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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Wiltshire => Topic started by: touchofmange on Friday 02 November 12 11:14 GMT (UK)
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hi i'm following my family perry line back to the 1841 census at charlton st peter and rushall. I'm just trying to thin out the families and find a line back.
in the 1841c my gr gr grandfather: Thomas Perry bn Shrewton abt 1811
Thomas perry 30, Elizabeth 30 (more likely 33, several sources), john 14, sarah 11, edward 9, rhoda 7, martha 5, mary 3, +jane maslen 25
his wife elizabeth from all censuses and bapt records was born in Nth Newnton 1808. On other sites there are many links to maslen's of various spellings, and jane maslen is in their household aged 25 in 1841c. I should find his birth and marriage first.
There were 28 perry's on the charlton parish census for 1841 and with no reference to relationship it makes it hard to build families. I have all the census notes for thomas and his family right through but i'm not certain about their deaths yet. Their first recorded child is sarah aged 11 in 1841, although there was a john 14 in their household for the 1841 census, he is not necessarily their son or perhaps elizabeths, as they would have been very young.
ok i've found :
1829 dec 25 Sarah Ann Perry D thomas & elizabeth Lab. Charl st peter
1832 apr 22 Edward Perry S parents & location same
so that's two more children confirmed, the only john that had the right date had a different mother unless they split up after john or,
two john perry's born about the same time allocated to two families, correct parents, in rushall. So who is this john? could point to my lineage. His age if correct would make thomas and eliz 16 and 19 ish.
the other census perry's for charlton 1841, some of which i've grouped are:
1841c= sarah perry 65, thomas 20, joseph 20, charles 15, stephen 7.
Thomas Perry to Sarah Brista (Bristow) 1801 apr 06. Charl
1801 Nov 08 Betty
1803 apr 03 Jane pery (bt Perry) thos & Sarah. Died?
1804 nov 25 stephen perey (bt perry) th & s Marr hannah bailey 1849 @ CH?
1807 apr 12 Isaac pery (bt Perry) Died?
1808 sep 18 Lucy pery (bt Perry)
1810 nov 04 George
1814 may 01 Jane
1816 aug 18 Isaac
1818 oct 18 Thomas Perry
1821 Jan 28 Joseph Perry
1823 Dec 07 Charles Perry
1837 Feb 26 Stephen Perry BB, no parents shown. Marr Ann rial 1849 CH? (ancestry)
Thomas death/residence 1841?
William perry 25, Harriet 25, emmily 6, louisa 4, alfred 2, ellen.
i found the marriage ref for william and harriet cook- 1833 rushall, wilts.
ancestry says: jul 06 1833. chresberry, wilts
Could find no birth for william. birthplace?
1835 jan 18 emily perry D to above parents. charlton,wilts.
1836 jun 03 louisa perry D " charlton, wilts.
1837 dec 25 alfred perry S " charlton, wilts.
1840 jun 21 ellen perry D " charlton, wilts.
john perry 55, tabitha 60. 1841 census. births not found on my area cd.
mary jane 1816 sep 15. john & bitha charl. think this is Tabitha.
John Blackman 35, mary blackman 45 (nee perry), elizabeth perry 18, john 15, frederick 14. plus sarah blackman 9 (john and mary's child jul 01 1832)
plus four kids on the parish baptisms to James and Mary perry:
1822 jul 7 elizabeth perry D rushall - marry john davis 1841 CH. look 1841 household??
1825 feb 2 john perry S rushall
1827 dec 23 frederick perry S Charlton St Peter
plus 1820 feb 20 george perry S rushall - is likely the george referred to in a different household for the 1841 census and married to emma. george perry 20, emma 20, james 2, frederick 5 months. i found the marriage ref: 1838 charlton,wilts- george perry father james, married emma davies father george & mary
Also found a possible marriage for James and Mary perry:
1819 apr 26 James perry of charlton, to Mary venn of rushall.
