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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: Hyjean on Monday 12 November 12 04:25 GMT (UK)
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It's known that Elizabeth Cassidy Married Ah-Kin Gin on March 1875 at Launceston 12 Apostles.(Certificate held.)
It's known that Ah-Kin Gin died at a tin mine in north east Tas Weld River aged 50 on 3/4/1890
Inquest held 4/7/1890, verdict-accidental death.( Colonial Tas Archives). Actual age would be more like 41 at time of death rather than the stated 50. From age stated on marriage cert as 24
the birth date year is about 1851.He was a Chinese Immigrant.
Children:
Ethel Maud Ah Kin born 1885 Portland Tasmania
Emily May Ah Kin 1887 died Feb 1889. Inquest held- Launceston Examiner 16/2/1889- died of natural causes accelerated by improper food and bad treatment
James 1889
In 1892 recorded in Colonial Archives (Tas) that Elizabeth married Wing Chin
and had issue Grace Lillian Kin Chin
Elizabeth died 23 Feb 1896( Certificate held)
States:- Partus aged 47 at Wyniford River Tas
Born Gravelley Beach West Tamar
Informant George Ah Kin Son Wyniford River.
My question:
Is there a census that would enable me to find out what happened to Ethel, James and Grace and where George fitted into the picture. Until the death dertificate there has been no mention of a George Ah Kin.
Cheers Hyjean
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Hi Hyjean,
The indexes to surviving census records for Tasmania are on the Archives' website:
http://portal.archives.tas.gov.au/menu.aspx?search=10
The latest is 1857, so no help to you.
I cannot see a George AH KIN on Tas electoral rolls in the early 1900's.
The news article about Ah Kin's death in 1890 says that he had six young children.
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article12699408
I think that I would be looking at orphanage records from 1890 onwards.
Debra :)
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Dear Hyjean,
Elizabeth Cassedy sounds like a very white Caucasian name. Marrying a Chinese person in Australia at that time would have put poor Elizabeth outside respectable society.
Have you looked for the children registered in her maiden name?
Have you looked for Anglicised versions of Ah Kin?
If the children didn't look Chinese there is a fair chance that they took other surnames when they got older.
Hope that helps, Cheers Ted
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8) Thanks Dundee
Apologies for late reply.Have had fingers in many pies which were not in Tassie.
Thanks for Mercury reference to 6 young children. That was news to me.Family myth has it that my gt grandmother returned to Tas from WA and brought a child back here.No concrete evidence.
Will follow up orphange suggestion.
Cheers, Hyjean
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::)Thanks Tedscout for contribution.
Yes, the anglicised version is a possibility. Elizabeth Cassidy's mother was an Irish Catholic as was her sister both married under RC rites. The mother was re-married in Dec 1874, one daughter Jan 1875. Elizabeth herself was married at a private house by a Wesleyan minister in March 1875. So that would be alienation from the RC church. Also it is noted early 1875 a man was convicted of calling out offensive words to Elizabeth whilst standing at the door of her house. She took him to court and he was fined. One assumes that they were racist slurs as her friend Ms King who was with her also married a Chinese named Ah Kit.
Recently whilst in Malaysia when my son married a Chinese lady I checked out names. I'm not sure whether Gin Ah Kin is correct. But think so.
CHeers, Hyjean
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She unfortunately would have copped a fair bit from unenlightened one's. Anglisised names are very common from the 19th century Aichin and Aitkin are sometimes used. I had a schoolmate of english Chinese heritage and am fairly sure his name was spelled Aichin. ::)
He died in Vietnam and his First name was Thomas so he was Tom Tong to us ;D
Neil
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:) Thanks for comment Neil. Life would have been tough enough in the 19th c without intermarriage.
Just recently I was sitting next to an English born gentleman in a history class.His working life was as a mining engineer in Africa- which may explain his comment. He asked the question why an Anglo Saxon person would ever marry an Asian. The lady on the other side remarked that her daughter in law was Chinese and I added that I have 2 daughters in law who are also Chinese.These 3 women are all highly educated -barrister and pharmacist in my case- but he was perplexed and then conceded he was "old hat" but was bewildered nonetheless. So imagine 150 years ago and the re-action considering this attitude is still rife today. I perhaps could understand if the values and education were not compatible but it did make me think. And that's good too.
Your friend lay down his life and obviously his folks felt the need to conform by anglicizing their name! That too would have been a good few years ago. One lives in hopes and Tom Tong was probably remembered with affection under that name without todays political correctness.
