole, Kibworth
Post by: Annie65115 on Monday 20 April 15 12:34 BST (UK): OK, chewed over this some more and this is my reading/summary so far -- open to further suggestion/correction!

One error which I realise I may have made is re Mary Lole's will and Cornelius Lole/Sarah Gibson. Did she describe them as cousins or as nephew/niece? I can't remember and I can't find my jottings. Either way though, I think it was generationally flexible as Sarah seems to have been Cornelius' niece, so they were of different generations.

That aside it looks as though we have the following:
1674 - Christopher Lole's will proved Laughton
also 1674 - John Lole, son of Christopher of Laughton, is apprenticed to a haberdasher in London.
(I wonder if C's will left money to cover J's apprenticeship?)
so John was probably b around 1660ish?

John Lole, haberdasher of London, named as paying tax for an apprentice in 1813.

John Lole, haberdasher, of London - will proved 1733 - names (amongst others) Daniel and Cornelius Lole (?relation to him?), and his brother William of Laughton, who has an unnamed wife. William gets £10 and clothes; Daniel gets a coat; D and C both get some money for a ring.

Cornelius Lole, gentleman of London, marries 1760 aged 40. Will 1780 gives his property at Laughton to his brother Joses Lole; also names Benjamin Sims of Marston, Northants, and cousins Timothy and Joseph Sims.

Meanwhile William Lole yob around 1697 m Mary Roper in Kibworth in 1730. William leaves everything to Mary when he dies in 1765; Mary mentions various cousins, or nephews and nieces, including Cornelius Lole and Sarah Gibson, in her will in 1770. Wording suggests C is from Walgrave, Northants, but I will check that. Sarah was def living there by then, Sarah Lole having married John Gibson.

Cornelius's brother Joses is in Laughton by 1754 but records don't go back further than this for Laughton. He and his wife Mary have several children named above, earliest baptism being 1754 (but probably had at least 1 child - Sarah - before this). Joses's will names his children and sons in law.

There are other Loles in London in the late 1600s but I can't see a Leic connection.

I hope to go to the records office again within a fortnight so will double check Mary's will and also have another good look for Christopher's will from 1674; and anything else I can find!
Title: Re: Lole, Kibworth
Post by: Aussie67 on Tuesday 21 April 15 01:17 BST (UK): It's a very wet and stormy day here and we've been told to stay at home. So I've had a quick search for information.
I have now got a copy of Cornelius Lole's Will d. 1780 and will try and transcribe it sometime today.

Have found at least two Lole's apprenticed to people in London. Isaac Lole son of Robert Lole of Burbidge, Leics. (1680) and John Lole son of Chrstopher Lole of Laughton, Leics (1674).

Now for a coffee and a break from searching.

I can't access any Wills from Leicestershire.
Title: Re: Lole, Kibworth
Post by: Aussie67 on Tuesday 21 April 15 01:18 BST (UK): It's a very wet and stormy day here and we've been told to stay at home. So I've had a quick search for information.
I have now got a copy of Cornelius Lole's Will d. 1780 and will try and transcribe it sometime today.

Have found at least two Lole's apprenticed to people in London. Isaac Lole son of Robert Lole of Burbidge, Leics. (1680) and John Lole son of Chrstopher Lole of Laughton, Leics (1674).

Now for a coffee and a break from searching.

I can't access any Wills from Leicestershire.
Title: Re: Lole, Kibworth
Post by: Aussie67 on Tuesday 21 April 15 07:22 BST (UK): Hi Annie,

Sorry about the duplication above. The information wouldn't go! So I tried again.

I have transcribed the Will of Cornelius Lole (d. 1780). It's taken quite a while! It is attached. I'll try and attach the original in another post. Sorry for the gaps. Others might be able to fill in the gaps.
Title: Re: Lole, Kibworth
Post by: Aussie67 on Tuesday 21 April 15 07:29 BST (UK): Oops. the file for the original Will of Cornelius Lole is too big!
Title: Re: Lole, Kibworth
Post by: Annie65115 on Tuesday 21 April 15 16:05 BST (UK): I don't think you'd be allowed to post the entire will anyhow, because of copyright regs.
Title: Re: Lole, Kibworth
Post by: Annie65115 on Saturday 25 April 15 15:45 BST (UK): Not good news regarding further info, I'm afaid.

The reference given for Christopher Lole's will does not match the will held on that microfiche. The lady at the records office tried hard to be helpful and has taken my details, says she will look into this further next week and let me know if she finds anything.

I had a look at the details of the will for Samuel Lole (spelled Loole) of Lubbenham, as Lubbenham is pretty close to Laughton I thought this might be useful - but in fact all it was was letters of administration as he died intestate. So the only info here is that Samuel died in 1787 and had a wife called Ann.

I double checked Mary's will and the exact wording is
"My nephew Cornelius Lole and my niece Sarah Gibson of Waldgrave, Northamptonshire"
Title: Re: Lole, Kibworth
Post by: willsy on Saturday 25 April 15 20:09 BST (UK): Went back to see if I could find Cornelius Lole, noted the Gibsons and wasn't sure what you had

Cornelius Gibson son of John and Sarah baptised at Walgrave C of E 1774 7 Aug
John 1771 25 Dec
Title: Re: Lole, Kibworth
Post by: Aussie67 on Tuesday 28 April 15 09:17 BST (UK): Hi,
Having a few minutes to spare the other day, I searched for the Sims that were mentioned in Cornelius Lole’s Will of 1779 (proved in 1780)

My transcription included
“…. I give and divest all that my freehold estate consisting of two closes of pasture ground situated, lying and being at Laughton near Market Harborough in the county of Leicester with the rights __________ and appurtenances thereto belonging, now in the occupation of my brother, Joses Lole, unto Benjamin Sims of Martson in Northamptonshire [Martson St Lawrence], farmer and his heirs for and during the life of my brother, Joses Lole….”

