RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Wexford => Topic started by: Fran J on Wednesday 28 November 12 04:00 GMT (UK)
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Hi I am new to this site and I am searching for family by the names of French and Hayden, both are from County Wexford, Ireland, I know they lived on Distillery Road and from what my Mother could remember her parents telling her they actually lived near the old distillery, my Mother was only 2 weeks old when she was brought to England, that was in the beginning of November 1920, my Grandfather was Martin Moses French, my Grandmother was Sarah Jane French (nee) Hayden, my Mother was Sarah Elizabeth French, her married name was Johnson, but it is the French's and Hayden's I am searching for, if anyone can give me any help or info it would be gratefully appreciated.
Fran.
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Welcome to rootschat Fran. I think this would be better on the Irish board. I will ask a moderator to move it for you. Irish research is a bit of a specialised field. Have you checked the 1911 and 1901 Irish censuses for your family:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search/
I will leave it for the Irish experts to help you further. Good luck.
Moderator Note - topic moved to Co. Wexford
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There's a Distillery Road in Wexford town, which starts at the Quays and goes west toward the road that ends up at Wellingtonbridge.
The distillery was called Bishop's Water and located slightly to the west of the town in the townland named Slipperygreen. No sign that I see of any French or Hayden household in that townland on the 1901 or 1911 census .. although they could be somewhere close by - see : Slipperygreen townland, 1911 (http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search/results.jsp?census_year=1911&surname=&exact=&firstname=&county=Wexford&townland=slip*&ded=&age=&sex=&relationToHead=&religion=&education=&occupation=&marriageStatus=&marriageYears=&childrenBorn=&childrenLiving=&birthplace=&language=&deafdumb=&search=Search&sort=surnameSort&pageSize=100)
see : Introduction to Irish Records (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,442233.0.html)
My Ancestor came from Ireland - where do I start? (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,498742.0.html)
Shane
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as a starting point - it looks like these are the best candidates for Martin and Sarah with their families on the census returns
French household, Fishers_Row - 1901 (http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Wexford/Wexford_Urban_No__2/Fishers_Row/1807558/)
French household, Fishers_Row - 1911 (http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Wexford/Wexford_No__2_Urban/Fishers_Row/697347/)
Hayden household, Carrigeen St. - 1901 (http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Wexford/Wexford_Urban_No__2/Carrigeen_Street/1807307/)
Hayden household, Carrigeen St. - 1911 (http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Wexford/Wexford_No__2_Urban/Carrigeen_Street__part_of/696695/)
All the addresses are in Wexford town. Fisher's Row is just off the quays, and a short distance east of Distillery Rd. Carrigeen St. is about the same distance to the north of Distillery Rd - so all within close walking distance.
If these are the correct people, then both Martin and Sarah were born around 1895. So presumably they married sometime between 1911 and 1920, possibly in or near Wexford town...
Shane
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looking good... there's a likely marriage on the BMD Index during 1915 :
Name: Martin French
Registration district: Wexford
Event type: Marriage
Quarter and year: Jul-Sep 1916
Volume: 4 / Page: 393
A matching entry appears for a Sarah Hayden, so very likely a cross-match.
You can use the references above to order a research marriage cert from the GRO. This will give a few more details, and hopefully confirm the above census returns are correct.
see : Ordering Certs from GRO Roscommon (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,599538.0.html)
Details included on a Marriage Cert (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,433042.0.html)
Shane
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these are the best birth matches I see for that Martin & Sarah - certs would show further detail to help link confirm these links - e.g. place of birth, father's name & occupation, mother's maiden name etc,
Name: Martin French
Registration district: Wexford
Event type: Birth
Quarter and year: Jul-Sep 1894
Volume: 4 / Page: 659
Name: Sarah Hayden
Registration district: Wexford
Event type: Birth
Quarter and year: Jul-Sep 1895
Volume: 4 / Page: 682
see : Details included on a Birth Cert (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,433041.0.html)
Shane
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Thanks for moving this to the Wexford board Shane ... and you've made some great finds too. :)
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Fran
hi there
we should chat,
I have recently been searching the same two surnames with similar results to those already noted on this thread by shanew147 etc.
