RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Dublin => Topic started by: mwdv on Sunday 04 November 12 06:20 GMT (UK)
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Hi,
I'm assembling a tree of descendants for James Power of 9 Buckingham Place, who was killed during the Easter Rising of 1916 according to the Sinn Fein Handbook. I'm hoping to establish some connection with my grandfather, who left Dublin for Canada soon after the Easter Rising. A post from 2010 by a poster named "genealogymaster" referred to James Power as his 2X great grandfather. If he or any other posters has knowledge of this family, I'd very much appreciate receiving a reply.
Thanx for your attention,
Mike
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Just searched a little for you and found the following:
James Power was married to Catherine Warren
Children to this marriage (http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/search.jsp?namefm=james&namel=power&exact=&name2fm=catherine&name2l=warren&location=&dd=&mm=&yy=&diocese=&parish=¢ury=&decade=&sort=&pageSize=100&ddB=&mmB=&yyB=&ddM=&mmM=&yyM=&ddD=&mmD=&yyD=&locationB=&locationM=&locationD=&member0=&member1=&member2=&member3=&member4=&member5=&member6=&member7=&member8=&member9=&namef0=&namef1=&namef2=&namef3=&namef4=&namef5=&namef6=&namef7=&namef8=&namef9=&namel0=&namel1=&namel2=&namel3=&namel4=&namel5=&namel6=&namel7=&namel8=&namel9=&keyword=&submit=Search) which should help with descendants
Match the following census records James Power (http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Mountjoy/Buckingham_Place/21825/) on 1911 Census with sons James and Richard, and extended family
James Power (http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Mountjoy/Buckingham_Place/1326923/) on 1901 Census with wife Kate and four sons and one daughter; the eldest is shown as 31 implying that he was married before 1871
This could be the son James Power (http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Mountjoy/Nth_Summer_Street/1326142/) on the 1901 census, his occupation, the children’s names and ages are a match but the wife’s name is not but he may have been married twice as the Baptisms for eldest daughters (http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/search.jsp?name2fm=&name2l=comiskey&namefm=james&namel=power&location=&dd=&mm=&yy=&submit=Search&sort=&pageSize=100&diocese=&parish=¢ury=&decade=&exact=&ddB=&ddM=&ddD=&mmB=&mmM=&mmD=&yyB=&yyM=&yyD=&locationB=&locationM=&locationD=&member0=&member1=&member2=&member3=&member4=&member5=&member6=&member7=&member8=&member9=&namef0=&namef1=&namef2=&namef3=&namef4=&namef5=&namef6=&namef7=&namef8=&namef9=&namel0=&namel1=&namel2=&namel3=&namel4=&namel5=&namel6=&namel7=&namel8=&namel9=&keyword=) shows the name Warren as a sponsors
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Many thanx for your reply and search, you seem to have found the remainder of the 12 children of James Power and Kate Warren that I'd missed.
The child that most interests me is the junior James Power, who does seem to have married twice. At least the first two of his children were with Mary Comiskey but by 1911, his wife is a somewhat younger Bridget although the census form states they had been married for 15 years and with 7 children. However, my interest in James Power junior is whether he remained in Ireland the whole of his life.
My grandfather, as far as we know, was named James Power. He died in 1930 at roughly 65 years of age, in Montreal Canada. Family lore has him leaving Dublin soon after the Easter Rising, as a family member was shot. We know little else - all pictures & documents were lost or stolen 70 years ago. I've not found any formal record of marriage between my grandfather and grandmother, so he could well have left a family behind in Dublin. Unfortunately, he didn't sign any of the baptismal records that we've found so far, so I can't compare signatures on the 1911 census forms.
I'm grasping at a thin straw but if I can't connect this family with my grandfather, at least a tree will be available for someone.
