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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Aberdeenshire => Topic started by: francestogneri on Monday 19 November 12 12:18 GMT (UK)
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I am using a combination of Ancestry and scotlandspeople but have reached a point of confusion. I found online trees showing William Freeman Ruddiman as a Burgess of Aberdeen although I don't think their tree is the same as mine unless there is a sibling connection.
William was born about 1801 in Aberdeen and married Jean or Jane Dalgarno on 17 September 1865 at the bride's house by the minister from Shiprow Church (Old Relife Church?). I have documents and census info to confirm I have the correct woman. William's death cert (28 Jan 1860 in Aberdeen) gives Joseph Ruddiman and Elspet Freeman as parents. The trees I found on-line show Elspet Freeman married a Joseph Munro, not Ruddiman. Joseph Ruddiman's father may also have been Joseph (born 17 March 1729 at Monquhitter(?) to James Ruddiman).
Jean's parents (her death 17 Sep 1865 in Aberdeen) are William Dagarno and Margaret Runciman. Like someone else, I find the lack of sibling information for this period a problem.
Can anyone confirm whether William was indeed a Burgess of Aberdeen or throw some light on the people mentioned? Frances
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Hi Frances
Welcome to RootsChat :)
Someone else here on RC researching the Dalgarno family, see http://surname.rootschat.com/sit-surnames.php?chatter_id=59969 She has only posted once, http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,304214.0.html
On the Dalgarno family, is yours one of the trees on a/try?
Can only see so far one record for a sibling for Jean (born https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XBQ3-8KM) - a sister Barbara (married George Harris died after the 1881 census?) http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,304214.0.html
People have likely (hopefully!) confirmed other siblings for Jean via their death certs, such as the likely sister Margaret born c. 1808 who married a Norman Meldrum and died in the 1880s in Scotland.
Monica :)
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On William Freeman Ruddiman, who reported his death in 1860? I wonder if a mistake was made on names :-\
A William Freeman Ruddiman shows as born to a JOHN Ruddiman and ESTHER Freeman in 1801 https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XBQ3-8KM
Other siblings seem to include:
Esther https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XBQQ-B6X
John https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XBQ7-KVC
Possibly Jean (only father's name) https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XY9C-CMC
There seem to be a lot more siblings for this William as parents John and Esther married in 1777 and William b. 1801 is showing as the last born of at least nine children.
William Ruddiman and Jean Dalgarno's children's names do seem to point to William's parents being perhaps John and Esther - their children's details here www.rootschat.com/links/0s99/
The family in 1841:
William Ruddiman 40, pawn broker
Jean Ruddiman 42
Esther Ruddiman 16
Margaret Ruddiman 16
Elisabeth Ruddiman 9
Isabella Ruddiman 2 weeks
Address: Shiprow, Aberdeenshire South
What occupation was given for William's father, from his death cert entry?
Monica
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Thanks for such a quick response! The census info for 1841 is definately my family - I have followed the twins Margaret and Esther and verified data. William is a Wright on his marriage and a Pawnbroker in 1941. At his death he is a Cabinet maker, which seems to be a family trade. His father Joseph was also a Cabinet maker.
According to the Hickernell Tree and other families on Ancestry, Esther Freeman, born 1754, Aberdeen appears to have married John Ruddiman (born 7 November 1745) in 1777 and they had a son, William Freeman Ruddiman, born 28 February 1801 in Aberdeen. He died 28 January 1860. This confirms the information you give (however, I think the link is wrong). I thought this was a different person. The name of the informer of William's death, a son-in-law, is something (Thomas I think) McGregor.
Elspet Freeman was baptised 22 June 1785. Her parents are Alexander Freeman and Anne Aiken. I feel certain she is the mother of the twins in the 1841 census with one being named after her. I had not considered the possibility that her mother-in-law is ESTHER Freeman. This is odd but could be the key I am looking for. This is now beginning to make some sense. Now to the Dalgarno family.
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Re Dalgarno - My tree is the Steele Family. It was marked private while I was doing some intensive work on it but should now be visible. Jean Dalgarno is my link to that family but I did not come across any siblings. I have noted that Jean's daughter, also Jean and also sometimes called Jane, tended to name their children after family members. I wonder if the twin Margaret Dalgarno was named after Jean's sister?