Any death of james or remarrying to john blackman should be between the youngest child frederick dec 23 1827 and the 1841 census:
1831 jul 30 john blackman marriage to mary perry, charlton.
In trying to trace james perry's line back it might provide a link to my thomas, i did find a death reference: james perry 1830 oct 5, parents obadiah & elizabeth, burial chapmanslade. I believe this is the death of a child to the couple as there is a christening in 1828. So i still have to find james.
appreciate any help thanks
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Hi
Elizabeth's age of 30 in 1841 means she could be between 30 & 34, ages were rounded down in this census although children up to the age of 15 were not.
Then i get the parish cd's for devizes area and i search for elizabeth maslin:
1807 oct 4 D John & Grasion (bt sarah) charlton st p.
1809 apr 30 D John & Grace Nth Newnton (also replicated for Mary maslin so must have been twins)
Have you checked for a burial for the Elizabeth christened 1807? I wonder if the bt Sarah means that the Bishops transcripts are showing the mothers name as Sarah whereas the PR's state Grasion. :-\
See this link for information on Shrewton http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/WIL/Shrewton/index.shtml
Rosie
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Just found your post and will reply in a bit more detail when I've had more of a chance to look at it!
Just for now though - i agree with Rosie's interpretation of the use of 'bt'. On those particular disks, they have looked at both the registers and the Bishop's Transcripts and they highlight any differences.
I should also like to add that , although Elizabeth and Mary were baptised together doesn't necessarily mean they were twins - often families waited until there were two or more children and then baptised them together - it may have been cheaper? ::)
Double checked the baptisms for Charlton St Peter with originals on microfiche... definitely no baptisms for Thomas and Elizabeth's children after Edward ???
Found a baptism for Elizabeth Maslin in Shrewton born 11 May 1807 baptised 2 August 1807 to George and Ann Maslin. Is this one a possibility?
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original post updated.
with regard to the 1807 shrewton baptism for elizabeth maslin, it's possible yes. all the census records say nth newnton so i'm rather tied by that.
Can i ask where you found shrewton records from?
I've noted down the district 6 census for 1841 which is rushall and there are many more perry's and maslen/maslin there, it might help clarify if i can work back from them. I'm still looking for my original thomas birth and marriage which i suppose is the main aim.
thanks for your help :)
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for my ref i'm listing the parent/married couple perry's from charlton and rushall.
having found the birth of a thomas in 1792 and a marriage:
Thomas 1792 may 27 to Thomas & Hannah @ Charlton
Thomas perry (rush) & Hannah briant 1791 oct 04 @ Charlton. Note about time she fell pregnant with Thomas. i could find no other marriages for these names to suit so i'm saying this is the same thomas and hannah with further children born in rushall:
born to Thomas & hannah Perry @ Rushall
william briant 1793 dec 25
elizabeth 1796 jun 26
thomas 1802 nov 21
martha 1805 jan 06
daniel 1808 feb 23 married mary oram??
ann 1810 dec 2
did 1792 thomas die?
1841 rushall census household
Hannah perrey 70
Mary 30
Daniel 11 1829 sep 20 rush to Daniel & mary.
Charles 6 1834 aug 03 son of mary widow.
Henry 4 1837 may 07 BBS mary spinster.
where are thomas and daniel?
daniel & mary oram? 1829 apr 27 upavon. no parents to cross ref.
elizabeth perry rush who is this??
charles 1817 feb 16 BBS
william & anna maria rush wm p & anna maria gilbert 1817 jul 17 upavon
henry 1818 may 10
eliza 1820 aug 20
probable william and anna 1841 rushall census, no kids. wm 45 anna 40
possible william briant perry, thomas and hannah's son. later 1851 census shows hannah. poss hannah maria gilbert, plus many kids and new better ages. update
james & mary Rush. James perry & mary venn 1819 apr 26. His abode CH, hers Rush
george 1820 feb 20 marries emma davies, shown with kids 1841 Charlton census, his widowed mother mary married to john blackman.
