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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Limerick => Topic started by: Quicksy on Thursday 01 November 12 02:13 GMT (UK)
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My ancestor Capt John Franklin married Anna Krause in St Croix , Virgin Islands. Presumably this was during the time his 97th regiment of foot was based there. John and Anna's three known offspring were Richard Augustus Meier, Peter Heiliger and Jane Anne (or Ann) Franklin. They were born between 1813 & 1815. I have been unable to establish all of their birthplaces except perhaps Peter's which we believe was in Limerick. I have been unable to ascertain, but I would like to know know where Jane Ann was born, and where and when their mother Anna died. She was considerably younger than John Franklin I believe. He died at Green Hills, near Lemonfield, County Limerick in February 1833.
The Franklin's were protestants. Could anyone tell me what parish or church they would likely to have come under please? I do know that Jane was married for the second time in 1839 at Limerick Cathedral.
I would love to hear from anyone who may have any information on this Franklin family, and be very grateful too. Thank you.
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Greenhills and Lemonfield are adjacent townlands in Co. Limerick, and located about 9km by road east of the town of Patrickswell. The civil parish for this part of Co. Limerick is Knocknagaul. Civil parishes generally equate to Church of Ireland parishes.
You can see Greenfield house and the townland on this c1837 OSI map : Greenfield House (http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,555782,648717,6,7)
The townland of Lemonfield is immediately north of this view.
Some details of the parish are included in Lewis 1837 - Knocknegaul (http://www.libraryireland.com/topog/K/Knocknegaul-Pubblebrien-Limerick.php)
I have not been able to find any mention of records for this Church of Ireland parish under this name, but there's a mention of the Lewis entry of the parish being '..part of the union of Nantinan..'. There are some records listed for this union, but probably starting a little too late to be of interest. i.e. baptisms from 1877, marriages from 1845 (which would be included in civil records), and death/burials from 1878.
Shane
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He lived at a house called Bettyville in the 1820's.
http://landedestates.nuigalway.ie:8080/LandedEstates/jsp/estate-show.jsp?id=2244
Fitzgerald lists it as being in the parish of Crecoragh http://www.rootschat.com/links/0s0d/
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Thank you both Shaun & Shane for these items of interest. Now knowing that he was residing in the house Bettyville in the 1820's is very helpful as I have been trying to track his movements after his marriage in St Croix. Appreciate your input.
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I know the death announcements say that he was in the 95th but I can only see him as a Captain in the 96th. He was promoted to the rank in 1808 (it's in the Gazette http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/16206/pages/1643 ) and was still with that regiment as a Captain in the 1814 army list. I will check later lists
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Still with 96th in 1816.
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"When in 1803 the 52nd Regiment became Light Infantry its second battalion was taken from it and numbered the 96th Regiment of Foot. Before the year was out a second battalion had been raised to the new 96th.
The 1st Battalion 96th Regiment served for a year in Ireland and was then sent to the West Indies. The General Order Book of the Headquarters Windward and Leeward Islands covering the years 1811 to June 1813 was found a number of years ago in the Jamaica Garrison Library. It contains an outline of the conditions of service at that time. ...........
The battalion was returned to England in 1816 and was stationed in Ireland until disbanded in December 1818."
http://www.tameside.gov.uk/museumsgalleries/mom/history/96th
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1st battalion of the 96th arrived in St Croix in June 1808
http://www.tameside.gov.uk/museumsgalleries/mom/lotm/james
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Thank you Shaun. Clearly you have been nery busy while I have been sleeping down-under !
So , it is possible then that the two Franklin boys may have been born in the West Indies in spite of being unable to turn up any evidence of that. Mind you, nor have I been able to find any birthplace for any of them in Ireland either. Perhaps England would be the next logical place try for Jane Ann at least.
The control of St Croix passed back to Denmark in 1815, so it seems likely that the Franklins would have returned to Ireland by or even before 1815. That was the year daughter Jane Ann was born.