I think you have helped make a few things more clear, thanks. Do you know anything about William Ruddiman being a Burgess of Aberdeen? I am now beginning to think this is correct (from the Mennie tree among others). There is also a Dalgarno who made violins and cellos and may be related.
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I knew there was a problem with the information. I have just checked William's death cert again and William Ruddiman's father is definitely JOSEPH Ruddiman and not JOHN Ruddiman. shame - it was all coming together there!
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Frances, regarding the parents' names given by son in law for William at his death registration in 1860, I am pretty sure that a mistake was made. Not uncommon and it did happen, but nevertheless, a pain when it did happen as you can spend time (and money) chasing ghosts... You need to satisfy yourself, but I would say that the names Joseph and Elspeth don't really feature in your line from what I have seen so far.That aside, from everything around (and there does seem to be quite a bit), if you I would be getting more comfortable that you have his parents in John and Esther, names that your William went on to give his children.
I think a number of the trees for Ruddiman look to be well researched (I specially think it is useful when they add as images their original sources as you can see how people have reached their conclusions).
The Mennie Tree seems to have a lot of info as does a few others. The Wood Tree has images connected to William Freeman Ruddiman being admitted to the Trades Burgess Register in 1823. Have you seen this document? All fits well. Father and brother, both called John, also show as wrights by occupation. Also included are images of his birth entry on the OPRs. A number of others have good sources and also have included some family photos which is always a bonus :)
I wonder where the middle name of Baxter (as in Elizabeth Baxter name) came from? They seem to have used it across a number of generations.
For additional sites to help, not sure if you have across them. This is a useful one for Scottish naming pattern www.halmyre.abel.co.uk/Family/naming.htm Not always used in strict order (sometimes not all) but surprising how often it was used to a great degree. Can give lots of clues about family names further back.
The use of surnames for middle names is also prevalent with Scottish names, often from the maternal female side.
Something that can sometimes trip up (apart from how fluid and irrelevant spellings were leading to many variations on spellings) is that the Scots and the Irish loved having and using first name variants. Jane/Jean/janet/Jessie are all common variants and would often be used across any registration - see www.whatsinaname.net/female-names/Jane.html
Monica :)
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Monica - thanks again. I have seen the information you mention. As you say it all fits nicely. Oddly I was just wondering if I had an almost duplicate William Ruddiman. The only place I have seen Freeman used as his middle name is on the Marriage certificate. Everywhere else he is just 'William'. I only added the 'Freeman' to my record when I located his death certificate and noted the maiden name of his mother. I must admit I wondered about the name 'Joseph'. This is the first occurrence of that name. The only other is the 1729 baptism at Monquhitter.
I have not seen the links re the naming of families although I very quickly realised this was how to trace my family tree. My Grandfather was Steel but my Grandmother was one Margaret Ruddiman McGregor Morgan. Quite a handle! With the discovery that they all lived in and around Aberdeen, this was a gift. It makes the William Ruddiman hassle easier to bear!
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I notice a few discrepancies in your posts, Frances. :)
You said William married on 17 Sep 1865, died 28 Jan 1860, & was a Pawnbroker in 1941. Do you have a correct date for his marriage (or did he marry Jane/Jean on her deathbed?)
I'll go & see if I can uncover anything on William Ruddiman.
Regards,
flst
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I'd a look on the National Library of Scotland's website but didn't find any mention of your William Ruddiman:(
Also had a look for a will or inventory on Scotlandspeople,no luck there either.
flst
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Is it just a coincidence that your grandmother had Mcgregor as a middle name & that William's son in law was a Mcgregor also?
flst
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Probably a typo. Here is the information:
William Ruddiman:
b. about 1801
m. to Jean Dalgarno 7 Feb 1824. Marriage witnesses were John Ruddiman and William Dalgarno (householder and presumably Jean'sfather)
d. 28 Jan 1860. The name of his wife is not shown on the certificate, but he is 'married'.
At 1841 census he was a pawnbroker. When his twin daughters, Margaret and Esther were baptised (13 Dec 1824), his occupation was a Wright. This is the only use of the middle name Freeman. The death certificate shows he was a Cabinet maker. A William Ruddiman (pawnbroker) also turns up as a witness at a baptism in Dundee (from Mennie tree on Ancestry).