thomas & mary rush
sarah 1814 jul 17
harriet 1817 mar 16
jane 1819 aug 29
thomas & ann charl
william 1791 apr 24 (? late reg, dates close with sarah, she premature, diff couple?)
sarah 1791 oct 30
james 1795 mar 28 - poss james marries mary above?
thomas & anne Charlton
diana (bt perry) 1793 apr 28
thomas & an (perey, bt perry) Charlton
mary an 1797 apr 16
henry 1799 jan 03
thomas & anna rush
jane 1799 jun 16
william & elizabeth charl
john 1761 feb 08
mary 1762 dec 07
thos 1765 mar 10 this thomas marries sarah bristow (brista) see original post.
william 1767 jun 21
james 1770 may 13
sarah 1774 nov 16
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Sorry about the lack of response - am mind-boggling busy at work this week!
In answer to your question about the Shrewton baptism - it's on Ancestry and may well be in other places since it originated in a collection from the LDS in Salt Lake City.
Will try to have another look at it all later this week....
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I'm going to add this link to your Dorcas Perry thread here too, since there seem to be a lot of these Perry threads, to avoid any duplication or futile efforts to help.
The Dorcas Turner and John Perrior marriage 1810, and Thomas Perrior birth 4 Feb 1811, seem like a possible set that needs to be considered.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,626350.0.html
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I'm going to add this link to your Dorcas Perry thread here too, since there seem to be a lot of these Perry threads, to avoid any duplication or futile efforts to help.
The Dorcas Turner and John Perrior marriage 1810, and Thomas Perrior birth 4 Feb 1811, seem like a possible set that needs to be considered.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,626350.0.html
yes thanks don't really know how i missed that especially having found john, neither thomas or william appear on my parish baptism cd and i'll look for the births of john and dorcas. Definitely think that is my man, i had scribbled down the dorcas and turner marriage but without thomas perrior it didn't make much difference.
It's possible that william is married to harriet cook on the 1841/51 although does say bn Charlton rather than shrewton. Puts him in the same census page as his brother thomas and i couldn't find the birth for the wm with harriet.
Might also explain why i couldn't find the eldest child john 14 - 1841c in thomas & elizabeths household, his birth might be under perrior somewhere. The other children in the house i have accounted the births, and i hadn't ruled out the john being a nephew as they would have been very young having him in 1827 ish. Now with thomas's father being john i think he's back on for the first born.
Thanks very much for your help, i've been looking for thomas for months lol, and many family trees stop there on ancestry :)
i'm starting to tidy the other regional perry's and remove some of the knots, i think when it all comes together it will open up a number of perry families for that region.
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Hello
I also have Perry ancestors from Rushall
I attach part of my tree. Please let me know if you see any link with yours.
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Hello
I also have Perry ancestors from Rushall
I attach part of my tree. Please let me know if you see any link with yours.
hi topsytree, i'm not really in to downloading stuff off the net, but if you tell me who they are or perhaps which is your earliest census with them i'll likely know who they are and may have done some research. Could you explain a little about them?
thanks
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Hi touchofmange
My tree is Thomas William Perry b. Rushall 1837
son of
William Briant Perry b. Rushall 1793 married Hannah Maria Gilbert b. 1798
son of
Thomas Perry b. Charlton 1765 married Hannah Bryant b. 1769 in 1791
son of
William Perry b. 1743 married Elizabeth Hitchcock in 1760
I would be interested in sharing research if you have any interest in this branch of the Perry tree.
topsytree
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hi topsy yes i have quite a large tree for the generations under thomas and hannah briant.
a couple of things; i note you have put the 1765 date of birth to thomas and also you have his parents. Unless you have some proof or family lineage perhaps to say this is correct then i would question it. I have 3 thomas perry's around that age and area and have been unable to allocate the birth to the right one, and equally if you allocated the parents to a thomas perry, they may not be right either.