(in fact i had a look through these threads only a week ago and no mention of french or hayden then your posts comes along today yippeee)
currently chasing the connection between Hayden and possible marriage to Sarah (Kehoe) who had 12 siblings one called sarah, another of the 12 siblings is possibly my grandmother.
The Thomas and Sarah Hayden (head of house hold and spouse) mentioned in Carrigeen street 1901 1911 census I think the wife is possibly Sarah nee Kehoe but will confirm once I find marriage or birth cert.
my grandmother is possibly the Stasia mentioned as step daughter in the same census records
the Martin French mentioned by shanew147 would be my grandfathers brother :-)
a quick thank you to Shanew147, your posts here have helped put confidence to my original searches
I have an excel spreadsheet of the links i've made already which I would be happy to share.
I have sent you one pm with my details, cant send you anymore as your inbox is full or you may need to post a few messages to the forum to increase you inbox limit.
maybe we should chat further
thanks
homerj
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not sure if you already have this ....a possible Hayden/Kehoe marriage from the BMD Index
name: Thomas Hayden
registration district: Wexford
event type: Marriage
Quarter and year: Jan-Mar 1891
Volume : 4 / Page : 588
The same references appear for a Sarah Kehoe.
see : Ordering Certs from GRO Roscommon (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,599538.0.html)
Details included on a Marriage Cert (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,433042.0.html)
Shane
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possible birth for 'Stasia' :
Name: Anastasia Hayden
Registration district: Wexford
Event type: Birth
Quarter and year: Jul-Sep 1887
Volume: 4 / Page: 736
not sure about how the ages, and various relationship fit together ... Thomas is 30 in 1901, yet has an 11 year old grand-daughter?
S.
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hi again
yes thanks that's the one im chasing at moment.
I think it then links back to a Martin Kehoe Mary Kehoe (clancy) 1901 census record
The Stasia that im interested in in the 1901 1911 census records for Hayden is down as step daughter so a little harder to track down any further but just matching that Stasia to being my grandmother is fine.
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ah ha yes that one is a mistery,
I did at one stage think his age was wrong as in the written census record 1901 you could make it to read anything from 30 to 38 to 50 or 58
but the 1911 is clearly written as 40 which would tally to the age 30 on the 1901 census
our guess at the moment is that they use the term grand daughter loosely and she's a relative of sorts.
don't wish to take over Fran J's post :-) - hope this is ok chatting on here
homerj
Quote:
possible birth for 'Stasia' :
Name: Anastasia Hayden
Registration district: Wexford
Event type: Birth
Quarter and year: Jul-Sep 1887
Volume: 4 / Page: 736
not sure about how the ages, and various relationship fit together ... Thomas is 30 in 1901, yet has an 11 year old grand-daughter?
S.
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I am searching for family by the names of French and Hayden, both are from County Wexford, Ireland, I know they lived on Distillery Road and from what my Mother could remember her parents telling her they actually lived near the old distillery, my Mother was only 2 weeks old when she was brought to England, that was in the beginning of November 1920, my Grandfather was Martin Moses French, my Grandmother was Sarah Jane French (nee) Hayden, my Mother was Sarah Elizabeth French, her married name was Johnson, but it is the French's and Hayden's I am searching for, if anyone can give me any help or info it would be gratefully appreciated.
Fran.
Martin & Sarah married on 20th August 1916. It would appear that by 1916 their parents had moved to Birkenhead (Liverpool) and Rathdrum (Co Wicklow) respectively. Their marriage is recorded in the local Bride St church parish register - see below.
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Martin French was born on 22nd June 1894 in Byrnes Lane (Fishers Row). The parish records confirm he was baptised & married in Bride St church.
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Sarah Hayden was born on 20th July 1895 in Talbot Street - Baptisim again in Bride St church.