John Franklin's marriage to Anna Krause took place in St Croix om 3rd January 1809. He must have had some charm...she was a mere 23 year old, and he 64!!! Charming and virile it seems..
I am now even beginning to wonder if there could possibly have been two generations of John Franklins in the Anglo /Irish Army. According to information I have he was Lt. Franklin at the time of his marriage.
Have a good day Shaun.
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This fits with the marriage date of 3 January 1809 that I saw in a Krause family history. They must have travelled to Ireland shortly after the marriage:
"Limerick Chronicle. Wednesday 25 Oct. 1809: born yesterday week at Ballyvolane, Co. Limerick, the lady of Captain Franklin of the
96th Regt. a son and heir."
There's also this reference in the same document - a niece and a sibling ? :
"Ennis Chronicle. Thursday 14 July 1803: Married on Saturday last at Uregar church James Bevan of Milltown, Co. Limerick To Miss Eliza Franklin, daughter of Richard Franklin of Ballyvolane in Co. Limerick. "
http://www.limerickcity.ie/media/limerick%20families%20082.pdf
Also a bit more on Greenhills http://landedestates.nuigalway.ie:8080/LandedEstates/jsp/property-show.jsp?id=2333
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Marriage register page from St John's Episcopal Anglican Church, Christiansted, St Croix. 3 January 1809:
Lieutenant John Franklin to Miss Ann Krause
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-14687-6116-63?cc=1883386&wc=MMYF-4R1:1194849197
You may need to register/login.
Clearly news of his promotion had not yet arrived in St Croix at the time of the wedding. Perhaps the promotion was to the command of a company based in Limerick.
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Richard Franklin of "Ballyvillane " in the 1776 freeholders list http://members.iinet.net.au/~nickred/limerick/limerick_voters.html
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Well, the birth of the son and heir in Ireland is a bit of a surprise. That would be Richard Augustus Meier Franklin then, and at last I have an actual date for him. It certainly would appear that the family had moved back to Ireland for at least a short time, within the first year of their marriage.
The next child whom I was aware of , was Peter Heiliger Franklin and I have 1813 as the year of his birth followed in 1815 by his sister Jane Anne.
I also have come across several references to a Richard Franklin - A Sir Richard Franklin Surgeon , and also a Mayor of Limerick . I think he could have been a sibling of My John and there could have been a nephew as well I think. I don't know who might have been the father of Capt John Franklin.
The Peter Franklin mention as a resident of Tuthill along with a Mr Sherlock in 1814, was also of interests. Peter perhaps being another sibling to my John. Jane Anne Franklin married twice. The first time after the death of her father (1933) to a Captain Richard Sherlock of the 65 Regt. It would appear that Jane Anne was widowed within a short space of time, for she married for the second time to George Cashell quite soon after.
I am not very familiar with how things "worked" in the military of that era Shaun. Wouldn't it have been rather unusual for the wives of officers to accompany them to their postings ? Perhaps Mrs Franklin returned to Ireland for the birth of the child, and he went to carry out his duties elsewhere. There is a bigger gap between the first and second child . It that likely do you think, or do Captains have a more privileged position where they can have their wives with them ? Just wondering .
Thanks :)
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I have sighted a newspaper notice of Captain John Franklin's death in February 1833 at his home, Greenhills Limerick. It seems possible that his home at that time could well have been the cottage Bettyville.
I would like to know if his wife Anna Krause Franklin who was many years younger than he was, was still alive at that time or not. I suppose it would be noted on his death cert. if he was a widower at the time of his demise or not ?
Can anyone please tell me what details I could expect to find on an Irish death certificate from that era, and if indeed it is likely to be available and where I would begin to look for it?
Also, without a date for the death of Anna Krause Franklin , what suggestions can anyone make for a starting point in trying to trace her please.
Thanks in anticipation .
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Registration of births and deaths started in 1864, so there will be no death cert available for the 1830s.
see : Introduction to Irish Records (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,442233.0.html)
Shane
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Thanks Shane for yr fast and on the ball reply.