Thanx again,
Mike
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The 1939 electoral Register shows a Power family at 8a Buckingham place,
http://www.dublinheritage.ie/electoral/index.php
so going on the basis that the family had this address for a long time I did a search at Glasnevin Cemetary
http://www.glasnevintrust.ie/genealogy/
for James Power with BUCKINGHAM PLACE in the address box and can see James Snr - buried in 1916 and another James Power of BUCKINGHAM PLACE buried in 1925. He is aged 52 so would fit the profile of James Jnr. but only way to find out is the purchase the burial or death record.
>:( (I do hope It's not him)
Edit - In my experience the 20th century Galsnevin records are not very good in terms of detail compared to the 19th c. I'd go for the Death Cert which would seem to be
Jan - Mar 1925
Death Age: 53
District: Dublin North
Volume: 2
Page: 299
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The family shown in Buckingham Place in 1939 on the Register of Electors looks like the same family on the 1911 census
Bridget M., Margaret, John, Richard and Eileen POWER and Mary A. Ryan (also of 13a Buckingham St Upr); Mary A ties in with the marriage on irish Genealogy
With Hasta's find in Glasnevin Cemetery it would look like your James and this James were not the same man, unfortunately for your research.
How extensively have you researched to date?
Do you have the birth certificate of the parent that James is the father of?
Can you locate emigration papers for him?
If we can help further - test us out! -
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I believe you and Hasta are quite right, that the James Power of Buckingham Place is not my grandfather. I'll not drop this tree altogether - I'm still curious to identify Bridget, the presumed second wife.
I've been researching my grandfather off and on for several years, but the lack of documentation makes the search daunting. My mother, now 84 years old, was only 2 when James Power died so many of her stories are second-hand. I do not have access to her original birth record. In Quebec, civil registration of all births was initiated in the 1990s - prior to then, baptismal records served as birth certificates. These have been collected and microfilmed (the Drouin collection) and are available at Ancestry.com. Unfortunately, several of the children of James Power and my grandmother were baptised at a City Mission rather than an actual parish, and some of those records were lost and never microfilmed. I have baptismal records for two of the four children. I have James' burial record, but not his death record. His uncertain marital status has caused problems in obtaining the death record from the Quebec government. They did undertake a search and informed me that they had no record of a marriage between James and my grandmother. I've not searched for emigration documents from Ireland, and the few passenger list entries of James Powers entering Canada during the period 1916-1918 have been uninformative.
A considerable amount of searchable Irish data has become available lately, allowing me to employ some new strategies. I'm searching probate indexes now and will be considering other Power families for whom a death was recorded in Dublin between 1916 and 1918, but some luck will also be required. I'll indeed take you up on your offer to be tested. Your interest and ideas will be most appreciated.
Kind regards,
Mike
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Couple of questions spring to mind
1.) Could James Power have used a different name to exit the country ? Especially if he felt he was under threat.
2.) After 1916 in reality could mean up to 1922/23 and just as easily be using Liverpool or another UK port. A lot of people left during and after civil war.
Sorry to add in more variables
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Hi,
The answer to Q #1 is yes, he may well have used another name for the voyage. In fact, his first child (in Canada) was baptised as Powers rather than Power. We believe he was trying to alter his name intentionally. By 1925, when the 3rd child was born, the surname Power was used.
Regarding Q #2, James' first child was born in April 1919, so he would have arrived in Canada no later than autumn 1918. The vast majority of transatlantic traffic during the two year window in question consisted of Canadian military personnel. Considering that the United States didn't enter WWI until 1918, I've also searched American passenger arrivals. I have found one other James Power family identifiable from the 1911 census for Dublin, but have ruled that James Power out as he apparently lived in Chicago in 1920. I've pretty much given up on finding my James Power from passenger lists.
Thanx for your interest,
Mike
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What was his occupation ?
Reason is that while someone may change name / dob they probably wouldn't feel they needed to change occupation................
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Don't know - nothing distinctive, probably a labourer. My mother remembers only poverty, but James was dead by then.
