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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Dumfriesshire => Topic started by: Yonks Ago on Friday 26 October 12 12:17 BST (UK)
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Thomas CARYLE b 1796 at Ecclefechan Dumfries
..parents James CARYLE b 1758 and Margaret AITKEN b 1771.
Would any one know who James's siblings were.
many thanks
Yonks Ago
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I have a biography published in (I think) 1894 re Thomas Carlyle.
This states that James (his father ) had four brothers and two daughters.
Thomas was the second son. It names his elder brother as John and for what is worth a sister as Fanny.
I have not read both volumes in any detail. The above information
is from the first couple of chapters ie the Introduction mainly.
Reiver
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Reiver,
I wonder if he had a brother William born abt 1760... family "talk" is that my William was James's brother!!
yonks8
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The biography of Thomas says that his parents were Thomas Carlyle and Mary Gillespie.
Have you tried looking at either the IGI website or the main Scottish one for your William's baptism/birth and with luck who both his parent's were?
Reiver
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Reiver,
Thomas CARLYLE and Mary GILLESPIE were the parents of James..were they not?
The trouble is my William was in Middlesex Eng..yes have looked at IGI heaps of William's..will need to take another look..AGAIN..
yonks8
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Here are two photographs of memorials in Ecclefechan kirkyard to add to the mix.
And a third MI but no photo.
This one is from a memorial in Pennersaughs graveyard in Middlebie Parish
Here lies
John CARLYLE in Burrance, who died 11th March 1727 age 40 years
Also Thomas CARLYLE his son, who died in Ecclefechan 16th January 1806 age 84 years
Also Mary GILESPY his spouse, who died in the same place 10th January 1797 age 70 years
Also John CARLYLE, mason in Ecclefechan, their son, he died 12th October 1801 age 47 years
Also Thomas CARLYLE, son of the above Thomas CARLYLE, he died at Mainhill 9th June 1816 age 40 years
Cheers,
Sy
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Johnner Kid,
Thank You Thank You so much for that..Wow!!
if only I could now find a son William.
Again Thank You
yonks8
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Don't know if any of these are the William you seek but here are three references to a William Carlyle from the MIs for Ecclefechan Graveyard in Hoddam Parish, Dumfriesshire. Carlyle burials are found in all of the main four graveyards in Hoddam Parish.
1. Here lyes Helen CARLYLE, daughter to William CARLYLE in Middlewhats, who died 3rd August 1775 aged 1 year and 3 months
Also William CARLYLE, his son, who died 8th July 1777 aged 2 years and 3 months
2. In Memory of William CARLYLE, who died in Eaglesfield 18th June 1857 aged 74 years
Also Mary CARRUTHERS, his spouse, who died 13th May 1862 aged 84 years And Margaret, their daughter, who died in Boston, America, 29th November 1845 aged 31 years
Also Robert, their son, who died 18th June 1846 aged 27 years at Meinmill
3. In Memory of William CARLYLE in Sandbed, who died 9th January 1776 aged 64 years
Also Ellen BLACK, his wife, who died 28th December 1775 aged 63 years
Also Ellen, daughter of Robert CARLYLE in Trailtrow, their son, who died 20th December 1785 aged 13 months And the said Robert CARLYLE, who died there 16th September 1797 aged 55 years Also Martha RAE, his wife, who died there 1804 aged 66 years
Also Martha, daughter to William CARLYLE in Trailtrow, son of the above Robert CARLYLE, who died 1814 aged 2 years
Also Jane BRYDEN, his wife, who died at Williamwath 1825 aged 36 years
And the said William CARLYLE, who died at Gibsonshill, Tundargarth, 19th June 1857 aged 74 years
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Hi there,
I have Thomas Carlyle 1725 - 1793 of Sorriesyke and his spouse Isabella Dixon born 1728. Both are buried at Pennersaughs.
Does anyone have any info on them or how they fit in?
cheers
Norma
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Hi Jonner kid,
The Carlyles you have listed in your post dated 30/10/12 in the 3rd MI are my family (From start of MI directly up until Robert and Martha). My lineage then follows their daughter Mary (1781-25/04/1856). Just wondering if you have any knowledge of wether or not the stone is still there?