Jean Dalgarno, sometimes shown as Jane:
b. 31 May 1799 (I don't have the media for that)
m. as above, d 7 Sep 1865.
d. 17 Dec 1865
In the 1851 census she was a washerwoman, living at Windy Wynde, Aberdeen. I had assumed her husband had died and needed to find her own income. She is the head of the house. Where was William? IN 1861 census she is a fund holder.
I don't have any census information after 1841 for William until the death certificate in 1860.
Re McGregor - The twin (Margaret) married Charles McGregor. They had a large family, one of whom was Jane Smith McGregor. Jane married Robert Morgan in Aberdeen. My grandmother is their daughter.
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Last question! What does the date 17 Dec 1865 signify?
flst
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Date of death for Jean Dalgarno
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I have been trying to trace any William Ruddiman and there is one born in the same year residing at Gamrie in 1941 but I don't think he is relevant even though family names are similar, including an appearance of the surname Smith. I have traced back down my tree to my grandmother and I am certain I have the correct Ruddiman. I can not find any trace in the 1851 census. It's as if he died before then. I double checked what the Mennie family have online, but they also have the 1860 death certificate.
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Hi Frances
From what you have so far, I think you are following the right line so far :)
Has anyone checked the original image of the 1851 and 1861 censuses (on SP only I think as I cannot see the family's entry on FreeCen www.freecen.org.uk/) to see what Jane Ruddiman's marital status shows as? A/try's transcripts do not include this info.
Monica
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Have you got these entries for children of William and Jane:
www.loadsofpeople.co.uk/ef_11035.html - just search for key word 'baxter' - this is for Elizabeth Baxter Ruddiman.
www.enkel.com/skaterow/web-cards/PS08_294.HTML - details for Thomas Milne Ruddiman.
Monica
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Isabella b. 1841 I think went on to marry William Ferrier Allan in 1869 https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XTJ3-DJS (would need to be confirmed via their marriage cert).
Some of their children here www.rootschat.com/links/0s9l/ - looks like twins ran in the family!
From 1881:
William F Allan 34, Comb Merchant b. Aberdeenshire
Isabella Allan 39 b. Aberdeenshire
George M Allan 11 b. Aberdeenshire
William F Allan 9 b Edinburgh
Isabella R Allan 9 b Edinburgh
Henry D Allan 5 b Edinburgh
Address: 377 High St, Edinburgh
Monica
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Hi Monica
I found the information on Elizabeth but not the info for Thomas. Thanks.
I am preparing a list of the questions I can't answer and planning a trip to Edinburgh in early December. I will add viewing the original census material to my list. I think I will need to take a sleeping bag!!!
Not come across freecen before. Interesting that a neighbour of the Ruddiman family is Kitson, a name appearing as a middle name in the Ruddiman/McGregor family!
It has been really great having so much assistance and interest in my family search. Much appreciated. Yes - twins run the the family. My grandmother was a twin but her brother died young. Not got round to tracing his death yet.
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Lucky you to be going into Edinburgh...with your sleeping bag ;D Get organised and have lots of blank forms to be able to fill in.
I would also take a written up tree/forms of what you have seen in the Mennie/Wood trees for the Ruddiman side of the family...as I have said ::) I do think this is where you are pointing now with the Ruddiman side.
Monica :)
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Jean Dalgarno, sometimes shown as Jane:
b. 31 May 1799 (I don't have the media for that)
m. as above, d 7 Sep 1865.
d. 17 Dec 1865
Sorry to be a pest,but you said her date of death was 7 Sep 1865 (which is why I queried 17 Dec 1865)!
flst
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Fist - Sorry - don't know why I have put that date in again. I checked my posting and had both! The correct year is as for William on my previous post - 1828.
Monica - yes, I already have some prints from the part of the tree giving me such problems - also a list of checks. It's getting even longer! By the way, I noticed the problem death certificate is available on the Mennie tree. Despite the obvious name issue they have ignored that the father is given as Joseph. I wonder why?