Timothy and Joseph Sims have too many listings but I did find a reference to Benjamin Sims in ‘Find my Past’ referring to the Northamptonshire and Rutland Probate Index Transcription.
Number – 08 May BENJAMIN SIMS, year 1795, farmer of Marston Trussell. He left a Will.
Oops! I Googled Marston Northamptonshire and got the incorrect one!
Marston Trussell is near Daventry.
Maybe if we could get a copy of this Will, there might be more information about the Lole family.
Title: Re: Lole, Kibworth
Post by: Annie65115 on Tuesday 28 April 15 13:14 BST (UK): Daventry is in Northamptonshire so this may be right ( the only sims I'd found were marston in Oxfordshire which is clearly wrong)
Title: Re: Lole, Kibworth
Post by: willsy on Tuesday 28 April 15 20:47 BST (UK): Have you got this?

UK, Poll Books and Electoral Registers, 1538-1893
Name:    Benjamin Simms
Poll Year:    1775
Parish or Rectory:    Marston Trussles
County:    Leicestershire
Has a freehold in Lubbenham

There's also

Name:    William Lole
Poll Year:    1741
Hundred:    Gartree
Parish or Rectory:    Kibworth Beauchamp
County:    Leicestershire
Freehold Rolleston

Name:    Corelins Lole....Looks like Corolius
Poll Year:    1749
Parish or Rectory:    St Paul Covent Garden and St Martin Le Grand
Henrietta Street Coffeeman

Name:    Cotelius Lole
Poll Year:    1749
Parish or Rectory:    St Paul Covent Garden and St Martin Le Grand
Same details
Title: Re: Lole, Kibworth
Post by: Annie65115 on Monday 28 November 16 16:37 GMT (UK): Updating and ongoing!

I finally got to the Leic records office today.

Christopher Lole m Mary Astell in Husband's Bosworth on July 15 1648. Both OTP. (Mary was either daughter of Thomas Astill b 1625 or William Astill b 1628). I found 2 baptisms for Christopher's and Mary's children at Husband's Bosworth -- Mary, 1651, and Anne 1653. No Loles in the PRs after that. I couldn't identify any Loles before the marriage either but the records are not very easy to read this far back.

Christopher, a husbandsman of Laughton, died intestate there in 1674. Admin was issued to his widow Mary and to Edmund Astill and Thomas Barton. It seems the Loles were reasonably comfortable - estate worth £99 after all debts paid; and literate - two bibles and other books were mentioned in the inventory.

I presume that the family moved to Laughton after Anne's birth. We know from above that they had a son John who went into apprenticeship in London; I'm guessing there must have been at least one other son who stayed in Laughton and was perhaps the father of Joses, Cornelius and maybe William.

The Laughton PRs don't exist pre-1754 so I am stuck re this missing generation.

Anybody got any other ideas?
Title: Re: Lole, Kibworth
Post by: Annie65115 on Sunday 04 October 20 21:29 BST (UK): I'm updating this old thread in case any of the previous participants are interested.

PRs from Laughton pre-1740 are now online! Heaven knows where they were kept -- they weren't at the record office when I looked years ago.

Anyway, some light is shed on the Loles but some things appear less clear.

In a nutshell, one William and Ann Lole baptised 6 children in Laughton between 1684 - 1707. Then there's a gap, then Joses was baptised in 1712. His father was also named as William -- his mother possibly Ann but very difficult to read.

We already know that Christopher had died in 1674, and William and Ann called their second son Christopher, so it's tempting to assume that this older William was Christopher's son.

There's no baptism for a Cornelius and tbh if the first child was 1684, I find it difficult to believe that the last (C) would be born 1720, as per C's marriage licence. But C does state that his brother was Joses --- confusing! Unless, of course, William (snr) married twice?

Re William who died in 1765 - There is no baptism listed, but there is a gap between 1695 – 1707 in the baptisms above, which would fit with William’s yob (1698) according to his tombstone.

Joses Lole married Sarah Cooper in 1737, and had 2 children, John and Ann, before the register ends in 1739. The years from 1739-1754 are missing. There's no burial for Sarah Lole and after 1754, the children all have a mother called Mary, so Sarah must have died and Joses remarried in that timeframe.

I've looked through all the images on screen between 1712 - 1739, rather than relying on transcripts, so hope I've not missed anything.
Title: Re: Lole, Kibworth
Post by: willsy on Saturday 10 October 20 20:52 BST (UK): I have read through again and am still looking!
Don't know if it will help but have have apprentice refs now, no microfiche number so not sure what is at the records office

Joseph Lole is in Leicester for all of the records below

Father Joseph Lole
Daniel was apprenticed to his father 1811 FWK
Samuel was apprenticed to his father 1812 FWK

Apprenticed to Joseph Lole FWK
1793 Robert Smith son of Henry Smith, Leicester Woolcomber
1795 John Branson son of Richard Branson, Woolcomber of Great Wigston
1796 William Bell from Overseers Leicester St. Martin's until the age of 21
1801 Samuel Cutler son of John Cutler Deceased, Leicester Coachman for 6 years
1803 Joseph Ashby from Overseers Kibworth Harcourt until the age of 21
1804 William Horrobin son of William Horrobin Deceased, Leicester Gardener

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