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Death of Peter Franklin at Greenhills - Limerick Chronicle 6 June 1859
http://limerick.ie/media/06%2008%2059-1.pdf
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Yes, thank you ShaunJ This was Peter Heyliger Franklin , the second son of Capt. John. Peter married Anne Minchin of Rathclough, Cashel. After her husband's death, Annie Minchin Franklin migrated aboard the "Ernestina," arriving with with their children, in New Zealand in 1864. One of their daughters was my GG grandmother.
I value yr assistance. Thanks again
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THERE IS A (BETTIVILLE HOUSE) NEAR
CRECORA VILLAGE CO LIMERICK.
THERE IS ANOTHER (BETTIVILLE HOUSE),
NEAR ASKEATON CO LIMERICK.
JOHN.
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Thanks John.
How far apart would Askeaton and Crecora village be, I am wondering?
But I do think it is the one in Crecora all the same. It is no wonder people down under, like me get confused at times though.
Are there also two Ballyvolanes as well? I read something that gave me the idea that there is a Ballyvolane in Cork as well as in Limerick.
Kate
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LOOK UP (BALLYVOLANE, CASTLELIONS, FERMOY, GENEALOGY.
LIMERICK TO FERMOY, 80 KILOMETERS.
BALLYVOLANE, ANNACOTTY, CO LIMERICK.
10 KILOMETERS FROM LIMERICK CITY.
LOOK UP THE AREA ON GOOGLE MAPS.
LOOK UP BALLYVALONE GENEALOGY.
JOHN.
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LIMERICK CITY TO CRECORA 12 KM.
LIMERICK CITY TO ASKESTON 26 KM.
JOHN.
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REGISTER ON,
(ROOTS IRELAND)
(IRISH FAMILY HISTORY FOUNDATION).
IT IS NOT A FREE SITE.
SELECT LIMERICK, FROM THE INTER ACTIVE MAP,
ENTER FAMILY NAME (FRANKLIN)
FIRST NAME ENTER 3 %%% SIGNS ONLY,
SELECT ENTER,
IT WILL SHOW ALL (FRAMKLINS)
1716- 1895, BECAUSE YOU DID NOT
ENTER A FIRST NAME & YOU DID NOT ENTER AYEAR.
JOHN.
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Good advice - many thanks morenae !
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hi there. I have been doing a lot of research on my family tree and my Great Grandmother is Jane Anne Smith born in 1865 in Auckland to Richard Augustus Meier Franklin and Isabella (nee Bennett) Franklin who travelled with Richards two older daughters Augusta and Amelia to Auckland on "the Queen of Beauty" in 1863. Richard was married to Isabellas older sister Margaret Franklin (nee Bennett) and they had at least 6 children together . Margaret died 1855. He then married Isabella - they travelled to NZ and Jane Anne Franklin was born in 1865. IN 1870 Richard died in Auckland. There is a very interesting story that follows if anyone is interested . I have just discovered Richards two eldest three daughters , a granddaughter and a grandson are all buried in the same plot in Gisborne, NZ. The 4 females all took their own lives - apparently suffering from mental illness. Amelia aged 24, Margaret Jane (who must have travelled over too) age 33, Viola Mary Augusta's daughter aged 28 and then the same year Mary Augusta aged 61. The boy was her son and he died at 16 in a tragic horse accident.
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Richard of Ballyvullane was married to Margaret Franklin.
No 244972 https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSH3-97TG-H?i=489&cat=185720
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Contact Margaret Franklin at (Limerick City Library)
she is the Author of a Book, (How to Find Your Limerick Ancestors).
Limerick City Library | Granary Library | Limerick.ie
Dooradoyle Library | Limerick.ie
Glucksman Library at the University of Limerick
John.
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Robert and Susanne went to Ballyshannon, Co Donegal...
