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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: Yonks Ago on Friday 07 December 12 00:50 GMT (UK)
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Hello all,
I have for some time been trying to find family for Thomas EVANS bc 1840.
He is not related to me but "my" Thomas EVANS worked for my Grandparents in Carnarvon Western Australia.
If I'm on the right track Thomas was from Lancashire and had a brother John who was noted as next of kin [ brother..address Elizabeth St Manchester ] both John and Thomas were Cotton Spinners.
Thomas was convicted 1864 for 'setting fire to a hay stack'.transported 1866 age 27..single from Portland.
many thanks
Yonks Ago
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I can see Thomas Evans transported on the Belgravia arrived W.A 4th 1866. Sentenced to 8 years for setting fire to haystack.
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Lyn22,
Yes that's him..just would love to find his family.
thank you
Yonks Ago
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Note that there were two men by the name of Thomas Evans transported on the Belgravia arriving WA 1866! One convicted at Middlesex General Sessions Clerkenwell, sentenced to 10 years and the other, 'your' man convicted at Warwick Assizes, sentenced to 8 years.
A/try's data set: 'Australian Convict Transportation Registers - Other Fleets and Ships, 1791 - 1868' shows that Thomas Evans' trial was 5 Dec 1864 at Warwick and couples his name with another, John Tomlinson, also transported on the Belgravia.
A free search of britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk shows that there is an 855 word article, free excerpt as follows - you need to pay to read more which might be of use(!):
"Thomas Evans (27) labourer, Liverpool, and John Tomlinson (23) ???bler, Manchester, were charged on their own confession with wilfully setting fire to a to a hay stack, on the Stratford Road. On Sunday morning the prisoners gave themselves Into the custody of Police Constable Hill, stating that they had set stack on fire, and were accordingly locked up. Police-constable Archer said about half past twelve on Saturday night he saw stack fire, near The Black Horse. On going the spot he met a woman, who stated that she had seen two young men running away from the stack just before the fire discovered. The officer had since made every enquiry with view bring this woman forward witness, but had ..."
Saturday 10 December 1864 , Birmingham Journal , West Midlands, England
I can't find any mention of either Evans or Tomlinson on the Prisoners Database from Warwickshire County Record Office - as below -
http://www.warwickshire.gov.uk/Web/corporate/pages.nsf/Links/3C3BECFC9AF8FC7B80256E7E0056B9FE
But why don't you email recordoffice@warwickshire.gov.uk and ask for some advice?
And let us know what they come back with?
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Gali,
Your a Gem! :)
Thank you so much for that...now having Liverpool as a place I may now be able to track him down some more...
I have always wanted to find Old Tom's family..for him and with the help of wonderful people I may be able to do just that..
will follow your directions..thank you so much
Yonks Ago
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If he was transported 1866 aged 27 - that means he was born 1838 or 1839 ...and if he was born in Manchester there are these
only one in 1838 - on
www.lan-opc.org.uk/Search/indexp.html - none in 1839
Thomas Evans baptised 18th march 1838 at Ellenbrook Chapel,Worsley ,Lancs - parents John and Frances -occ Collier
then there is this
John Evans bap 18th aug 1844 at St Paul,Walkden ,lancs - parents John and Frances - occ Collier
IF - AND IT`S A BIG IF ...this might be your Thomas Evans parents ...see if anyone can find them in 1851 census ...
at Johns baptism in 1844 their address is
Stanney st
Walkden .......but being a Collier he may have moved around the local Colleries and may not be in Walkden 1851...but you may be lucky....
allan
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If it`s your Thomas parents
John Evans married Frances Cooke at St Mary the Virgin ,Eccles,Lancs on 31st october 1836 ....possible marriage ?
allan
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garstoneite,
Thomas and John were both Cotton Spinner's...also it was noted that John lived at Elizabeth Street Manch..
Will need to take a look at what you have sent through as well as Gali.