Cheers and thanks for input. Hyjean
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Hi there,
Have you ever checked out the Mr KIN, who was a passenger on the vessel "Tasmania" into NSW (Hobart Town to Sydney) on 26 March 1855?
http://srwww.records.nsw.gov.au/indexes/searchform.aspx?id=43 This is the INDEX. You may need to contact NSW State Records Office to find further information about that index entry as it seems "Copy service is not available for this index".
Cheers, JM
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Added later: Oops, this was cited by Debra earlier
Hi,
The Dynamite accident that killed Gin Ah Kin and Aug Ah Chun at the Weld claim in 1890.
Gin Ah Kin left a widow and 6 children.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/12699408?searchTerm=
Gerry
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Another newspaper record relating to his death says "five children"
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/39552115
There are some images of Tasmanian BMDs now on familysearch.
Here hopefully links to Ethel Maud:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0u5j/
(if not it's under "Launceston and County Districts, RGD 33/64. Births, 1885, Launceston and country districts, B-Victoria, page 290")
Only additional information - birthdate 6 August 1885, registrar informed by letter from Elizabeth from Weldborough.
There are indexes - but only the three Ah Kin children you already have seem to be on them (including son James as "James Tas Ah Kim"). Grace Lillian's birth is here also: http://www.rootschat.com/links/0u5n/
It seems likely that there were children born between the marriage in 1875 and the registered birth of Ethel in 1885 (might depend on how they encouraged/forced registration). If George was an informant at his mother's death I'd imagine he was born late 1870s.
There was a "George Kin", a Chinese interpreter, in the early 1900s in Tasmania who seems like a good possibility for "George Ah Kin" the son of Elizabeth.
Court case reference (might indicate that he was not born China although not entirely conclusive)
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/50661648?searchTerm=%22George%20Kin%22
Death in 1919 for George Henry Kin, aged 38, husband of Ruby Myrtle:
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/51051778
His will is on the Tasmania archives and confirms that the man who d. 1919 (probate 1920) was a Chinese interpreter.
His wife may have been previously married to John David Chapman - there is a Trove reference for this man's death in 1908 (and the sad death of a child to John and Ruby in 1906) and there is another will in 1983 for a George Albert Kin who was unmarried but had a niece and nephew named - one a Chapman.
I think Ruby must have remarried as George Albert Kin has a WWII record with next of kin as "Ruby White".
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:DThanks majm-have used NSW reference.
Thanks also Aussie1947 for references re chn of deceased. One child had died so journos reference to 5 or 6 children may have been accurate. Info appreciated.
JoRose the docos and website exceeded all expectations. I went to W.A. Genealogy Soc with the hope of tapping in myself to other records but was unsuccessful.
Family myth has it that someone from WA came and brought Grace here from Tas. She would have been 4 only when her mother died. I checked out the limited written records from Orphanages at WAGS Library but hit a blank.
Grateful for all information. Thank you again.
Cheers, Hyjean
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Also it is noted early 1875 a man was convicted of calling out offensive words to Elizabeth whilst standing at the door of her house. She took him to court and he was fined. One assumes that they were racist slurs as her friend Ms King who was with her also married a Chinese named Ah Kit.
Could Ms King be an anglicised Chinese name?
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;) Thanks Tedscout for comment. I have made reference to that article which appears on Page 1.
Fanny King was married on 4/3/1875 at the private house of her father Tobias King, Launceston. She was 18 and married Ah Kit a storekeeper aged 36 who signed with a X. Rev Edwin Nye officiated according to Wesleyan Church rites. Witnesses Tobias King, Eliza Cassidy
Elizabeth Cassidy was married 25/3/1875 also at the house of Tobias King to Ah Kin 24 miner signed with a X.She was 22 and farmer's daughter and also according to the rites of the Wesleyan Church. Rev Joseph White officiating. Witnesses were Tobias King and Fanny AH Kit.
Thanks and cheers, Hyjean
Fanny King
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I suppose you have searched the WA BDM's for Kin and Cassidy referances ???
Problem looks as though quite a few of the children wern't registered if there was six. ::) So it would be very hard to find someone when you don't know their name.
Some of the children would have been old enough to look after any young one's if Elizabeth died 1896. IE george could be 21 in 96. ???
Neil
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Thanks for clarifying that Hyjean. I was just trying to think outside of the box. ;D
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Hi there Hyjean,
I have some questions ....
;D May I ask if you have considered posting RChat links to your earlier threads where this chap has been mentioned.....
:) In the meantime, have you obtained copies of the Insolvency files held by the NSW State Records Office for a chap by the name of George Ah Kin. (link later in this post)
:) Some mentions in newspapers that you may already have found re a George AH KIN:
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/104749839 The Bega Budget 20 December 1905
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/15577398 SMH 20 March 1915
;D ;D Then there's this:
Elizabeth died 23 Feb 1896( Certificate held)
States:- Partus aged 47 at Wyniford River Tas
Born Gravelley Beach West Tamar
Informant George Ah Kin Son Wyniford River.