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSJW-HGK4?i=431&cat=185720
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So...Richard and Robert were brothers.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSJ7-498P-H?i=315&cat=185720
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Will Registers http://www.rootschat.com/links/01oe8/
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No.193
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSJW-DJRG?i=550&cat=185720
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Death
Franklin Letitia (née Gubbins) 30/03/1859, Henry Street, widow of Richard Franklin, surgeon, dau of late Joseph Gubbins, Maidstown, Co. Limerick
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Robert and Susanne went to Ballyshannon, Co Donegal...
Franklin Robert Deane 22/05/1858 Newcomen Terrace, Dublin officer in Peninsular War, 39th Regt.,son of late Surgeon Franklin of Limerick City
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From my understanding there is another Richard Franklin who is a surgeon from Limerick - This was not my Great Great Grandfather.
My Great Great Grandfather is Richard Augustus Meier B.1809 Ballyvolane, Limerick D.1870 Auckland NZ . He was the first child of Capt. John Franklin. His siblings are Peter Heyliger Franklin B1813-D.1859 and Jane Anne Franklin B1815.-D1878
Therefore Capt. John Franklin is my G.G.G Grandfather
I am piecing together the full story from when Richard, Isabella (his second wife) , Mary Augusta and Amelia travelled to NZ on the 'Beauty Queen' in 1863. Two years later my G.G. Grandmother Jane Anne Smith (nee Franklin) was born in Auckland. She was my mothers Grandmother.
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So are your ones the same one's as Quicksy is looking for?
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George Cashel, eldest son,
of Bedford House, Co.Kerry.
He mar 15 Feb 1840 [Limerick CoI cathedral parish records] to Jane Anne Franklin.
See [Limerick Standard, 18 Feb 1840].
See [unknown Nenagh newspaper, 22 Feb 1840].
See notice in unknown Limerick newspaper, apparently 15 Feb 1840, from Mark Russell's family tree.
Jane Anne was dau of Capt. John Franklin, 90th Regiment, of Greenhills, Co.Limerick.
Greenhills is just S of Lemonfield, near Kilpeacon, Knocknagaul par (just S of Limerick), Co.Limerick.
Jane Anne was as at 1840 the widow of Richard Sherlock, 62nd Regiment.
She apparently emigrated to New Zealand in 1866.
The Southern Cross, 6 January 1866, shows the arrival at Auckland, New Zealand, of "Jane Ann, Richard, Grace and Elizabeth Cashel".
Probably the same as:
George Cashel, or Cashell,
listed as of Rose Land, Listowel area, Co.Kerry, in [Slater's Directory, 1846],
source http://humphrysfamilytree.com/Cashel/misc.html
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Peter Highleiger Franklin
Birthdate: 1813
Birthplace: Limerick, County Limerick, Ireland
Death: June 04, 1859 (46)
Immediate Family:
Son of Cap. John Franklin and Ana Franklin
Brother of Richard Augustus Meier Franklin and Jane Anne Cashel
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I am not looking for anyone in particular. I’m just learning more about the family .
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Something might be useful to Quicksy who started this thread.
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Thanks to all who have taken an interest this post regarding one of my ancestors Capt John Franklin my GGG grandfather . As far as i can ascertain, almost immediately after he married Ana Krause on 3rd January 1809 , in St Croix where his regiment had been stationed , they returned to Ireland . I have knowledge of 3 children born to Capt. John and his wife Ana (Anna) and a notice of the first born was published thus -
1809. The lady of John Franklin 96th Regiment , a son and Heir at Ballyvolane 25 October 1809.
This would have been NZ Jane T's line. Richard Augustus Meier Franklin. ( Meier was a family name from the Krause side of the family) In trying to establish Capt. John Franklin's parentage , I found a newspaper clip going back to 1806 which announced the wedding of Margaret , 4th daughter of the LATE Richard Franklin of Ballyvolane , to Samuel Adams .
So, could the Late Richard have been an older brother , or father even of Capt John ? I have thought for some time that it was highly likely that Capt. John could have had both a father and a brother called Richard . So far I have not been able to establish either of those as facts. Given that the old Irish naming custom in those days was to name first born sons for the father's father . I thought it likely that John's father was a Richard .