Cheers,
Mike
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Limerick 1916 memorial sarsfield bridge limerick, limerick
mentiones James Power (Dublin)
http://www.buildingsofireland.ie
type in search box- Limerick 1916 memorial
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I think that this reference is to the stonemason (http://museum.limerick.ie/index.php/Detail/Object/Show/object_id/19485)who carved the monument - James Power (http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/independent-woman/celebrity-news-gossip/acclaimed-sculptor-of-behans-death-mask-dies-aged-90-1711731.html)
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No luck I'm afraid and tried Power / Powers / Powell / Dower / Pownell / Pownall etc
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http://irishmedals.org
James Power killed one of the civilians
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have a look at these sites
http://theirishwar.com
http://www.easter1916net
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http://irishmedals.org
James Power killed one of the civilians
You sure the sentence is the right way round ?
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sorry, James Power was one of the civilians killed in 1916, and not James Power killed one of the civilans.
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So it looks like James Power of Buckingham St died as a result of action during the rebellion
Although he had a son James Power; this man and his family seem established in Dublin and could not be the man that travelled to Canada before 1918 but perhaps another son travelled and changed his first name; or a nephew of his is your James
From what I can see the James Power that died had at least eleven children
We can rule out his daughters, Mary Ann, Kathleen, Florence and Margaret!
James we have ruled out based on all stated before
Richard and John are still in Ireland in 1939 based on the elector register
Joseph b.1884 is not listed on the 1901 census with the family which you would expect and there is no obvious entry for him that I can see
This leave George b1870; Peter b1872; and Patrick b1880 as options
To check for a nephew you would need to go back a generation to James Power's parents and work back down
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You've pretty much summed it up, myluck!
At the moment, I have nothing at all on the possible siblings of the senior James Power who married Kate Warren, so finding nephews or cousins is problematic. My understanding was that the shot family member was a brother of my grandfather, but I chose to also consider other family relationships.
As this line has stalled for now, it's time to move on. Another Power family from the Sinn Fein handbook has caught my interest. Will post a bit later, once I gather some thoughts and facts.
Many thanx to all who have replied here - your enthusiasm is most encouraging.
Cheers,
Mike
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Many thanx to all who have replied here - your enthusiasm is most encouraging.
Cheers,
Mike
Speaking for myself, its finding a connection to a family member long lost is what gives me enthusiasm and also helping someone else find same.
Good luck in your continued searches.
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I agree Oliverd - finding information for others always gives me hope that my missing pieces will either appear in the next search or be found by someone else who can see what I am missing!
mwdv When you get your thoughts together we'll all still be here!
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on irish medals - James Power (70) 8 Buckingham Place
on Sinn Fein hand book 1916
James Power (60) 9 Buckingham Place - interred at Glasnevin Cemetery
Heading on top of page reads:-
250 Bodies Interred at Glasnevin Cemetery Page 60
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hi just after seeing this
I am a direct decendant of James Power
i have the family tree back to the 1700s
Noel Gorman
Dublin
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Hi, Noel - pleased to hear from you:
I began to take interest in your family tree while searching for my Irish grandfather. My James Power died on 5 Apr 1930 in Montreal, Canada. His burial record said he was approximately 65 years old. My mother was two years old when he died. According to her, James lived in Dublin and came to Canada sometime after Easter Rising, after a brother was shot. All papers that could have helped identify him were lost or stolen in 1940, after my grandmother passed away. As my uncle was born in April 1919, James would have arrived in Canada between spring 1916 and autumn 1918. My grandparents never officially married, so I've not ruled out my James Power may have had a family in Dublin.
Not being much to go by, I began with the Sinn Fein handbook and the 1911 census for Dublin. I happened upon your ancestor, James Power of Buckingham Place in the list of casualties and began to catalogue his family, being especially interested in his son James. I brought my interest here to RootsChat, and the Chatters did an excellent job of researching. Their findings effectively ruled out your ancestor's son James as a possible grandfather of mine.
However, I still have other questions for you to answer (or decline to answer):
Did the junior James Power marry twice? His wife was said to be Mary Comiskey (or McComiskey) but in the 1911 census, his wife is Bridget. Are these two the same person?
Were any other members of your ancestor's family casualties of Easter Rising or later (not necessarily fatalities)?