The mother of William according to the document, Elspet Freeman (baptism 22 June 1783), is about a generation apart from Esther Freeman who was probably born abt 1754. I need to find the original marriage entries.
Frances
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Problem solved!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I found the Baptism record for 28 February 1801 showing John Ruddiman as the father of William Ruddiman.
This shows that the father given by the son-in-law on William's death certtificate is incorrect. It also throws doubt on the mother's name.
Thank you both for having the patience to work through this confusing information with me. I can now be confident that I am going forward with true data.
Frances
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That is great Frances ;D Knew you would get there!
You now have record of a William Freeman Ruddiman born to a John Ruddiman, a wright by occupation, and mother Esther Freeman.
You also have mention of a William Freeman Ruddiman being admitted to the Trades Burgess Register in 1823, father John (also elder brother John) also a wright.
His marriage to Jane, showing him as William Freeman Ruddiman, as does his 1860 death cert (boo to son in law for registering wrong names for parents, but happens...).
I think the outstanding piece for William is where was he in 1851?
Monica
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True! Odd that he has not turned up on any census check. I think he was in the pub!
Frances
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I knew there was a problem with the information. I have just checked William's death cert again and William Ruddiman's father is definitely JOSEPH Ruddiman and not JOHN Ruddiman. shame - it was all coming together there!
Just a thought... I saw the death certificate on ancestry and at the bottom righthand side there's a note referring to a correction (volume 1,page8, Feb 3 1860). Have you viewed the register of corrected entries?
flst
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Fist
No - I was short of credits at that point. My previous experience was that these usually give an update to the medical condition. William died from a (supposed) Heart Condition so I assumed the corrected entry would confirm this. I will add this to my list of things to check!
Frances
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You may be right about that,but on the other hand,anything on the certificate could've been corrected,including names! :)
flst
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Fist, Not something I was considering at the time. I don't have credits to check it at the moment. I found I could buy them half price at the library, but there were no continuation cards available at the time.
Frances
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Have you already viewed the certificate on scotlandspeople? If so, I think you can see the corrected entry for one credit.As it's not essential at the moment,it'll have to be put on your list of things to do when you've bought more credits!:)
flst
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Fist
As I said to Monica, I plan a visit to Edinburgh soon. There are so many things I want to view it will be cheaper even with the travelling! It may sound odd but I now know much more about people who lived a few hundred years ago yet I don't even have the names of my father's siblings! We moved from Aberdeen when I was four and visited rarely after that. I am only getting to know the family now!
Frances
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I bet you'll enjoy your trip to Edinburgh. I've never been,but I'm sure I'd spend days there if I got the chance! Happy hunting!
flst
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Flst
I was there in September for an introduction - talks and coffee. We were shown the computers and given some time to use them. The staff couldn't get us to leave!
Frances
Thanks again for your help. I am now reviewing what I have gathered and trying to get my head around all the duplicate names in this family.
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Hi
Has anyone found a connection between Jean Dalgarno (1799 -1865) and any of the Dalgarno families around Aberdeen in the 18th century? Jean married William Freeman Ruddiman in 1824. I believe she had a sister named Barbara, born 1801. Her parents were William Dalgarno and Margaret Runciman (married 17 Nov 1776). I think the father of William Dalgarno was John but I may have the wrong person.
I have found at least two distinct families. I suspect the one from Slains is the more likely but I can not find information to confirm or deny, despite having baptism records from SP.
Frances
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Hi Frances,
I have no connection to the family or the area....but with a hour or so to spare on a wet morning I had a look on Familysearch and Freecen website to see what I could find. The unusual surname caught my attention.
Anyway I discovered (as you probably already know) that William and Jean Ruddiman had several children;
twins Margaret and Esther (called after each grandmother) followed by a John (possibly William's father's name ???) and second son William (named after Jean's father).
Their third daughter has a middle name Elizabeth Baxter Ruddiman as does their their son Thomas Milne Ruddiman. Other children are Jane and Isabella. All born in St Nicholas district of Aberdeen.
The use of the middle names may well point to other family members either on the Ruddiman or Dalgarno side of the family.
I did turn up on Familysearch an Alexander Dalgarno born 1766 to a William Dalgarno and Elizabeth Milne. Maybe you already have this info? ??? This Alexander was born at Old Deer Aberdeen.