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Quote:
possible birth for 'Stasia' :
Name: Anastasia Hayden
Registration district: Wexford
Event type: Birth
Quarter and year: Jul-Sep 1887
Volume: 4 / Page: 736
not sure about how the ages, and various relationship fit together ... Thomas is 30 in 1901, yet has an 11 year old grand-daughter?
This Anastasia Hayden was born to a Thomas Hayden on 30th August 1887 in Sinnotts Lane but the Mother is a Murphy not a Kehoe.
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shorts
hey many thanks for the great work you have put in on this, realise this is actually FranJ 's post and it does look like we are chasing the same parts of the family which is cool
the peter french and catherine murphy is a new link for me, i had him marrying a catherine but didnt have any surname.
hope to hear from FranJ soon
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ok
maybe that answers the question that stasia is noted as step daughter in the 1901 census record (the dob matches)
i then have the Thomas Hayden b. 1871 married Sarah xxxxx b. 1876 which I am then matching to the sarah kehoe b. 29/02/1876 not on 1901 census but born to a Martin Kehoe b. 1847 Saunderscourt married Mary Kehoe (Clancy) b.1855
hadnt realised how useful this forum was going to be, yippee
Quote:
possible birth for 'Stasia' :
Name: Anastasia Hayden
Registration district: Wexford
Event type: Birth
Quarter and year: Jul-Sep 1887
Volume: 4 / Page: 736
not sure about how the ages, and various relationship fit together ... Thomas is 30 in 1901, yet has an 11 year old grand-daughter?
This Anastasia Hayden was born to a Thomas Hayden on 30th August 1887 in Sinnotts Lane but the Mother is a Murphy not a Kehoe.
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I had also pulled out a poss
death cert for peter french cert 1932 age 77 vol4 pg511 fhl 101739
and
Catherine poss death cert 1929 age 68 vol4 pg502 fhl 101737
but not sure if that would put peter french still in ireland (having returned from Birkenhead) or still in birkenhead
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not sure if you already have this ....a possible Hayden/Kehoe marriage from the BMD Index
name: Thomas Hayden
registration district: Wexford
event type: Marriage
Quarter and year: Jan-Mar 1891
Volume : 4 / Page : 588
The same references appear for a Sarah Kehoe.
see : Ordering Certs from GRO Roscommon (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,599538.0.html)
Details included on a Marriage Cert (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,433042.0.html)
Shane
Thomas Hayden married Sarah Kehoe on 25 January 1891 in Bride St church. Looks like the Hayden's originated from the historic town of Ferns.
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This is the baptisim record for Ellen Hayden born 10 December 1884, one of the other step children stated in the 1901 census. So it would appear that Thomas Hayden's first wife, Mary Ann Murphy possible died some time between 30th August 1887 (birth of the last step child Anastasia) and 25 January 1891 when Thomas married again to Sarah Kehoe.
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shorts :D
many thanks again that really does pull things together for me and i guess FranJ too
im now wondering if the catherine murphy wife of Peter French b. 1856 married in 1880 is related to the mary ann murphy (first wife of thomas hayden)
all my original chart was built up from just the census records but the marriage and baptism records really cement things together
homerj
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ah ha yes that one is a mistery,
our guess at the moment is that they use the term grand daughter loosely and she's a relative of sorts.
...not sure about how the ages, and various relationship fit together ... Thomas is 30 in 1901, yet has an 11 year old grand-daughter?
Ellen Fitzgerald was born on 19 June 1889. Her Mother was a Mary A Kehoe, more than likely a sister of Sarah Kehoe making Ellen a Niece rather than a Grand Daughter.
(Ellen’s Bride St church Baptism record also provides her subsequent marriage details, marrying twice, in 1910 & 1916.)
Ellen’s father James Fitzgerald is possibly here in the 1901 census – the only viable entry within Wexford Town.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai001299382/
He’s described as a Widower which may explain why Ellen was living with her Aunt Sarah in 1901.