Do you know if any member of your ancestor's family emigrated to Canada after Easter Rising?
Finally, from which child of James Power of Buckingham Place are you descended?
Hope to hear from you either on the chat, or by private message.
Kind regards,
Mike De Vouge
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Hello Mike
I am the great grandson of Geroge Power born 1869 in Newtown, Finglas.
His father James was from a very large family (13 ) .
All been born in or around Swords, Malahide and Kinsealy area of north county Dublin.
I have tried to cross reference James Power who could have married twice with the first name Bridget but there are no matches.
Therefor i would be sure Mary and Bridget are the same person.
James born 1871 in Kinsealy who married Mary Comisky (date unknown) died in 1925 and is buried in Glasnevin.
His son also named James born in 1909 died 1951 and is aslo buried in Glasnevin.
James who died in 1916 is also buried in Glasnevin.
He was married to Catherine Warren and had 11 children.
There is a possibilty that one of his brothers could have had a son named James who may have left Ireland after the 1916 rising but todate i cant be sure of this.
This is James (died 1916) brothers and sisters
John born 1835 died 1844
Elizabeth born 1836
Richard born 1837 died 1847
Patrick born 1839
Joseph born 1839
Margaret born 1841
Bridget born 1842
John born 1844
James born 1846 died 1916
Richard born 1847
Mary born 1849
Michael born 1851
Peter born 1853
I havent come across any other family member involved in 1916.
If there is a connection with your James Power it could be from one of the above brothers of my James.
I hope this helps in some way
I did a death search for your James and there is no record for his death in 1930 Canada are you sure of the date of death?
Regards
Noel
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Hi, Noel:
The 5 Apr 1930 date for the death of my James Power is accurate. His 10 Apr 1930 burial record can be found in the Drouin collection of Quebec vital and church records. I also have an attestation from the Quebec government that confirms the date. Unfortunately, the government has twice denied my applications for a copy of his act of death. A catch-22: they won't send it to me without more information about James, when I need the act to find out more about him. I've just made a third attempt, with more supporting documentation. One can hope...
Regards,
Mike
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Mike did you follow your James through the Montreal directories to see when he may have come to Canada? He was a labourer in 1921 and is not the place in which he lived 1921 the following year nor the year prior, so you'd have to see if you can find him by elimination, and the addresses on the children's births if it was listed? Did you check all avenues to confirm he was NOT born in Quebec by Quebec born parents of Irish origin before continuing? Of course census not always accurate, but still should eliminate the little info given before moving on...He may have even had problems domestically and contrived a story elsewhere...
If he was born Ireland & was the father of the oldest child in 1921, born 1915 then he came to Canada 1914 or earlier That is a hard window to find entries to Canada.
My condolances as I see your mother just passed away recently. i Imagine you'd have like to have solved this for her as well.
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Hi, J.J.:
Thank you for your kind words - yes, I was hoping to solve the James Power mystery for my mother as much as for myself. Eventually time runs out on us all...the genealogy has not seemed quite so urgent since her passing.
I have been researching any James Power born in Quebec abt 1869 give or take 5 years, in the event that my grandfather actually didn't lie on his census of 1921. There were a number born in Quebec within the time line, many but not all can be ruled out. That line of research is ongoing.
Using directories to trace James during the twenties is potentially difficult, but its an avenue I haven't pursued yet. In a poor neighbourhood such as Griffintown, James Power and his family moved often, so following his movements during and before that time may or may not be informative.
Kind regards,
Mike
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Eventually time runs out on us all...the genealogy has not seemed quite so urgent since her passing.
I have been researching any James Power born in Quebec abt 1869 give or take 5 years, in the event that my grandfather actually didn't lie on his census of 1921. There were a number born in Quebec within the time line, many but not all can be ruled out. That line of research is ongoing.
Yes, I totally understand it is harder to persue, you may want to leave it for a while...
When i started on here, I'd have helped you a lot more, but I never really got thanked enough for my days worth of comparing census notes to directory notes for others...
maybe one day you'll get back to it... Best of luck when you do! J.J.