My question:
Is there a census that would enable me to find out what happened to Ethel, James and Grace and where George fitted into the picture. Until the death dertificate there has been no mention of a George Ah Kin.
The indexes to surviving census records for Tasmania are on the Archives' website:
http://portal.archives.tas.gov.au/menu.aspx?search=10
The latest is 1857, so no help to you.
I cannot see a George AH KIN on Tas electoral rolls in the early 1900's.
;D ;D So I think that it is possible that the chap in NSW listed on the Bankruptcy INDEX could be that son, George AH KIN. You would need to access the file to establish further details. Have you checked out that Bankruptcy?
http://srwww.records.nsw.gov.au/indexes/searchform.aspx?id=59&new=1
Then there's this
The NSW ER 1903, EDEN MONARO, polling at Bega
Lilly AH KIN, Carp St, domestic duties.
:) Who was this lady ? She was obviously a British Subject, aged at least 21 years, but the Electoral Rolls do NOT indicate if that was by birth or by naturalisation, and if by birth, if the birth was in one of the six Australian Colonies.
And finally ....
:D Thanks majm-have used NSW reference.
:) Sorry Hyjean, but I am somewhat confused by your reply to my earlier post giving you a pointer to one of the many INDEXES at NSW SRO.... (Index to the Unassisted Arrivals NSW 1842-1855)
Cheers, JM
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Hi
NSW Country Directory 1895
NIMITYBELLE
Stores
Ah Kin, George.
Gerry
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I had a long post which I have now lost. (stupid computer)
In summary:
Australia Recordsearch shows a Charles James King b. "Wedborough" (Weldborough on image), aged about 27 in 1915, wife "L.M." (Lilian Maisie on some records, previously listed as friend "L.M. Bell"). He was 5'2", brown eyes, black hair, according to original enlistment. He later gives his dob as 9th August 1895 in 1918 (when he joined the AFC).
A birth record for "Charles James King" does not seem to exist - but "James Tasmania Ah Kin" was born 9th August 1889, Weldborough.
There is an image of "Lieut C.J. King" during his time in the AFC here (front row second from left).
http://www.awm.gov.au/collection/D00124/
http://smct.org.au/deceasedsearch/
- here both Charles James King and Lilian May Bell are listed - he in 1954 and she in 1960.
I believe the marriage took place in 1915 - from what I can wrangle out of the Victoria BMD indexes without paying (Chas Jas King to Lilian May Bell)
His death:
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/26604298?searchTerm=%22Charles%20James%22%20King
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Well found Jorose,
There's 45 pages digitised for a Charles James KING at the National Archives of Australia's website ..... Dob and place and nok match your finds for Chas Jas KING ;D I feel sure that Hyjean will have info to hand to help advance the search.
http://www.naa.gov.au/collection/search/index.aspx (barcode 1970828 )
Cheers, JM
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:) found George Ah Kin in 1903 ;D
NSW ER 1903 EDEN MONARO, polling at Bemboka
AK KIN, George coach proprietor, of Bemboka. NO others with that surname at that polling place.
(yes, that is AK KIN, not AH KIN and there's a space between the two "K"s). NO others with similar surname at that polling place either.
Of course there's plenty of printer errors, so that could be a printer error. What it is telling me is that George AK KIN, the coach proprietor, was a British Subject and was aged 21 years or over. Whether he was a British subject by birth or by naturalisation is NOT something I would ever expect to find on an NSW electoral roll. But if he died in NSW, I would expect to learn from his death cert (or official transcript) where he was born, and how long he had lived in the colonies/states of Australia.
Cheers, JM
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Re the age of Ah-Kin Gin in Hyjean's initial post:
"Actual age would be more like 41 at time of death rather than the stated 50. From age stated on marriage cert as 24 the birth date year is about 1851.He was a Chinese Immigrant."
A Chinese friend recently explained to me that Chinese measure age differently. The example he gave was for a Chinese child born in December: the time in the womb is counted, so at birth the child is 1 year old, come 1st January, the same child may turn 2, then at Chinese New Year (usually around mid-February), the child becomes 3 years old.
While this doesn't account for the 9 year difference in Hyjean's post, it does highlight the need for caution when considering the age of a Chinese person.
Regards, Ron
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I believe the marriage took place in 1915 - from what I can wrangle out of the Victoria BMD indexes without paying (Chas Jas King to Lilian May Bell)
There was a marriage registered for this couple in 1915. The reg# is 9782
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Thanks one and all for your great help quite a bit has been unravelled.Gratefully received.