By 1911 James was now living in the household of a Francis Kehoe and his relationship is described as a ‘half brother in law’.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai003617123/
This would suggest that Francis Kehoe was a Brother to Mary & of course Sarah too.
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Ellen Fitzgerald's Cousin Mary Hayden (aged 9 in the 1901 census) was a witness to her marriage on 16 October 1910.
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Just to finish up on Ellen, she re-married on 26 June 1916. Her Father James was now living in Gretna Green (Scotland) !!
Her witness this time was Anastasia French - not sure re her place of residence.
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hi again
your searching is pretty cool
certainly looks good to explain the relationships of the younger family members.
I now have another strand to follow in Gretna Green :-)
The Anastasia French mentioned as witness to Ellen's marriage is most likely my grand mother who from 1911 census shows living at 33 Fishers Row Wexford age 25 and 23 living with uncle John Murphy 48 journeyman shoemaker. will see if I can find out what the location name is as per the item you have found but we know that Anastasia when married lived in a house in Batt Street before they eventually moved to Liverpool late 1938 but no idea of location in wexford between 1911 and 1938
have a great Christmas
homerj
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t
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The Anastasia French mentioned as witness to Ellen's marriage is most likely my grand mother who from 1911 census shows living at 33 Fishers Row Wexford age 25 and 23 living with uncle John Murphy 48 journeyman shoemaker. will see if I can find out what the location name is as per the item you have found but we know that Anastasia when married lived in a house in Batt Street before they eventually moved to Liverpool late 1938 but no idea of location in wexford between 1911 and 1938
Anastasia Hayden married John French on 2 February 1908 per the Rowe St church parish register.
All the evidence seems to point to you & Fran J being 2nd Cousins twice over in that you share two Great Grandfathers - Peter French & Thomas Hayden.
(Fran J hasn't been back on-line since her initial post)
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yeah its pretty amazing that she should be looking for same surnames and then looks like we are 2nd cousins - i have messaged FranJ in the hope they log back (I have been checking their logon profile :-))
but i cant send her any more as she can't receive pm's since she only made one post and obviously her email is not disclosed
I have found John and Anastasia's grave too and recently connected up with another cousin from them (my dad's brother's daughter) so now have a pretty decent chart put together on all this, mostly done from census records. Certainly your posts and searches have really jelled stuff together nicely, like this last one which details the church. I have my dads (their son) birth cert for when then moved from ireland to the Wirral.
I have photos of them too.
They both died over here on the Wirral so have all the other details
Its also that our grandmothers are sisters too anastasia and sarah.
Me thinks we need a visit to ireland.
many thanks again, hopefully we can get FranJ on line soon to complete the picture.
have a great Christmas
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Sorry to butt in here as you seem to be on such a roll (excellent work by 'shorts' .... I might have to call on you for help with my Wexford family ;)), but I am wondering if FranJ, being a brand new member, may not have enabled notifications of replies, so perhaps she is unaware that there have been so many replies here, and that a 2nd cousin has found her.
I hope she returns soon - I'm sure she will be thrilled with all the discoveries.
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Shorts - not expecting you to do all the work for me by any means, you have done so much already for myself and FranJ
I hope to get some done myself but baptism and marriage entries are really valuable
I have a fairly substantial chart now, the next part I need to investigate is my fathers side
sons/daughters of Peter French b. 1856 married Catherine Murphy details as per 1901 census plus we now know he moved to Birkenhead by 1916 which im now looking at in more detail.
I have nearly all I need on son John (being my grandfather having moved to Merseyside 1938) and Martin from your previous posts.
the outstanding ones are
Bridie b. 1883 had moved out of family home 35 fishers row by 1911
Jane b. 1888 had moved out of family home 35 fishers row by 1911
Thomas b. 1890 had moved out of family home 35 fishers row by 1911
Peter b. 1892 still in family home 1911
George b. 1897 still in family home 1911
dates of birth assumed from census records
thanks homerj
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No Problem - but it won't be until the Xmas break that I'll be able to re-visit my notes etc.