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I'm intrigued by this story and am not sure if I can help in any way but I thought this might be a start.
On the 1915 Dublin Electoral Roll there are a number of James Powers ~
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7 Mount Temple Road
8 a Buckingham Place (already discounted)
32 Molesworth Street
2 Harman Street
2b Echlin Street
21 Prospect Avenue
14 Queen Street
Given that it's the nearest available documents that I can think of to 1916 I'm wondering MIGHT it be a starting point !
Tara
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What were the names of James' children in date order please ?
Tara
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This is a total long shot
BUT
This chap is only 3 doors down from James Power on the 1911 Census
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Mountjoy/Buckingham_Place/21803/
Tara
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Had an answer but Mike has middle and third names for all the children in the next posting
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Off topic from this thread and for those who find this info please don't answer this thread if you are a descendant, but just noted ...Looking at the 1921 census... that living next to James at 166 (actually 165 in directory) is a Charles ward from Ontario, but he's been transcribed as surname Maud.
I once knew where to report errors but did't see any link to send me there....
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Hi, J.J. & Tara:
I meant to write more last night J.J., but was falling asleep at the keyboard. Be aware that your interest is very much appreciated. I was trying to figure out how you knew so much about my family but of course, the Internet is quite revealing. I also have a public tree on Ancestry.ca. I too have been disillusioned by lack of appreciation when assisting posters in genealogical blogs. Even a mere "thank you" makes a search worthwhile.
To address the question I didn't initially answer, Audrey was an elder half-sister of the Power children. After my mother's death, I had opportunity to chat with cousins I'd not communicated with in decades and was stunned to learn that there had also been a youngest half-brother. No one ever mentioned or discussed him at our house, and I only have a vague idea of the reason.
In this vein and in response to Tara, the full names of the children of James Power (and Jane Ethel Walton) were:
Robert James Kitchener Power;
Margaret Mary Victoria Power (the only child for whom a baptismal record hasn't been found);
Gloria Evelyn Rose Power;
Olive June Dorothy Power (my mother).
The names do tend to reflect one Irish RC parent and one British CoE parent, and only Margaret ever used her first name (unless she was actually baptised Mary Margaret). Which parent do you suppose proposed a naming after Lord Kitchener?
To the best of my knowledge, all the children were baptised CoE (Anglican in Canada) although some were baptised at the Montreal City Mission rather than at a parish church. None were baptised RC.
In response to Tara's suggestions of last night, I had spent some time systematically researching the James Powers of the 1911 census and had consulted the 1915 and 1939-40? electoral rolls and also the odd probate. I had to go back to some notes this afternoon and remember where that work stood. The James' of Molesworth St., Mount Temple and Queen Street can be ruled out by continued ownership or known death in Ireland. Some of the others could stand a look.
Tara, you had also mentioned Thomas James of Buckingham Place. I had tried to investigate how he related to the other Power family living there but never got anywhere with that. One would think it would be easy to trace a wife named Phoebe, but I wasn't successful there.
I have a longshot that interests me as well - the James Power who is at Percy Place, Pembroke West in 1911. Although married, he is enumerated alone. He also can read but not write, a trait apparently common to my James Power if the 1921 census is to be trusted. It is perhaps the reason he never signed any of the baptismal records.
In any case, the investigation is ongoing. It remains intriguing despite many frustrations. Of my 4 grandparents, James is my only brick wall so I inevitably return to it when something new occurs to me.
Many thanx to both of you for your continued interest! Hope to hear from you again.
Kind regards,
Mike
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I deleted what I had there as it was incorrect...No I don't have ancestry sub...I saw the 1921, remember? I saw the children Olive & Ivy with your Jane, entering Canada. It was the home child aspect that drew me to your thread. You must have had quite a search in that aspect alone, as I saw Jane's father, marrying as a young lad, off to India as i saw those births as well, back to England, dying young and leaving so many children scattered.