From what i've found, i've got the william and eliz hitchcock and their family, but the only child i've been able to follow has been their son william. It's true they have a thomas bn 1765 which might be the husband of hannah briant, but he could also be the husband of sarah bristow or ann swatton. There is another possible bn at wilsford in 1773.
So i've got a little perry island of wm and eliz plus their family, and then another large perry island of the briant perry's but i haven't joined them up without any proof. Have you just started your tree and are working your way back through the sources?
If you can either get on ancestry and look at the briant part or if i can work out how to do it i might be able to do you a gedcom of that part of the tree??
In honesty i really haven't gone through their family with a fine tooth comb as they just haven't linked up with mine yet, but they are most likely related at some point. You could join wiltsfhs and ask them if they can shed any light on the thomas perrys and the briant line.
regards
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Thank you touchofmange
If you open the attachment I sent you with my earlier response you will see other family members.
In the light of your observations I shall recheck my research and get back to you. I plan to do this in the winter so may not be in touch for a while.
Topsy
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Hi there
I have 2 family trees on Ancestry.co.uk that contain members of the Perry family as they married into 'my' Clements family also from Charlton st Peter. I also have Elizabeth Maslin 1804-1874 and Jane Maslin 1815 in the family if anyone has a link between them I would be interested.
Thanks
Heather
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Thomas William Perry bp 26 June 1836 at Rushall married Jane Clements b 1837. They married at Charlton st Peter 15 October 1859. Thomas was son of William Briant Perry and Anna Maria Gilbert. Jane was sister of my 2 x great grandfather Josiah Clements 1833-1887.
Emily Thirza Perry b 7 November 1879 at Charlton st Peter 7 Nov 1879 daughter of Frederick Perry and Sarah Oram married Stephen George Clements 1867-1934. Emily died 11 Nov 1953. Quite a few years ago I was sent via e mail a postcard photo of the 7 children children of Emily and Stephen. Fortunately when my pc crashed I still had a copy of the photo, but not details of the kind lady who sent it to me.
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Hi all who have contributed to this thread. I see that Charlton and Rushall are close to Potterne ,Urchfont and Devizes. I too am seeking info on the Perrys and Maslens who intermarried around 1840 and had shops and Inns/pubs/hotels in Devizes. I realise they are very common names in the area but could any one give me an idea on where to look for their marriage and births before sending for the certificates. John Perry married a Louisa Elizabeth Maslen.She always notes (census records ) that she was born in Covent Garden London but I can not find her.Her Much older sister or possibly mother Sarah Maslen married a Chandler and then as a widow married a William Grace of The Castle Hotel in Devizes. I am finding it very difficult to track the women.Can anyone see any of these people in their records? Please could anyone give me some advice on where to look. Thank you.
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Hello Miggs 191
Could you give us a rough idea of the dates and exactly what you would like? You say that John Perry married Louisa Elizabeth Maslen - does that mean you already have the certificate etc for that?. If you give us an idea of what you already have, with approximate dates, we might be able to help track people down.
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Thank you for replying.
The search began in about 1945 and the very elderly aunt who began it holds most of the information.I do my best to extract bits of info when I visit.I believe she has their marriage cert. but I have not seen it. Usually she sets me the task of finding the next missing link.Over the years I have become fascinated by our family story and am trying to piece it together myself. She is almost one hundred and three but keeps the genealogy very much to herself unless she is sending me on the next task!
I think I need to send for the marriage cert of John Perry and Louisa Elizabeth Maslen. That should give me their parents?
I know that Horation Nelson Perry was also in the mix but there were two....I believe cousins so both related but which one I am not sure.
It would all be easier if she would show me what she has!
Thank you so much for taking an interest.I will get back to you later.