Wow may be getting close
Yonks Ago
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If John the dad was a Collier, he wouldn`t have wanted his sons down a mine as well ....some info on the places that John and Frances were in
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walkden
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worsley
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eccles,_Greater_Manchester
just so you can see the districts in Manchester they were in ...that`s if you think it may possibly be Thomas`s parents...a stab in the dark , but may be worth noting tham
allan
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Yonks Ago ...
Did you decide that this man was 'yours'?
http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/AUS-CONVICTS/2009-08/1250233610
If so, it seems to indicate that he was stating his denomination as 'RC' when in Freo gaol ... so might have to take that into account when/if you do get to the stage of looking for any UK birth for him or indeed a marriage for his parents.
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If he was Roman Catholic - that would probably rule out the records I have posted - but keep a note of them in case they pop up in any later research
allan
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Gali and Allan, thank you so much Yes Allan will keep all on what you have sent through.
Gali I'm almost certain that he is my "Man" by the records noting that he had a long forhead and tall and thin.
Yes will keep that in mind if I do go down that track in getting certificates but I would like to maybe find him with out [ being not my rellie ]
Yonks Ago
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By the way ... from where was the 'John Evans' next of kin and his address' Elizabeth Street, Manchester' taken?
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Gali,
From the Western Australian Convict Registers held at the State Records Office.
Yonks Ago
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So dated sometime between 1866, when he arrived, and 1873, when he was freed? Just wondering whether to start looking in 1871 census although am presuming that will have 'the curse of the common forename and surname' against us ...
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Gali,
Australia do not 'keep' census records...I do have a lot on him from 1866 to 1928 when he died. The W.A. Convict Registers note all that they have until the are freed...
Yonks Ago
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Sorry ... I meant looking for a John Evans on 1871 English census ...
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Gali,
I have been looking for John..only been looking all day long and can't see the wood for the trees I think. Will look again after as with a lot more now on him.
What would ???bler Manchester be? not knowing the U.K. i get rather lost.
Also Stratford Road where would that be?
I have sent of an e-mail to Warwickshire office.
Yonks Ago
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The free search facility on britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk does not always give the best transcription of the original article ... sadly you would need to pay to get the accurate wording ... the '?bler' bit refers to Tomlinson's profession so might not be relevant for you.
I'd guess that Stratford Road would/could be the modern A34 in the Birmingham suburb of Sparkbrook or Sparkhill ... but that would be a guess.
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Another mention from another newspaper from britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk ... this time his occupation is given as 'collier' rather than 'labourer' ... again, might be worth paying to view the full article.
Warwickshire Winter Assize
Thomas Evans, 27, collier, pleaded guilty to willfully set fire to a stack of hay, the property of Ann S?aw Birmingham, on the 4th December last - Eight Penal servitude.
Saturday 10 December 1864 , Birmingham Gazette , West Midlands, England
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Gali,
I have had a very quick look at the britishnewspaperarchives.co.uk but can't quite naviagate my way around it..can you send me a PM with directions when you have time please..also can you let me know the cost.
cheers
Yonks Ago
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If he was Roman Catholic - that would probably rule out the records I have posted - but keep a note of them in case they pop up in any later research
allan
Some Catholics (especially English or Welsh) used C of E and other Churches too .
Thomas and John were both Cotton Spinner's...also it was noted that John lived at Elizabeth Street Manch..
Will need to take a look at what you have sent through as well as Gali.
Wow may be getting close
Yonks Ago
As cotton spinners/mill workers they could have been working from the age of about 6 years old , so may have been working at the job many years and considered it their primary occupation/skill.
But
The early to mid 1860s was the height of The Lancashire Cotton Famine . Like many others , Thomas and John would probably have been desperate for work and taken any job they could get . Maybe that explains the other occupations on the census that have been posted .
link Lancashire Cotton Famine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lancashire_Cotton_Famine
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INCENDIARISM ON THE STRATFORD ROAD.