The date you have given for William Dalgarno and Margaret Runicman is 1776, I found it on Familysearch listed as 13/11/1796. A Typo perhaps :)
Just wondered if perhaps this Alexander is linked to your William. Might be worth looking into. If they were brothers it could mean that Jean Dalgrano used her parental grandmother's maiden name as a middle name for her third son. Phew...I hope I've explained that OK!
Cheers Looby
Added- When I typed out above it was for a new thread which had vanished by the time I came to post the reply :o
This is a cut and paste job I've added to an existing thread. Sorry if it's going over old ground.
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Hi Looby
Just checked my tree and the marriage date is definately 1796! Typo! I am a bit stuck on where to go. You are correct about the middle names for Jean's children - I have tracked most of their middle names to other family members. I am confident with William Dalgarno as Jean's father - this is backed by documentation. I found a baptism record for a William:
'16 April 1769 John Dalgardno in new in new Clochton had a Child baptised named William in Presence of the Congretation.(from OPR)'
If this is my person, his father was John and this fits your theory. Jean was married to William Ruddiman. By coincidence his father also was John so the child was named after two grandparents. I just can't find information to confirm I have the correct John Dalgarno.
Trying a different approach, I worked backwards. There are only two William Dalgarnos (even allowing for name variants) who died between 1789 and Jean's death. Given that her parents died before she did and she was born in 1799, the 1789 William can't be him. That leaves the other William. He died in 1828 so he is very possible.
Only problem is 1) This William died just north of Peterhead, and
2) I think William was still in business as a mason in Aberdeen until 1831 after which date his Post Office Directory entry disappears.
Dalgarno and its various spellings originated at a Dumfries-shire abbey around the 12th/13 century. When the monks left the abbey some travelled to NE Scotland and settled in Aberdeen area. The name is still very common there. I met someone (surname Dalgarno) at the weekend who had been told the name was possibly Spanish. There is no evidence for this although it may have a French connection.
Anyway, back to my people; I am aware of a John Dalgarno, born 1753 at Slains. He had a brother Alexander, a twin born 1756. Their mother is given as Isabel Clark, not Elizabeth Milne and is not the same Alexander you found. Complicated, isn't it?
Pleased to have prevented boredom on a wet day!
Frances
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There may have been any amount of William Dalgarnos who died within the time frame you're searching in. Deaths weren't always recorded nor burial records kept.Those that remain sometimes are incomplete too:(
flst
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It isn't just the death records I have been struggling with! The cluster of people around said William Dalgarno appear briefly around 1800 then disappear again. Anyone born after about 1790 appears to be traceable through the generations. For one person I can only find a date for death, and thereby birth, on a gravestone!
I have tried broad searches in sp but any hits vanish as I get close to the relevant date or place. I have even found that the only hit anywhere close is not the correct person. This is complicated by the fact that I am looking fo OPRs that may not contain much information anyway. I think I have exhausted FamilySearch records but I keep going in to try a variation on previous searches - just in case. My hope is that someone has been researching my branch of the Dalgarnos and will read my message. So far any promising information has failed to end with the correct people.
To success!
Frances
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Looby
I forgot to add when I replied to you - I checked the information you gave for Elizabeth Milne. Again, the information is too vague to rely on it. I have also a possible Milne connection on the other side but can't confirm it. There are a few middle names in that generation I have not found, eg Baxter, Blackhall, Kitson, Donaldson. I am sure they will be there when I hit the correct parents for someone.
Frances
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Frances,
Have you seen the family tree info on Family Search website for the Dalgarno's?
Looby
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Looking at Family Searches User Submitted Genealogies Barbara Dalgarno who marries George Harris in 1828 has several separate entries.
One lists her with William Dalgarno and Margaret Runciman as her parents and another records her as being the daughter of a Joseph Dalgarno and a Barbara Dalgarno ???. Both entries record her marriage to Harris and list her children.
Looby
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Looby
Yes, I have the spouse of Barbara Dalgarno but no information as yet for him. Unfortunately, the Dalgarno trees I have looked at show that Margaret Runciman and William Dalgarno died prior to the birth of their two children! I suspect they married late which is why there are no other children or they were very unfortunate with infant deaths. If Margaret was William's second wife it could explain the lack of good information. I checked Ancestry trees but no-one seems to have earlier information about them.