It seems in the case of the 2nd generation the Ah Kin became King or Kin.Special thanks for detective work on Charles James Kin/King and birthdate and place of birth.
Thanks to jorose for pointer towards Family Search site which up until then i had no idea that images for Australia were included and in particular Tas.Have started laboriously scouring the resources for BMD's with Cassidys and Kins in mind.
That will take some time.
majm thanks for help. I don't have any info to add. I have only some certificates and family heresay (very unreliable) to go on so an extremely limited starting point.In fact so secretive were the Chinese connections that my mothers grandmother went to the grave without revelation. My late mother had no idea that she had a Chinese great uncle and Eurasian cousins.She may have been more circumspect in her outlook if she had known.
Connecting rootschat links had not occurred to me as my i/t skills enable me to get around at a fairly basic level. There are not many tricks in my repetoire.
I checked out the NSW reference and drew a blank so more inclined to follow Ah Kin from the Tasmanian base as an adult.
Very interesting regarding Chinese births. Also I'm told that surnames are exceedingly common and repetitive.
Very pleased to receive all contributions and admire the forensic skills of all.
Sincerely,
Hyjean
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Thank you All for your detective work about James Tasmania Kin (in Tasmania) who appears to have turned into Charles James King (in Victoria).
Even though it would seem correct, just wondering if anyone has unearthed any conclusive evidence that it is the same person? I'm not sure what that could be - orphan records?, travel documents?
Also, I have quite a bit of information about CJ King and descendants, and his wife Lillian May Bell and her ancestors. Please ask if you have gaps in your records, I may be able to help.
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Hi Helen6,
Have been following this thread for awhile ,you mentioned that you had more information on
Charles James King.
I am trying to follow up on Bridget Cassidy "Australasia" and descendants.
If however her daughter Elizabeth born at The Ross Female Factory was the Elizabeth who married Ah Kin and mother of Charles.
Cheers
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:)Hello,
Just wanted to tell you I have researched Bridget Cassidy Australasia some years back. She turned out to be not my Gt Gt Gt gtprandmother. There is quite a bit about this particular Bridget in a book about Convict Women called " A Drift of Derwent Ducks" by Trudy Cowley.
I eventually found my Bridget Cassidy through the Launceston Examiner & info wedding certificates. I contacted Launceston Library & an astute librarian realised the RC priest had been writing Cassarly on their certificates. One expects the recipients were illiterate & he was Irish also. A broad accent obviously interpreted Cassidy as Cassarly. I hope this is helpful.
Cheers Hyjean
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Hi Giblin46,
I'm not sure that we have the same person.Working backwards from James Tasmania Kin (Charles James King?) -
His mother was Elizabeth Cusack; parents Michael Cusack and Bridget Reddin; born 11 Dec 1854.
There was no birth cert. only the Baptism record from the Church of the Apostles, Launceston. The place of birth given as Gravelly Beach on her Death Certificate.
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:)Bridget Reddin is my gt gt grandmother. She married Michael Cusack of Quin-Clooney Parish Co. Clare in 1852.
June 1854 for Van Dieman's Land arriving Hobart Town on "Maitland" September 1854. They were sponsored immigrants to a Dr Maddox of West Tamar & obviously made their way north.
Elizabeth Cusack was christened Launceston 11/12/1854=mother the former Bridget Reddin simply stated godparents Mary & Leo.
By 1855 Bridget Reddin-Cusack was remarried to Patrick Cassidy -lodging house keeper of Cimitiere St Launceston.
From then on Elizabeth was known as Cassidy. Patrick died & 20 years 1875 on Bridget Redden-Cusack-Cassidy married Michael O'Connor a farmer-man of property and fellow traveller on the Maitland. Eliza Cassidy was a witness at the wedding.
First child Bridget Cassidy 27/10/1856 2nd child Michael 14th January 1858-died 1881-Aged 26.
Michael O'Connor drowned in the Tamar Oct 1881
Elizabeth Cusack-Cassidy Ah Kin (married March 1875) 's husband died at Weld River July 1890-accidental explosion.
1892 Elizabeth Cusack-Cassidy-ah Kin marries Wing Chin at Ringarooma mining community-Grace Lilian Chin born later 1892.
Elizabeth died aged 47 23rd Feb 1896 -post partum on death Cert - her mother Bridget Reddin-Cusack-Cassidy O'Connor died April 1896.
Hope this is useful to the mix.
I should have added that I have followed the other Bridget C 'Australasia' & presented a session on her a few years back .Cheers. Hyjean ;D