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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Denbighshire => Topic started by: Stormybay on Sunday 02 December 12 19:30 GMT (UK)
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Hello
On Christmas Day 1866, my 2x great grandmother was married at the Parish Chapel in Rhosllanerchrugog.
In June, I visited Rhosllanerchrugog, and driving up a big hill and then turning left onto what I think was Church Street, across from a pub called the Black Lion, I found a gate that I thought led to the chapel. I had been sent a photo of that gate by someone via an ancestry site but the gate this year was surrounded by fencing and construction equipment - it looked as though the church had been pulled down and that all remained was the graveyard.
Because Margaret's family lived in Cefn Bychn, I had always wondered why she had married so far away from home and now I am thinking that she may have been married at St Johns or another church in Cefn Mawr. Of course, I do not really understand where the boundaries are for these communities. I did find St John's in Cefn Mawr.
Can anyone help me come to a clearer understanding of what may have been the chapel I am looking for?
Thanks
Stormybay
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Rhosllanerchrugog is some four miles from Cefn Mawr where I live!Cefn Bychan otherwise known as Newbridge is an adjoining village to Cefn Mawr.I'm wondering whether the marriage could have taken place perhaps at a Chapel in Rhosymedre?Rhosymedre is again an adjoining village to Cefn Mawr.
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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Hello again Mr. Jones!
Yes, I am wondering the same thing. The record clearly shows Rhosllanerchrugog - needless to say I was captured by the interesting name and have checked and rechecked. Because it was Christmas Day and I know that Margaret was pregnant, I have thought that maybe they had to go a little further afield to find a place for the marriage.
The marriage did not last long; they parted, and he became a Mormon, remarried and was part of what I am told was the Great Mormon Trek to Utah. She was Margaret Postles (we have communicated before about her) and he was John Roberts, son of Thomas and Martha who lived in Acrefair. I have been unable to find out about the end of her life, beyond the 1871 census where she returned to live with her parents and took back her maiden name. A sad story and so I was hoping to, at least, be correct about this marriage place.
S
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I've just looked now at the North Wales BMD and the marriage in fact took place at St John's the Parish Church of Rhosllanerchrugog.You will find a photo of the Church here;
http://www.clwydfhs.org.uk/eglwysi/rhosllannerchrugog.htm
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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Thank you again, William!
I followed your reference. The picture you sent me to is, in fact, the one that I had. So that I have the correct photo is a relief but I did not actually visit it in person. I see that it closed in 2004. Can you tell me if it is the one behind the stone gate on Church Street in Rhosllanerchrugog across from the Black Lion pub, then? I have just done another tour on Google maps. That is what I was looking for when I was there...but I never found it and so, I guess it has been demolished. And, if that is correct, then she did go a fair distance in 1866 to get to Rhosllanerchrugog!
I think that part of my confusion comes from the fact that I found St John's Church in Rhosymedre on Church Street there and I was not thinking that there were two churches named St John's. Did not have a computer available and so was trying to work from notes I had made, most of which proved inadequate! Some of my people are buried in St John's churchyard in Rhosymedre.
If I can impose on your further....you said you had the BMD records. Could you check sometime to see if you can find a death for Margaret Postle or Possel?
Thank you so much
S
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...sorry, I just realized that I can access the BMD for North Wales - although I have not been successful, it is something I should be able to manage myself!
S
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Just to make sure;Are we talking about the Margaret Elizabeth Postles born in 1844?
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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Yes, Margaret, daughter of James Richard Postle(s) and Mary Richards. He was a collier.
I posted earlier chats in which I was seeking to find out if she did have a second daughter, Alice, (1868 - 1881). Alice appears with Martha Griffeths Roberts and her three sons in Acrefair in 1871. In that census, Margaret is with her parents and Eunice, my gt grandmother, is with them and they are all called Postles, not Roberts. They live in Cefn Bychn by Bell Vue (cottage?) near the Jolly and the next entry is Newbridge. Then Margaret disappears.... In 1881, Eunice is working as a servant at Bell Vue cottage in Cefn Bychn for the Jones family (your Jones connection?)
I am still grappling with the place names but am getting clearer.
Eunice then marries Edwin Edwards of Cefn Mawr, born at New Hall Farm...etc. etc. She is named after her aunt Eunice Postles who married Thomas Richard Parry and there is something about her selling milk on the High Street in Cefn Mawr.