I discovered Margaret had a brother, Andrew, who farmed at Dyce. He had to pay tax on two horses on his farm so I think he was the farm owner rather than a tenant. He had three daughters.
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Looby
I have been looking at FamilySearch again and came across the Barbara Dalgarno/George Harris entry. I see her father is Joseph Dalgarno. This is obviously why I did not get any further than recording a name for George Harris. My Barbara was born 1801. George Harris married Barbara born 1804 according to the database.
Oh well, at least I can remove notes for the Harris family. My earlier info is probably not accurate.
Frances
Barbara /DALGARNO/
birth: about January 1801
St Nicholas, Aberdeen, Scotland
death:
more
spouse:
George /HARRIS/
birth: about 1796
Scotland
death:
less
More information
marriage: 11 December 1828
Old Deer, Aberdeen, Scotland
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There appears to be conflicting information on Family Search, Frances. One entry records Barbara as being the daughter of Joseph https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.2.1/9932-7JQ
and the other link her to William and Margaret https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.2.1/ST92-WF6.
These entries are supplied by contributors to the Family Search site and someone has obviously made a mistake ???
Don't discount Barbara yet - she could still be Jean's sister!! :D
Looby
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Looby
What a nice thought that it could be so easy to make the missing link! There is no doubt my Barbara is the daughter of William and Margaret. She is also the sister to Jean who marries William Ruddiman. These are the only two children I have traced in this family. I have documents for these people and although the OPRs provide little information, witnesses to Barbara's baptism are John Dalgarno (shoemaker) and Andrew Runciman (farmer). I haven't been able to find a John Dalgarno listed as a shoemaker in Aberdeen so I am not sure of his relationship. Could be Barbara's uncle or grandfather. By the way, if you are unaware of the Post Office Directories (National Library of Scotland), they are another source of information if you have tradespeople in your family.
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OK, so the above Dalgarno search failed. I have taken a membership offer for Ancestry but any promising leads failed to produce reliable results and I can spot errors in some trees I have checked. Sources appear to be other Ancestry treet.
There are lots of John Dalgarno's in and around Aberdeen. I have located John who was a shoemaker in the 1841 and 1851 census for the village of Deer/Old Deer). He is probably my shoemaker, but I stumbled on unexpected information:
In my tree there is a child named Elisabeth Blackhall Kitson Mcgregor, born 1868. I have found a birth in 1847 (Aberdeen St Nicholas) for Elisabeth Blackhall Kitson. This seems to be some coincidence! :-\ :-\ I think mine was named for this one. Her parents were Henry Kitson (a seaman) and Eliza Dalgarno. Eliza/Elizabeth died in 1882 at Banff. Unfortunately her parents were not known by her children with who she was living at her death. Her father is named as ---- Dalgarno, shoemaker.
I am unable to find further information but I need to connect John with a family containing a William Dalgarno who married Margaret Runciman in Aberdeen and had a child Jean Dalgarno in 1799.
Can anyone see a way forward??
Frances
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Hi Frances,
Checking out Family Search I found 4 children to a Henry Kitson and Eliza Dalgarno all at Saint Nicholas, Aberdeen.
Henry Ketson (spelling as online) chr. 10 Feb 1842
Isabella Dalgarno Ketson( ") chr. 23 Nov 1840
Elizabeth Kitson chr. 11 Jan 1845
Hellen Blackhall Kitson b.7 Dec 1847 chr.21 Dec 1847
Henry Kitson and Elizabeth Dalgardno (spelling as online) married 13 Sep 1839 at Old Machar, Aberdeen.
Elizabeth Dalgarno could not have been the daughter of the John Dalgarno shoemaker whom you discovered on 1841 and 1851 Census :( His age on 1841 is recorded as 25 (I can't find him on 1851 ??? ). She is old enough to marry 2 years earlier in 1839.
It's proving to be really hard to link all these Dalgarnos together!!