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Yes, the three sisters were placed in the Liverpool Sheltering Home and shipped to Canada in 1901. Each went to a different family - Jane Ethel went to an apple-growing area south-east of Montreal. Her sister Olive went to Cornwall, Ontario where Jane eventually went in 1940 just before her death. Barnardo's was very helpful during that research, they provided a dossier on Jane that filled in a number of details of her early life in Canada. However, they would not provide data on Jane's sisters, as I wasn't a direct descendant.
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Hi There
It's SUCH a shame that we don't have at least a father's name for James !
IF his Canadian marriage was his first one, then NORMAL Irish naming traditions would suggest that James' father's name would have been Robert.
Given his older age for his Canadian marriage leaves it open that he MAY have had a prior marriage and children BUT given the specific story re his departure from Ireland SURELY a prior marriage would also have been part of this story, so, for now, I would work on the Canadian marriage being his first.
Brings us back to a POSSIBLE father's name of Robert ~ did the Christian name Robert feature in his wife's family ~ to either rule it in or out as a possibility ?!
What are all the indications of James' religion ?
Was it ever looked into that James was possibly born in another County in Ireland but was just in Dublin around the time of The Rising ?
IF Robert is looking like a possibility for his father's name then I would lean towards Wexford as a possibility ~ just an instinct though !
Also, we are working on the presumption that it was a Power relation of James that was involved in The Rising. It MAY have been someone on his mother's side (we don't know her name though) :(
A MAJOR job would be to get some sort of an injured list from 1916 together and then go to the irishgenealogy site (presuming that James was from inner city Dublin).
Then see are you getting any sort of a cross reference to any possible Power families.
Again, BIG job, but one for the 'possibly to do on a nice quiet day'.
Was there EVER any mention of a Dublin street that he may have lived on ?
If I think of any more avenues that you could try to chase up on then I shall let you know !
Tara
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Hi, Tara:
All are well thought out suggestions, but I know so little about James that I likely wouldn't recognize a strong candidate if I saw one. There is no evidence that he was necessarily born in Co. Dublin.
To answer your questions, James was definitely RC. However, his son's first name Robert probably derives from his maternal grandfather Robert Charles Walton. As hinted before, I thought that the use of Kitchener as a middle name for James' son was odd for one thought to be an Irish republican because even though born in Ireland, Kitchener served as a British officer. I'd considered at one point that James could have served as a British soldier (or even deserter) but a strong candidate hasn't materialised. He might have been a bit old to serve in WWI. In any case, I doubt that his Mum chose the middle name Kitchener.
Please feel free to make further suggestions if any come to mind.
Kind regards,
Mike
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Hi Mike,
Not sure if you will see this post but I have info that may help in your search of your long lost ancestors. The James Power who was shot in 1916 was my 2x Grandfather. If you are still looking please reply and see where we go.
Regards,
Mark
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Mobsy,
As you say, James Power who was killed in 1916 is your 2x grandfather and is mine also. This would mean we're related. Do you have more information regarding the Powers?
Noel
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Mosby,
As you say, James Power who was killed in 1916 is your 2x grandfather and is mine also. This would mean we're related. Do you have more information regarding the Powers?
Noel
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Hi Noel,
I have some knowledge of the Powers from an Aunt who is 1 of only 2 living relatives from my side of the Powers. If you are willing we can email direct or meet and exchange info. I live in Swords North county Dublin.
Regards,
Mobsy
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Hi Mosby,
I only live 10 mins drive from Swords.
Over the years I have collected a lot of information about the Power family. I recently made contact with a lady living in Australia who is from another branch of the family.
I believe the farm which is noted on some of the birth, marriages and death certs is still standing in the Kinsealy area.
Dont post your email here.
After posting 3 times you will be able to send private messages.
Look forward to sharing more information.
Best Regards Noel
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Hi Noel,
Sound advice, I only became involved in this earlier in the year and only from time to time. When this thread goes private we can divulge more. I am probably not experienced enough in researching methods to do any better. There is a guy in previous threads called Mike, do you know him?
Regards,
Mark (Mobsy)