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I have an Agnes Carlyle (born Abt 1785ish date not clear on gravestone!) in my tree. She married a Samuel Wells. They both died in Middlebie a stones throw from where the rest of the Carlyles were born and died. I can not find her parents anywhere. I had thought she could be James' sister, but this chat has lead me to believe that is not so. Anyone help me with some parents for her?!
Thanks
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Well better late than never I guess for the reply to this post.
James Carlyle was married twice. His first wife Jannet Carlyle (daughter of John Carlyle and Euphemia Todd) died after childbirth (3 days if I remember correctly).
Child of James Carlyle and Jannet Carlyle:
John Carlyle 1792-1872 * He lived with his grandparents in Sandbed and lived in England and later immigrated with his family to the USA and eventually Ontario, Canada where he is buried. He married Margaret "Peggy" Benn. They had several children one of which was named William who was born 25 Dec 1834 in Brigham, Cumberland, England and died 25 Jun 1911 in Woodstock, Oxford, Ontario, Canada
Children of James Carlyle and his second wife Margaret Aitken:
1. Thomas 4 Dec 1795- 5 Feb 1881 * famous Author* m. Jane Baillie Welsh
2. Alexander 1797-1872 m. Janet Clowe
3. Janet 1799-1801
4. Dr. John Aitken 1801-1879 m. Phoebe Elizabeth Hough Watt
5. Margaret 1803-1830 - never married
6. James 1805-1890 m. Isabella Calvert
7. Mary C 1808-1888 m. James Austin
8. Jane "Craw Jane" 1810-1888 m. James Aitken
9. Janet 1813-1897 m. Robert Hanning
I do have the exact birth and death dates if you need, but just posted the years here to make a quick post.
Hope this helps!
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Hi Norma
I realise you posted a while ago but I've only recently seen your message.
Thomas Carlyle and Isabella Dixon were my 5xg grandparents. Their daughter Isabella (b.1771 Sorrysyke, St Mungo d.1858 Carthat, Lochmaben) married John Richardson and I am descended from that line.
I have also been trying to work out where they fit in with the other Carlyles. Did you get anywhere? I think the ones buried in Pennersaughs might have a common ancestor but I haven't worked out specifically how they are all related.
Thanks
Gill
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Hi Norma
I realise you posted a while ago but I've only recently seen your message.
Thomas Carlyle and Isabella Dixon were my 5xg grandparents. Their daughter Isabella (b.1771 Sorrysyke, St Mungo d.1858 Carthat, Lochmaben) married John Richardson and I am descended from that line.
I have also been trying to work out where they fit in with the other Carlyles. Did you get anywhere? I think the ones buried in Pennersaughs might have a common ancestor but I haven't worked out specifically how they are all related.
Thanks
Gill
Hi Gill,
Haven't been on this site for a long time so have only just seen your post.
I am also descended from Isabella Carlyle and John Richardson.
I shall have a look to see what I have but I don't think I have any more. I did find Sorysike on an old map.
Have you got any further back with the Carlyles?
cheers
Norma
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Hi Norma
Thanks for posting back.
I'm stuck trying to find the parents of our Thomas I'm afraid.
Gill
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Norma
I'll send you a personal message.
Gill
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Norma
I'll send you a personal message.
Gill
Hi,
Have replied to your PM but suspect it did not send.
Could you let me know if you received it?
thanks
Norma
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Got your pm saying you only got a blank message. I sent you another but don't know if you got it!
I am away from home at the moment and using an old ipad so am wondering if it is to do with that.
Norma
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Have only just seen this post.
My daughter's 6x Grt Grandparents were Francis Carlyle and Jane Seaton/Siton. They married at New Abbey in 1826. When Francis died in Merthyr Tidfil in 1882 his family claimed that he was the second cousin of Thomas Carlyle. I have not yet established a definite connection, nor have I manged to disprove the claim.