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Hi Looby
Yes, that's the stage I have reached. It was when I saw the middle names of the children I thought - assuming the one is named after the other - the two families must have been close. Henry Kitson died after 1851 and Elizabeth moved to Banff to live with family. I had hoped I could come around in a circle and 'sneak up' on John from a different angle.
I think John in Old deer might still be my shoemaker but if so, there must be another one around whose birth is in the correct time frame. I have checked the trades Burgess records and apprentice register for John but he does not appear. These are both online but they seem to only cover Aberdeen city. I have other ancestors in both books.
There appear to be Dalgarno strongholds at Slains (still a possible family), Old/New Deer, Peterhead and Longside. All are within a reasonable distance of Aberdeen. When I traced Elizabeth's death after 1855 I thought I had it. Imagine my disbelief when I saw the parent information missing :'(.
By the way, my friend Carole searching for her missing grandfather Scott in the Borders found not only him but family she knew nothing about. I know you were trying to help her.
Frances
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Hi Frances,
Oh yes Carole with the Scott/Hay/Hogg dilemma! It's great she's having a family get together soon ;D
Back to your Kitson family (or perhaps not your Kitson family)....Isabella Dalgarno Kitson is their first daughter ....so I would not be the least surprised if Eliza Dalgarno's mother was called Isabella Dalgarno. Incidentally I couldn't find the Kitsons on the 1841 ???
Also on 1841 Census there is a family of Dalgarnos living at Scroghill ,Old Deer, Aberdeen
John DALGARNO 40 Farmer
Agnes " 50
Thomas " 15
Barbara " 12
Barbara HARRIS 8 Female Servant
In the previous household is a Barbara Dalgarno age 70 a Stocking Weaver. All were born in Aberdeenshire.
The name Harris caught my eye as you had a Barbara Dalgarno marrying George Harris in 1828. Could this be their daughter? Or is it just a coincidence?
Looby
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Looby
Checked my info again - another point of interest! My Helen B K McGregor was born 29 Aug 1868 in BANFF! I could not understand this but I have the documentation. Her parents were visiting the Kitson home!! The address on the child's birth cert and Eliza's death cert are the same!!! This probably explains the duplicate naming.
Re the Census: I don't have these saved but I just looked them up again. No 1841 Census. 1851 - 1881 only. I will look into your Isabella theory. By the way - I checked the Harris spouse connection. I am certain the trees I looked at are not accurate. Spouse Harris married a different Barbara, not my family. I have visitors arriving tomorrow, so it will be a few days.
Frances
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Does anyone out there have any fresh ideas? Re the above - I have been round some graveyards in the Aberdeen area and noted any Dalgarnos appearing there but none seem to relate to mine. I think they must all be in Aberdeen itself.
I found the stone for Barbara Dalgarno who married George Harris and with the information I tracked Barbara. She is definately not the one on my tree who was born/baptised January 1801 to William Dalgarno and Margaret Runciman - https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XBQ3-2BL. Unfortunately I have found nothing else for her.
I have checked with Aberdeen Archives but they have no record on John Dalgarno, Shoemaker.
Frances
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I am looking for the parentage of Andrew Dalgarno born 1730 ish in Longside. Married to Jannet Davidson in 1756 in Old Deer
Have not seen a baptism for him though other Dalgarnos with offspring around the same age
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Hayley
Sorry, this is not good news for you. Some time ago I searched for all Dalgarnos on FamilySearch then posted them into a spreadsheet to look for family groups. I found your Andrew and his spouse, also children Sylvester and Christen. I did not find obvious parents for Andrew. If you have already searched, I think the record(s) no longer exist.
I never did solve my John Dalgarno problem. I think his records are missing. I was able to follow the Kitson family but still can't 'fit' them into my tree. So many Ancestry trees have conflicting people I don't know if the answers we seek will be found. On the bright side, anything we can verify before 1800 has to be a bonus!
Frances
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There was an Alexander Dalgarno listed as a resident of the Buchan Combination Poorhouse in the 1881 census. Age 36, unmarried, occupation "Mason". I do believe he is the father of my GG Grandmother Jane Hutche(s)on's illegitimate son Alfred Dalgarno Hutcheson, b. 1881, in New Deer. Jane was a resident of that same poorhouse/workhouse at that time, as was the infant Alfred. She had at least 3 other illegitimate children with different fathers!