M. :)
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Dear M
Yes, the marriage certificate of John Perry and Louisa Maslen would (or should) give their parents, but if you could tell us approximately when it happened, one of us might have access to the parish records, which would give you the same information. However, we need to know roughly when it was!
Regards
Angela
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Hi AngelaR,
Didn't realise you might have such access.
They married in Devizes in 1846 . If I have found the correct reference it is the July/Aug/Sept quarter ref:-- viii page 515 . I believe it was in St John's in the middle of Devizes as around that time the lived in and near The Brittox. She ran a milliners and he ran a grocery business.
She should be a spinster born in Covent Garden.He unmarried born in Devizes around 1819/1821.
Their daughter Mary Sarah Sissons Perry was born in 1848 ( I have tracked her in great detail) and on Thursday last week I was suddenly told of a son ! He is John William Neate Perry but I haven't done much to search for him yet.
Thank you so much for asking. I feel as if I know every thing and yet nothing when my Aunt starts telling me snippets.She is almost 103 so I suppose she can play the game by her rules!
M :)
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Hi M,
Quite a few RCers do have access to parish records of various sorts. I have quite a few at home on microfiche, but unfortunately not Devizes of the right period! Others may have better information than me, but if no-one else has, then the marriage certificate is the way to go!
I imagine you've found the baptism record for a John Perry, son of William and Mary at Devizes St John on 3rd May 1819 (born 2 mar 1819)? Looks just a tiny bit early for John's declared age on the only censuses I was able to locate him on.
The only census I could find so far with John and Louisa together was the 1861 with daughters Mary, Emily and Alice. Have you been able to find others?
Angela
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Angela,
You are a star!
That is them! (grammar?)
Thank you.
I will send for the marriage cert and see what turns up.
I am pretty certain that John Perry 1819 is right so I may send for his birth car too.
They were a strange lot. John ran off to London leaving wife and child of two in Devizes.He turns up in Westminster living around the corner to his new wife!
Emily and Alice of this liason and the second 'wife' (Matilda Imison) all end up together on various census records.
It seems to revolve around inheritance money as there are all sorts of documents at the National Archives/Chippenham refering to them from 1800 to around 1875.
I have been able to track forward in fantastic detail but am looking forward to seeing if anything is recorded for Louisa Elizabeth's parents as I am stuck there.
My aunt mentioned once that she thought Louisa had left her daughter in Devizes and was living in Regent Street London.She also told me that she travelled to Paris. Where she got evidence for this I do not know.
I need to move into the Chippenham Records Office for a month to search their papers as I know there is info there.
Thank you again,
Miggs. :)
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Back on the case,
Having inherited the paperwork and spent months organising and classifying,I now know that Louisa Elizabeth Maslen who says she was born in Covent Garden had a father named George Maslen who was a grocer. However, I can not find either of them and a kind soul on Roots Chat has given me a list of Anglican parishes in the area so that is my next step.
I have also inherited a rather large ,very complicated family tree showing the Perrys of the Devizes area and how they married and intermarried.
I will try and look for people if they ask. :) M
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Hi this is another thread that mentions a William Grace/Sarah I have responded on re the marriage of John Perry to Louisa Elizabeth Maslen
Apparently the father of Louisa Elizabeth is a George Maslen occ Grocer?
Replied with I believe 1841/51 for Louisa aged 27 b London now a Perry with sister Sarah aged 19 b London in 1851 and 1841 as a Maslen on thread containing future husband John Perry
Keyboard86
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Thanks Keyboard. I have them from about 1820 onwards.I can track them on all the census records and have lots of copies of legal documents so we know what the owned and what happened.
Apart from Louisa always stating on any census or document that she was born in Covent Garden I have no evidence. when married,she stated that her father was George Maslen a grocer.Can't find him either.
I'm hoping she may have been christened and that I may find her listed in a London church Thanks for being helpful.