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Hi there, I've read all the messages re the carlyle family. I'm looking for the parents of Mary, born c 1811. She married William Moffat and had 6 kids. First dgt was isabella (so I'm thinking her mum was isabella). There was Mary, William, John and James. She died after 1844, that's when her youngest was born. She was about mid 30s when she died. All her children were born in Kilpatrick Fleming, Dumfries-shire. I've never found a marriage cert William and Mary. Maybe a visit to the local cemeteries would be an option. She does show as Williams wife on the Moffat geno site.
Any ideas welcome
Elaine
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Hello Elaine, A couple of thoughts:
• The first child (Isabella) was born in Annan 1832, so this may have been where the marriage was. Unfortunately the kirk sessions for Annan for the relevant years are not available.
• I can only see 5 children on the 1841 census and have found birth records for three. A reminder that on the 1841 census, ages were rounded down, so parents Mary and William Moffat were quite possibly older than 30 at that census, ie born before 1810
• I notice that the son James born in 1841 has the second name IRVING. This might be significant and give some leads to earlier generations. For example, there are a few births between a CARLYLE father and IRVING Mother in the Annan and Middlebie area in the early 1800s, including this one for a Mary.
CARLYLE MARY
02/02/1806 Middlebie
parents: JOHN CARLYLE / JEAN IRVING
FR76 (FR76) 841/ 10 69
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Morning, that's for your reply.
To clarify, are the Annan records not available online or are they totally non existent? Would be happy to go to Annan if I could see them there
Yes, James Irving Moffat was my gt grandad. I have looked at the records trying to see where Irving fits in with this couple. I've also tried to find death for Mary Moffat nee carlyle, hoping to see exact age. No joy there either.
Onwards upwards....
Elaine
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Sorry, I didn't make myself clear.
I looked at the Kirk Sessions for Annan wondering if there might be a mention of a Moffat - Carlyle marriage in the 1830-1831 period. Unfortunately there is a gap in these kirk session minutes between 1826 and 1834.
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To clarify, are the Annan records not available online or are they totally non existent? Would be happy to go to Annan if I could see them there.
There is almost never any point in going on spec to the place where early records were generated, because next to none of them will still be held there.
The Church of Scotland registers of baptism, marriage and burials are held by the Registrar General for Scotland in New Register House in Edinburgh, and the contents have been digitised and indexed and can be viewed on Scotland's People (SP). You can see a detailed list of what registers have survived at https://www.nrscotland.gov.uk/research/guides/old-parish-registers/list-of-old-parish-registers
Many registers of dissenting and free churches are held in the National Records of Scotland (NRS). Most of these have been digitised and are available on SP under 'Other churches'. You can search to see if a particular congregation's records have survived but not been digitised by going to https://catalogue.nrscotland.gov.uk/nrsonlinecatalogue/search.aspx, typing the name of the congregation in the 'Search for' box and 'CH3' in the 'Reference' box.
The Church of Scotland's Kirk Session (KS) records are almost all in the NRS, and many of them have been digitised and can be viewed on SP. To find out which Church of Scotland KS records have survived, including those that have yet to be made available online, go to https://catalogue.nrscotland.gov.uk/nrsonlinecatalogue/search.aspx, type 'Kirk Session' in the 'Search for' box and 'CH2' in the reference box. If you want to know whether the KS records of a specific parish have survived, add the parish name in the 'Search for' box.
The same search, using CH3 instead of CH2, will produce a list of KS records of dissenting churches held in the NRS.
The Roman Catholic records are not held by NRS, but they have been digitised and are available on SP.
If SP and NRS don't have the records you are looking for, or if you are looking for Episcopalian, Methodist, Congregational, Jewish, Quaker or other minor denominations, try the Scottish Archive Network https://www.scan.org.uk/ to see if they are held in a local or university archive.
Local archives should know if there are any surviving documents held elsewhere. For Annan, start with https://www.dumgal.gov.uk/article/15308/Local-archives
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Thanks for info, that's interesting.
I was just about to reply to previous message. I've found Mary, dgt of John carlyle and jean Irving. She was still living at home in the census aged 42, single!!
So away for another search. There's a carlyle/Irving marriage a generation back which I will look at. Thanks again
Elaine