I know I've seen various other French & Hayden records which may help you firm up on dates.
My Mother lived next door to a French (or possibly Ffrench) family in Fisher's Row in the 1940's - not sure which one so I'll find out from her in due course.
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I have a fairly substantial chart now, the next part I need to investigate is my fathers side
sons/daughters of Peter French b. 1856 married Catherine Murphy details as per 1901 census plus we now know he moved to Birkenhead by 1916 which im now looking at in more detail.
I have nearly all I need on son John (being my grandfather having moved to Merseyside 1938) and Martin from your previous posts.
the outstanding ones are
Bridie b. 1883 had moved out of family home 35 fishers row by 1911
Jane b. 1888 had moved out of family home 35 fishers row by 1911
Thomas b. 1890 had moved out of family home 35 fishers row by 1911
Peter b. 1892 still in family home 1911
George b. 1897 still in family home 1911
dates of birth assumed from census records
I’ll post what I’ve found on the French family in chronological order.
Below is the Wexford Town parish register entry for the marriage of Peter French to Catherine Murphy. Unfortunately it doesn’t state any fathers’ names or places of residence but it at least confirms their date of marriage, November 5th 1879.
The name Mary Murphy, one of the witnesses, crops up as a sponsor on some later baptism entries so she’s probably a relative of Catherine’s, most likely a sister.
Their first child, Mary Jane French, was born on 15 April 1880. A sponsor was Mary J French, likely to have been a sister of Peter.
On the 14 October 1881 a child given the name ‘Mary Jane’ French was born. This would seem to imply that the Mary Jane French born in 1880 had died in infancy. (the subsequent 1911 census states that Peter & Catherine/Kate had only 8 of 11 children stilll living so this looks like one of the three)
A ‘Sponsor’ was Mary Murphy who could well be the same person as the witness at Peter & Kate’s wedding.
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I couldn't find a baptism record for Bridie French born approx 1883.
John French was born in England (in Dover per the 1901 census) and there is a UK birth registration in the district of Dover for a 'John Thomas French' in Q3 1885.
Jane French was born at Byrnes Lane on 18 September 1887 and Baptised on the 20th. It also confirms the details of her later marriage in 1909.
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Thomas French was born on 25 November 1989
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George French was born on 19 December 1896.
Patrick Joseph French was born on 18 October 1901. He's not in the 1911 census so it can be assumed that he was another of the three children no longer alive by 1911.
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Moving onto the marriages.
Mary Jane French (b1881) married Nicholas Hynes on 7 Jan 1906. (Prior to her marriage it looks like Mary lived away from Wexford as this appears to be her 1901 census record)
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Dalkey/Barnhill_Road__Part_of_/1316899/
In the 1911 census they were living in Fishers Row.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Wexford/Wexford_No__2_Urban/Fishers_Row/697371/
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Jane French (b1887) married William Walsh on 17 January 1909.
This looks like their 1911 census record.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Wexford/Rathaspick/Forth_Commons/692943/
By 1916 they to were living in Byrnes Lane as evidenced by the details I posted earlier for the marriage of Martin French to Sarah Hayden.
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The Anastasia French mentioned as witness to Ellen's marriage is most likely my grand mother who from 1911 census shows living at 33 Fishers Row Wexford age 25 and 23 living with uncle John Murphy 48 journeyman shoemaker.
will see if I can find out what the location name is as per the item you have found but we know that Anastasia when married lived in a house in Batt Street before they eventually moved to Liverpool late 1938 but no idea of location in wexford between 1911 and 1938
[/quote
There is a list of the majority of Wexford Town ratepayers in an October 1936 edition of the Wexford People. There is no French family listed under Batt Street but there are two heads of household living in other streets by the name of 'J French' which could be your John French - see below.
