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General => Armed Forces => World War Two => Topic started by: Lynntony on Thursday 22 November 12 18:19 GMT (UK)
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While researching some family connections I came across Lance Sergeant Reginald Elwell, my 1st cousin 2x removed. He was killed on the 13 June 1943 "On Active Service". Trying to find out more, I Googled his name and regiment and found that many of his comrades also died on the same day. Nothing strange about that but, what did arouse my curiosity was the fact that, in all cases, the "theatre of war" was given as UK. Does anyone have an idea about the circumstances were that led to so many men from the same Battalion dying on the same day in the UK?
Tony
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Tony,
The only info I can find is reference to two accidents during 1943. One was on a night practice drop in Scotland when a stick of eight parachutists were accidentally dropped over the sea and all but one were drowned. The second incident occured when another stick of eight were lost when their aircraft flew into high ground in the south of England. I have not been able to ascertain a specific date for either incident, but this would appear to relate to your enquiry.
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CWGC website http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/2712969/ELWELL,%20REGINALD
Son of Thomas and Nellie Elwell, of Heath Town, Wolverhampton; husband of Ada Elwell, of Heath Town.
Buried Heath Town, Staffordshire, so his body was probably brought home for burial.
There are only a handful of 1943 burials there and none that would link with your man.
Running a search for deaths on that specific date brought up a group of men from that unit, all buried as far as I can see in their home churchyard or cemetery. These were a Major, a Lieutenant, the Lance Serjeant, a Corporal, a Lance Corporal and three Privates.
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Looks like this is the tale....http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ww2peopleswar/stories/68/a8714568.shtml
My nagging doubt is the distribution of ranks in this group....
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Sharki, I did wonder about a training excercise accident and I think your post does tend to confirm that. I did come across one death on Google that stated that a 19yr old drowned in Scotland whilst on a training exercise but didn't realise that there were two accidents. Thanks for the input.
Graham, I have found out that Reginald's body was returned to his family for burial, which took place at his local church of Holy Trinity, Heath Town. I have also been lucky enough to find a picture of his gravestone on-line. I'm waitng for a reply from the church on another query regarding earlier members of the Elwell family and hope to visit the churchyard and grave sites once they get back to me. It would be interesting to find out the dates of both accidents to identify where Reg. died. Thanks for your info.
Tony
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Hi All
Thirty years later
http://www.paradata.org.uk/units/15th-battalion-parachute-regiment-15-para-sv
The more we move on the more we stay the same.
Yours Aye
BruceL
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Tony
I am due to be visiting the National Archives for a week in January 2013. As my interest is in Airborne Forces I can tell you that the War Diary for 8th Parachute Battalion is under reference WO 169/10350.
I was not intending on this particular visit to copy any war diaries but can put this on my list of things to do if you so wish. I do intend to copy numerous War Diaries in due course but that is a long term project.
I have also had a quick look in 'Though Without Anger' by Colin Cummings but there are no air crashes shown for the 13th June....if I/we can identify which squadron was carrying these troops then the ORB's are available to be downloaded, or I may already have them.
Regards
Andy
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Reginald's death was registered in Scotland under the district of Dunbarney and Dron, near Perth. The image of the register entry can be viewed on Scotlandspeople and printed off for, I think, about £7 or a certified extract can be ordered from GROS, either direct or through Scotlandspeople, for £12.
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It's possible that the death was registered at Bridge of Earn Emergency Hospital, one of several hospitals established in Scotland at the beginning of WW2.
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There's still an annual reunion at Hardwick Hall and many veterans attend. It might be worth you finding out when it is and popping along. I helped out at one a few years ago and it was a really lovely day.
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Thanks for all your replies.
I'm inclined, after a night's sleep, to go with the accident in Scotland as the date of the death of one of the victims is the same as my 1st cousins and his obit states "drowned while on training exercise in Scotland". The fact that the death, as IMBER has put, was registered in Scotland more or less confirms it.
Andy, the report that Graham found is interesting. It seems, rather than being a crash, one of the planes on the exercise overshot the target dropzone, the sun shone on the green light, and the men jumped. Sadly, they were over the Firth of Tay, one can only imagine that the weight of their kit would have given them little chance of survival in the water. The War Diary report would be interesting, but only if you have time, and certainly not at the expense of any other research you have planned.
katiespitfire, interesting that the reunion is at Hardwick Hall as Bess of Hardwick (fascinating woman, and well worth reading about) is a distant ancestor of my wife Lynn. We visited the Hall earlier this year - magnificent!
I think this one can be put to bed now. Thanks to everyone for your help and input. I'll mark it completed but if you have any other info you can post it on here as I'll keep checking back. Or you can send me a PM
Tony
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Hi
Cost of cert on scotlandspeople would prob cost 6 credits
30 credits cost £7.00 cost per cert about £1.40
Bridge of Earn Hospital opened in 1939 and closed in 1992/3
Yours Aye
BruceL
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Thanks Bruce, I'll bear that in mind, and thanks for the info on the Hospital.
After reading the story on Graham's second reply, it does make one more than a little aware of certain dates and numbers - Fri 13th, 13 planes!!
Tony
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Bess certainly was a character, 'Hardwick Hall, more glass than wall' read an excellent book on her last year.
Good luck with your research.
K
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I've just been contacted via email by Bernard and Fay Robins in France, who collate Para records, and who picked up my search via this board.
They learned, from an ExPara who knew Reg, that he was hit by a falling container which fractured his skull. He died that night from his injuries.
That is the final piece of this particular jigsaw - but I doubt that it will be the last puzzle I come across!
Thanks to everyone for their input and interest - it's what makes this forum the best! :)
Tony
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There may be something of interest in the units war diary
WO 169/10350 8 Parachute Regiment 1943 Jan.- Dec
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Hi Tony,
Hope you get this. I, too, have been researching this incident since my mother witnessed it. I now have a lot of the details, but not all. Please get in touch. Kindest regards.
Michael