Yesterday, before the Stipendiary, at the Police Office, Thomas Evans (27), labourer, Liverpool and John Tomlinson (23) doubler, Manchester, were charged on their own confession with wilfully setting fire to a hay stack, on the Stratford Road. On Saturday morning the prisoners gave themselves into custody of Police Constable Hill stating that they had set a stack on fire and were accordingly locked up. Police Constable Archer said, about half past twelve on Saturday he saw a stack on fire, near The Black Horse. On going to the spot he met a woman who stated that she had seen two young men running away from the stack just before the fire was discovered. The officer had since made every enquiry with a view to bring this woman forward as a witness but had failed to discover her, and as her evidence is material it is of importance that she should come forward. The stack was the property of Mrs. Edkins, of the Black Horse, and was almost entirely destroyed. The prisoners pleaded guilty and stated that they were induced to commit the act through destitution. They were committed to the Assizes.
Birmingham Daily Post, December 6, 1864.
Sounds like they wanted transportation.
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BashLad,
Thank you for that, many of those who were transported were for petty crimes, Australia was only a new Colony after their time was served some were better off...I know from "my" Thomas's he was kind of part of the family.
Also a point that a lot don't know is that convicts paid their own way to the Colonies, also there were more "free settlers" than convicts.
Yonks Ago
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...a point that a lot don't know is that convicts paid their own way to the Colonies...
Not sure that I understand this - what is the evidence for it?
...also there were more "free settlers" than convicts.
Only after a certain point ;)
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PrueM,
I do have some where the full numbers of Convicts and Free Settlers..but at the moment can't put my hands on it..
During the late 18th and 19th centuries, large numbers of convicts were transported to the various Australian penal colonies by the British government. One of the primary reasons for the British settlement of Australia was the establishment of a penal colony to alleviate pressure on their overburdened correctional facilities. Over the 80 years more than 165,000 convicts were transported to Australia.
The number of convicts pales in comparison to the immigrants who arrived in Australia as Free Settlers in the 1851–1871 gold rush. In 1852 alone, 370,000 immigrants arrived in Australia. By 1871 the total population had nearly quadrupled from 430,000 to 1.7 million people.[2] The last convicts to be transported to Australia arrived in Western Australia in 1868.
Yonks Ago
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Hi there again Yonks :) A "doubler" (Tomlinson) was a type of Cotton Spinner . As Bashlad says , they were probably so destitute (their plea) that they actually "wanted transportation" (did you see my above post re Lancashire Cotton Famine) . How could convicts like that have "paid their own way" ? (like Prue , i don't understand that comment either) . They were convicted of "Arson", a serious crime , especially at a time of riot and civil unrest . In the Court Records here (at Warwick) it does not say they were sentenced to be "transported" . It just says "sentence 8 years " . I wonder at what point it was decided that Evans and Tomlinson should be transported and why ?
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I'm not sure how 'fixed' their 'professions' were either ... on the attached Tomlinson is listed as a groom. If destitution was their plea then no doubt they would take whatever work came along.
http://members.iinet.net.au/~perthdps/convicts/conwad39.htm
Looks as if Evans was held in Portland before transportation, and Tomlinson in Portsmouth:
http://wags.org.au/c/wags/pub/stories/documents/connews/con_belgravia.pdf
A bit of background on Tomlinson, his prisoner number was 9014 which brings up the following results from the WA police gazette.
http://www.slwa.wa.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0006/14379/188205_m.pdf
http://www.slwa.wa.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0020/14384/188206_m.pdf
http://www.slwa.wa.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0004/14386/188211_m.pdf
http://www.slwa.wa.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0019/14374/188303_m.pdf
http://www.slwa.wa.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0005/14378/188304_m.pdf
http://www.slwa.wa.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0017/14345/188506_m.pdf
http://www.slwa.wa.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0012/14340/188512_m.pdf
http://www.slwa.wa.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0011/14402/188802_m.pdf
A few words via Trove marking Thomas Evans' death:
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/74906828?searchTerm=thomas%20evans&searchLimits=l-decade=192|||l-year=1928|||l-month=07
Also, if you search using his nickname, Clumper, via Trove there are some nice anecdotes ... you can almost detect his accent! NB: one or two anecdotes not quite so PC ...