Also in July of 1809, a notice in the Ennis Chronicle announced the marriage of an Eliza Franklin to James Bevan of Milltown Uregar. She was stated to be the daughter of Richard Franklin of Ballyvollane . And this later announcement did not us the "Late " Richard as the earlier one had done. So , had a more senior Richard died between 1806 and before 1809 ??
later , 1811 yet another marriage described a "Miss " Franklin as d/o Richard of Ballyvolane (not late) married to James Bennett of Bruff.
I did a bit of research into Ballyvolane .
There is a Ballyvolane House in Cork , and on the road to Ballyvolane .
I found a reference to Ballyvolane Castlelions , Fermoy 80 miles from Limerick, and perhaps the most likely one , Ballyvolane Annacotty, is in Co Limerick and just 10 miles from the city of Limerick.
Getting back to Richard Augustus Meier (Meyer) Franklin . He married first Margaret Bennett d/o Theophilus Bennett , and his second marriage was to Isabella Bennett . Richard and Isabella both died in NZ after arriving at Auckland on the vessel Queen of Beauty in August 1863 just after their marriage also in 1863. Richard and Margaret's first born was also Richard went to Connecticut in 1860 and the other children all came to New Zealand and they settled first in Onehunga , South Auckland.
John and Ana's second child was Peter Heileger Franklin ( there are several spellings of Heyliger name , from Ana's family } . Peter is my line , and he married Ann Minchin of "Rathclough" Cashel in 1828. He died on 4th june, 1859, Greenhills, Limerick Ireland . His widow Ann and her 3 eldest daughters arrived in Auckland NZ on the "Ernestina" in 1865.
Jane Ann Franklin, the youngest child of Captain John ( that we know of ) was born ? ? in 1813. She first married Richard Sherlock who was also a Military man . In 1840 she married a second time to George Cashel at Limerick Cathedral. They had lived in Roselands Cottage in Listowel They had at least 8 children Jane Anne died on 10th November 1878 and was buried in Thames , New Zealand.
I don't know how much of this stuff is of interest to anyone who have been following this thread. I do have more about the descendants of Capt. John , but I have no confirmed info of his ancestors . Captain john Franklin died on 5th Feb . 1833 at his home Greenhills ,Limerick after a long and painful illness. Ana seems to have just vanished into thin air. Perhaps she lost her life soon after the birth of their daughter Jane Anne. ??
There were close connections between the Franklin's and the Cashels.
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So where does 1782 Margaret Pratt fit in?
Along with Richard and Elizabeth Franklin.
Before coming across the snippet posted about them....and from memory...there was one for a Richard Franklin, Tanner in Cork and from memory he is same one as posted in 1782 snippet.
The 1800's stuff has been posted a few times.... your John married in his 60's but was he a widower?? He is 'of same generation' as Richard and Mgt (Pratt).
Then there is Robert and Susanna...where would they fit in? He had a brother Richard. Was their father mentioned in the deed I posted??
Is Susanna's maiden name known?
Lemonfield was previously mentioned..... home of the Bevins.
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"Surgeon Richard" was given a Knighthood..... so where would that be recorded and what details would that contain?
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This fits with the marriage date of 3 January 1809 that I saw in a Krause family history. They must have travelled to Ireland shortly after the marriage:
"Limerick Chronicle. Wednesday 25 Oct. 1809: born yesterday week at Ballyvolane, Co. Limerick, the lady of Captain Franklin of the
96th Regt. a son and heir."
There's also this reference in the same document - a niece and a sibling ? :
"Ennis Chronicle. Thursday 14 July 1803: Married on Saturday last at Uregar church James Bevan of Milltown, Co. Limerick To Miss Eliza Franklin, daughter of Richard Franklin of Ballyvolane in Co. Limerick. "
http://www.limerickcity.ie/media/limerick%20families%20082.pdf
Also a bit more on Greenhills http://landedestates.nuigalway.ie:8080/LandedEstates/jsp/property-show.jsp?id=2333
Richard died Bruff ??