Miggs
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It is now five years since my last message on this thread ! I am still searching ! Recently having searched records from The Actors Church - St Paul’s in Covent Garden. I have searched BDM but have no luck. I now know that Louisa Elizabeth Maslin born 1821 supposedly in Covent Garden was adopted by the age of thirteen. She was living in Yorkshire with a Richard Sissons and his wife Sarah. Sarah is Louisa’s Aunt as she gives her maiden name as Maslin on her marriage cert in Rotherhithe Surrey. Sarah’s husband Richard Sissons Gentleman, leaves a large amount of money in his will to Louisa who is recorded as Louisa Elizabeth Maslin Evett ( I already knew her younger sister Sarah was adopted by the Evetts in London ) by the 1841 census Louisa is living in Devizes with her Aunt Sarah who has married for the third time ! I can trace Louisa ,my great great grandmother through to her death in a Lunatic Asylum in Berkshire and by then she was penniless. I also sent for and received her medical records from around1887. Where was she born ? Apart from knowing her father was zGeorge Maslin grocer, who were here family ? I have wondered if Louisa may have changed her name (there is a history of name changing later ). I can find a George Maslin married to a Sarah in Urchfont outside Devizes and wonder if they could possibly be the parents but there is no way of finding the truth. Any ideas please ? It’s a very thick brick wall !
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Hello Miggs
Like you it has been some time since I contributed to this thread....but I have been active researching the Perry's of Charlton and Rushall. Cannot see a significant link to the Devizes Perrys so may be of no interest to you.
My research has focussed on the marriage of Thomas Perry of Rushall who married Hannah Briant at Charlton in 1791. The problem was that there were 10 possible candidates for Thomas Perry living in the area. After much research I was able to eliminate 9 leaving just one and am now back a further 5 generations to Thomas Perry who married Jane Stevens at All Cannings in 1629.
I wait to hear if any of this is of interest to you or others.
Topsytree
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Hi Topsy Tree,
I’ll need to burrow through the various Perry trees ! I also have various Thomas Perry’s in my ancestors. The research began in 1946 by my Aunt and later my Dad. Our complication is that Perrys kept intermarrying ! Our advantage is that there is a lot of legal paperwork at Chippenham records office.
I’ll see who I can find and it might help you to “kill them off” !
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Hello Miggs
I have just re-read my previous reply to you which is in error.
Its Daniel Perry who married Jane Stevens at All Cannings in 1629.....not Thomas Perry.
I too have been to the Chippenham FHS......a fantastic resource.
Topsytree
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Hi again,
I’ll see if there is a Daniel .
M.
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Hi Topsy Tree,
Not good news I’m afraid.
My direct ancestor is John Perry born 1819 Devizes d 1875 Potterne. He was my great great grandfather.
His brother was Thomas b1821 d1847 Devizes.
Their father William Perry bap1796 Seend d1839
His brother ,also Thomas bap1791 d1853 Devizes
Their father was Thomas bap1765Ramsbury d1820
His father was John bap ? mar1759 Ramsbury
Then there is a second branch as the Perry’s intermarried.
William Perrybap1796 Seend ( see above) married Mary Ann Perry bap 1789 Devizes d 1850
Her father was Thomas Perry bap 1785 Seend d 1837
His father was Alexander bap 1721 Keevil
His father was Thomas bap 1681 Keevil
His father was Alexander bap 1636 Keevil.
Sadly not a Daniel Perry to be found ! I don’t think we are linked .... what a shame !
Most of this research was carried out by my Aunt who made it to 104 ! She started around 1946 so all her info is from original sources. I got involved around twenty years ago so lots of the later stuff has my input particularly when on line access became available. I made a huge discovery concerning a name just before Christmas ,all because new will information was put on line. I so wanted to tell my Aunt and Dad but sadly they are no longer with us.
If you have any surnames that your Perry’s may have married let me know as I’ve some of those too. Good Luck !