I have not researched Alexander Dalgarno further as he is not a blood relation to me, but I would certainly be interested if perhaps he may be connected to some of your Dalgarnos? His birthplace is stated to be Fraserburgh.
Good luck!
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As mentioned in another post Fogmoose, the poorhouse's records will record the parentage ( & much more information) on it's inmates. Have you followed that line of inquiry yet ?
flst
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To be honest flst, I was not able to easily see where to send the inquiry to. I know you said there was a link to an "archivist" but I could not find it.
If I need to send a snail mail request I can draw one up.
I know Its bad form to jump to conclusions re: parentage, but I don't think Dalgarno was THAT common a name and the ages and dates are correct, so I think its a fair assumption. More research certainly needs to be done!
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Have a read of this page. You can then email the NHS Grampian archivist with your request for more information. Any problems, let us know!
flst
http://www.aberdeencity.gov.uk/education_learning/local_history/archives/loc_poorreliefrecords.asp
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Very informative reading, thanks. I sent off an email requesting information to Fiona Musk, the relevant archivist. I will post any discoveries to this and the other thread as they come in. Thanks again!
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Hi
After some considerable time I have found a source of information for Dalgarno. This may be rather time consuming, but on a visit to the Aberdeen and North East Scotland Family History Society office in King Street, Aberdeen, I had some success at last. A 5th cousin (also researching) ran a check on burial records for Dalgarno. This produced three records for children of John Dalgarno, Shoemaker and another for his wife, Catherine Carrol. Ages and addresses are included. I believe this to be my missing shoemaker. In with these records were two burials for children of my other Dalgarno (William). I asked for the relevant microfiches and now have prints.
Perhaps an enquiry to these people might be a way forward if no other information comes to light? Remember there are variants on this name. Some of my records were found under Dalgarden. I think his spouse may also be listed under Karl in records though I have not checked this yet.
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The Alexander Dalgarno (also spelled Dalgardno or Dalgairn) that had a child with my GG Grandmother Jane Hutcheon in 1881 was from Fraserburgh.
I have found his family in the 1871,61,51 and 41 censuses. Father Joseph and mother Anne Robertson. Joseph was born 1802 in Lonmay. Parents James Dalgarno, Shoemaker and Helen Hay. If anyone has links to this family I would be interested in hearing from them.
Corrected, Thanks Ruthhelen!
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Also see this thread for more info re: Alexander Dalgar(d)no.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=764025.0
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Hi,
Francestogneri, I have John Dalgarno b1767, shoemaker who married katharine Carle, b 1776 in my tree. John is my husband's 4th G Grandfather.check on burial records for Dalgarno. This produced three records for children of John Dalgarno, Shoemaker and another for his wife, Catherine Carrol. Ages and addresses are included. I believe this to be my missing shoemaker. In with these records were two burials for children of my other Dalgarno (William). I asked for the relevant microfiches and now have prints.
Perhaps an enquiry to these people might be a way forward if no other information comes to light? Remember there are variants on this name. Some of my records were found under Dalgarden. I think his spouse may also be listed under Karl in records though I have not checked this yet.
John Dalgarno and Katharine Carle were m 27 Aug 1797 Old Machar. Son Joseph b 1806 and John( our line) b 1808 St Nicholas. I can give more info on Joseph and John . Would you be willing to share the prints of records you have for John and Katharine's children? Please message.
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Hi Red Roses
Quite happy to share information regarding this elusive Dalgarno family. Contact me at (*)
(*) Moderator Comment: e-mail removed in accordance with RootsChat policy,
to avoid spamming and other abuses.
Please use the Personal Message (PM) system for exchanging personal data.
but please allow me a week to reply! I am travelling home from south of France and stopping along the way.
Look forward to chatting on email. Thanks RootsChat for making this possible.
Frances
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Hi,
I'd be interested if anyone has links or info on
William DALGARNO and Lizzie GREIG (b.Drumblade 1889), who married in Ellon in 1926. As there were so many Dalgarno in Aberdeenshire, I cannot pin down his parents. I know about the Greigs, anyone with interest in Greigs of Rothiemay/Drumblade are welcome to PM me.
'gene-genie'