There is also a P French in Byrnes Lane. My Mother lived next door to Peter French and his family in the 1940's. She recalls his children as follows:
Michael
Walter
Georgie - moved to Antelope Rd, Maudlintown
Stanley - moved to Saltee Ave
Francis (Franny) - killed in a motorbike accident in the Folly in the 1950's
Catherine
Bridie
Nelli
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wow
Just absorbing all your good work here, and building up my chart, pretty amazing.
To clarify my earlier assumption that John and Anastasia lived in Batt Street before moving to Wirral Merseyside, it was just that Batt St was entered on my dad's birth cert when he was born 1924 so they must have moved around between then and when they eventually came to mainland UK.
Also intriguing why John French seems to have been born in Dover they must have travelled back and forth Ireland UK during those early years.
I hadn't looked closely enough at the hand written original census record for 1901, the reproduced version has his birth place as Down (which I assumed was short hand for somewhere else in Ireland) but looking at the hand written census record it is clearly Dover.
loving this, its really good piecing all the bits together.
have also pulled out 1901 census details for nicholas hynes.
again nice work Shorts and especially that your mother new other parts of the family.
all this is going on and we still haven't heard from Fran J :'( - lots for them to catch up on when they do eventually log back on.
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firstly I would like to say sorry for not logging back in before now, but ill health and family matters have been a priority,
now I would like to thank you for finding the information I was looking for regarding my Grandfather and Grandmother, yes the Sarah Hayden and Martin French you found are definitely my Grandparents, thank you for all the work you have put in on this, it has made my day to know all what I know now about my family, and its nice to have the addresses where they lived, I know I still have family in Wexford now maybe I can find them too, thank you once again I would never have found this information without you
Kindest Regards Fran J
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Yes thankyou, this is my Grandmother Mary Jane French that I'm looking for. I know she married Nicholas Hynes and that they moved to Birkenhead at some point. There are lots of details that I don't know but this website seems fab and things are becoming clearer already and I've only just found it. I know she had brothers and sisters and when I can get my head around all the information and start putting it all together it'll just be amazing and something to leave for my children and grandchildren.
Thanks to all who have contributed so far and got me started.
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Really great to see that this thread (now close to 2years old) is still connecting our family/families together.
I can now hopefully fill in some more detail on my great Aunts and their family.
still finding it hard to locate possible living relatives in Wexford.
homer
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Really great to see that this thread (now close to 2years old) is still connecting our family/families together. I can now hopefully fill in some more detail on my great Aunts and their family.
still finding it hard to locate possible living relatives in Wexford.
homer
There's an oibituary in the Wexford paper this week for a Pascal Hayden (aged 70), son of the late John & Josephine Hayden. He has a surviving brother and 4 sisters. There were'nt that many Hayden's in Wexford Town so they could be decendants of the John Hayden, son of Thomas & Sarah Hayden, who was aged 4 in the 1911 census.
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thanks for the tip.
just searched for it and found the full details.
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Not sure if this is any help to you but my Great Grand Uncle Simon Nicholas Moore of Enniscorthy Co. Wexford Married Mary Margaret French in 1933 (not 100% on the the year of Marriage)
Alan
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I keep looking at your postings and think to myself just because we have so many matching surnames that it's all co-incidence but the more i look the more I wonder. The one name I haven't seen it your postings is the name Brennan, if it was there then it would tie up things. I have names French from Clonakilty Cork, goes way back in time mainly related to religious institutions but I've come to a dead end with Francis Alan French 1905–1943. I have both Jane Murphy's from Wexford(her daughter Anastasia Brennan 1887– Dec 1887 • Carlow, Ireland) and Kehoe's from Wexford and also the name Hughes (Wicklow) Does any of the other register with you. Regards Jackie.
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"Houses of Wexford" with thanks to David Rowe & Eithne Scallan
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History; Ballytor(e)y Castle, which is incorporated into the house, was built by the French family about 1200. It remained the principle seat of this influential family, also at nearby Rathshelane Castle and with another branch at Bannow as well as Harpoonstown. The noted Nicholas French, Bishop of Ferns, was born at Ballytory in 1604 and died in exile in Ghent.
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