I get the sense that it is almost possible to reconstruct the villages. It is SO GOOD to know that there are folk still there who are guardians of the past. Thank you!!!
But my basic quest just now is what happened to Margaret Elizabeth Postles Roberts after her life fell apart.
S
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Though the Tree does not give much detail,there is one on Ancestry which states Margaret died in the Wrexham area in 1890.Have you any further info about the Emma given as a Grand-Daughter in 1871?
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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Hello again William,
The tree which you mention on Ancestry is probably mine - or, at least the information is what I put there as I was trying to find out where she went. It was only a guess as I have no documentation to support it. I did that a few years ago hoping that it would lead to something further, but it has not. it is just that there was a Margaret Roberts who died in Oswestry in 1890.... I made my tree private after a couple of poachers latched onto it and copied everything I had, so that information may also be on one of those trees. Currently I have removed that information from my tree as it has not been verified.
I have found no further marriages for Margaret Postles or Possels, no deaths, etc. The name Roberts is too common to be able to be sure of anything unless I order the certificates and that may be what I have to do next despite the guesswork and expense. I have also had little luck finding out if Alice Roberts, born 1868, and living with Martha and her sons in Acrefair was Margaret's second daughter. It seems that she may have died in 1881, but by that time John Roberts had remarried and was starting a second family. I spent some time at the Clwyd FHS trying to sort that out and it came to nothing. There are at least four Alice Roberts born in 1868 - so, perhaps I will work on narrowing that down to see if I can find the right one.
...but, the Chapel in Rhosllanerchrugog has been demolished, correct?
S
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...did not deal with your question about Emma, granddaughter 1871. They called her ENNIE - but her full name was Eunice. That is my gt grandmother, Eunice, on the 1871 census; she was four years old. It is written on the census as Emma - I think the person who made the entry on the census may have made an error as there is another little girl down the street called Emma as well.
S
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Were Eunice and Alice daughters of John Roberts?
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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I do have Eunice's birth certificate and she is identified as Eunice Roberts, daughter of John Roberts and Margaret, formerly Postle. She was born in April 1867.
I have only heard about Alice from the Utah descendents of John Roberts who say that she was his daughter and that she was living with him in 1871 but I have no proof of that - no birth certificate and the census shows her as a grand-daughter of Martha Griffeths Roberts but there were other brothers living there who could also have been her father. There wasn't a whisper about her or the Roberts family in our family. Eunice's daughters knew nothing of her Roberts family history. She called herself Eunice Postles, daughter of James Richard and Mary Postles who were her grandparents.
S
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Just to have the full background to the family then,John Roberts was the son of Martha of Corwen?
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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Hi There
St. John's Parish Church on Church Street, Rhossllanerchrugog is still standing. Due to dwindling congregations and the need to find £300,000 for repairs to the fabric of the church St. John’s, which was the parish church, had to close in 2003.
You can find pictures and more info on my own website. http://www.graham-lloyd.com/rhos/st_johns_parish_church_rhos
Hope this is of help.
Graham
www.graham-lloyd.com
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In 1892 a James R Postle was named as the leader of the Ruabon Primitive Methodist Choir,
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It has been a while since I have checked this site as I have been travelling and buried in other things. However, a sincere thank you to those who have persisted.
First of all, yes, John Roberts was the son of Martha born in Corwen. I believe her name was Griffeths.
Thank you so much for the photos of St John's Church in Rhos. I could not see a building through those gates, but definitely saw that the churchyard is still there. I am happy to see the photos.
And, finally, I do believe that the James Richard Postles who led the Methodist Choir was a grandson (b. 1861) of James Richard Postles, 1810, who was my 3x gt grandfather.
So, thank you for all of those responses. I am still in search of Alice - her birth and death. It seems her life was a very sad one.
S
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Did you say you were looking for a Mary Richards... bit of a long shot, but i have just moved into a very old house in Rhos ans found lots of papers regarding the house. it used to belong to a Mary Richards and was bought by her son John in 1983. Could she be yours?
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Hi Wonkywitch
I have a lot of research on the Richards Family from Cefnmar the youngest Mary I have was born 25/2/1862. Hoe far back does the information Go?
jammieboy