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/38907448?searchTerm=clumper&searchLimits=
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/37826218?searchTerm=clumper&searchLimits=
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/38389539?searchTerm=clumper&searchLimits=
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/38935524?searchTerm=clumper&searchLimits=
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/38395375?searchTerm=clumper&searchLimits=
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/38389042?searchTerm=clumper&searchLimits=
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/38388439?searchTerm=clumper&searchLimits=
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Gali,
BINGO!! ...Clumper was the family name..it came from Old Tom saying I'll clump ya..
THANK YOU SO MUCH..looks like not much getting done here the next day or so..
Yonks8
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With the mention of Mrs Edkins (in the newspaper article posted by BashLad) connected to the 'Black Horse Inn' it's possible to confirm that the incident which led to transportation did take place in Sparkbrook ...
From: http://www.midlandspubs.co.uk/breweries/birmingham.htm
Edkins-and-Guy
The Black Horse in Sparkbrook was the home of Edkins and Guy, common brewers for the area for much of the 19th century and for the early part of the 20th century. One of the earliest references to the family who owned this brewery is that of Ann Edkins. She appeared in the 1859 Ratebook for Aston where it lists a Malthouse and Kiln in the Manor of Bordesley. The original Black Horse was set back from the Stratford Road whereas the replacement building, constructed in 1880, is right on the corner of Stratford Road and Kyotts Lake Road. In the 1861 census Ann Edkins is recorded as a 65 year-old widow. Hailing from Berkswell, Warwickshire, she was listed as the Licensed Victualler of the Black Horse. 22 year-old son David Edkins worked as a brewer, whilst 33 year-old Ann M. Guy was listed as a barmaid. Ann was also born in Berkswell but David was a Brummie. This helps to trace the movements of Ann Edkins. She employed 50 year-old William Wheatcroft as a labourer. He was born in the village of Rowington. Solihull born Thomas Powers was engaged as an ostler, delivering the beers produced behind the pub to other boozers in the area. William Edkins lived at No.73 Stratford Road. Born in Tamworth in 1831, he was listed as a Brewery Agent. He had clearly moved into his own property to live with his 32 year-old wife Sarah but continued to work for the family business. As an agent, it was his role to sell the beer into other public houses in the Birmingham area. The family rebuilt The Black Horse in 1880. The 1891 Ratebook for Aston lists a Licensed Public House, Brewery, Yard and Premises. By 1906 David Edkins and Mary Ann Guy were listed as occupiers and owners. The ownership of the pub remained for many years with the Guy family who resided at The Sycamores, Stratford Road, Shirley. The Black Horse later became an Atkinson's pub.
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Have you had a stab at finding Thomas on the English censuses.....
I can't help but notice ;) that on the 1861 there's a Thomas Evans born abt 1836 in Manchester, working as a cotton spinner boarding at 48 Loom St, Ancoats. Which is only a mile or two from the Elizabeth St at Cheetham Hill...
The other Thomas Evanses on the 1861 living in manchester don't seem t be working in the cotton industry. Hardly a smoking gun but... tempting.
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BashLad,
I had printed that census of Thomas EVANS..great to have you tell me that the both address are close by..not knowing the U.K. it helps with input from those that know.
I'm so grateful for all the help of you good kind people..going to now sit and work through all that has been sent.
I'm over the moon..
Thank you one and All.
Yonks Ago
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Thanks to all.
Yes..re the tip off!! I have posted before on this and its been helpful thank you, and that Loom St is not far from Elizabeth Street..but still not confirming for me...as I said I have looked at and have copies of all Thomas's and John's Evan's in the 1861 census..plus looked at census after Thomas came to Australia but none are linking John to Thomas. As you can guess..Evans is a common surname. I'm thinking poor Old Tom's research is at a stop, I was hoping that someone had an idea.. other than census
Yonks